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View Full Version : Some thoughts about the coyote...and the cat.


banditt007
February 12, 2007, 02:31 AM
So here we are, and we complain that people should keep their cats indoors only, since they are almost 'perfect killing machines' to the local baby rabbits, song birds, and other birds, ect. Infact a state (i forget which) i beleive tried to pass a law that you must kill ferral cats while hunting, but it didnt go through.

Then we have the coyote, which finds an outdoor cat a nice meal! And by some research, it seems to be very common 'easy' meal.(lots of people complaining about outdoor cats missing and seeing coyotes in the area.) Which is good, except he also hunts ground birds, rabbits and the like. However the coyote probably isn't after song birds like the cat.

Also the coyote actually EATS what he kills. Unlike the cat, the cat may eat it, but there is a good chance it just kills 'for fun'

So i'm just looking to start some conversation, on what everyones thoughts are on the coyote vs the cat vs the damage done to other wildlife. Especially since coyotes seem to just be shot, and left. And thought about as 'pests' meanwhile these pests, also are eating the cats. sometimes the fur is used, most times not. VERY rarely do people seem to eat them, seems 'taboo' though the ones that do, swear it is great meat, i have no reason not to beleive them.

dirty habit
February 12, 2007, 03:16 AM
Dont like cats...Love my silenced 10/22....it also doesnt like cats

Art Eatman
February 12, 2007, 08:13 AM
I really doubt that coyotes seek out cats, first, before eating whatever is easiest by opportunity. And, face it, cats are pretty good at avoiding being eaten. It's not as if they're easy.

Coyotes find cats, okay. Might make a kill. But coyotes can't climb trees...

So, as I occasionally run across a feral cat out in the boonies, I'll kill it. I don't mess much with coyotes, although I'll do a little from time to time to sorta hold the numbers down for the benefit of "my" quail. :)

Art

john in jax
February 12, 2007, 11:34 AM
I don't want yotes or cats on the WMA (public land) where I hunt. I'll put 'em down if I stumble across 'em but I'm not going out of my way to hunt one.

Funny that this should pop up - - I don't ever remember seeing a house cat in the woods, but saw one yesterday afternoon while hog hunting. It took me a minute to talk myself into putting it down - - but it never let me get within shotgun range.

OJ
February 12, 2007, 11:47 AM
Charley really likes cats -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/DOGS/DOGHISMAN-1.jpg

He thinks they taste a little like rabbit !;)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/DOGS/CharleylookingBIG.jpg

Though he keeps looking - we haven't seen any here for a while. For some reason, our neighbor decided to convert her "roam free" cats to "indoor" cats. Go figure!!!

Even our local coyotes have lost interest in coming in our back yard - they just stand outside the fence aand stare - until Charley goes over and gives them his message - NIMBY!!!

:D

Mossy00
February 12, 2007, 11:49 PM
I have cats and dogs, and I'd put a bullet in anyone I saw killing either for pleasure.

Blacktail_Slayer
February 12, 2007, 11:59 PM
I we dont have problems with feral cats here, they tend to stay in the barns on farms. But a lot of people have pet cats, and there is an extreme number of birds round here anyways, it just gives me a better angle to approch somone about hunting coyotes on their land, "I see you have cats, ya know coyotes love em, I can help ya with that..." :D So yea

OJ
February 13, 2007, 12:33 AM
Mossy00 I have cats and dogs, and I'd put a bullet in anyone I saw killing either for pleasure.

I was 15 years old (1941) before I decided to do something in life besides what I'd done all of it until then - be a cowboy. We had cats (at least close to feral) that were helpful keeping the mouse population in check and dogs to run coyotes down since we felt those coyotes were a threat to our calves. That wasn't in town. This picture was taken in about 1934 showing my "trophies" I took with the .22 single shot rifle I got for my 6th birthday. My coyote gun was an old Winchester 94 in Winchester 32 Special.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/Jackatage6WhitmanNE.jpg

I have no desire to shoot either cats or dogs but do have some problem in that there are leash laws requiring dogs not be allowed loose on public streets (don't get me wrong - I'm in favor of those laws) and dogs are required to be up to date on vaccinations so they can be licensed.

I feel strongly that cats should be subject to the same restrictions but, for reasons not clear, I'm not aware of any locales where that's true. I would think cat owners would be in favor of giving their cats the same protections dogs get amd not just allow them to roam free to face all kinds of danger - such as being run over by cars or being the victim of predators.

That shouldn't be mistaken for wanting to shoot them. No offense intended.

rem33
February 13, 2007, 01:24 AM
Mossy00 I have cats and dogs, and I'd put a bullet in anyone I saw killing either for pleasure.

Do you sir have any idea what kind of that statement is? To say you would shoot another human over the life of any cat or dog? I think you should take a good look at that statement and think about it bit..
I like my dog a awful lot and if you were to kick and/or severely injure him in front of me especially for no reason I might break your jaw, but to shoot/ kill??? Put a bullet into someone?? That my man is another thing all together, and has no place in this gun forum IMHO or any other place for that matter.

Moderators please delete my statement if you feel it is inappropriate thank you.

Jseime
February 13, 2007, 01:28 AM
I shoot the tom cats that roam around the countryside especially if they have long hair jeez i hate those things. Ive even been known to walk out the door with a loaded 597 remington and control the farm cat population.

Coyotes too pi** me off we have waaaaay too many of them and Im not afraid to give em a round of .270 from time to time.

Silent Bob
February 13, 2007, 02:04 PM
I think this thread exists more to bait cat haters than promote any meaningful discussion about coyotes.

Many serial killers got their start by torturing and killing house cats, and I have to wonder about many on these online gun forums who brag about the pleasure they obtain from killing cats.

Art Eatman
February 13, 2007, 04:23 PM
I really doubt "pleasure" is the real point to shooting feral cats in the boonies. I can't speak for folks in town.

House cats are an introduced, non-native predator which kill from pure instinct as well as for food. Whatever pleasure I might derive from killing one is the same pleasure I get from any clean kill or any small group on a target: Satisfaction at doing something correctly.

As near as I can tell, this attitude is the same for most who are regular outdoorsmen, whether city-dweller or farmer/rancher.

Separately, I fully understand anger because somebody hurts one's pet. But it's Keyboard Kommando BS to yowl and howl about shooting that person, or else a previously unrealized desire to enrich defense attorneys and spend lengthy periods of time in the Graybar Hotel.

Art

rem33
February 13, 2007, 05:01 PM
I don't believe it's "pleasure" either. The only cat I remember shooting that I was happy about was a wild one that had been killing my folks chicks for some time and I finally was able to catch him.
I sat Saturday out in the boonies and watched a coyote so intent on hunting he didn't notice the pickup or when it was turned it off. Which is highly unusual as coyotes are very alert and never hang around at 150 yards or less and let you watch them. At least around here they don't. It would have been legal to shoot him and I had my 223 Contender along but it was much more enjoyable watching him that it would have been shooting him. I doubt many if any actual hunters get pleasure from killing.

I don't want to be misunderstood here I have dispatched plenty of critters, varmints and vermin, but it doesn't reach the realm of pleasure.

FrontSight
February 13, 2007, 06:05 PM
Rem33 - I have to agree - the killing is just the last part of it, often the saddest part. I know it's never given me pleasure to see something shake it's last shake, kick it's last kick, or to have to break the neck of a wounded animal. But the dinner sure makes up for all of it :D

sparkysteve
February 13, 2007, 08:32 PM
My .223 can't tell the difference. We have more coyotes that cats in my neck of the woods.

OJ
February 14, 2007, 12:59 AM
I have to confess - when I was in the 8 - 10 year old group, my younger sister was always bringing cats home that she would swear were toms. Somehow through some miracle, those toms had kittens. Also, somehow, it seemed to be my job (boys do the dirty work - girls don't) to "give them away" - which was impossible in our tiny community. I would end up having to "euthanize" them with my 22 rifle - a job I hated then and still gives me nightmares. Of all the dirty jobs I had to do, that was by far the worst.

I've been a hunter all my life but that was a long way from hunting and was traumatic to me then and still is when I think of it.

:barf: :mad:

Art Eatman
February 14, 2007, 04:31 PM
Well, OJ, you could have put them in a gunnysack and thrown them in the river. Although, I'm told that I got a trophy for longest distance for underwater swimming when I was a year or so old and my momma did that to me.

:D, Art

OJ
February 14, 2007, 05:45 PM
Well, OJ, you could have put them in a gunnysack and thrown them in the river. Although, I'm told that I got a trophy for longest distance for underwater swimming when I was a year or so old and my momma did that to me.

Well, that would have been preferable to me but we didn't have any rivers close to where we lived out in the country. As I stated, I've never been very fond of cats but the trauma I went through taking care of what should have been my sister's responsibility.:mad:

No 10 year old boy should be exposed to that trauma but, treatment was sexist at our house - I was even expected to go out and finish fights my sister started. At age 11, I worked on other ranches and at age 14, went away to Ag School - boarding school and worked other ranches in summer. Enlisted at age 17 (1943), West Point (1945), med school, more service time for Korea, Surgical training at the county hospital for Detroit, and, in 1960 - took up residence in another city.

It wasn't exactly sibling rivalry - more class war - but I never regretted leaving home at an early age. Kids of the past couple of generations returning home after college and even grad school boggle my mind.

Well, I've unloaded this (my problem) enough. This is the sibling relationship we have at our place.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/DOGS/CAMPINGDOGS.jpg

Camping in their King-sized bed in the Coleman folding trailer. Lest any think we're deprived, we have hot and cold running water, three way refrigerator, forced air furnace (thermostatically controlled), two cook stoves, and a portable generator to keep us in electricity and automatic switching propane tanks so we don't run out of gas unexpectedly.

LIFE IS GOOD!!:D

Mossy00
February 14, 2007, 08:46 PM
It's been well documented by psychologists that a hatred of felines means antipathy to the whole female sex or a frustation with the female sex. This is usually pretty relevant when you look at the people that say they "hate cats". Lions and big cats alike are symbols of sexual prowness, power and grace. Most who hate felines probably lack this. Debate it all you want, science doesn't lie-most of the time.

rem33
February 14, 2007, 09:16 PM
Boy that last one made me chuckle.
I had a cat I liked a lot, have been around cats that were ok and just fine with me, and some I'd just as soon weren't around at all.. Well I have known females I liked a lot and more and REALLY wanted them around me. and some I would just as soon were not around me at all.

OJ
February 15, 2007, 12:53 AM
It's been well documented by psychologists that a hatred of felines means antipathy to the whole female sex or a frustation with the female sex.

Boy that last one made me chuckle.


I certainly have to agree with the second quote. I graduated from medical school some 55 years ago and psychologists were giving us monumental amounts of psychobabble such as equating hating cats to antipathy of human females even then - and that only scratches the surface of the nonsense they try - and sometimes succeed - to educate us less informed types with - interestingly very frequently equating some activity of us mortals with some deep seated sexual thing relating to our past - our relationship with our mothers (Oedipus) for instance - and such drivel.

Personally, I think there may be an inverse relationship between the number of cats I disliked individually as pets as opposed to the very few human females I wasn't fond of (different than "antipathy").

Psychology is largely opinion arrived at in more ways than can be imagined and hardly qualifies as a "science" but, truth be known, we should be aware that real scientists lie to us regularly. Witness the decision last year of the AMA Journal now requiring all "scientists" publishing work regarding medication efficacy and dangers to reveal any financial arrangement they have with drug manufacturers. Even the AMA recognizes the impact and amount of frankly dishonest reporting - frequently motivated by things most physicians abhor.

As a group - I really don't like cats but, I've only known very few women I didn't like.

:rolleyes:

dirty habit
February 15, 2007, 03:23 AM
Id be wary of anyone who took pleasure in killing anything to be honest.
Wild/feral cats are a huge problem to native birds over here, they can dessimate an entire area in a very short time so no sympathy from me im afraid but if people want something to jump up and down about may as well clap your hands too and call it a starjump

Art Eatman
February 15, 2007, 10:42 AM
Well, let's don't get too sloppy with word usage. I enjoy hunting, for instance. A kill is satisfying, since that's part of why I'm out there with a gun. If one succeeds at an endeavor, one should be satisfied--last I heard. :) Moving from satisfaction to pleasure might involve the degree of difficulty; I dunno. I don't really care, either.

"Hate" is a much-overused word. It's been cheapened. Always remember that the word itself includes an element of fear--and I surely don't fear any feral cat.

Art

OJ
February 15, 2007, 12:42 PM
Well, let's don't get too sloppy with word usage. I enjoy hunting, for instance. A kill is satisfying, since that's part of why I'm out there with a gun. If one succeeds at an endeavor, one should be satisfied--last I heard. Moving from satisfaction to pleasure might involve the degree of difficulty; I dunno. I don't really care, either.


I'm sure there is near universal agreement with this - at least in those likely to be on this forum. The enjoyment of hunting is the act of hunting - which I'm sure all of us have experienced even if we didn't get any of the game we hunted. Killing the game we hunted just marked that as a successful hunt and has nothing to do with love of killing, per se.

Memories of trudging over those sandhills of western Nebraska in the 1930s with my dog hunting rabbits and prairie dogs will always be among the best of my childhood memories and I really don't remember what the percentage of times we were successful or weren't. They were some of the best days a boy can experience - believe me.;) (At least before I became aware of girls several years later).

:D :D

buzz_knox
February 15, 2007, 01:18 PM
It's been well documented by psychologists that a hatred of felines means antipathy to the whole female sex or a frustation with the female sex.

I would love to study this further. Could you please provide the citations to this research?

Mossy00
February 15, 2007, 03:24 PM
I read it online under the journal articles on my university's database. There's a ton of info online you can find through a google but I prefer peer reviewed journal articles over "credible" sources like wiki or other bull**** websites.

BUSTER51
February 15, 2007, 04:51 PM
mossy00,you may want to seek profesional help some time in the near future,you can't go around killing people for shooting animals.let the system deal with it.:D

biglabsrule
February 16, 2007, 11:12 AM
Seems strange to me we don't have wild cats in my area. The snow is at least six feet deep out there right now and I rarely see wild cats survive a winter without beeing aided by a cat lover. Maybe that's why I don't understand killing a cat, but I understand your reasoning.
I killed my first coyote this last november. I never had the hatred for them like most other hunters have. They always gave me a line like, " on shot you can get on a yote is a good shot" or "even if you can only wound it, it'll die eventualy" The only reason I killed this one is because I had such a clear shot on it, 25 yards away in the woods and no cover in the line of sight. One shot droped him. I admire the way a predator moves through the woods, I watched this yote for a few seconds before I took my shot, they do move gracefuly and I felt bad about being the one to end its life. I think predator animals get a realy bad rap, in my area of upstate NY the deer population has exploded and a lack of hunters and wolves isn't helping the problem. Course these are just my opinions on the matters at hand... carry on

Smoke Screen
February 16, 2007, 11:42 AM
Holy cow! Seriously??? I can't believe someone acutally said they'd shoot someone who shot a cat or dog!! You gotta be kidding me!! Some people need to marinate on their thoughts and think of the ramifications of such actions before they go opening up their yapper. You put that small of a price tag on a human life?? Na-uh. Not right. If someone shoots your animal, take them to court!

I would kill a feral cat anyday unless I felt it was doing some good. (ie lots of mice in the area) and would and do hunt coyotes on a regular basis. They're shifty and a hoot to hunt. :)

OJ
February 16, 2007, 06:10 PM
In the 1930s, major efforts were made to eradicate coyotes in the cattle ranching area (sandhills) of western Nebraska because ranchers thought coyotes were a threat to their calf population. Franklly, I was never convinced they were that much threat.

Now, coyotes are more crafty than the average animal and, while the population of them thinned, they prevailed. The efforts did produce an unbelievable increase in rabbit population, though, which I had no objection to and I did my best to solve that problem. This is me in 1934 doing my part to reduce the overpopulation of rabbits.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/Jackatage6WhitmanNE.jpg

My real goal in life, as the young cowboy I was, was to rope a coyote - I was pretty good at roping cattle and calves and horses - and coyotes were the ultimate challenge. They could dodge a small loop and jump through a large loop. My horse was fast and a good roping horse - however - continuing to strive for goals we never reach is one of those things that keep life interesting.

Also - fate sometimes looks after us in our best interests whether we like it or not. As many young cowboys that age were prone to do, I hadn't looked far enough ahead to know just what I would have done if I had been able to rope one and we didn't routinely carry sidearms or rifles. I suspect I would have had my hands full with a real problem - assuming my horse didn't buck my off and book, probably the best choice would have been to let the coyote go and hope to be able to follow him and get my rope back.

It was more than aerage fun, though. God looks after drunks, fools, and little cowboys.:D

:D

rem33
February 16, 2007, 09:14 PM
I think the only time I ever spend any time actively hunting cats was several years ago. Near where I lived there was a Wildlife Management Area. Controlled by Fish and Game. Signs are posted there and no one is allowed access between Feb. to July for birds to nest. There was only one house on the edge of that WMA where a old lady lived that was in the 80 to 90 year age group. She would put out feed to any and all cats that came around. It must have been a popular place to dump cats. On a snowy covered ground day I counted over 50 by her back door and my neighbor said he had counted over 70. Him, I and the boys from both households would go there to purposely shoot cats.
Finally F&G did everyone a favor and she was left with only a couple of cats or so.

Scorch
February 16, 2007, 10:34 PM
I admire the way a predator moves through the woods, I watched this yote for a few seconds before I took my shot, they do move gracefuly and I felt bad about being the one to end its life.
I kind of share that feeling. I gained a lot of respect for coyotes by hunting them for pelts in the early 1980s. Over 3 years, I shot about 200 coyotes for their pelts, and I learned a lot about them during that time. I understand why some folks hate them (they're terribly destructive on small livestock, for example), but a lot of the folks that are most adamant about killing them never owned livestock in the first place. My guess is that those folks think it makes them some kind of mountain man or some such BS if they can just shoot a coyote. I don't object to killing, but you ought to know the real reason why you are out to kill something.

Mossy00
February 16, 2007, 10:45 PM
I assume everyone here kills stray dogs too.

JohnKSa
February 16, 2007, 10:52 PM
I too would kill anyone who shot my cat.

But only because to do so they would have had to forcibly break into my home with a firearm and would therefore pose a mortal threat to me as defined by the deadly force laws of my state. ;)

In other words, while I care a great deal for my pet, it's not in any danger of being shot. In fact BECAUSE I care a great deal for my pet it's not in any danger of being shot.

Now, if I DIDN'T care about it I might let it roam freely where it could be shot, injured by wild animals, hit by cars, infected with various diseases from feral cats, become infested with parasites, etc.

It's always seemed a stretch to me that some people would have you believe that they care so little about their pet that they think nothing of exposing it to all these dangers and yet at the same time care so much for it that they would defend it even at the cost of a human life.I assume everyone here kills stray dogs too.Don't really know where you're going with this one.

For what it's worth, feral animals are feral animals in my book and they all get equal treatment within the law. But equating ferals with strays is not accurate.

Socrates
February 16, 2007, 11:09 PM
+1 John

Letting your cat outside is supposed to cut it from 9 lives to 4.5. How could you do that, if you really love your cat?

S

Fat White Boy
February 19, 2007, 07:37 PM
I would rather have quail, chukars, pheasants, etc., out in the woods than feral cats. I will shoot feral cats on sight when I am hunting. They are a plague on birds. If a dog has a collar on, I wouldn't shoot it.

Socrates
February 20, 2007, 12:37 PM
I respect anything that moves with such grace, and awareness. Think I'll let the others shoot cats, coyotes, and foxes. I do my hunting of those spieces with a camera:
http://i45.invalid-sanitized.localhost/albums/f99/Socrates28/FOX/foxclearpictureJacks121406002-1.jpg

This fox came straight across the golf course, at our house. He may have been eating food we had been leaving out for our friends outdoor cat, while they were on vacation. Crows scared him off, and also told me he was out and about. He took off, I got dressed, ran out, and at 140 yards took this picture from behind a tree. I moved to get a better shot, and, the fox bounded, in one bounce, into the woods, and was gone. We have a lot of deer, and some missing outdoor cats. Now I know why.

We also had a skunk in the house one night, and, a nice buck came up, and let my girlfriend pet him, over the porch rail. We have an area where deer like to feed at night, and it's fun hitting them with the 10k torch.

S

1911 fan
February 20, 2007, 12:50 PM
I pesonally don't much care for cats but i only kill to survive so unless i was gonna eat it:barf: or it was threatening me or a family member i really can't justify killin one.

MD_Willington
February 20, 2007, 09:41 PM
Our neighbour has feral cats, lots of them, they help keep the mice out of my house, the coyotes love the cats, they keep the number of cats down in our area, I've seen them (coyotes) run in town at night. The locals then cull the coyotes. It all seems to work out for everyone.

hj28rules
March 13, 2007, 12:28 AM
I love domesticated dogs and cats. It's the free-range feral hogs and ever-increasing coyote population here in North-West Texas that makes me want to lock and load.