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Boogyman
February 16, 2007, 12:30 PM
Did anyone here ever participate in a canned hunt? I`m a big fan myself, one shot one kill hehe. I`ve heard that Rock `n Roll legend Ted Nugend offers excellent hunting trips on his property.

Desertfox
February 16, 2007, 04:05 PM
The name is Nugent and he does not offer canned hunts.
No, heck no to the canned hunts! Not my thing!
Good luck finding someone to chat with this about, if that is your agenda.

FirstFreedom
February 16, 2007, 06:08 PM
First, DEFINE "canned" hunt please.

banditt007
February 16, 2007, 06:09 PM
might as well catch it in a trap, walk up and shoot it. Thats about as much of a hunt as the canned hunt.

canned hunts are retarded. the ONLY time i can see them is when the area is fenced in, but is THOUSANDS of acres of property. such as buffalo hunts since they do not want them wandering away since they are valuable. But with thousands of acres it might as well not be fenced. even so to each his own, but i think canned hunts arent hunts at all. THey are called guaranteed kills :barf:

BIGR
February 16, 2007, 06:38 PM
Canned hunts are for lazy people and requires very little hunting skills. I believe in fair chase.

RedneckFur
February 16, 2007, 07:49 PM
Canned hunt? *shakes head* No, thats sick. You should respect the animal enough to at least give it fair chase.

rem33
February 16, 2007, 08:54 PM
You guys mean canned shoot don't you?
If the animal is enclosed in a small area, it's not hunting.
You may pull the triger and kill it and have your "trophy" mounted but it is not hunting.
If it has 10's of thousands of acres to escape into, that's different I believe.

buck460XVR
February 17, 2007, 09:39 AM
You guys mean canned shoot don't you?
If the animal is enclosed in a small area, it's not hunting.


.............not only that, but your quarry is a farm raised domesticated animal. May as well be shootin' a cow.

Art Eatman
February 17, 2007, 03:28 PM
Boogyman, you'll find that those who consider themselves hunters and not mere butchers have a very strong consideration for ethics. This carries over into daily life, not just in hunting.

Hunting laws/rules/regulations derived from input from hunters. The idea is to have something to hunt and eat, forever. Species health, bountiful populations of game. Billions of private-sector dollars per year go into the effort. We put our money where our mouths are: "The good of the species".

It was hunters who pushed for the excise taxes on sporting goods; the money goes to the wildlife agencies of the states, pro-rated by the number of licenses sold. The 11% tax has accumulated into billions of dollars, through the years. Eco-tourists and birders get a free ride on hunters' money.

The only known "name" who has participated in a cheater's style of "canned hunt", of shooting an animal in a small, fenced enclosure is Jimmy Houston of the Outdoor Channel program.

Just a few facts for your consideration...

Art

Capp35
February 18, 2007, 09:48 AM
Is he trying to be funny? (a joke?)

Art Eatman
February 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
Capp35, you never know what sort of thing will show up on the Errornet. The anonymity thing attracts the Keyboard Kommandos. Easiest for me is to play it straight, at least briefly. While I'm quite happy to drop the hammer, I'm in no hurry to do so.

:), Art

trooper3385
February 18, 2007, 01:03 PM
What don't you do some more practice at the range and make one shot kills on real hunts. HEHE Thats why it is called hunting, not killing. I have some nice trophies on the wall and I've had to hunt for all of them. I wouldn't get much pride and satisfaction out of shooting a trophy animal out of a corral. As the others have said, canned hunts are for lazy people that don't want to put the effort into it. They just want something to put on the wall to show off to there friends and make up some great story on how much they had to work to get it.

dustoff
February 18, 2007, 02:20 PM
Can someone please give a good definition of a canned hunt. Is a canned hunt simply a hunt on a fenced in property where the owner tells the client if he does not kill he does not pay or do you also consider the size of the fenced off area. How much area is approopriate.

I hunt pheasants on hunting preserves(not fenced areas) here in PA. The birds are stocked the day before the hunt and we use a guide and dog that the preserve provides. I pay for the number of birds stocked not how many I shoot(I have never got all the birds I paid for). Is this considered a canned hunt by anyone. I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Here in PA the PGC release pheasants every year but without a dog you can forget about getting any. These are hunts I spend with my father and brothers and we have a great time.

DesertFox, I am especially interested in hearing what you consider to be a canned hunt. You say Uncle Ted doesn't offer canned hunts. His hunting preserve offers hog hunts in Michigan(From his website below).

Join Ted for a Hunt Adventure of a Lifetime on the
"Ted Nugent Porkslam"
Sunrize Acres offers monster trophy Russian & Austrian HogBeasts! Primo Adventure Guaranteed! Join us won't you

Do you think there are Russian and Austrian Boar running around Michigan and he simply goes with you on the hunt. NO - Ted has them fenced into some area - 340 acres worth(http://www.tednugent.com/ranch/other_hunts.shtml).

I think that we should reailze that although some of us do not want to hunt in fenced in areas there are others who do not have the time to scout for animals and then hunt them. For these people hunting preserves can be the answer. There are also areas where certain animals do not naturally live. For instance here in PA we do not have a hog hunting season. I would like to hunt a hog but do not have the time to travel to a state that does, should I feel bad about going onto a 500 acre preserve to harvest one? I have only ever hunted birds on a preserve but I feel nothing is wrong with the people who hunt on one for any animal. I think the term canned hunt is a term Anti-hunters use to make hunting seem like something bad. If we argue amongst ourselves about these hunts we are only helping the Antis. They will use us against each other to get these preserves banned and once we start taking away one persons right to hunt the way they want to our right to hunt in our own manner will be in danger as well. Those people who don't want to hunt on preserves don't have to, but we should not look down on those who do. These people are sportsmen just like everyone else here and have the right to hunt in any legal manner they want.

Capp35
February 18, 2007, 06:36 PM
Why don't you just go kill a cow in the pasture.
Same thing.

Fat White Boy
February 18, 2007, 11:49 PM
Dustoff- i don't think anyone considers a birdhunt on a preserve to be a canned hunt. The birds are free to flush, their normal defense mechanism.

I think they are referring to any large mammal that is not allowed to escape. Some places will put an elk, or an exotic animal into a small fenced in area and the shooter goes in and shoots it.

Art Eatman
February 19, 2007, 11:39 AM
dustoff, there have been two "canned hunt" styles of which I know.

One involved old-age zoo animals. African lions, e.g. In one videotaped incident, the "hunter" stood by as the lion was released from a cage. The lion was not really able to do much more than stagger around. The hunter shot the lion from a distance of maybe ten or fifteen feet.

This happened in Texas. The uproar from the hunting community and (naturally) the animal lovers led the legislature to outlaw such travesties.

In Arkansas some years back, hunts were advertised where deer were held in fenced areas of as small as three acres, with little cover. "Guaranteed kill" and all that.

More recently, Jimmy Houston was videotaped as being involved with a deal where deer were released into a small pen. The deer had been drugged to the point of near-stagger. The photography angles of the regular photographers were set up to make it look like a fair-chase hunt. We've had threads on this, last year. Use the Search feature. If not here, then at TheHighRoad.org. Anyway, it's all part of court testimony in--IIRC--Wisconsin.

Art

FirstFreedom
February 19, 2007, 12:14 PM
Until the OP (boogeyman) defines what HIS definition of "canned hunt" is, this thread has little to no point in taking comments, since the definition can vary widely. To some people, hunting game in a 20,000 acre high fence area is a "canned hunt". What exactly do you mean by that boogeyman?

dustoff
February 19, 2007, 02:54 PM
Art,
what you have described I don't consider hunting. These two "hunts" where little more than paid killings. The people who took part where not hunters and since I don't consider this hunting it is hard for me to call it a canned hunt. I guess the definition of a canned hunt was not and still hasn't been clearly defined here. I in no way endorse what you have described. I do however have no problem with those people who visit game preserves and hunt the many hundreds to thousands of acres they have fenced in. These preserves are providing a valid service to those who live in more populated area and cannot spend a large amount of time in the woods. I think that the danger in the term canned hunt is that many people lump together lots of hunts into that category.

oldbillthundercheif
February 19, 2007, 03:05 PM
I have hunted escaped "domesticated" pheasants a few times...

A family friend raises them for upscale restaurants but they are sneaky birds and smarter than you would think. A good number of them escape to the surrounding cornfields every year and must be dealt with by men with shotguns. I have happily participated in this activity many times.

I don't think this quite meets the standards of a "canned hunt", but it is the hunting of non-wild animals so maybe I'm guilty?

roy reali
February 27, 2007, 03:13 PM
I was a member of a pheasant club when I lived in California. More then one person has questioned this. They want to know how I can hunt these types of birds. They would suggest that I hunt "wild' birds.

I'll take hunting wild birds over club birds any day of the week. But living in California I would ask the person making the comment to suggest where I might find such wild birds. There are some private ranches that do have a population of wild pheasants. Now to get persmission to hunt there is another story. Your odds are the same as finding an honest politician. In fact, I'll accept any invitation to hunt on private property.

California does have some parcels of land dedicated to public hunting. I'll give anyone a bottle of their favorite adult beverage if they find any game bird in them.

Yes, I agree that hunting planted pheasants might not be true sport. But sometimes a hunter has little choice.

MEDDAC19
February 28, 2007, 09:42 AM
dustoff

You don't have to travel to another state for hog hunting. The PGC has stated that hogs are not game, and are not regulated by them, this said, they do advocate the shooting and killing of them whenever you get the chance. The reason for this stand is that there are hogs roaming the hills of PA and they are successfully reproducing.

Due to many hog hunting preserves going out of business and releasing their little piggies, there are many areas now in PA that you will find populations of hogs that can be hunted. You will have to do your homework to find them, but they are here to stay unfortunately.

This Fall-Winter there were several successful hog hunts conducted in Bradford and Susquehanna counties. A check with some of the Amish farmers in Bradford county will probably give you some places to start. There were several hunting preserves in Tioga county that have released Russian boar and razorbacks, so this county should also be a place to checkout.

I'm sure if you contact the PGC you will be able to find other areas in the state that the hogs are becoming a problem. The good thing about the hogs, (not that having them here is good), is that since they are a domesticated animal, the PGC has no authority over them and they can be hunted without a license and at any time of the year.

You will also be able to hunt them with semi-automatic rifles as long as there is no legal big game in season while you use them. I know that there are hogs in the Pocono region but gaining access to much of the private land there is difficult.

I also hunt with my Weimaraner over stocked birds and don't consider this a canned hunt.

rem33
February 28, 2007, 02:56 PM
I have seen planted pheasants you had to kick at to make them fly. To me that is not hunting. Buddy of mine reached down a rung one's neck once he was so frustrated with the whole mess. Maybe it is different in other areas, I don't know.

One of the elk ranches with a link to it I have posted on the canned elk post is only 500 acres. Now do you suppose that is 500 just for the elk? Or the house and out buildings too? No matter really, unless it is very uneven you could stand in the middle and take your pick.

One elk ranch I know of not to far from me is 2000 or so acres. I have seen the place many times. That 2000 includes the house, out buildings and several different pens of elk, I feel sure, you can see as you drive by. I don't call that hunting in any since of the word.

I had a chance to shoot a buffalo couple of years ago for $400 in a pen. In a way I wish I had. I would have came out OK on meat and a nice skull and had the hide tanned. With maybe $1000 or less in the whole mess by the time I was done. but it would have been what I would have called a shoot for the hide, skull and meat, not a hunt. Maybe I coulda used my black powder and wore buckskins and took pictures,,,, gimme a break. I do like Buffalo meat though.

I eat beef they are killed in a pen. You want to go and shoot animals in a pen I have no problem with that, just be humane as you can about it but don't call it hunting it is a shoot, or kill not a hunt!

dustoff
February 28, 2007, 03:11 PM
MEDDAC,
After my last post I looked into the population of wild hogs here in PA and I found that hogs have been reported in my county and the counties around me. I will be doing more research and then I will start my search for a wild group that I can hunt. As you suggested I will be contacting the PGC to see if they have any info on where to find the hogs.

Rem,
You stated that the ranches you have seen are not large enough for the animals to be fairly hunted. How much property do you consider to be enough?

rem33
February 28, 2007, 03:34 PM
Rem,
You stated that the ranches you have seen are not large enough for the animals to be fairly hunted. How much property do you consider to be enough

Partly that would depend on the terrain, and the game your hunting. but for big game lets start with several thousand acres at least with plenty hills and cover.
I used to live a few miles from where a herd of elk bedded down almost daily. When hunters would get into them I could at times watch some of them hide in a large stand of trees up behind my place. Elk unlike deer, can and will at times travel a long durn ways, several miles, if being hunted.

I do however have no problem with those people who visit game preserves and hunt the many hundreds to thousands of acres they have fenced in

Hundreds of acres for elk? You might as well just put them in a pen and shoot em. Ya don't have to pack em out that way. But then if your buying a animal the outfit will usually gut, skin and carry it out for you. Probably cut and wrap it too or take it to someone that will. To me that is not hunting it's killing.If thats what you wanna do and pay for it I don't care, just don't claim to me your a elk hunter with your fine trophy. To me thats no more hunting than the guy in the slaughter house that kills the cow. It needs to be a large enough area to become " fair chase", or to me it isn't hunting in any since of the word..

dustoff
March 1, 2007, 09:44 AM
They are canned hunts and should be against the law.

Rem this is from another one of your posts. So when you say

To me that is not hunting it's killing.If thats what you wanna do and pay for it I don't care

you clearly have an opinion about what others are doing. I am not saying that it is a good thing to hunt on these preserves, but I would consider it if I had no other options. I was more than willing to hunt a hog on one of these ranches here in PA until I found out that PA has a small population of wild hogs. I think though that your declaring that these hunts should be against the law is a dangerous statement. Like I said earlier when hunters begin to help ban certain types of hunting it will only be a matter of time until all hunting is banned. You may say I don't think of it as hunting so I am not trying to ban a type of hunting, the antis do consider it hunting so you will be helping them anyway. If you don't like these preserves don't visit them, just please don't support the Antis by joining in the fight against them.

rem33
March 1, 2007, 11:15 AM
Seems I have touched a nerve out there, and maybe I was a little rough.

Especially on the bird hunters, If birds are raised in the right environment and turned lose they have the option to fly away, they are free. If raised in large pens and not to accustomed to man then turned lose I would call that hunting.

Go take a look at one of the web sites I posted. Search a few pages and you'll find a picture of a guy feeding several bull elk by hand one elks head is in the feed bucket. Now tell me shooting that animal is hunting. That is no more hunting that shooting the farmers cow, same thing this guy is a elk farmer or rancher take your pick. Go shoot it just don't then tell me you hunted it.

If you don't like these preserves don't visit them, just please don't support the Antis by joining in the fight against them.

Elk should not be put in a pen and shot in a area where they live naturally. If that supports the anti's in your opinion that's up to you I feel differently about it.
Elk are such majestic animals IMHO that to shoot them in a pen, where less than a mile away I have seen wild elk, just doesn't set well with me, and should be outlawed in areas where they live wild.

dustoff
March 1, 2007, 12:08 PM
No nerve touched here. The only preserves I hunt are the bird preserves and here in PA all pheasants are pen raised and stocked. I just hate to see people trying to take away the freedoms other people enjoy. Some people make a living by selling "hunts" on their property. They consider it hunting, you may not (in some instances I don't consider it hunting), but these people are doing nothing illegal. What the are doing should not be made illegal.

That is no more hunting that shooting the farmers cow

Would you have an issue with me paying a farmer to shoot his cow. The farmer owns the animal (just like the preserves own their animals), and as such should be able to do with it as they please.

Elk are such majestic animals IMHO that to shoot them in a pen, where less than a mile away I have seen wild elk, just doesn't set well with me

Are you basing your opinion simply on Elk, or do you feel the same about the less majestic ones, say hogs.

America - Home of the Free (Unless of course what your doing just doesn't set well with Rem). :D

rem33
March 1, 2007, 02:14 PM
Would you have an issue with me paying a farmer to shoot his cow

If it makes you happy go for it. Wouldn't be hunting to me but you have your beliefs , I have mine.

Unless of course what your doing just doesn't set well with Rem

It's become personal, I try not to go there, I believe this has become pointless and that my responses are finished in this thread.

Have a good day sir.

Art Eatman
March 1, 2007, 03:02 PM
dustoff, maybe the back-and-forth might have to do with how the word "hunt" is used?

For me, any hunt area oughta be big enough, and with enough cover, that finding an animal requires some effort. Further, the animal should be able to get to cover if alarmed. To me, that's where "fair chase" comes in to the deal.

Omitting hunting from a fixed stand, I've seen some areas where hundreds of acres are needed for my viewpoint. But, I've hunted in some thick "jungle" where a few acres are enough that Bambi can sit back and laugh.

I"m all in favor of the whole guided hunt thing; many people don't have the time and expertise for solo efforts. But when I see an ad for "guaranteed success", that takes the whole "hunting" thing out of the deal.

Call me a romantic, maybe. To me, the hunt-package is a lot more important than the kill. BSing around a campfire, camp cooking, being with like-minded friends. Without the cameraderie, it's not all that much fun.

I dunno. Everybody's got their own deal going, I guess...

Art

dustoff
March 1, 2007, 10:05 PM
Art I don't disagree with what you say. I would not hunt if I was guaranteed a kill every time. I don't take part in these canned hunts, I simply feel that we should let the people who choose to hunt/kill in this manner continue to do so. The animals are raised by the ranch to be killed by its clients. This is no different than the farmer who raises a cow with the intent of killing it for the meat. Personally I hunt with family and friends and I value that much more than I do the kill. I have had many days hunting where I know we where being much to loud to even see an animal but sometimes those are the best days.

It's become personal, I try not to go there, I believe this has become pointless and that my responses are finished in this thread.

Rem if I insulted you I apoligize, That comment was meant as light hearted humor, note the smiley at the end. I should hope that you don't think it was a personal attack. I am a person who likes to joke around and I realize that sometimes a typed message can't accurately represent what the author meant. Again I am sorry, I did not mean to insult, I meant only to provide what I felt was a little humor.

With that being said I will agree to disagree with Rem and I to will bow out of this thread. I think my point has been stated and any other responses would also be pointless.

rrj731
March 10, 2007, 05:39 PM
how easilly Boogyman has baited people into a controversial topic. if you were fish , he would have you cleaned by now. I'm sure he got a good chuckle out of it

Charles S
March 10, 2007, 08:23 PM
While I have no interest in responding to Boogyman, there are a couple of points I would like to address.

Call me a romantic, maybe. To me, the hunt-package is a lot more important than the kill. BSing around a campfire, camp cooking, being with like-minded friends. Without the cameraderie, it's not all that much fun.

Art, that is truly one of the great pleasures in life. Those aspect, to me are as important as the hunt.

Not to say I don't often hunt alone. I do, but I love to be with friends, to camp, to cook, to hunt in a group with the camaraderie.

They are canned hunts and should be against the law.

Just because I don't agree with someone philosophically does not mean I want to outlaw what they are doing. I personally think that is a current problem in America.

I would not want to participate in a canned hunt, but I also don't want them outlawed.

If someone chooses to hunt a penned elk, then IMHO that is their perogitive and it is not my job to outlaw that. If I can educate them, well that is something else.

I personally don't think that hunting with inline muzzle loaders, modern optics and having the capability of 200+ yard shots really is following the original intent of muzzle load hunting. I do not, however, want to outlaw the use of inlines.

Hunters and shooters should support one another, educate each other. Not try to outlaw activities we don't like, don't understand, or don't like.

Mr. Zumbo's blog is an excellent example of the problems I am talking about.

Art Eatman
March 11, 2007, 08:24 AM
To repeat: A "canned hunt" is ONLY that hunt where the animal has no chance of evading/avoiding the hunter.

Hunting from a stand near bait or using a guide is not a canned hunt. This is a legal definition, remember. Let's not get sloppy with word usage.

Art

GIrine
March 16, 2007, 10:11 PM
Hi Forum , New guy. I have spent the last 30 years or so living on the property line of a good sized shooting preserve, here on eastern long island. This owner raises ringnecks,mallards, chukars. Some of the shoots are pretty challenging. That said, please put the emphasis on the word shoot, as in pheasant shoot, duck shoot. They dont push the hunt word to much.Makes it all seem OK. More fun and better tasting than skeet.