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View Full Version : 6 gunshots and no police.


fixboot
February 10, 2007, 07:41 AM
I work the graveyard shift at a buisness at the end of my street. Around 2am I am standing outside on my smoke break and suddenly heard 6 rapid gunshots coming from down the street. Took me half a second to get 911 on the line and they said they would come down and check it out......the shots sounded close to my house so I called the girlfriend and had her load up the 870 and check all the doors and windows just in case. She heard them too and said they sounded like they were VERY close......an officer called me back moments later and had me describe in detail where I thought the shots had come from, asked me about any other noises ie, screeching tires, screaming, etc. etc. He said they had recived a few calls about it and would be in the area shortly.
I must have stood outside for an hour and I didnt see ONE cop roll down the street. NOT ONE. Girlfriend hadnt seen any either. This really bugs me and it strengthens my belief that people who rely soley on their local police force to "protect" them are morons. I have alot of respect for police and what they do but I think people need to be more realistic about cops abilities to "protect" them. What say you?
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/tcvonfeldt/policelite_e0.gif

Nortonics
February 10, 2007, 08:00 AM
It's historically been a problem trying to determine whether that was a gun shot or not, and where it came from.

Here in Minneapolis they just installed a system that has been highly successful in other cities already - ShotSpotter. Although this won't help with your issue, wouldn't it have been great if it were in place:

http://www.shotspotter.com/

Watch this video - it impressively explains the system:

http://www.shotspotter.com/news/videoclips/ShotSpotter%20Tech%20Closeup%20512k.wmv

The results are in for a new crime-fighting tool.
"We want the word out on the street to be if you fire a gun in
Minneapolis, you're going to get caught," said Minneapolis city
councilor Gary Schiff.
City leaders point to the early success of ShotSpotter, a system
that uses cameras and sound sensors to pinpoint exactly where
a gun is fired.
"The way it used to work is someone would hear gunshots and
call 911 and 911 operators would put dots on a map and try to
figure out where it happened," said Schiff. "Officers would
simply drive up and down the alley looking for something. Today we know exactly the locations of where the gun was
fired, within a couple feet, and we're able to send people to that location and make an arrest even quicker."
The system has been on-line, covering two square miles in south Minneapolis, since the end of December.
In that time, gun shots have triggered the sensors 69 times. Police have arrested six people, recovered two guns and
a stolen car. Each case started with a gun shot heard by ShotSpotter.
"ShotSpotter is allowing us to respond to shots fired, within a minute of any one of those calls that we're getting," said
Minneapolis Police Chief Tim Dolan.
Since ShotSpotter was installed, 911 calls about gun shots - calls from actual people - are down 30 percent from the
same time last year. City officials hope fewer calls, means fewer guns going off.
"We still want to see those 911 calls. Don't feel that because we've got ShotSpotter up, that we don't want that call.
We need that call," said Chief Dolan.
The next stop for the ShotSpotter is north Minneapolis. City officials hope to have the same success there, where the
system will also cover a two square mile area. ShotSpotter will go live in north Minneapolis in just few weeks.
The total cost of equipment and installation for ShotSpotter in south and north Minneapolis is about $325,000.
By Trisha Volpe, KARE 11 News

Bailey Boat
February 10, 2007, 08:01 AM
Unfortunately our times have changed. The police are no longer proactive like they used to be, they are totally reactive. All their fit for anymore is to come and write a report and tell you how lucky you were that they only stole your car and didn't break into your home...bla...bla....bla.....
The phrase of "Protect and Serve" needs to be deleted.......I don't have a good replacement but that one needs to go.......

superfast61821
February 10, 2007, 08:03 AM
Police Depts. are primarilly reactive meaning they're the cleanup and take notes crew that shows up after the fact, if at all depending upon what's on the list of things to do. Self Defense is just that protecting ones self.
If i'm gonna call 911 it's because someone elses safety is being threatened or to let them know where to send the guys with mops to cleanup those that threatened my safety.

fixboot
February 10, 2007, 11:22 AM
I still remember an argument I had with a freind of a friend. She kept admonishing me for having all my "dangerous" firearms that I didnt need because, DIRECT QUOTE; "thats what we have the police for" Drove me up the wall. How do they feel safe? It makes no sense to me at all.........there really isnt a purpose to this thread other than me venting so mods if you want to delete or lock it up feel free.

tony pasley
February 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
The Police have never been to stop crime in progress, they have always been the clean-up crew. After a law is broken then they are to go get the badguy lock them up and hold for the "judical system(lol)" to work. You are the only one to protect you, because you are the only one always where you are.

mohican
February 10, 2007, 01:31 PM
It's amazing! I watched the demo video and it seems a very reliable system to catch the felonies.

revjen45
February 10, 2007, 02:59 PM
The "protection" of the law isn't worth the contents of a catbox.

JohnKSa
February 10, 2007, 03:43 PM
Unfortunately, a report of gunshots is a low priority call unless there are injuries or property damage.

Used to live in a city (suburb of Dallas) where you could hear gunshots any Friday night if you stayed outside long enough.

Baba Louie
February 10, 2007, 03:58 PM
I have alot of respect for police and what they do but I think people need to be more realistic about cops abilities to "protect" them. What say you?I concur. Also concur with your request to GF. Is she up to speed on "what to do if and when..." (speaking of Tactics & Training)? Is everyone else's significant other while you're away from home? (rhetorical question, since you're reading this forum I assume you have your bases covered...but some who lurk here might not)

fixboot
February 10, 2007, 04:05 PM
We have a shtf plan. Lets just say that!

Samurai
February 11, 2007, 11:19 AM
This is a problem in philosophy/perception. People who believe that police exist to "protect" them are simply mistaken. Police do not exist to keep bad things from happening to you. Police exist to round up anyone who does anything bad to you, and to bring them to court for trial and punishment.

If you want bad things to be "kept" from happening to you, you need to do it yourself. You do this by practicing proper defense, both through weaponry, and through good habits and strategy. If you are content with just accepting the fact that, after something bad happens to you, police will find them and arrest them, then rely on the police. But either way, it's a misstatement for the police to post "protect and serve" on their apparel. That's not what they do. It should read "investigate, arrest, and bring to trial." That's what they do.

tshadow6
February 11, 2007, 12:34 PM
I believe during the Carter Administation, two girls were raped repeatedly, the police were called, but failed to make a thorough check of the house. The police were sued, and WON. The court ruled it is not the police's job to protect everyone. I'll rely on myself thank you very much.

Blackwater OPS
February 11, 2007, 01:56 PM
Fixboot, do you live in DC by any chance? I witnessed several shootings there, some with multiple victims, local PD did not bother showing up until daylight most times, in some cases hours later...

Also, "shotspotter" scares the hell out of me, I read a book once where the 1984 style government used such a thing as an oppression tool.:eek: Fiction come to life I guess.

fixboot
February 11, 2007, 02:20 PM
do you live in DC by any chance?

Hell no! Thankfully, I live in oregon. Not the biggest of cities, but random gunshots are NOT a common happening around here. Just makes me wonder how antis can justify trying to leaving us good people defensless while knowing full well criminals will ALWAYS have access to weapons. No matter how good they think their "bans" will work. ****** me off. :barf:

outlaw6
February 11, 2007, 03:54 PM
Well, let me start out by saying that I am a LEO and it is true that, for the most part, police are reactionary. Oh, we will protect you, if we are there in time but most times, we're not. Think about it, once the gunshots stop, someone calls the police. Problem is, it's too late by then. Those bullets already got to where they're going. The same holds true for non shooting incidents as well. We are usually called after the fact.

Trained, competent self defense is the best defense.

Blackwater OPS
February 11, 2007, 08:34 PM
Think about it, once the gunshots stop, someone calls the police. Problem is, it's too late by then. Those bullets already got to where they're going.

True, but I always kinda thought if caught the guy, maybe he would not shoot anyone else for awhile?

killjoy
February 11, 2007, 09:52 PM
I live about 5 blocks outside the border of Detroit & on any nite during the summer when I'm on by back porch having a smoke I can hear gunfire and I never hear sirens afterwards. Thats just the way it is. The police don't go looking for trouble and I'm not sure I blame them either.

outlaw6
February 11, 2007, 10:15 PM
True, but I always kinda thought if caught the guy, maybe he would not shoot anyone else for awhile?

Well, yes, but catching them after the fact is not really the point of this thread.

ATW525
February 11, 2007, 11:14 PM
I've seen gunfire on a crowded city street in broad daylight that didn't seem to attract any attention since nobody got hit. Quite frankly I was amazed at the time at the reaction... or more precicely the lack there of... of people on the street. In the movies the bad guys pull out guns in a crowd of people and they run away in panic. From what I witnessed I can't help but think that most people on that street would have continued on about their business blissfully unaware even if they had gaping gunshot wounds gushing blood all over their fancy suits.

I also saw a cop about a block or so away from where this occured who seemed completely ignorant that any sort of criminal activity had transpired.

chrisandclauida2
February 12, 2007, 02:07 AM
one of the burb type cities around phoenix has the shot detection system. they claim to be able to dispatch within seconds of the system detecting the shot.

outlaw6
February 12, 2007, 08:44 AM
I've seen a promo video of that system and if it works like they say it does, it will greatly reduce Police response times. You can also incorporate cameras that start filming when the shot or shots are fired which could be a good tool as well.

It might be a bit too "Big Brother" for some but, if you're not outside shooting, you have nothing to worry about.

garryc
February 12, 2007, 08:54 AM
It might be a bit too "Big Brother" for some but, if you're not outside shooting, you have nothing to worry about.

So don't worry about your rights unless you're doing something wrong. Hey, I follow the laws, go ahead and put a camera inside my house, read my mail, tap my phone or, what the hell, chip me baby!!

outlaw6
February 12, 2007, 09:04 AM
This certainly isn't a system that should go up across the country but if you live in a high crime area, and I mean a HIGH crime area, it is an option.

I think it should be up to the people that live in that area to decide if the system is installed. They can decide which is more important, the increased safety or the privacy.

garryc
February 12, 2007, 09:51 AM
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin

All these "cracks in the door" of essential liberties scare the geebers out of me. That includes cameras on the streets. In this high tech era the means of crushing the essential liberty of privacy are much greater than they have ever been.

mvpel
February 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
Perhaps they didn't need to roll down your street, given the other intelligence they had from other people in the area - perhaps the suspects were seen heading off in another direction and they set up to intercept them.

fixboot
February 12, 2007, 04:07 PM
Perhaps they didn't need to roll down your street, given the other intelligence they had from other people in the area - perhaps the suspects were seen heading off in another direction and they set up to intercept them.

While this may be true, my original intention was to point out that many people (mainly antis) still belive that they are completely safe without weapons or training. There ARE people in this world so dense as to belive their local policemen are paid to "save" or "rescue" them from evil and its just not true. I struck up a conversation on this topic with the night auditor at work last night and while I think I may have instilled SOME kind of change in her thinking, she simply cannot seem to fully grasp the concept that her personal saftey and security is just that. HERS.Makes me glad to have been born with a BRAIN in my head!

Good words so far fellas.

Samurai
February 12, 2007, 04:46 PM
Getting me talking about the "common masses" will inevitably make me sound elitist, hateful, and entirely un-American. But, the fact is, it's only a fraction of the people in this world who are born to think for themselves.

The free-thinkers exist, basically, to shepherd the masses through this world. (It's a hard job, and we will occasionally get hurt doing it!) The masses exist to serve the free-thinkers, rewarding their hard work with a well-lived life of privilege. (In essence, the majority of people in this world need to be ruled.)


It's awfully difficult talking to someone who insists on being be ruled by others, especially if you think they ought to be a free-thinker. But, remember, (and I've had to learn this slowly through the years), it's perfectly OK to want to live a simple and sheltered life. It doesn't mean they are bad people. They just need people like us to take care of them... And, like any group of "protected" people (I'm REALLY trying not to say "sheep" or "cattle" here), there will be losses. We can't save them all. And, periodically, the simpletons will get killed by the predators in the world.

Huh... I'm starting to ramble. I'd better stop...

BouncerDan
February 12, 2007, 07:23 PM
Once a little over a year ago I had a repetitive trespasser. As we would later discover he has multiple reasons for coming into sight of our house.

The first reason was because he was growing pot in our woods behind our house and was tempting to keep us so scared that we wouldn't go back there.

The other reason was that he would frequently watch my little sister (than 13) undress for her shower (she has a bathroom in her bedroom) and than watch her redress or whatever.

So after several months of our almost nightly visits he finally slipped up and came to early in the day which resulted in us getting a decent look at him. Which than let us know Yes he was carrying some serious weaponry in the form of a sawed off shotgun and a pistol.

One night we were lucky enough to catch him in the act. Thankfully he chose to forgo a firefight. However just before sneaking outside to apprehend the "suspect" we notified police (who had been called about the perv several times by now) that he was back and that myself my older brother and I were going outside to detain him till police arrived and we also notified them that all parties in question were armed and asked him to "PLEASE SEND A UNIT IMMEDIATELY"

It was still almost an hour before LEO finally arrived. Although when they did arrive they do so in force with no less than 10 units arriving within than 3 minutes of the first.

When we asked the LEO why it took them so long we were informed by him we were lucky they even came to that kind of a situation since the supreme court ruled that LEO was not obligated by law to take any calls.

Capt Charlie
February 12, 2007, 08:40 PM
When we asked the LEO why it took them so long we were informed by him we were lucky they even came to that kind of a situation since the supreme court ruled that LEO was not obligated by law to take any calls.

That sounds like pure sarcasm on the part of the officer, Dan. I doubt very much that he speaks for his department. I don't know about law, but our policy is that every call for service will warrant a police response. Failure to do so can be termed dereliction of duty and will result in disciplinary action. That can be a pain in the butt sometimes, since as every LEO here knows, every department has its "regulars". We have one 83 yr old woman here that, as of today, has called police for service on trivial matters 497 times in the last 5 years! Nevertheless, we have to answer each & every call for service.

On a different note, most of the posts in this thread declare a lack of police response, but there's little on how we dealt with the problem when they didn't come. I have no doubts of the poster's experiences, but since this forum deals with tactics & training, I'd like to see it lean a little more in that direction. ;)

weldonjr2001
February 13, 2007, 12:12 AM
Reminds me of the old joke:

Guy calls police and tell the dispatcher two people are burglarizing his shed, and if the police hurry, they can catch the perpetrators in the act. The dispatcher tells the guy all officers are busy, and they don't have anybody to send. The guy hangs up, and calls back a few minutes later. Tells the dispatcher "Never mind, I shot both the perpetrators. Tell the officers not to hurry". A few minutes later, 3 squad cars roar into the street in front of the guy's house, sirens blowing and lights a blazing. The sergeant yells "Where are they?" The guy says, "They got away". The sergeant says "Got away? I thought you said you shot them". They guy says "I thought the dispatcher said they had no officers to send".

CyberSEAL
February 13, 2007, 12:49 AM
You better post a link to a news source about this or they may lock the thread.

markj
February 13, 2007, 02:17 PM
What to do if this happens? Get to a place of security, armed until they go away?

Heres what I used to do when I lived in the city, I was about 5 blocks from a "housing project" every friday nite and sometimes every nite shots would ring out, sometmes lasting a long time as the gang bangers celebrated or whatever. I would get tired of it and tired of reporting it to the cops so I would unload my 30-06. 5 Rounds out of the cannon would silence the area for the nite. Guess they knew they were underpowered? not sure, but I got my sleep in.

Had a customer of the shop I worked at get killed in that project, they kicked in his door and shot up the place killing him. He always paid cash too :)