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U.F.O.
May 4, 2007, 03:17 PM
My Dad recently had to go full-time O2 due to a lung problem. What are the dangers of his shooting pistols or skeet while using portable, liquid oxygen with a nose clip? Thx.

U.F.O.

Groundhog
May 4, 2007, 04:11 PM
Now THIS is a thread I want to watch!

JR47
May 4, 2007, 04:11 PM
The tank is the largest danger. Should something penetrate the tank, the resulting explosion would be hard on anyone nearby. Short of shooting it, ot the tank valve, though, there isn't much going to happen to them.

The tubing is plastic, and cutting it would allow a low volume leak, probably less than 2 liters/minute to escape into the surrounding air.

For outdoor shooting, there should be little effect caused by having the O2 set-up along. It will have to be kept well back from the line, for safety. Check with your range, as they may have safety concerns.

Oxygen won't exactly burn. It WILL, however, allow anything combustible to burn at a rate determined by the amount of oxygen present. More )2, faster burn. This phenomena killed several astronauts in a training accident in the 1960s.:o

Tom2
May 4, 2007, 04:12 PM
I would think it would be safe on an outdoor range? At least with a rifle where the hot gasses are quite aways from the firer. Revolvers shoot hot gases out the sides of the cylinder gap as well as the muzzle. Maybe a 22 rifle would be safest, as there is little hot gas or sparks coming out the muzzle. This is theoretical, I have never encountered anyone using it at a range. The only other danger I can think of is an accidental discharge at the tank! A 22 might just dent it. Small shotgun pellets would probably not puncture it I would think. The main drawback I can think of is if it is cumbersome to the shooting actions, especially shotgun sports where you are swinging the gun.

BillCA
May 4, 2007, 04:54 PM
FIRST: Talk to the oxygen supply company. Determine what kind of danger there is from ignition sources. How much flame or burning material might be required to cause ignition. Because O2 is a "hazmat" material in shipping, they will probably know.

The danger isn't about the tank blowing up. The real danger, as I see it, is that a case rupture could send burning powder or debris back towards Dad's face. Having an O2 supply might intensify the heat of the debris and/or make it burn longer.

If Dad has lung problems and is on O2, you DO NOT want to take him to an indoor range. Particulate matter is higher in indoor ranges, even with ventilation.

Hoses should be routed over his shoulder and behind him, external to clothing so it can be removed/replaced if punctured or any problem occurs. Bring a spare bottle set for him in the event of any malfunction or emergency.

Travismaine
May 4, 2007, 05:12 PM
There is no danger of having /using a oxygen while shooting. I know a few old timers that come to our military shoots with them our range boss is a EMT and one of our senior club members owns the local medical supply.

Bali
May 4, 2007, 07:05 PM
My grandfather uses o2 constantly. He's beginning to lose his presence of mind. He has good days and bad days. On his good days he loves for me to take him shooting. I'm lucky that my job is flexible enough that when he has good days I can just drop everything and spend it with him. (he is a WW2 vet and also a former pastor of my home church, I spend as much time with him as I possibly can as he is a wealth of wisdom among many other things!)

He says that Indoor ranges bother him. Now we only go to outdoor ranges. (god love new england weather in the spring!)

As far as the dangers... In an outdoor range there seems to be none unless you are shooting something which tends to bounce back at you (don't do that) However in an indoor range... There never seems to be enough ventilation for someone with sensitive lungs.

Just my observations

Bali

WeedWacker
May 4, 2007, 09:21 PM
If punctured the explosion would not be one of a firy demise but a shrapnel filled whirlwind as the preassure finds a weakness and rips apart and launches the tank in some random direction. only if there is a leak and a flame is introduced will the oxygen react. Not as big a reaction as hydrogen but...

JohnKSa
May 4, 2007, 11:56 PM
The tank will not rupture if punctured unless it is in very poor condition prior to being damaged, but it could turn into a missile if not restrained.

Beckerich
May 5, 2007, 06:37 AM
if some one shoots the barrel your dad will be blown up like Jaws. Dont bring one of those near live gun fire.

JR47
May 5, 2007, 06:53 AM
Jaws was a dummy in a movie. The tank WILL NOT rupture like that, producing an explosion. High pressure vessels like the oxygen tank tend to blow out a side, with what appears to be a rip in the metal. Especially since most portable oxygen tanks are aluminum today.

Oxygen is a dual Haz-Mat, for both the pressure it's stored under during transport, and the oxidizer effect of oxygen.

However, most portable oxygen sets for consumer use are set for low-flow rates, 1-2 liters per minute. They pose virtually no risk of fire. Your father will be safe enough with common safety proceedures.

We routinely saw COPD patients sitting in bed, oxygen cannula on, smoking. We, the Fire Service, were there because "they were having trouble breathing". Sometimes, it would have been more merciful if they HAD burst into flames.

blume357
May 5, 2007, 07:12 AM
sitting beside your father.... I think the folks on the range have more important things to worry about.

I would be slightly worried if it was an inside range...but not in the least outside...

but then I might stay away from blackpowder guns.

Mach II Sailor
May 5, 2007, 09:01 AM
UFO,
my wife recently was told by her Dr. to go full time O2, she has a large LOX tank in the bedroom and a small portable that we place on top of the big tank and fill it, it is a "demand" system that allows O2 to flow when breathing, according to the O2 supplier there is no danger unless there is an open flame nearby, unless the firearm is faulty there is no problem.

stevelyn
May 5, 2007, 09:50 AM
Shouldn't be a problem. O2 itself isn't flammable. It only makes things that are already burning burn faster. Considering that most O2 tanks are made of forged steel, the likelihood of it sustaining damage on a safely run range is nil.

You run a bigger risk of dropping it and breaking off the the valve turning the tank into a missile.

RsqVet
May 5, 2007, 11:16 PM
No problmes should result at the range.

Breaking an O2 tank takes some serious work, not that it can not or has not been done however we have had old, empty out of hydro tanks we have had to remove valves from prior to disposal and belive me it takes a heck of a blow.... more than I or any of us could exert with an 8 pound sledge so we ended up sawzalling the valves off.

Dave Haven
May 6, 2007, 12:51 AM
Shouldn't be a problem. O2 itself isn't flammable. It only makes things that are already burning burn faster. Considering that most O2 tanks are made of forged steel, the likelihood of it sustaining damage on a safely run range is nil.Yup.
You run a bigger risk of dropping it and breaking off the the valve turning the tank into a missile.Yeah, a runaway tank is the most serious danger.:eek:

WeedWacker
May 6, 2007, 02:52 AM
Hmmm.... seems like a slow moving large bullet theory thing coming on :D

allenomics
May 6, 2007, 10:05 AM
A friend of mine is on portable O2, 24/7. While not an expert on the issue, I feel that if you keep the tank at least 20 feet from gunfire, up to level four, your friend will have a safe, fun time. The nasal cannula puts O2 directly in the nose. There are O2 lines that are 35 feet long.

wayneinFL
May 6, 2007, 01:15 PM
Many seem concerned that an errant bullet may strike the tank. If things are that out of control at the range, shouldn't you worry they may miss the tank and hit the person wearing it?

ter
May 6, 2007, 01:16 PM
I have been on oxygen, 2½ litres standard flow, 24/7/365 since 1985.

I have shot thousands of rounds both on inside and outside ranges and, until a couple years ago, still hunted and filled the freezer each year with venison. After a move to a new state, I have not been hunting, mainly because I wasn't familiar with the facilities available or with areas that will allow one in a wheelchair to hunt. This will be corrected by next fall.

There has never been any problem nor do I envision one ever developing. In fact, I don't see why the question was ever raised.....

I am a retired Jurist, thirty-five plus years on the bench, who is totally disabled by my heart and lung conditions but am still independent and active as I was before retirement. Oxygen has never stopped me from doing anything, with the possible exception of swimming..... :)

BTW, my wife and other family members joining us, shoot quite often in a nearby National Forest facility, including high power rifles, clays with 12 ga, handguns, being 44 mag revolver, .38 Special revolver, Hi-Power 9mm, 1911s, several, in .45 acp. I know it is safe and, besides, I don't have time to worry about the oxygen or to let it control my life, other than being sure I have it flowing all the time.

ter
May 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
A friend of mine is on portable O2, 24/7. While not an expert on the issue, I feel that if you keep the tank at least 20 feet from gunfire, up to level four, your friend will have a safe, fun time. The nasal cannula puts O2 directly in the nose. There are O2 lines that are 35 feet long.

I wear a portable take either at the waste or on the table, right adjacent to the guns, either long or handgun, and have since the mid-eighties, several times a month. There is nothing to worry about. For many years, one of my best shooting buddies was a Cardio-Transplant surgeon. Possible problems regarding oxygen never even came up..... :)

freeman
May 6, 2007, 09:03 PM
i have enjoyed this thread and all the creativity of the responses. I think the original post referred to wearing an O2 tank at the range, outdoors, in open air which is comprised of.....OXYGEN......among other gasses....I dont recall a mention of the O2 wearer running through Fallujah .....I dont think there is an issue of concern here,...ive seen many old timers at the range with O2...some even wearing a small tank belt mounted...just my .02 worth

T-Bear
May 7, 2007, 12:38 AM
Ter,
hit it right on. This is my field of work, delivery o2 tank to hosp. and to houses. As for the bullet hitting the tank. The old metal ones, which should not be used in service today will send sharpnal everywhere. The alum. ones anything 357 mag and under will not penetrate a full tank, which is at 2,000psi.
If a rifle round .30 and up would to hit a tank from the side it would make a missle out of it. But it will not send sharpnel everywhere. The tank will only have 2 holes. But the insde of the tank will melt from 1/4in to paper thin alum. 2,000psi of O2 will burn up just like that and create alot of heat.
if you guys think tarnite is fun and loud, there are other things to shoot at while at safe distances

Rickstir
May 7, 2007, 12:28 PM
I dropped a small cylinder from an amgulance one time, broke the regualtor off, went screaming like a WWII torpedo, across the street in knocked out a cement block in a foundation. I had just filled it.

ter
May 7, 2007, 01:07 PM
I think that the bottom line is still "good common sense".

Having a tank in it's case and strapped at the waste, or hanging on the shoulder, or, finally, sitting on the table with you, it is not going to be a target and it is going to be no more dangerous than having one's wife's purse sitting there !!!!!! :)

Accidents like dropping a tank or having one fall over or roll in the trunk of the car can result in the loss of air, or the same result as Rockstir mentioned.

These ARE NOT HAZARDS of the user shooting any type gun......

Groundhog
May 7, 2007, 01:41 PM
Curious question. Earlier today there were a few, how should I characterize them, grumpy? posts on this thread toward the end here. I notice now that they are gone. Do the moderators just delete posts from time to time?