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View Full Version : 870 bayonet......


KALIFORNIST
April 23, 2007, 01:00 AM
I have read many posts on mounting lugs on 870s and most of the time the replies are "buy a 590" or "they are not really needed".Well I have 3 reasons why I think its a good idea.1.It looks really cool and I like cool looking guns.2.bayonets dont jam or run out of ammo(good for zombies).3.The real reason is I think it may aid in weapon retention.18 inch barrel poking around a corner is alot to grab on to but not with a m7 bayonet sticking off the front.even if someone were to grab the barrel it would be pretty easy to twist around and stab.From my research I have learned of the marine mount that is rare and goes for 200 dollars easily on ebay.I also read that the step down on the front of a standard 6 round 870 was originaly designed for a bayonet.I have ordered a surplus m7 and one of those bolt on bayo lug adaptors for a donor lug.has anyone just welded a lug onto their gun?I know this isnt the most sturdy way to do this but would like to have the option.

Doggieman
April 23, 2007, 04:04 AM
never heard of a bayo on a shotgun but if you do it post pics

RsqVet
April 23, 2007, 04:08 AM
Well unless you are a very acomplished tig welder and plan to re-finish the gun I'd shy away from welding on the barrel of a shot gun, silver sodier would be a relitivly high strength way to attach it but would still require refinishing --- is is a common method used by gunsmiths for various work and you could get one to do it for you... strength will just depend on gettign enough contact area between the lug and barrel

Can't argue in teh looks department though to me unless one is talking a winchester 97 military gun the bayonet on a shot gun simply does nothign for me.

As to weapon retention your line of thinking might be a little flawed there as the primary problem with long arms in close quarters is an agressor has a leverage advantage over you, and cna effectivly work the weapon out of your hands while keeping the muzzle away from themselve. Bayonet or not one could do this, though personally unless your muzzle is pointing in an unsafe direction I think lighting off a round probibly has the biggest impact on a muzzle graber even if the muzzle is not pointed at them... kind of like a flash bang. Frankly a bayonet just makes for a longer lever that could be grabed. Remember the folks you may be dealing with migh be immune to minor pain such as that caused by being cut on the hand by grabbing your bayonet.

bcarver
April 23, 2007, 08:26 AM
Gee.. Kali.
Do some research on zombies. They just about have to be shot in the head and with a large caliber. I would suggest a .41 mag as a minimum. I don't even think the .45 ACP has enough energy. The only thing you could possibly do with a bayonet is chop off their heads.

Slideman
April 23, 2007, 11:35 AM
My Mossberg 590 Special Purpose came with the lug, and I have the bayonette ... I just don't know what for.

The heavy, parkerized, short barrel, large magazine, industrial-strength features I understand. I just haven't come up with the scenereo wherein I mount a bayonett. I suppose it does announce that it isn't for duck hunting ... and is of military heratige. I dunno, but it fits in nicely by my Garand, AR15, AR10 and K31.

KALIFORNIST
April 23, 2007, 01:37 PM
The mount would be attached to the mag tube not the barrel.maybe even the mag clamp if the measurements will work.Didnt say it would work against zombies but if I can get just one more in the face with the bayonet after I ran outa ammo I could die/join the zombies knowing I gave it my all.I still think its good for weapon retention.Any thoughts on how this?I just cant see a way for someone to grab the shotty by the front and wrestle me for it with a bayo.

williamd
April 23, 2007, 02:03 PM
You'd want a wooden version in case of witches and warlocks!!!:eek:

Dfariswheel
April 23, 2007, 04:04 PM
If you must..........

The original military development of the Remington 870 used the front of the factory magazine extension as a bayonet mount.

The latch part was welded to the underside of the factory extension clamp.
This is why the factory extension tube has a groove in it.
The barrel clamp screw interlocks with the groove and prevents the clamp, from shifting on the barrel under recoil.
It also, positions the bayonet latch and prevents the clamp and latch from shifting.

All you'd need to do is buy a gun with a 20" barrel and a factory magazine extension kit.
The 20" extension is the only one that positions the groove and clamp in the right place for the bayonet, so you can't use an 18" barreled gun.

All you'd have to do is make a latch lug or cut a latch lug off an M14 flash hider or M16 front sight base, depending on which bayonet you want to use the M6 or M 7, and weld it to the bottom of the factory clamp.

Note that this was found to be a rather weak setup, and it's easy to tear up the clamp and/or the extension tube if the bayonet is actually used.
This is why the military designed and built the special shroud/extension unit with the bayonet mount.

There is a man on the AR15 forum that has seriously discussed making an updated Marine type extension with the bayonet latch, and went so far as to design one, but I've heard nothing more about it for a month or so.

So, if you have a 20" 870 and a factory extension, the easiest method is to weld an M14 or M16 latch to the bottom of a factory extension clamp.

KALIFORNIST
April 23, 2007, 06:45 PM
thank you for the info.I have been looking for a excuse to buy a 20 inch rifled barrel with rifle sights and this may be it.

Ruger4570
April 23, 2007, 09:24 PM
I can just see it in a courtroom.. your short barreled "shottie" as you call it and a bayonet attached. I have a feeling you would do more time than the perp. Self defense is one thing, overgunned per se is another. It will seem to a jury of your peers as though you couldn't wait for the chance to "off" someone. The bravado is cool, but in the REAL world, it will get you time in a prison. Quit kidding yourself. Self defense is a serious thing and Judges and Juries may not have your mentality,,, most don't.. Been there as a Juror before and seen it first hand. The "Victim" went to jail. The Jury was convinced he was really looking for trouble and couldn't wait for someone to "violate" his space. Protecting yourself is one thing, looking like someone from a Rambo movie will buy you time in a prison. Don't believe me, ok, I don't care as it isn't going to be me facing the charges. Just have a "normal" shotgun, the "black shotguns" will more than likely get you in trouble and maybe seriously, whether you are right or not. Many people on a Jury don't like guns to start with, but then, it is your choice and your butt.

KALIFORNIST
April 23, 2007, 09:43 PM
I asked for bayonet lug mounting advice.not a lecture.my shotgun has a standard 18 inch barrel nothing short about it.I have seen afew swat guns in magazines and on t.v shows and mine doesnt look any worse then those.I guess I could buy a 26 inch 4 shot hunting shotgun with a fancy wood stock but I dont hunt.

Ruger4570
April 23, 2007, 09:50 PM
If you want to believe what you see on TV as factual and how the law, Courts and Juries really work,, go for it. Absolutly no skin off my nose. You obviously know a lot more than me. Best of luck too as I won't be facing the charges. Thank God for Hollywood, they just enlighten the masses as to how the system REALLY works,, Ya really..

kgpcr
April 23, 2007, 10:12 PM
If you need a pig sticker on the end of your shotgun you should not use a gun. if after 8 rounds of .12 GA you dont have a winner or are able to reload well then you pooched it bit time. as for looks i think a pig sticker on a shotgun looks like something a red neck would come up with to look like its a military gun.

RJay
April 23, 2007, 10:23 PM
Now wait a minute, I've seen some pretty mean swamp rabbits when I lived down around Dundee, Fl. If a blast of 12 gauge buck doesn't put them down the bayonet may be your last line of defense.

KALIFORNIST
April 23, 2007, 10:45 PM
lol,since when is dallas and detroit swat hollywood?why does everyone have to get all high and mighty over this?I think bayonets are cool.some people think nickle plated pistols with pearl grips are cool but I dont.But I dont give them a bunch of crap if they ask where to find pearl gripsthe beauty of a bayonet "mount"is you dont always have to use it so give me advice or atleast a break.

p99guy
April 24, 2007, 12:34 AM
While i wouldnt go to the trouble of welding on bayonet lugs, I collect military rifles and tend to go ahead and get all the things that go with them. Military finds them useful in guarding prisoners, more than making bonzi charges.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8720/200503120080tf.jpg

cloudcroft
April 24, 2007, 12:44 AM
Slideman,

The M7 bayonet is a pretty nice fighting knife all on its own; being able to put it on one's shotgun is a bonus. Whether or not you "need" it on the gun is YOUR decision...it's your gun, do whatever you want.

If I need to grab my Mossberg 590-A1, I will also grab the pistol-belt with ammo pouches on it...the M7 bayonet is on that belt, too.


bcarver,

That's overkill...a 22LR will do fine, but get something else for taking heads...the bayonet would be VERY hard-put to chop off ANYthing serious. I prefer a Moro barong, kris or kampilan for that job. ;-)

-- John D.

RsqVet
April 24, 2007, 03:04 AM
The points about the "look" of the gun before a jury are valid but perhaps overstated at times... I'd certainly not want to be on trial with a gun with a bayonet on it but then as has been mentioned prior one need not always have it on the gun.

As to shotguns and "SWAT" or whatever... the really great thigns about shotguns is they pack very good firepower while not looking all that evil... even my 870 P max with a 3 way sling, sure fire and ghost ring sights does not look all that diffirent from a sporting gun or all that evial compared with a tricked out M4 or FAL.

As to the question of weapon retention thing of this --- or do a drill --- hold the (unloaded) gun as you would normally... have a strong, person grap the muzzle and manipulate it... you will find it can be a bit of a callange to control... now imagien someone dong that with one hand while they stab at you or take a handgun to you... the bayonet does not do all that much because frankly some meth head might just do that very thing by grabbing the blade or grabbing below the blade which puts you in the position of trying to stap at or shoot someone who is wreseling your muzzle.

Dave McC
April 24, 2007, 09:01 AM
Bayonets on shotguns are nigh useless.

Zero your shotgun with slugs. Mount a bayonet. Check your zero. Chances are, your shotgun is now not shooting to the sights.

Next, pitchfork a hay bale the way folks use a bayonet. Recheck zero. Note you're not shooting to the same Zipcode.

Shotgun barrels haven't enough metal to maintain zero under those conditions.

Note that while the news footage from the War On Terror shows lots of shotguns, none have bayonets mounted. Now you know why...

RsqVet
April 24, 2007, 04:40 PM
Actually an intresting poll might be how many people in the past 30 or 40 years have evever used a bayonet for it's intended use...

Gewehr98
April 24, 2007, 04:55 PM
Remington did, in fact, manufacture them. You won't find them at WalMart or Gander Mountain, but here's your proof:

http://mauser98.com/870mk1left.jpg
http://mauser98.com/870mk1leftblade.jpg

They were issued to the military as the Remington 870Mk1 variant, both in complete gun form and as armorer's kits. I managed to buy two original factory Remington kits, hence my 870Mk1 above and below.

DaveMc is right. Shotgun barrels are quite thin, and if you're going to hang a bayonet on one, it had best be a seriously stout mount, like the older Winchestr Model 97 and Model 12 trench guns. I've tried the slug grouping thing with my 870Mk1 and a rifled Remchoke, and the point of impact does not change much with bayonet hanging or absent. I'll give Remington credit for thinking their design through and making sure a few bayonet thrusts into a bad guy won't bend the barrel. Take a look at the mag tube and the long 3-bolt clamp unitizing everything, actually stiffening up the barrel. You will, however, notice a nose-heavy gun for just a 20" barrel.

http://mauser98.com/870-3.jpg

kgpcr
April 25, 2007, 07:30 PM
Bayonets and shotguns go together like a fish on a motorcycle. I love them on military rigles but not shotguns

Gewehr98
April 25, 2007, 09:47 PM
Not particularly tolerant (kinda like this thread), but interesting, nonetheless.

Uncle Sam didn't get the fish/motorcycle note, evidently.

http://www2t.biglobe.ne.jp/~ohige/tsuhan/tanaka/gas_l/us_m1897_trench_gun_gl_11.jpg

http://www.bedlans.com/1897%20Trench%2031M.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/11449/DSC00415.JPG

Sounding like a Zumbo-ism in the making, to me. ;)

cloudcroft
April 26, 2007, 12:28 PM
kgpcr,

I am going to Galveston, TX, on my motorcycle and will have fish riding with me on the way back....I believe that CONCLUSIVELY PROVES that you are wrong!

;-)

-- John D. (Mossberg 590A1 -- heavier barrel, BTW -- with M7 bayonet)

waterhouse
April 26, 2007, 04:28 PM
Thanks for posting the pics Gewehr98, I had no idea. Learn something new every day.

KALIFORNIST
April 27, 2007, 09:00 PM
Thats my progress so far.ordered a cheap surplus m7 and a clamp on bayo lug for a heavy m16 barrel.To get to this point I had to cut the bottom off the standard barrel clamp and radius out the clamp on bayonet lug to fit against the magazine tube.only tools needed so far was dremel with cutting disk.last step is to have it welded on to magazine tube.I may or may not have the mag tube refinished when it is complete.Im waiting to see how bad it looks.probably buy another mag tube and clamp from ebay when I see one for the right price just incase I hate the finished product or I want to return to stock.I dont think this will be the most durable set up and im going to watch out for the mag tube warping.With this set up I consider it more of a haha type thing then useful.when done I might buy a m9 bayonet and see how it looks.I still consider this a good weapon retention advantage cause there would be no way I could wrestle this thing out of someones hands with out getting cut up.If it doesnt work then I own a pretty cool m7 bayo which I think is worth owning by itself and I am out a mag tube.IMHO I think it was worth getting to play with my dremel:D .Ill post pics of finished product after its welded.may the posts on how stupid this is flow like wine!



http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/KALIFORNIST/DSCN0713.jpg

Kommando
April 28, 2007, 05:29 AM
I would recommend the Mossberg 590A1, which is the Military's version of the Mossberg 500, and it is even beefed up off of the 590 version. It has a thicker barrel and some other good features that allow more time to fire without worrying about overheating. They try to make as sturdy as possible, which means that if you're worried about it getting wrestled out of your hands by the barrel, and you have the other 90% of it, I think your going to have the advantage of all the weight of it in your hands. Another thing to add is that it was the only pump action shotgun to pass the Milspec standards.

liliysdad
April 28, 2007, 06:40 AM
Another thing to add is that it was the only pump action shotgun to pass the Milspec standards.

It was the only one tested.:rolleyes:

RsqVet
April 28, 2007, 11:33 AM
Um yeah I'd be intrested to know where the statement that the mossberg was the only mill-spec gun comes from as well

The military has used the Winchester 97, 12, 1200, Ithica, and remington 870... and those are jsut the guns that I have seen at one time or another in person and no the 870 does not go back to the 60's they were still buying them in the 90's and were in active use.

Gewehr98
April 28, 2007, 04:14 PM
USGI 870Mk1 unitized lug/clamp/swivel right here:

http://froogle.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=70435200

KALIFORNIST
April 28, 2007, 07:13 PM
only 80 dollars!!damn it.I spent all my play money for the week!

cloudcroft
April 28, 2007, 11:11 PM
liliysdad,

Remington didn't want to risk failing the trials -- it would hurt their sales if they did -- so they decided not to compete at all. Mossberg took the risk.

The point is, however, the 590A1 is superb regardless; it's definitely something I'd take along on an outing...like to King Kong's island, for example...if I could carry enough ammo for it.

But I guess if those guys could carry all those Thompson .45ACP drum magazines (HEAVY!), I guess I could carry enough 12-gauge...and a good edged weapon for those pesky insects! :)

-- John D.

liliysdad
April 29, 2007, 06:35 AM
Remington didn't want to risk failing the trials -- it would hurt their sales if they did -- so they decided not to compete at all. Mossberg took the risk.

I am fully aware of the reasoning behind the one-gun trials. The fact is, Remington had nothing to gain from the trials, and Mossberg had nothing to lose. Remington still outsells Mossberg in LE circles, and the 870 remains a steady seller the the military.

KALIFORNIST
April 29, 2007, 08:26 PM
well I just realized that I have to design it as a clamp on.Went to weld and realized that it would work great other then the fact that I couldnt remove the magazine tube which means I couldnt remove the barrel.lol oh well atleast I realized it before I became a complete dumb ass.....I have it zip tied on for now to see hot it would feel and look.Now I have to make a true bolt on clamp.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/KALIFORNIST/DSCN0732.jpg

RsqVet
April 29, 2007, 08:31 PM
Wow

What brand / kind of sling is that?

KALIFORNIST
April 29, 2007, 09:08 PM
the sling was poached from something from somewhere.I cant remember from what but it just happens to be the right length for slinging it with weapon across the chest at the ready.I had to use this sling with those mounts do to the rear mount being thin on the cheap stock till I can afford a knoxx.most of the time I dont have a sling on it at all just got it outa the truck.

liliysdad
April 29, 2007, 09:19 PM
I think if you were able to hang some more crap off that gun, youd have a veritable ATI Catalog.

KALIFORNIST
April 29, 2007, 09:35 PM
that is the goal of a zombie gun.....This inst supposed to be a serious working gun yet.It will be when I buy a knoxx stock/surefire forend/Rifle sights.by the way the only thing ati is the heatshield and ghost sight combo which I purchased for the easy and cheap sights.as goofy as this "tactical" mess is it actually is a pretty good shooter.

cloudcroft
April 29, 2007, 11:43 PM
liliysdad,

Then say that next time and give the OTHER side of the story instead of making Remington look like some superior gun. It isn't.

Mossberg had just as much to lose as did ANY maker who competed.

Military gun trials are TOUGH...and the Mossberg 590A1 doesn't take a back seat to ANY other pump out there.

-- John D.

liliysdad
April 30, 2007, 05:48 AM
LOL....drink the Mossberg Kool-Aid. What kills me is that Mossberg makes a big deal about "winning" the trials, when it was the only horse in the race. Remington did not enter a gun, and had no reason to. They have had the LE and civilian market cornered for a LONG time. I have no doubt that the 870 could have passed any such test the 590 did, but its irrelevant.

kozak6
April 30, 2007, 08:58 PM
Somewhere I read that Reminton didn't bother entering because they didn't think they'd be able to beat Mossberg's bid.

FirstFreedom
April 30, 2007, 09:08 PM
If you get a bayo for the 870, you'll need this to match:

http://www.ghostholster.com/cz_folder/images/SP01.jpg

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=228932

Just sayin... :)

KALIFORNIST
April 30, 2007, 10:19 PM
1 step ahead of you.already had a link saved to my favorites.unfortunately my CZ40B doesnt have the needed rail:(