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View Full Version : Winchester model 1907 help please.


kingudaroad
March 6, 2007, 06:31 PM
I have this gun that was bought new by my great grandfather and was wondering if you think it is safe to shoot. It seems mechanically sound. The only problem is the forend is cracked pretty bad.

Also any advice on how to fix that forend would be helpful. I also have about 1000 rounds of .351sl ammo that appears to be in very good condition.

I have dated the gun as manufactured in 1909.

Mike Irwin
March 7, 2007, 09:58 AM
No one can give a safety assessment over the internet. In order for a gun to be judged safe or not it has to be examined by a competent gunsmith.

IF the gun is in sound mechanical shape there would be no problem using it.

James K
March 7, 2007, 05:09 PM
The foreend can be repaired in several ways, including simply forcing construction glue into the cracks. But I don't think anyone who would do the repair would guarantee it past the first shot. You will probably contact a gunsmith, as Mike recommended, and while you are there, see if he or someone he knows will make one. They are not terribly complicated, but there is a lot of routing out to be done (which is why they crack). IMHO, unless the price is extreme, replacing the foreend would be worth it as those old rifles are very collectible and increasing in value all the time.

Jim

johnbt
March 8, 2007, 10:20 AM
Is it 1000 rounds of the original ammo in the boxes?

I've seen it go for $50 and $60 and up a box.

"JoeSalter.com - Listings for Winchesters Items6588, Winchester 351 Ammo, $95.00," - SOLD

John

Mike Irwin
March 8, 2007, 12:09 PM
I've very successfully repaired forearms on shotguns using accraglass.

I use a Dremel tool to route out the inside of the crack and make "keys" into which I can put the accraglass.

Think a drill hole on either side of the crack with a line connecting them, looking sort of like a dumbell.

Drawing the cracked sections together so that the crack is as small as possible can be a REAL pain in the butt, though.

Scorch
March 8, 2007, 01:41 PM
Just like Mike said, Acra-Glas is the best bet. Wash the forearm in washing soda then let it dry for 3-4 days or more. Take a little bit of wood out of the inside right around the crack. Clean all the joining surfaces. Coat the joining surfaces with the AcraGlas. Soak a piece of glass cloth in the AcraGlas and lay it on the inside of the forearm when you glass it together. Clamp it and let it set for 24 hours. Trim off the excess resin. Done.

kingudaroad
March 8, 2007, 02:46 PM
Johnbt, yes the ammo is packed in original factory boxes with only one box not completely full. Most of it is Remington 180 gr soft point "kleenbore". There is also a couple of real old looking boxes of winchester 180 gr.

I guess the ammo is probably worth more than the gun, but I can't see myself selling either.

Thanks for the forend info. Now if I can figure out how to get that sucker off the gun.

It also came with an old leather scabbard that undoubtedly rode on the side of a horse. Its really beat up and very cool looking.

James K
March 8, 2007, 07:25 PM
That forearm tip (band) is held on by the forearm tip nut. That in turn is kept from turning by a spring and plunger arrangement a bit like the magazine cap on a Browning Auto 5, with detents in it. Supposedly the tip nut was to be turned only hand tight, but most are now tight and you may need a special spanner to move it. The spanner is tough to describe and I don't have one to picture, but it is sort of a half-moon with a handle that goes around the nut and has a tip that fits into the slots.

Anyway, once the nut is off, the forearm tip can be pulled forward, but don't try to separate the spring and operating sleeve. Just pull everything forward and the forearm should pull forward and down off the action.

Edited to add: You MIGHT be able to use a pair of M14 flash suppressor nut pliers if you have them for a tool to turn that forearm tip nut. I have never tried them but they look about right.

Jim

kingudaroad
March 11, 2007, 01:11 PM
Thanks Jim, I got it off with a peice of rubber and vise grips as it was almost finger tight. I am surprised to see it is not a solid peice of wood, but just a hollow 1/8" to 1/4" peice that wraps around a heavy metal forearm. No wonder it cracks so easy. I am going to try and glue it. One edge is cracked all the way front to back and is now a separate piece.

Unfortnatley I was too stupid to not take the spring out of the plunger and now am having trouble getting it back in.

edited to say:I finally got the spring and plunger back together. You just gotta hold your tongue right.

James K
March 11, 2007, 10:19 PM
That "heavy metal forearm" is not a forearm. It is an extension of the bolt and provides the massive weight needed for a blowback action to contain the pressure of the .351 WSL cartridge. It slams back and forth with every shot, inducing interesting vibrations in the whole gun. The other guns in that series are made the same way, with the bolt of the Model 1910 in .401 WSL being even more massive.

But you see why that forearm is even thinner than those seen on shotguns like the Browning A5. That makes them easier to crack and harder to repair. Mike has the best idea and that would probably work, but the tolerances are close and there is not a lot of room for repair work.

I cheerfully admit that I am not a woodworker, and never even played one on TV, so I can't help you futher on repairs. Good luck.

Jim

Mike Irwin
March 12, 2007, 11:23 AM
"It is an extension of the bolt"

Crap, I forgot about that.

Jim's right, the tolerances are VERY close. You'll have to be very careful.

It's entirely possible that the forearm cracked because it warped a little bit and during firing the bolt extension smacked it. That would show up as gouging or rubbing in the wood, though.

Also, Gun Parts Corp. up in New York occasionally has the forearms in stock. They don't right now, but show a list price of $52.

kingudaroad
March 17, 2007, 03:11 PM
Well I got the forend glued together with gorilla glue, did a little shaping so it would fit and headed to the range. The gun fires well and is very accurate easily shooting sub 2" groups at 50 yards with me unsure about the how to work the sights.

The fore end held together fine but lost its original shape in the glueing process. This caused the bolt extension to rub a little on the front of the forearm, slowing its momentum enough that it prevented the ejection and loading. I could actually shift the foreend around a little bit since some of the end pieces that hold it on the gun were missing. So I maneuvered it to where the bolt extension could clear and it worked like a charm.

I have now ordered a new foreend from Great American Gunstocks for $45.

Thanks for your help guys. This is a very fun gun to shoot and I believe will function like new with the new foreend.

James K
March 17, 2007, 03:39 PM
Thanks for that info. I didn't know there were new stocks for that gun being made by anyone.

Jim

toolman846
April 1, 2007, 04:13 PM
If you want to preserve the valuable original-box ammo, but still shoot the gun, reloading is a viable alternative, and not that complicated. Cases are available relatively resaonably from a few sources, and dies are also available. I got mine used off Ebay by just keeping my eyes open, a number of years ago. My Model 1907 is in excellent shape. I paid $120 for it, as a used gun, at a large gun store back in the '70's.

For what you could get for a couple of the origianl boxes of ammo, you could come by everything you would need to get into reloading, if you aren't already, used on Ebay. I bought my last box of factory ammo back in the '70's, for $11.44, at a large department store. They had three more boxes, but I didn't have any more money on me at the time.

prestigegunleather
July 29, 2009, 04:57 PM
to all,

i'm fully aware that this is a really old thread, BUT may i offer a suggestion for repairing such cracks (a repair that will be stronger than the wood was when it was new)???
(NOTE: i know a LOT more about repairing cracked wood, being a furniture repairman/refinisher/antique dealer, than i do about firearms.)

STEPS to permanently repair the crack(IF you follow these as written it may crack someplace else but NOT where you repaired it!!!):
1.remove the "wood covering for the bolt extension" (sometimes called the "fore-end"),
2.sand the INSIDE of "the tube", so that it is now LOOSE but NOT sloppy,
3.wet it out with UN-thinned, slow-set, epoxy resin/hardner mixture,
4.lay a suitably sized piece of fiberglass cloth in the wet epoxy
&
5.then "fill the weave" of the cloth with THICKENED epoxy.

AFTER the epoxy repair is THROUGHLY dried (at least 24 hours), sand the repaired area to fit the "bolt extension" & reassemble the rifle.

yours, PG