Should loading data be specific to bullet brand?

[mutski]

I recall glancing at a loading manual at Sportsman's Warehouse that listed the manufacturer of the bullet. I just bought a Lee Turret Press and a copy of Lee's Modern Reloading from Midway USA. The Lee manual lists only the weight and general design of the bullet, for example "lead," "jacketed" or "wadcutter." Is this OK, or must I really buy a manual that specifies loads for specific make and model of bullet? I know bullets do vary by hardness and design - one manufacturer's 158 gr JHP may not be the same length and shape as another's. Might even be some slight variation in diameter. Do Lee's tables contain a sufficient safety factor to account for these variations, or am I just worrying too hard? Anyway, I want to get a safe start to reloading .38 specials.

[Jim Watson]

Do you plan to load .38s to utter maximum +P+ and shoot them in a lightweight gun?
If not, you will not likely have any trouble using generic data for any bullets of the same weight and construction. At least I never have had.

The Lee data is based on powder company data, they don't run a pressure test lab of their own. But they have gone to generic bullet descriptions to make their tables look more of a piece. But it is a look. They got their Win 231 load from Winchester and their Bullseye load from Alliant and the different company test setups and components can vary enough that a close comparison is not really possible.

A bullet maker's manual will show the same bullets with different powders and you can get a better idea of how they compare. Lyman shows cast bullet loads with bullets from their own moulds. That varies a good deal from mould to mould and the usual commercial cast bullet from a Magma caster might not do exactly the same as either, even though of the same weight.

A chronograph is a big help if you want to know more about your loads than the function and accuracy of them in your gun.

[mutski]

For starters, I'm just loading light .38 specials, likely wadcutters, for bullseye competition. Maybe try some .44 specials later. Maybe after I have some experience, I'll try some magnum loads, but for field carry, I'll probably use factory loads.

[amamnn]

Lee's load data is alleged to be an average obtained by testing many different powders and brands of the same type bullet. If you want to be as exact and as accurate as possible, the current bullet mfgr. load data is the way to go.

[amamnn]

sorry-- I lost a word or two in the spellchecker --- collecting--- Lee collects testing data---- Also, you might remember that bullet and powder compostition are changed occasionally, and a manual or load data sheet that is very far out of date may not be valid. I've been told that Lee tries to take that into account by being very conservative with "never exceed" measures.

[kojak]

It really makes a difference.

boattail bullets generate slightly less pressure as the base offers more possibility for gas flowby. Jacket thickness makes a difference, too. A longer bullet (i.e. spitzer vs. roundnose) set to the same oal leaves less space for powder and generates more pressure.

I treat all data as generic nonetheless. If not we would run out of usable loads.

[snuffy]

IF you start at the recommended starting charge for the grain weight of the bullet you want to use, then work up, you'll be okay. Useing whatever bullet you have, in your firearm, watching out for pressure signs, is a safe approach.

Looking at the various bullet manufactures loading books, you can see a lot of varience in their recommended powder charges. Some interpret that to mean the bullets are "harder" or the bearing surface is longer, generating more pressure. It could be that the difference is how they were tested and in what type of barrel. Notice some say "universal reciever", others give a make and model of rifle/handgun. Since there's no industry standard for testing, there can and will be variation.

The only bullets I'm aware of that require specific information to use is the Barnes solid copper bullets. They DO react differently than lead core bullets, they need to be loaded different!

[Edward429451]

I agree with snuffy but if you do not own a chronograph, felt recoil is a poor estimater of velocity etc. Once I got a chrono, I realized that many of my similar but not not by the book loads were reaching my target velocities with less charges. At least in one case, I had exceeded max velocity with a less than max charge and no high pressure signs. I thought it was midrange and now knowing differently, must assume the pressure was up there also. How else could I reach higher velocities unless my pressure was higher?

So don't nitpick, but don't assume too much either.

[cheygriz]

Absolutely!

[WestWorld]

I had that same confusion a few years ago when I started reloading. My manual would give a recipe for a Speer XYZ 158gr JHP but I had some Hornady XYZ 158gr JHP's. What to do?!
Thats why folks here talk about "load development". You start at the low end of the reccomended data (from more than one source) and work up... hopefully with a chronograph.
Start reloading for a revolver. You usually dont have to worry about headspace and OAL is less critical. OAL will affect pressure and velocity but if you get some bullets with a cannelure and seat the bullet/case mouth there you should be alright.
Learn about the affects of seating depth, over pressure signs, squibs (dangerous) and different burn rates of powder. If you load for Pistol, learn about headspace, feed ramp, out-of-battery, reliable cycling of the slide.
Research, research, research will be your friend.

[HiltonFarmer]

Thanks WestWorld Now I need to get a revolver! :p

HiltonFarmer

[rem33]

I never have worried about different brands if the weight is the same cases or bullets. 30 years or so and thousands of reloads I am OK. That is me I DO NOT endorse that for anyone just what I have been OK with.
Was told it was OK by some older guys that were true gunsmiths and reloaders back when I was a youngin and just begining to reload so far so good. Just work up your loads and it should be fine.

[CHAINSAW]

I think it makes a difference. With the different compositions of each bullet makers jacket, pressures build at different rates. It has always appeared to me and my other reloading buddies that the jackets on Hornady bullets were somewhat "softer" than those of the Sierra and thus the Hornady would have more "drag" in the barrel. We felt the Hornadys came to pressure faster than a Sierra. We also noticed that Barnes bullets could take more powder to come up to pressure. (could be the heat treating of the copper bullet)

What this comes down to is that each bullet/rifle barrel is unique in their own right. That maximum load in the book may be nothing but trouble in your rifle. I use mainly Hornady and Barnes bullets and work with their manuals quite a bit.

[Red_Eagle]

I think it does make quite a bit of difference. If you take a 27 caliber 130gr Hornady spire point and compare it to a Speer 130 gr grad slam, you notice immediately that if you seat them both at the same point on the cannilure, the Hornady will that up most of the neck in a 270 winchester cartride. The deeper seating depth in reflected in the load data. Hornady's max is 2 grain less than Speer's.

[mutski]

Thanks y'all! For now, I'm loading Colorado Cast 148 gr wadcutters, flat on both ends and seemingly semetrical. The other easily available bullet in town (for Bullseye, anyway) is the Oregon Trail Lasercast. My goal now is to get supplied for league shooting; I'll try that for a while before I move to other loads. For now, at least I don't have jackets to worry about.

[Dogjaw]

.38's with lead? I don't care what maker it is. I load them the same and haven't found a hill of beans of difference. This conversation crossed over into jacketed bullets, and to this I use more caution, to the point of looking at more than one publication.