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SpiritWalker
March 7, 2007, 05:09 PM
I saw a breaching shotgun in a gun rag a while back that had a flashider looking thingy on the barrel, It was supposed to allow gasses and lead dust from a contact shot (barrel pressed against a lock or what ever) with a breaching round to escape so the barrel wouldn't split. Anyone else seen that or know who makes it?

Ruger4570
March 7, 2007, 05:19 PM
Hmmmmm!! I never had much use for a breaching shotgun, so I didn't check this out. I have to wonder who other than a cop would care...

hpg
March 7, 2007, 06:53 PM
Mossberg has something like that on one of their 500 models.......hpg

BreacherUp!
March 7, 2007, 07:18 PM
That is precisely what the muzzle brake is for. Placing a normal barrel right up against the door may cause the barrel to be damaged from gas pressure, so a 1"-2" standoff is required. However, this reduces accuracy of the breaching shot. So the muzzle break is added so that you can place the muzzle right on the door, exactly where you want the shot to go, however, the gasses are dispersed by the brake.

STLRN
March 7, 2007, 07:22 PM
I have to wonder who other than a cop would care...

The military? We on occasion do have to breach a building.

banditt007
March 7, 2007, 07:51 PM
i'l seen them for sale on the internet, i forget where. pretty pointless for a civilian. If you do need to breech a door just hold off an inch or two, its not like you are going to be breeching so many doors that one would want a door breaching muzzle end.

kozak6
March 8, 2007, 12:00 AM
I know Tromix makes one.

AMT8951
March 8, 2007, 02:00 AM
Our Dept. uses one made from an old "cup" style clamp on tear gas dispenser. However if you want something nice, try this link.

http://www.royalarms.com/

Desert01
March 8, 2007, 01:04 PM
You are correct Mossberg makes them and sells them has complete guns. Barrels only are available for LEO from select LE/Gov dealers for the 500 and 870 with a tritium bead sight.

10th Mountain influanced the design, based on their use of the 500 in combat since 2001.

AMT8951, PM me and I will see if I can get your agency a demo out. 870 or 500?

Desert01

tostada
March 8, 2007, 03:54 PM
A short breaching barrel (besides looking mean) would be a good way to have an 18" defensive gun that behaved like a 15" gun.

Of course, you don't get the benefit of the gun actually being shorter, and the weight saved by the holes isn't going to make up for how heavy those barrels look.

bcarver
March 13, 2007, 06:53 AM
Vang makes what they call a shotgun standoff device.
It extends the mag tube about 2 or 3 inches past the muzzle.
It allows you to pinpoint the shot and prevents barrel damage.

Hedley
March 13, 2007, 09:11 AM
Haha, While doing an FFL transaction at the range last night, I eyeballed this older lady browsing through the shotgun rack behind the counter. This indoor range doesn't have the best of selections, but it has a bit of everything. She said several times that she was an avid collector, and couldn't make up her mind what to get next. She was definately set on a pistol/shotgun combo for home defense. After browsing and holding several Mossberg 500's, she ended up taking the pistol dripped "breacher" model home, because it makes for a good "conversational piece." She also got a Taurus .380.

I know the guy behind the couter is trying to make a buck, but that damn shotgun was probably only slightly bigger than her.

WeedWacker
March 13, 2007, 02:18 PM
Even if you had one of these you need slugs to breech a door and I think you need special clay slugs or somthing like that to breach properly. Usually they have a jagged edge on the rim too so you can jam it into the door and it won't buck up as much centering the force on the lock/jam/whatever.

AMT8951
March 13, 2007, 03:55 PM
Weed Wacker

The shells I have seen are made out of compressed powdered Aluninum (I think). You can also use them with a regular shotgun. You just have to hold the barrel 3-4 inchs from the door, at about a 45% angle.

banditt007
March 13, 2007, 04:31 PM
back in the day buckshot was used !!!!!! :eek:

today breeching rounds are either plastic capsulated metal powder, or made out of a heavy weighted clay. cool stuff.

jrothWA
March 13, 2007, 10:33 PM
made out of zinc.
Carry over of the industrial kiln gun for knocking clinker off kiln and steam boilers.

skeeter1
March 13, 2007, 11:43 PM
Why in the world would you need a "breaching shotgun?" That's when you call the cops and let them take over. I like my scatterguns for HD/hunting/sporting uses, but breaching? No thanks.

Desert01
March 14, 2007, 09:48 AM
Shotguns are very effective for LE and Mil Breachers. I don't think the Legal impacts of civilians breaching doors would be very good though.

Further thoughts:

http://www.desertsystms.com/OperationalRoleoftheShotgun.html

Desert 01

Metaloy Industries
March 14, 2007, 04:36 PM
http://www.wilsontactical.com/detail.aspx?ID=41

SpiritWalker
March 22, 2007, 10:53 PM
Thanks for all the links and info everyone.

For those who question the need for a breaching shotgun; let's take a little tour through your gun cabinet so I can decide if you need the firearms you have, shall we? :p

Smitty in CT
March 23, 2007, 09:15 AM
Impact Guns sells them for $320....

http://www.impactguns.com/store/015813541251.html
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/moss_54125.jpg

Smitty

mcubed4130
March 23, 2007, 10:35 PM
Hmm... I think this means, I need to buy barrel #4 for my Mossberg 500.

:)

-M3

Desert01
March 24, 2007, 07:45 AM
You're going to have a hard time getting just the barrel. Right now I am only selling to agencies and a couple of companies that train breachers.

SpiritWalker
March 25, 2007, 12:31 AM
Barrels in various lengths are available all over. I was more interested in the stand-off/compensator device. Permanently attached and giving an overall barrel length of 18-20 inches just to add another dimension of versatility to the uber-versatile 12 gauge.

I don’t have a pressing “need” for a breaching shotgun and sincerely hope I never will but I act on the axiom of, “Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.” A Remington 870 with a rifle sighted slug/buckshot barrel w/ breaching device and another 24-26 in barrel with interchangeable chokes is my conception of a “do anything, anywhere, anytime” shotgun.

Desert01
March 25, 2007, 08:57 AM
THe Mossberg barrels are also availible for the 870. Only come with bead sights though. Wilson Combat makes one, not sure of the availiblity w/o the gun attached, and Royal Arms modifies barrels with their own breacher, but
I think they are also going with agencies only.

I believe one of the companies that I supply will make the barrels availible to the public. Once I deliver and confirm with him they will be availible to the public I could repost. He is getting Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 barrels.

Desert 01

ouchman07
March 25, 2007, 10:08 AM
everyone knows shorter swings better,carries better...they may be real wrist crackers and probabally illegal where most of us live,i know they are where i live.so i have to imagine what it would be like to have one of those little monsters.well to bad for me. but i can still look. if you google or whatever you do to find somthing, "THE SERBU SUPER SHORTY 12G AOW" ithink i would have mine made out of an 870,maybe even a marine magnum. oh yeh,it would be alittle more expensive than the pretty steep price this co. already charges,but it would be awsome... guess if im gonna live in newyork ill have to dream on...

SpiritWalker
April 1, 2007, 03:17 PM
I guess the thread title is misleading. Tacti-cool 12 ga AOW pistols and dedicated (NFA SBS) breaching shotguns are interesting and if I ever win the lottery, I’ll probably get a couple for conversation pieces. But again, my primary interest is in a breaching/stand-off device to add to an 18”-20” slug/buckshot barrel or available barrels (again 18” to 20”) with the device permanently attached.

I like the Royal Arms #12-SB7-V and #12-SB8-V models but apparently they restrict sales to military/LE and qualified breaching instructors only. *shrugs* I’ll check with the local machine shops to see if they will make something similar for a reasonable price, should I decide to go with that type. Small job shops are usually willing to do “one offs” if not overly complicated and I can drill the ports and do the polishing/deburring/finishing work myself.

Concerning the availability of specialty “breaching rounds”; I’m pretty sure all the manufactures restrict sales to military/LE as well but I’d be willing to bet any size lead shot load will get the job done.

One last comment on “need.” What if every city and town in the area from Memphis, TN to St. Louis, MO and from Nashville, TN to Joplin, MO is completely devastated by a major earthquake while every city and town in the area from New Orleans, LA to Madison, WI and from Charlotte, NC to Oklahoma City, OK suffers varying degrees of damage? Dooms Day scenario? Think it can’t happen? Think again. The last time the New Madrid Seismic Zone had a big one, it rang the church bells in Boston, MA and the scientists say it’s overdue to happen again. So…

Do you know anyone that needs to take certain medications daily to stay alive? I know several. Are there hospitals, nursing homes and other facilities in your area where people are or could be locked in and may be abandoned during such a crisis (as they were in New Orleans during and after Katrina)? There are lots around where I live. I may not “need” to breach doors today but I’ll be happy to spend a couple hundred bucks now to have that capability available should I need it in the future.

Desert01
April 1, 2007, 09:01 PM
I distribute breaching barrels for 500's and 870's. Right now they are only going to agencies and the Military. I believe that most of us are still avoiding civilian sales because "breaching" with a shotgun is not has easy or safe has you might think. Last fall a soldier with hundreds of breaches under his belt lost an eye in Iraq doing a shotgun breach.

In my own writing even for professional jornals I have purposely left out the how of shotgun breaching, because you need training.

I don't anticipate changing that policy in the near future.

If you have to have a breacher you can by the whole gun at your local gun shop. Mossberg 500 w/Pistol Grip only.

SpiritWalker
April 2, 2007, 12:21 AM
I appreciate your concern but when I was a youngster and first being taught to shoot, I was told that there is a risk every time you pick up a firearm. (Treat every firearm as if it were loaded, especially when you “know” it’s not.) Rest assured, I’ll be cautious in my experimentation.

I understand the reluctance of manufacturers and distributors in our litigious society to sell certain products or training to the general public and I think that’s fine. However, if you think shotgun breaching techniques are a closely held secret, too abstruse for those of us in the unwashed masses or can’t possibly be reasoned out (my first post not withstanding) and proven with $50 worth of salvaged doors, hardware and some scrap lumber, you can go right on thinking that.

I really have to wonder how many restricted breaching barrels (as well as SBS’/SBRs, suppressed/select fire weapons and explosive devices) wound up in the hands of "LEOs" of the New Orleans PD. The last reports I’ve heard were almost 50% of the officers on the active payroll before Katrina were actually fictitious names, had been dead/retired for decades or were otherwise non-existent. Of course N.O. is the only city in America with rampant corruption in the government offices and it never happens at the county, state or federal level. :rolleyes: