Would Appreciate advice

[WhiteFeather93]

Good day/morning/evening,

Recently I purchased my first handgun. A Taurus PT1911. I kinda wanted a SA Mil Spec but the Taurus had the parts I wanted to put on the mil spec and for a lot less. So due to budget restrictions I opted for the Taurus and honestly I am glad I did. I love this pistol! I have about 200 rounds through it and am trying to break it in. Groups at 25 yards right now are around 3 and 4 inches consistently and every once and a while I can clover leaf the little girl. I would like to add that this is going to be my main carry fire arm. My question has to do with tactics and carry concerns.

I mostly use a PA State game land range and even though its mostly used for rifles and SG's I make due. I have gone to a few indoor ranges but this is my main range. My question(s) is/are how do I practice things like drawing and firing and moving and firing without causing a big scene? Everybody at this range just sits and shoots or stands. I would love to practice drawing from my concealed holster, and moving away from and around the target.

My second question deals with when or when not to carry. Now I hear people say they carry all the time but I am wondering if there are times you really shouldn't. My best example would be if I planned to go out on the town and spend some considerable time at a bar. It is my thought not to mix alcohol and fire arms. And even though I may need it I would rather risk not having it on me when I'm not in the best of mind. Are there other scenarios that carrying should be suspended?

[Sycofrogg]

Are there other scenarios that carrying should be suspended?


If you decide to carry, it will be your responsibility to learn your states laws. Like in PA it is illegal to carry into any establishment with a liquor license. Your local diner sells alcohol? Can't carry in it. Read the laws and learn when and where you can't carry.

[Shane Tuttle]

Congratulations, Whitefeather.
I'm sure you have a good gun there. Appears to get rave reviews. And besides, you got it for you, not anyone else.

I have to +1 on frogg's statement. If you're wanting more specifics other than the obvious, I would say this.

1. Your thoughts on not carrying when plans are called for presence of alcohol is a very smart idea.
2. If you attend church, maybe consult your pastor/priest etc. to see if they allow carry or not. (Not familiar with PA laws).
3. I would say at major sporting events might be a no no.
4. If you go to a relative's/friend's house that's adamantly against your right, I would respect their wishes.

Those are just my thoughts. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, just some ideas.

[Lurper]

Find out what your state's specific laws are before you carry. Also, find out what your range's rules are. Many public ranges do not allow drawing, rapid fire, etc. You can practice most of that by dry firing. However, you should probably seek professional asistance so that you learn how to properly draw etc., otherwise you are just reinforcing bad habits.

[SGHOTH]

Pa has very few carry restrictions. Basicly only schools, courthouses, fed property, and similar. Bars and similar establishments are legal but if you are drinking it is not a good idea to carry. Private establishments may post no firearms signs but they do not carry the weight of law. If you are discovered with a firearm in a posted store etc. they can ask you to leave and if you refuse persue trespassing charges. If you decide to carry use your common sense and be discrete. Get some offiical literature and read up on everything so you don't depend on the memory of internet types. ;) (like me)

Pa game lands have very strict regualtions about shooting. Including if I recall correctly a very strict limit on the number of rounds in a mag, (I don't recall what it it but it is low, like 3 or 4 rounds). Your best bet is to try out private ranges.

[John28226]

Find a local club that has IPSC matches and participate in them. Don't try for blazing speed in the beginning, just consistency and safety. And FUN! You will need to buy a decent holster and a quality belt; it would be a good idea to partner with someone who has been shooting matches for a while and can give you some tips.

Once you have gotten hooked, you will probably want to buy a quality reloader (such as a Dillon) and load your own ammunition. This will open a whole new world of sport for you.

From what I have seen the Taurus 1911 is a winner. Enjoy it.

John
Mayberry, NC

[oldbillthundercheif]

My question(s) is/are how do I practice things like drawing and firing and moving and firing without causing a big scene?

If you get up early enough most ranges are deserted. Does this one have a range officer? You may be able to schedule some practice during a usually-dead time slot.

If the range does not allow this sort of thing, you need to find a spot out in the boondocks where you can shoot safely. Dry-firing is great but the real thing is crucial to practice.

[Smokin Joe]

better spend your first 10,000 draws with snap caps.

the last thing you need is a bullet in your foot.

[brando]

The Taurus 1911 is verry nice fire arm and i carry one from time to time.Its a little big and hard to conceal for a guy like me but a nice piece. the thing about that piece is if you pull it out its silver and brite brite brite and everybody is going to see it,you know ? "all the witnesses at the trial"first check your local and state laws and ordinances and make sure you know where you cant carry. remember concealed carry means concealed and you never want to hear "OMG he's got a gun":eek: you only have to hear someone say this one time to know what im talking about.:D
what i did is just get an in the pant holster and a shirt that dosnt print and start carrying every where ya go even to the toilet.a word to the wise when ya undo your pants the holster will flipp upside down and you stand the chance of watching your piece clatter across the tile while your stuck there with your pants down.:D it shouldnt take you long to figure out where your comfort zone is and at first this made me feel real awkward and that all eyes were on me and the piece felt realy big and heavy.i have to remember when the drama starts i have to leave "because im carrying" and i carry for personal protection im not law enforcement or a hero waiting to happen.if someone starts to comit a crime i have to go because im carrying and that makes it even more criminal for me.chose your company wisley.:D when agressive drivers pass me on the right side or flip me off smile and let them go cause im carrying.
hope this helps.
PEACE

[WhiteFeather93]

Thank you everyone for you opinions. This site is a great place to get other peoples opinions on great aspects shooting and firearms and thank everyone for taking the time to reply. As stated previously PA has very few state laws on carrying the few it does have i.e, Federal and local goverment bldgs, post offices and such is all I have found. Bars are pretty much free game but I have not mixed alcohol with firearms in the past and I don't intend to in the future. Someone else brought up another great point, sporting events! PA has a great history with its fans although its teams rarely go anywhere :D (thats why I'm a Dolphins fan go phins!:cool: ) I know at my place of work you are not allowed to have firearms even in your car let alone on you. Now I am unsure of the leagality of this but its company policy. Anyone else have a opinion or thought to share?

On my other topic. Yes the state game lands have a 3 round restriction. That for me is more of an annoyance. There are some people who stand around and call themselves an officer but they wear no uniform and have no credentials to prove anything. I am looking for some matches to get into. There are plenty of things to do with a shotgun around here but not much else. I used to drive to different counties to compete with my rifle. To cover a few other points, I have a Uncle Mikes's Paddle holster and a Leather three position (can't remember the name) holster. I find both with a good pair of jeans a tight belt and loose tee do a grea job of covering her up. And finally does anyone have experience with those AZOOM caps? Are they any good to practice with? I have just been practicing drawing but not pulling the trigger, would pulling the trigger make that big of a difference ??

[Skyguy]

WhiteFeather93,

Please find a competent trainer, immediately!! You're an armed loose cannon.

And for boozin.....
It's real simple: If you drink, don't drive......or carry your "little girl".
.

[mikejonestkd]

I'm with Smokin Joe and Skyguy...get training...real training, not your brother's uncle's buddy that used to be a mall ninja.

Nice firearm!!! Be safe and enjoy.

[Smokin Joe]

your brother's uncle's buddy that used to be a mall ninja.

OUCH ! HA HA HA

USED to be , that is the part that hurts the most ! HA HA HA

[mikejonestkd]

I am glad that I got a chuckle out of you joe. No offense implied to the OP, it was just a recomendation to get real training. I personally learned more in an 8 hour course with a professional that I did my entire life from my buddies, and their uncles that used to be mall ninjas.....

[Shane Tuttle]

Whitefeather,
I don't know the PA law, but when you stated that your company doesn't allow guns in YOUR car jogs my memory of a current HUGE debacle with Weyerhauser...

Several employees got canned at Weyerhauser allegedly because they had unloaded firearms locked in their vehicles. None of them displayed any intent to use them or even think of bringing them into work. They filed suit and some have gotten their jobs back. BUT, it's a big legal battle in the Senate in Oklahoma to allow workers to possess firearms in their own vehicles as long they are lawfully stored. Phillips 66 jumped in out of nowhere to help Weyerhauser fund the lawsuit to block the bill from being passed.

That's why I refuse to buy any Phillips 66 gas or any of their products. Go to www.nra-ila.com. Search the archives and the story should be there.

[T. O'Heir]

"...my first handgun..." Go get some training and join a shooting club. The former because you need it. The latter because you'll meet some of the finest people you ever will. You can't just pick up a handgun and expect to be able to shoot it well enough to defend you and your's.
Real life isn't like TV or movies.

[WhiteFeather93]

I would like to point out a few things because I feel I am being branded something I'm not...

1. I do not have a CCWP yet and do not intend to get one until I am completely confident with my pistol.

2. I have read the laws reguarding CCW in my state and will continue to follow up with them so as to not make a mistake.

3. I have been around firearms all of my life. My father was a Marine, my grandfather was a Marine, my uncle was in the Army and I had another uncle who owned his own gunshop. This is not something completely new to me.

I apriciate everyones opinions but I dislike being called a loose cannon, you might as well call anyone who picks up a gun for the first time a danger to society. I simply wanted to get people as well as my self thinking about times that it would be inapropriate to carry. How many people sit at home and have a drink or two with there pistol on them? Reguardless of my backround I really doubt that someone who has picked up a firearm for the first time would love to hear that they are endangering society and need to seek help before they or someone they know is harmed. And maybe you didn't mean it like that but it sure came off like so.

[Diesel1]

I believe in following cc laws, and by no means am I advocating breaking them, however exactly what law created by feel good liberals or misled business owners is worth the loss of life in the below incident at Luby's Cafeteria. How many people with the ability to carry concealed, such as myself, go out to eat on a regular basis and leave their firearm at home. I see it this way, if such an incident as below comes to fruition, and someone begins to open fire on my family or innocent bystanders, will I be comforted that at least I obeyed ridiculous gun policies. I tend to see it like this, if I am ever out to eat or in a place that may have a policy against cc, and I ever need to pull out a concealed firearm, I am going to have more to worry about than a policy that prevented me from carrying in the first place. That being said, alcohol of any sort mixed with firearms is asking for trouble.

On October 16, 1991 at Luby's Cafe in Killeen, Texas, gun control laws had deadly consequences for 23 people who were murdered by a lone gunman. A young doctor was helpless to protect her parents from being murdered when during the killing spree she remembered that her gun was in her car because it was illegal for her to carry it in her purse

[Vitamin G]

If you decide to carry, it will be your responsibility to learn your states laws. Like in PA it is illegal to carry into any establishment with a liquor license. Your local diner sells alcohol? Can't carry in it. Read the laws and learn when and where you can't carry.

Its also your responsibility to weed out erroneous information that others give you about PA state laws...

[John28226]

Don't know where you are in relation to Germansville, PA the Ontelaunee Rod and Gun Club is hosting the East Coast Regional Revolver Championship - you can get info at www.ICORE.org or you can contact USPSA/IPSC via e-mail - office@uspsa.org.

Regardless of whether you chose to carry, you can also obtain a lot of good information from the USCCA website.

Good luck and good shooting.

John
Mayberry, NC

[Dave R]

Whitefeather, I applaud your desire to practice drawing from concealment. Shooting small groups at long distances is nice, and fun, but the ability to draw quickly from concealment and get that first shot on target accurately, is the skill most likely to save your life (if it ever needs saving, knock wood.)

Drawing and dry-firing is a great first step. And A-Zoom snaps caps are the One True snap cap. None better.

Being able to draw and then fire is even better. But its dangerous with live ammo, and most ranges won't allow it. So here's what I do. Might work for you.

I got a box of Speer plastic training bullets. A box of 50 is under $10, and you re-use them, so they'll last until you lose them. The hard part is, they are powered by primer only, so you can't use them unless you have a bit of reloading equipment. What you need are:

1. A cheap reloading press. You can get Lee's hand press for under $20.
2. A set of 45acp dies. If you get them used, they're like $20. New is probably $35
3. A hand-priming tool, either Lee's or RCBS's are fine. Cost is also about $20-30
4. Some large pistol primers. Cost is about $2 per 100.

What you do is collect some of your fired brass. Run it through the press with the resizing die to punch out the spent primer. Use the hand primer to put in a new primer. Then push the plastic training bullet in by hand. You _might_ have to use the expander die to flare the mouth of the brass slightly. But you may not.

Since these are primer-powered only, they won't cycle your slide. But they shoot accurately. So you can draw from concealment, and put your first round on target. I use a surplus wool blanket as a backstop, and that collects the plastic bullets for re-use. These are powerful enough to shoot through a thin blanket, so don't use your favorite. Been there, done that, have holes and mad wife to prove it.

I feel comfortable shooting these in my garage, with the windows open for ventilation. Primer smoke has bad stuff in it. If you can't shoot in your garage or home, you should at least be able to shoot them out in the woods somewhere. They are not nearly as loud as a real round, but are louder than caps. I wear hearing protection when using them.

Since I have begun practicing this way, my ability to draw quickly and get the first round off fast, and accurately, has improved a bunch. That improves my confidence somewhat, too.

Dunno if that'll work for you, but it sure worked for me.

[allenomics]

There are many place where you will not be able to carry. Do your research (every state, municipality has different rules). There are obvious federal guidelines as well; courthouses, post offices, etc. Don't make a mistake that could land you in BIG trouble!

[SeaMariner]

Like in PA it is illegal to carry into any establishment with a liquor license. Your local diner sells alcohol?
:confused:

I don't know how PA defines it but most states define alcohol and liquor as rectangle and square respectively... For example, I can't go to a bar but a restraunt which only serves beer (not a liquor), such as Hooters, is legal since they do not serve liquor. Liquor licenses are different from alcohol licenses..

Might want to check into that alittle deeper... Not sure on what it may be in PA.

On the other hand, your question about shooting scenarios (drawing and moving), look for where IDPA matches go down near you and see if the ranges they run at have such areas.. Otherwise, find a friend with land away from everyone else.

[T. O'Heir]

"...state game lands have a 3 round restriction..." That may be for migratory birds like ducks and geese. There's a treaty between the U.S., Canada and I think Mexico that covers migratory birds. It's called the Migratory Bird Act, up here. Don't know what it's called Stateside. The idea is that if you can't kill a duck or goose with three shots, the bird is too far away. It reduces wounding.
"...drawing from concealment..." Concealment doesn't mean cover.

[glock19xdsc]

Whitefeather93,

First, welcome!

I applaud the decision to become familiar with your new pistol, and state concealed-carry laws.

You may want to go ahead and get the LTCF now, even though you may not plan on carrying right away, in order to keep from inadvertantly running afoul of PA laws concerning transporting weapons in a vehicle while driving from and to any ranges you may frequent. This was a factor for me at one time.

http://www.packing.org/state/pennsylvania/#statecar_law

Also, PA does NOT prohibit from carrying in an establishment that has a liquor license.

http://www.packing.org/state/pennsylvania/#stateoff_limits

www.packing.org is a good resource.:)

Good luck!