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MJD
March 12, 2007, 05:14 AM
I have produced a 20rd drum for a Saiga-12 shotgun. I "was" a member of the Saiga-12 forum up intill I released this information. I had positive comments from most but a small few, including some people in charge, didn't agree with it and banned me. That still didn't change the fact though. The mold is currently being made off of a tested and proven prototype. The mold won't be complete intill the end of June or the first of July. I am estimating that I will sell them for $225 each. That is not set in stone yet though. It might be more, it might be less. I will probably produce 1000 of them on the first run, depending on the feedback I receive. Maybe more if there is a big enough demand. This thread isn't to collect money or anything like that. It is to get a list of people that are interested in them. If you are interested. Please send me an email to liricli@aol.com and put "saiga drum" as the subject. Please don't forget to fill in the subject so I don't discard as junk mail. When the time draws near I will send you to a secure order forum. I hope that this topic isn't as taboo here as it was on the saiga-12 forum. I am open for questions? Thanks, Mike Davidson

punkkin
March 12, 2007, 09:29 AM
you got thrown out for producing a 20 round drum...good thing you didn't for a 50 rounder...they'd have kicked your dog too.

dfaugh
March 12, 2007, 11:51 AM
Have you gone the whole route of having it approved by BATF? Remember that they classify revolving cylinder semi-auto shotguns (e.g. Street-Sweepers) as DDs (Destructive Devices). Totally illegal in lots of places and subject to NFA taxes elsewhere.

I'd buy one, just for the novelty value (gonna be awful heavy) but they are DEFINITLY illegal here in NY (no cool toys for us).

FirstFreedom
March 12, 2007, 01:25 PM
I'm in!

Crosshair
March 13, 2007, 02:18 AM
The reason he was banned is because the ATF said that they WILL remove the "sporting shotguns" exemption and reclassify the Saiga 12 as a "Destructive Device" if magazines over 10 rounds/rotating magazine become available. This was found out when AGP Arms asked the ATF about making 10 round mags for the Saiga 12.

Be warned that anyone buying a 20 round Saiga 12 magazine is treading on legal thin ice as the legalities of the 20 round drum are not settled yet. Look what happened to the Streetsweeper and USAS-12. The very same thing could happen to the Saiga 12.

There is a REAL danger that the Saiga 12 could become a DD because of these drum magazines. Those of you who live in states where DD's are not allowed would be SOL and have to move them out of state or turn them in. Depending where you live, they would not be legal for hunting.

Here are a few threads to read on Saiga-12.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15409&hl=
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15430&hl=

MJD has not investigated the legal repercussions of making these magazines. Once again, the risk that the ATF will DD the Saiga 12 is very real.

Jeff Mulliken
March 13, 2007, 10:34 AM
Bringing any product to market without confirming the likely repurcussions is reckless.

The greater community of Saiga owners should be very concerned. In fact the gun owning community should be concerned, think about the precedent....if an "anti" wants a weapon to be severly limited they just need to produce an after market product that would make a production gun into a DD, then bring the product to market in the US.

I'd rather see an aftermarket gimmick outlawed before it's produced than to have it impact the core product.

Jeff

Csspecs
March 13, 2007, 05:56 PM
You are not going to make any friends with that. Using the drum with the shotgun will remove the "sporting use" exemption that keeps firearms with a bore over .50 (one half inch) from being considered a destructive devise.

Not only could you get saigas banned from import, but you could be arrested for owning a unregeistered destrucive devise (same as owning a machine gun without a tax stamp).

As it is I think just the drum would be illegal as it is a part that would convert the shotgun to a DD. Wish you the best of luck..... Because your going to need it.

EDIT: Just a thought, you can make a drum of any size you want for the saiga .410 because the bore is only .45cal or so (It is under .50 inch so it can't be a DD).

oldbillthundercheif
March 13, 2007, 06:22 PM
If the BATFE is taking a stand as drastic as some of the folks here have written...

Don't do it!

I want one of these crazy shotguns but doubt I will be able to buy one anytime soon due to my current financial situation. If you manage to get them heavily regulated just because you want a few more rounds you will have done a severe disservice to the firearm community.

If I go to order one and find out your weird pursuit has made it impossible, I will not be a happy camper. 10+1 rounds with as many more 10 round reloads as you like seems good enough. It's a shotgun ferchristsake!

Csspecs
March 13, 2007, 09:50 PM
All I can say is that IF they are deemed a DD by the ATF and I lived in a state that does not allow DDs I would sue you for the loss of my shotgun. I don't know how many saiga shotguns have been sold but I would bet more than 1000 have been sold to people in states that won't allow DDs. So if you got them taken away you would be looking down the barrel of a huge lawsuit, like 400,000$ big (on the low side).

So if I was in your shoes I would be doing some fact finding before taking orders.

As for people thinking about ordering. Until he has info from the ATF saying that it is fine you might as well have your name on a order for a hand grenade or pipe bomb (all DDs).

akdog
March 14, 2007, 08:17 PM
The word from the BATF is use of a 20 round drum with a Saiga 12 will cause the combination of the two to be ruled a NFA destructive device.
This will require a $200 tax stamp (NFA federal paperwork) in addition to what Mike wants as a price for his drum. Any further questions about this legality contact the BATF Tech Branch.

ATF
Firearms & Explosives Import Branch Attention:Chief Sterling Nixon
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virigina 25405

The new phone number is: (304) 616-4550
The new fax number is: (304) 616-4551

Hours: 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday

Para Cassatt
June 11, 2011, 10:11 PM
I was hoping that someone may be able to update this with accurate info. I haven't been able to swim through the beating around the bush that is the NFA handbook and appreciate any help on where these 20 round drums stand.

jaymce
June 14, 2011, 12:58 PM
WOW! Way to dredge up a post. :D

They are out and they have been out for a while.

Mike makes the MD20 which is supposed to be the best available. There were a few drums made that did not really work as well with out extensive work.

Several companies are now making drums after Mike brought them to market. There are different capacity drums depending on who you go with.

I believe the MD20 is running around 100$ now. I believe the others are in the same price range.

B. Lahey
June 14, 2011, 01:07 PM
Yeah, the 20rd drums have been out for quite some time. The BATFE apparently doesn't mind so far, as Saiga 12s come into the country in a sporting configuration. They don't seem excessively concerned about what a small number of people do with modifications and accessories once the guns are in the US. So far, anyway.

The MD20 seems to have the best reviews. I haven't bought one, as they are big and goofy and I already have a pile of 10rd mags.

Para Cassatt
June 14, 2011, 10:30 PM
They have been out for a while but I never bothered to look into the high capacity mags until recently. Neither have I dealt with the parts built import rifles used with high cap. mags before so 922r is new territory for me. Everyone has different recommendations from whom have responded to my direct emails so far. If the count for the drum mags are 3 parts as MD Arms suggests (18,19 & 20 on the list) then would nothing need to be done to any without the threaded barrel and do the 10 round stick mags also count as 3? Mine is threaded so I would need to do 1 more part change or solder/weld the barrel nut on if I'm correct. The ATF still hasn't answered my emailed question as of yet.

rottieman33
June 15, 2011, 08:39 PM
old post time to kill it