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View Full Version : Does anyone ever actually fail a CCW permit class?


howard bleach
January 31, 2007, 06:03 PM
This question was posed to me and, having never taken one of these classes, I had no answer. I know it varies from state to state but I always assumed this 'class' and the resulting test was mostly a formality, to make sure you could hit a barn at 7 yards.

paknheat
January 31, 2007, 06:57 PM
A guy in my class failed. He shot a round up into the celing and blew out the hydralics that controled the targets on my side of the range.

mike83
January 31, 2007, 07:27 PM
I just got mine with no trouble at all. In Kentucky it is made so that someone with very limited firearms experience can pass. You watch a video that is boring as hell take an open book test on the laws and punch 11 holes in a target at 7 yards. Just act like you have a brain, listen to what the instructor say an no problem.

timothy75
January 31, 2007, 08:02 PM
I think more people should fail as a test you cant fail is not much of a test. I'd go as far as to say people must be able to hit 8 out of 10rds slowfire on a n 8 inch plate at 7 yards or you fail. I think that would honestly improve our cause and force some people to rethink equipment, practice and marksmanship. How could that be a bad thing?

robc
January 31, 2007, 08:53 PM
How could that be a bad thing?

I don't want to start any trouble. Just want to make a point. It could be a bad thing by reducing the number of people who exercise their constitutional right to keep and BEAR arms. According to the founders, there should not even be a test. The anti's work hard enough to take our freedoms away. Let's not give them a hand. :)

mete
January 31, 2007, 09:04 PM
I knew of one years ago .The instructors found the guy very careless ,very unsafe ,so they recommended to the judge that he not be issued a permit. Do you really think that careless, irresponsible gun owners help the gun cause ?

robc
January 31, 2007, 09:14 PM
Never quite said that mete. You said yourself that a bad one got weeded out. Let's ask this... Does the current roster of CCW holders across the country have more, less or the same gun trouble (commiting crime, having accidents, etc.) as the general population? If the answer is more, then lets talk about having a harder test. If the answer is less, then why change anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't believe I've seen any evidence that it's broke. CCW folks shoot themselves in the groin a lot in your neck of the woods?

9mmsnoopy
January 31, 2007, 09:25 PM
I think you would have to be incredibly careless and or stupid to fail.

I will never forget my class, i was the youngest there and i was pushing 40 hard myself and most of the people were senior citizens.

At the range when we were getting ready to fire for the first time, the instructor clearly(thru a bullhorn) states "on my command you are to fire ONE round and stop"

When he said fire, one old guy unloaded his mag. It was quite hilarious, i could barely shoot straight after that. :D

robc
January 31, 2007, 09:26 PM
timothy75's idea of a harder test seems like a functional idea on the surface. But I gotta ask again... Is there a problem with CCW people now? Do they commit more crime, have more accidents, lose their guns on the bus, shoot good guys by accident, etc. more than the people who don't have a CCW? If the answer is no, then any talk about a harder test is just pandering to the anti crowd. They'll just want an even harder test 18 months later cuz some lady in Winslow Az. shoots the neighbor's dog.

TexiCali Slim
January 31, 2007, 09:29 PM
A guy in my class failed. He shot a round up into the celing and blew out the hydralics that controled the targets on my side of the range.Ok well that guy Shouldnt have one.
But as far as making smaller targets and such.. Its a Concealed Weapon class, Most situations when you'll apply your CCW will be very close, so what they test is very applicable.
It's not Sniper class.

JohnKSa
January 31, 2007, 11:31 PM
I work with a fellow who's an instructor. It's rare, but it happens. In TX, the class isn't really about proficiency nearly as much as it's about the legal aspects of carrying.

The last class I took, the shooter next to me failed the shooting test but passed on the second try. What kills me is that she couldn't load or operate her gun without help--I wonder who she thinks is going to help her if she's attacked...

Does she practice? She said she hadn't shot since her last CHL class--4 years earlier.

squeaks
January 31, 2007, 11:51 PM
I went to a class in TN and there was an older gentleman with some sort of .380 that would jam repeatedly. He couldn't clear the jams himself. It became a big bother because he held up the entire testing process over and over. He even ran out of ammo because he kept losing the bullets on the ground if he did try to clear the gun.

I'm glad he did not get his ccw. He would have wasted his time using a gun for self defense.

M3Cosmos
February 1, 2007, 12:36 AM
9mmsnoopy:
At the range when we were getting ready to fire for the first time, the instructor clearly(thru a bullhorn) states "on my command you are to fire ONE round and stop"
When he said fire, one old guy unloaded his mag. It was quite hilarious, i could barely shoot straight after that.

This same thing happened when I took my test last Saturday. The first time when the instructor said one round, 25% of the people there started unloading. A bunch of guys there had cheap semi-autos that would continuously jam which held everyone up. One guy next to me had never owned a gun before and was borrowing one, so obviously there was another hold up.
We all went through 50rds from 3, 7, 10, 12, 15 yds. We were firing at the standard size silhouette and I believe we were scored on how many we got inside the largest ring on the target. I got 100%:D You had to get a "70%" to pass, and everyone passed OK.
One girl got an 86 or so, and I saw another in the 70's; everyone passed though.

mete
February 1, 2007, 06:51 AM
The whole point of a ccw is to defend yourself. If you don't have good training [obviously common] and the mental preperation you're kidding yourself and the gun is nothing but a 'warm blanket' !! I heard the 911 call of a woman who had purchased a gun to protect herself and her daughter. When a BG broke in she became totally hysterical !!! She was unable to use the gun and the operator properly told her not to touch the gun. Fortunately the telephone saved her.It shouldn't be "it's my right to carry a gun" but rather " I'll get the best training so I am prepared if I ever have to use the gun".

ATW525
February 1, 2007, 08:03 AM
CCW Class? What's that? lol :p

No class or test required here. You can get your permit without ever touching a gun as long as you pass the background check. It seems to work well and I'm not aware of any problems.

I imagine most people serious about self defense get training, and most who aren't serious end up leaving their gun safely at home once the novelty wears off.

Al Norris
February 1, 2007, 08:19 AM
I suppose, I'm not gonna make any friends here...

Yes, it is our right to keep and bear arms. But even the Founders knew that it was only those that were "well regulated" that were the bulwark of defense. Here, "well regulated" means not only being familiar with the manual of arms, but competent marksmen, also.

In the legal climate of todays USA, we have to have a permission slip from Big Brother in order to carry concealed. Part of the requirement of obtaining that permission, is training. Some States require more training than others.

So I'm kinda split on this. On the one hand, it would be better overall to have more people armed - The more people armed, the less fear of guns in the general population. One the other hand, armed but untrained is a recipe for disaster.

The other part of the equation is the cost of effective training. While most places have a darn good regimen, they are not cheap. (They are in fact geared to make money. Sometimes, lots of money. I'm not against that... I'm just saying...) And once we institute some type of formal training, where does it end?

Currently, most Legislators have not mandated yearly qualifications. But don't for a moment think that some one of them haven't given the idea a thought or two. After all, we require our police to qualify, at a minimum of once yearly, don't we? Then why not us?

Once we begin to really think of training and passing or failing the class, then the rest must be thought of also. To think you're trained after a brief 1 day class (if that), is pure folly.

Just something to think about...

Samurai
February 1, 2007, 09:17 AM
Had two old-timers from "the Bayou" (wherever that is), that failed the written test TWICE. They simply could NOT get it out of their heads that you can't shoot a fleeing suspect. Also, they thought that if you shot a guy outside your door trying to run away, if you drag him into your house, it's legal. The instructor was cool about it, he went over the exam and allowed them to repeat it until they passed.

These guys were STUPID. They also landed about 70% on the silouette (-sp) at 7 yards. They were shooting .22 revolvers with 8" barrels.

These were the same guys who saw my fiance and I shooting 1911's, and asked her if she wanted to trade pistols with them! They said, "'Dis-here'll be alot easier ta' shoot 'dan dat big-ole' gun yer' shootin'!" (My fiance was shooting her father's custom-made Wilson Combat 1911 match pistol. Remember, also, SHE taught ME how to shoot!) My fiance quickly gutted out the 9-ring at 15 yards on her Wilson and walked away. Awfully "big" of her, in my opinion...

Never underestimate the sheer and utter stupidity of the masses. Warnings on circular saws advising not to take the safety-bar off? Those are there for a REASON. People will surprise you at how stupid they can be.

LubeckTech
February 1, 2007, 09:50 AM
There does have to be a pass fail written and marksmanship test like hit a 8" target 8 out of 10 at 7 yards and there needs to be a written test (not open book) demonstrating understanding of 5 - 10 points of law in a shoot/no shoot question format as a "final". Just showing up and taking a cousre is not enough for one simple reason: we as gun owners are under constant siege even where ccw is allowed the antigun faction is trying to contest it and they dont need more ammunition so to speak. If everyone always passes and they can find some dufas who couldn't hit a cow in the tit with a tin cup carrying it would provide much sauce for the goose.

Glenn E. Meyer
February 1, 2007, 10:30 AM
I know of instructors who have quashed the application of folks who have shown a little too much 'blood lust' in carrying the gun. They felt they could not certify them.

In my first class, I also did see a guy shoot down the rig in an indoor range. He brought some fancy SW semi - custom job - with handloads. Then he shot the pulley system and claim the barrel or load gave the bullet a curve to hit the rig.

Last weekend, I took a family member to the range for a first shooting experience. Said person shot very well for the first and shot the center out of a B27 with a 38 SPL snubbie at 4 yards (a start distance to get confidence) and did equally well with a Glock 19. Asked me if that was good performance. I said - Look at the ceiling. :D

Samurai
February 1, 2007, 11:26 AM
I must confess, I too have shot the rig at the indoor range. However, my shot broke the pulley string at the VERY back of the range (25 yards), and I was shooting head shots at 7 yards at the time.

Random accident? Sure. Act of stupidity? Hardly. Rangemaster stopped the range, tied the string, and we were all shooting again within 30 seconds.

Still, shooting straight up to shoot out the portion of the rig right in front of you is pretty bone-headed. And funny.

Glenn E. Meyer
February 1, 2007, 11:38 AM
At an indoor range, they had a massive metal clamp that held the target. With a B-27, it came down so low as to touch the head of the silouette.

I was shooting with my off hand - only using one hand and trying to practice a Mozambique, IIRC. I shot too high and hit the bottom of the clamp. There was a splash of sparks and the bullet or fragment cut the target in half on a diagonal from the top of the head. Half fluttered to the floor. The other half caught fire on the edges. The guy next to me wanted to know what kind of round of I was shooting. Probably thought it was the new ExtremeMagnoFlameBuster round.

Later the range changed out this big ol' clamp. I guess it was too exciting.

minsonngo
February 1, 2007, 04:45 PM
Some people really should not even be able to own a gun much less a CHL. I had one lady next to me that accidentally shot the floor right in front of her when it was cease fire. She got chewed out really bad but I don't know if she failed or pass the class.


Its really hard to fail the course unless your clueless or blind. I shot a 149 out of 150 on the shooting test that was on a freezing rainy day and scored a 98 on the classroom exam without paying much attention.

DonR101395
February 1, 2007, 05:24 PM
I know I'll catch heat for this but here goes MHO.
I don't think there should be classes because I don't think there should be permits. It's a right, not a privilege. Do I think untrained folks should be carrying? Yes I do. Do I think there should be stiff penalties for using a gun carelessly? Yes I do.
BTW I also think they should get rid of all safety labels on consumer products as well as the ability to bring a lawsuit because you're too stupid to realize you can't use the electric hair dryer in the shower. Time to thin the herd.



Also, yes I understand that innocent people will be harmed, killed and mutilated by unknowing dolts but this nanny state, pc, bs has got to stop. The "establishment" can't protect you from everything nor should they.

tuckerdog1
February 1, 2007, 05:37 PM
since I took the class the 1st time. Just recently finished my 3rd renewal. But when I took the class the 1st time, the instructors ( husband & wife ), made it clear at the beginnig of the class, that everyone was going to pass. There was a very elderly lady in the class. She had a very old 38 snub. At the range, we shot two at a time, side by side. Then scored the target of the person next to you. This old lady couldn't hit a barn from the inside. No way her score was going to be high enough to pass. But the instructor jumped in when she was done & said HE was gonna score her target. He got up real close, so it would be hard to see what he was doing. But I could see he was punching holes in her target with a ballpoint pin, so her score would be high enough to pass.
Personally I think that was a good thing. She has a right to protect herself. But she sure needed to get in some range time.

9mmsnoopy
February 1, 2007, 05:44 PM
"I went to a class in TN and there was an older gentleman with some sort of .380 that would jam repeatedly"


Hmmmmm, my experiance tells me he might have had a walther ppk/s.

Hook686
February 1, 2007, 07:17 PM
In California, part of the permit is qualifying , with the handgun. Three handguns are permitted on the application, and each must be qualified with (75% average, 10 rounds, in 2 minutes, on B24 target at 10 meters was the case at the range I took my class at).

Nortonics
February 1, 2007, 07:29 PM
Passing a CCW course is about as hard as buying a $75 box of Cracker Jacks.

protectedbyglock
February 1, 2007, 09:19 PM
Happy to live in good 'ol PA. Fill out a form with your name, reason for wanting to carry, and all the standard federal bs, and pick your permit up in a week. $30.
My girlfriend went with me and got hers, too. She didn't even know what she was getting. The guy at the desk at the Sheriff's office was laughing because I kept telling her what to write. "Check the hunting box....the self defense box....and the target shooting box. No, not the employment box, honey, because then they want bank deposit slips and stuff... I think". "Don't worry about the $30, it's my treat."

I like hearing the stories about your classes, though. Pretty funny stuff.

tepin
February 1, 2007, 10:05 PM
only if you shoot yourself or someone else. :D

Gbro
February 1, 2007, 10:55 PM
I have failed some and still regret not failing more. The written test is basically a survey to see how well i presented the material. But the Range and hands on is the critical part.
I have canceled 2 classes because Bozo's i know wanted to take class, and there was no way my name was going onto their cert's.

Here are to LIKE individuals here. They took classes and when they applied the Sheriff said NO!

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/articles/index.cfm?id=34410&CFID=3504762&CFTOKEN=13931017&jsessionid=883095b4256260555054

Hardtarget
February 1, 2007, 10:56 PM
I think there are some that should not be carrying...BUT...if they are smart enough to know they need a gun and may need to defend themselves...then they should be smart enough to LEARN how to be safe and proficient with it. Not expert, mind you, just how to shoot it, clean it, be safe with it. That is not asking too much.
Mark.

Hkmp5sd
February 2, 2007, 01:14 AM
Currently, most Legislators have not mandated yearly qualifications. But don't for a moment think that some one of them haven't given the idea a thought or two. After all, we require our police to qualify, at a minimum of once yearly, don't we? Then why not us?



Firearm: A device so complex to use that it requires a mandatory 8 hour safety class before being purchased by an adult.

Firearm: A device so simple to use that it requires madatory safety locks to prevent children from shooting themselves.

:)

guntotin_fool
February 2, 2007, 04:49 AM
a friend who is an instructor asked a gentleman to leave the class, gave him cash back, Buddy said he was making odd remarks and tough guy jokes all thru class, buddy just tossed him.


In my most recent class, we had a guy who dropped the slide and then somehow managed to pull the trigger at the same time. and did this twice. he was told he needed more range time and was later given a pass. I understand he was a shop owner who had been assualted twice in a month and had never touched a gun before hand, Two hours of private lessons and he did very well i was told.

shooter71
February 2, 2007, 10:05 AM
i was the dumb one in my class...i missed "1" question and i believe everyone else got them all right :D

the question read something like :

" if you see a guy kicking in your door, do you have the right to shoot him"

i said no

well i was wrong..the instructor said if you can "see" him in the process of kicking in my door that is a violant act you can shoot. now if you have a solid door obv this wont work or the guy has already broke in and is just standing there he isnt doing anything violent. me being the funny man i am i told the instructor, that i felt if he worked so hard to get in the least i could do is pay him with a $.15 bullet , obv i was the only one laughing

Tex32cal
February 2, 2007, 11:11 AM
Ditto on the Walthers PPK/S. I think those weapons are possessed:mad: I kept my all of one month before dumping it for a Springfield XD9.

Michael

David Armstrong
February 2, 2007, 01:11 PM
The whole point of a ccw is to defend yourself. If you don't have good training [obviously common] and the mental preperation you're kidding yourself and the gun is nothing but a 'warm blanket' !!
One might think so, but reality dictates otherwise. It appears that a large number and probably most successful defensive shootings are done by those with very limited training or no formal training at all.

Having said that, yes, I have failed some people who were trying to get their concealed permit.

Tokamak
February 2, 2007, 10:37 PM
There was a splash of sparks and the bullet or fragment cut the target in half on a diagonal from the top of the head. Half fluttered to the floor. The other half caught fire on the edges. The guy next to me wanted to know what kind of round of I was shooting.

Now that is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. LOL.

Hook686
February 2, 2007, 11:42 PM
Today, 10:05 AM #34

shooter71 wrote:



i was the dumb one in my class...i missed "1" question and i believe everyone else got them all right

the question read something like :

" if you see a guy kicking in your door, do you have the right to shoot him"

i said no

well i was wrong..the instructor said if you can "see" him in the process of kicking in my door that is a violant act you can shoot. ...


This caught my attention. You mean in your jurisdiction you can shoot a guy for merely pounding on a door ? Geesh ... here in California I believe a lethal threat needs to be present, before pulling a gun and shooting anyone. Pulling a gun on a guy pounding on the door strikes me, as 'elevating the confrontation to a lethal level'. In other words, aside from brandishing, a felony out here, the BG would then be justified in killing me. :(

Interesting perspective ... does a stranger pounding on the door to my home, as in trying to breakin, pose a lethal threat to the occupant(s) ?

pdkflyguy
February 3, 2007, 10:14 AM
I first got my CCW permit in Georgia, where all you have to do is fill out a form and sign about 3 pages of documents. Since I've moved to Florida, I have to now take the "Firearms Training Course" at a local shooting center. Having been shooting for a while, and also having taught my wife to shoot, I am interested to see what the crowd will be like. I know my wife and I will pass, but I'll be interested to see if there are people there who have no busines carrying a gun.

IMHO:
I know it's a previledge that we are all afforded, but so is driving. And let me tell you this, there are certain people that I don't want behind the wheel of a car, either. People don't take enough responsibility these days to learn the practical skills to handle the dangerous situations they find themselves in, whether carrying a gun or driving a car. I know the gun owner's community is usually more responsible than the general population, but there are still some crazies out there who just don't need a car, a gun, a dog, or even a sharp stick. They're liable to hurt themselves or someone else real soon, and I don't want that person they hurt to be me.

pdkflyguy
February 3, 2007, 10:16 AM
On a second note, I was at a range when a class was being offered to beginner shooters, and a young woman of about 22 was being taught to shoot a .38 revolver. She kept hitting the target holders more often that the target, which I guess would be pretty good if it had been on purpose. It scared the crap out of the rest of us on the range, because we didn't want to get hit with a ricochet, so most of us left shortly thereafter.

chris in va
February 3, 2007, 06:22 PM
What I can't figure out is why there isn't a standardized test/training for firearms ownership. Seriously, I've seen a lot of people at the range that shouldn't come anywhere near a gun, much less be firing one.

Virginia's test is a joke. Sit in a 'class' for a couple hours, poke a few holes in paper and voila...now you can carry concealed? C'mon. I hear the Texas test is a lot more stringent, as it should be. Failing someone probably isn't a good idea, but extensive training should be mandatory. I don't feel excessive costs are needed either, especially for the single mother trying to raise two kids and protecting her family from a deranged ex-whatever.

waynedm
February 3, 2007, 06:27 PM
Right the bear arms? I guess I could work out more and try to grow the hair out longer but I don't think my nails will come even close to resembling that of a bear's.

HiltonFarmer
February 3, 2007, 06:46 PM
You could live in Canada and never get a CCW :eek:

The hoops I had to jump through to get my restricted license were incredible. All common sense but still a two day course if you have never fired a gun before - not to mention the 280.00 for the course plus the 80.00 to apply to the government for your license. BTW - the process takes approx 45 days from the time you file your applicatio! A mandatory 28 day waiting period plus 17 days administration time.

And then to top it all off - I have to get an Authorization to Transport my handgun before it can leave the house. Hmmm - I believe the Charter of Freedoms and Rights in Canada is based on the Magna Carta and the British North American Act.

Oh well. The test/course shouldn't be easy but then again it shouldn't be hard either. On the other side of the coin, I don't think everyone should have a gun given some of the practices I've seen and read in my limited time owning a firearm but I do agree that everyone should have the right to bear a firearm given they have demonstrated they are responsible enough to.

Hiltonfarmer

pdkflyguy
February 4, 2007, 01:05 PM
I went to the class that Florida requires. They handed out a booklet and said this verbatim:

"The state of Florida requires you to know everything in that book, but I'm only going to go over the three points that we think you need to know, then you should just read it at your leaisure."

There was no test, just the booklet. Some people in the class had never shot before. That scares me a little bit. I don't mind people being able to carry, but they should at least have a general knowledge of how guns work first.

Then came the shooting test. It was a standard silhouette target with 5-9 rings and then the X ring. Again, verbatim:

"As long as most of your shots aren't outside the 7 ring, that'll be good enough."

Ok, so that's not as bad. You don't need to me a Marine Sniper to carry a concealed firearm. Since the FBI data says that the average shooting occurs at 3 feet, you should be able to hit that. But he made it pretty obvious that even if your first 10 magazine's didn't hit the paper, you'd probably be allowed to keep shooting until you did.

I think that there should be a test, and some amount of proficiency required. I know several states require you to qualify to police officer standards every year, and I think that's way too stringent. A cop is much more likely to need to shoot his weapon, and hit what he's aiming at than your average citizen. Training and practice ARE important, but that's just one more thing the government doesn't need to regulate. Get them out of our business.

DonR101395
February 4, 2007, 04:28 PM
. I know several states require you to qualify to police officer standards every year,

Where is that? I couldn't find a reference.

Snow Fox
February 4, 2007, 04:52 PM
Pennsylvania is a little differnet than protectedbyglock discribed. it varies from County to county. Bucks county to the north of me is as easy as he said. Montgomery where I live is a little different. There I had to drop off the form at the police station, then wait for them to call me to go pick it up a few days later then take it down to the county court house. I had to pay $40 for mine.

Shamus
February 4, 2007, 07:46 PM
I teach here in Ohio and have failed 3 in the last 12 months. It's mostly about safety, firearm knowledge and practice, practice, practice. The law is something we don't discuss, we bring in LE and a lawyer to cover those topics. For some reason everyone pays attention when they answer.

There are many that can strip any one of several firearms blindfolded but I would be nervous next to them at the range. Some just talk a good line but are clueless and finally a few that just scare the crap out of you.

The balance, 85-90% are there to learn something.

Mokumbear
February 4, 2007, 08:35 PM
My experience in Florida was that filling out the paperwork
and making the time to go to the one main Sheriff's office in the County
that could scan fingerprints (rather than the traditional "hard card")
was the hardest part of the test. (The background check processes much faster with scanned prints.)

Oh yeah, I had a little trouble paying for the background check online because the people at the Sheriff's office didn't spell my log in info very clearly. When I got on the 'net later, a tiny problem with a capital letter or space missing resulted in me having to call their tech support.

As far as the shooting portion of the test, I don't think you had to even hit the target.
Just discharge your firearm without wounding yourself or the instructor.

I found it a little worrysome that some of the people in my class seemed to have never fired a gun before! (At least the people at the gun shop told them they offer shooting courses.) Anyway, the newbies stuck it out.

One funny part was at the end of filling out paperwork and briefly reviewing
CCW law in our state, the instructor wisely said "anyone who is experienced and comfortable with shooting, step forward, those who need some help we'll work with at the end".

Needless to say, I practically ran to the front of the line!
(Eager not to be around people with no training/experience and just wanting to get on with my day).

Not that it mattered, but I quickly dumped 15, 9mm rounds into my now DOA target.
They handed me the papers I needed and said "have a nice day"! :D

Samurai
February 5, 2007, 09:43 AM
I find a great deal depends not only on the state, but the specific instructor. A fellow martial artist I know went to a CCW class taught by one of our instructors. In my class, under a different instructor, we had to hit the target 60% of the time over 50 rounds at 3m, 7m, and 15m, respectively. But in her class, our martial arts instructor made her do double taps, quick draws, tactical reloads, and traverse the indoor range delivering a single shot down each lane! (He was totally messing with her!:D :p :D We all laughed about it later!)

Ultimately, there's "what the instructor is supposed to do," and there's "what the instructor actually does."

Mokumbear
February 6, 2007, 11:12 PM
Very interesting, though funny!

My fave local range would not allow 2 of the mentioned techniques.

1) No "quick draw"

2) No shooting across lanes (I assume this is a richochet issue).

All the same, better to be overtrained than undertrained! :rolleyes:

Ironbarr
February 6, 2007, 11:42 PM
Running rounds = fun - running punches = work. :)

.

AZGunLover
February 14, 2007, 01:57 AM
When I took my CCW class, the instructors said that they had had only one person ever that could not pass the class, but they did say that they had failed numerous people for safety issues on the range and that they had no problem failing us if we did not follow their range safety instructions.

Samurai
February 14, 2007, 11:17 AM
Mokumbear,

Yeah. It wasn't allowed there, either. But, the instructor was friends with the owners, had free-run of the range that day, and was given a little leeway (given that he was messing with one of his students :p ).

Ironbarr,

We have a saying: If it's not fun, you're not doin' it right. Strike training should be done in groups of friends, with music playing, and people interacting. Hitting a bag by yourself is BORING, just like shooting by yourself can get boring.

But, that's irrelevant. The point is, we contemplate "punching somebody's lights out" MUCH more frequently than we contemplate shooting someone. (In fact, most young men will get into a fight at least ONCE in their lives. Hardly anyone ever gets into a shootout.) And yet, most of us on this forum don't train to fight NEARLY as hard as we train to shoot.

It's just an interesting observation of priorities... You are almost ASSURED to get in a fight at least once in your life. But, obesity, high blood pressure, and calcium depletion is rampant in this country. Americans are EASY to hit! Why don't we train???

Just a thought, really... Now, back to the thread!

Trope
February 28, 2007, 11:09 PM
One student in my class failed the shooting portion of the test. I had a bad feeling when they handed him the rental gun and he pointed it at several people next to him. Later during the test, the instructor pulled him from the line when he ran out of ammo (50 rounds) about half way through the test. Instead of loading five/shooting five (etc.), as instructed, he just kept filling the mag, then shooting until it got quiet. It turns out that English wasn't his first language, so I don't think he understood the commands. I think they let him re-take it, but I cannot imagine that he passed the written part, either.

Ricebrnr
March 1, 2007, 09:21 AM
The class I took in January did in fact "fail" one person. He had little shooting experience and had only just bought his Glock the week before.

The company that gave the class allows retaking the class for whatever reason within 30 days, so there was no pressure to pass clients.

PILMAN
March 1, 2007, 10:15 AM
I don't have a CCW yet and am a new gun owner. I'm not sure if I should get one, I live in Florida. Are classes required to get a CCW and if not should I take classes anyways? I figure you can never be too safe.

pdkflyguy
March 1, 2007, 10:40 AM
As a new gun owner, you should probably take a class anyways, to get familiar with your gun and the basics of good shooting technique. Always be learning, and don't ever feel like you know it all. There are always things to be gained from another's experiences. That being said, I would only apply for the CCW permit if you actually plan on carrying. Carrying a weapon is a big decision and a big responsibility. You should not come to that decision lightly. The Florida class is not difficult at all, even for beginners, and you would have no problems if you took it. But again, why do you want your fingerprints on file, and your background checked if you have no intention of ever carrying your gun?

madmag
March 1, 2007, 11:10 AM
I watched a lady fail the shooting CCW sequence several times (Kentucky). But they kept working with her until she finally passed. It was interesting. I was standing directly behind her. She had a smith Model 36 Chiefs Special. When you looked at her shooting it appeared she had good stance and was aiming correctly. I was looking over her gun it looked like it was on target and could not miss at the 7 yards they had her shooting. But, not one bullet hit the target. It was like she was shooting blanks. Finally the instructor basically guided each shot and she passed. I hope she kept trying to improve.