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View Full Version : Situational awareness while doing #2.....


Red Grant
January 18, 2007, 04:36 AM
I've been meaning to start a thread on this very important, but often maligned topic, but recent article by Brent Wheat of SWAT mag on this topic gave me the oomph.




Where would you guys put the gun while performing #2 in a public restroom?

gdvan01
January 18, 2007, 05:04 AM
In public restrooms, for said requirements, I always use the stall at the end of the row (which in most cases is the handicapped stall and is somewhat roomier). It is closed on 2 sides and as long as the floor isn't too disgusting you can set any personal items in the corner on the floor.

If it ends up being the handicapped stall and you get funny looks when you come out....f-'em. Safety first. And remember not to hang anything on the hook on the inside of the stall door, it's pretty easy to reach over and snag what's there while you're grunting away.

Josh Smith
January 18, 2007, 05:56 AM
Set it on your pants, muzzle facing the toilet.

Josh <><

NCHornet
January 18, 2007, 07:22 AM
I'm not putting anything on a public restrooms floor!!! This was posted in another forum and one of the members said he uses the Underwear Hammock, you drop your drawers, spread your legs, and you have created a perfect Hammock for you gun to sit in while dropping a duece. It can be accessed very quickly if the need be. I hope y'all find the Underwear Hammock as useful as I have!!:D

Red Grant
January 18, 2007, 07:29 AM
...I always use the stall at the end of the row...


I do, too for the same reasons, but I've never gotten funny looks.


I never put anything on the hook of the door, either.



Set it on your pants,


That's what Brent advised.


However, I have learned to do things a little different.


I take off both my trouser and the underwear. (and yes, shoes, too) I go "full super commando".

My reason is that when performing #2, the trousers and underwear (if you're not going "commando") around my ankle severly limits my mobility if not taken off.


...and that's why I also carry my double wrapped plastic bags so that I can put my trouser, and underwear in it if the floor is too grubby, and ditch the outside plastic layer so that my duffle bag wouldn't be contaminated by the foreign materials from the floor.

I also carry another plastic sheet so that I can put my feet on while taking off and putting on the shoes, the trouser, and the underwear if the floor is too grubby.


I also learned to perform #2 while squatting on the stall. It gets the "stuff" out more quickly and smoothly.


Also, if performed while doing the "courtesy flush" if bg comes inside the room it will confuse him for a moment where I might be since bg won't be able to easily see my legs...so long as he comes in after the flushing noise dies down.


Yes, he will be able to see me, but he will have to come close and see through the gaps.


Another article that I find very useful is shoehorn of the long kind, it helps me get inside the shoes easily without damaging the dress shoes, and on a pinch could double as a close range impact/distraction weapon.



The actual gun itself? I got myself a custom-made "universal" size calf holster without the strap, it's actually more or less a bucket than a holster.


This way, the gun is as close as it can be to my dominant hand and fast to get it out and secure from falling out from normal range movement.


I only use this calf gun bucket while performing #2.


P.S. For it's worth, I also take one teaspoon of pro-biotics a day it helps my #2 movement smooth, not "tough".

Anymore than 1 teaspoon a day, you might have to perform #2 more frequently than you would want.

Also, carry baby wipes! You wouldn't believe the amount of yellowness that comes out even after using the TP.

AR15FAN
January 18, 2007, 07:47 AM
^^^ :eek: :D :(

Prophet
January 18, 2007, 09:11 AM
LOL Funny thread but I always wait until I get home or friends house public restrooms way too nasty :barf: IMO...

stephen426
January 18, 2007, 09:32 AM
Wow... some of you guys have spent WAY too much time thinking about this. I would have to say unless you have a price on your head or you live in a really really bad area, you guys are super paranoid (especially Red Grant).

If I have to go #2 in a public restroom, I find the cleanest stall. The chances of picking up some nasty germs is much more likely than getting jacked while on the toilet. Some public restrooms have square toilet paper holders that I can put my gun on. There is no chance or reaching over and grabbing it. If the toilet paper holder is round or recessed, I just tuck my gun under my arm pit.

Prophet has the right idea... Wait till you get home if at all possible. As for going to a friend's house just to take a dump, they might not appreciate me stinking up their bathrooms. :eek:

Prophet
January 18, 2007, 09:50 AM
I didn't mean make a special trip to a friends house i'm just saying if your at a friends house and you have to its ok there or at home just not in a public restroom.

Troponin
January 18, 2007, 10:28 AM
While the topic itself is interesting, I have to laugh at a couple replies. Never knew that it was so involved. I too set my gun in my little makeshift holster I make when my pants are down, of course, muzzle facing away from me and my bits.

This brings up yet another question. How in the bleep do you guys keep your pants from falling to your ankles while at a urinal when you are carrying a gun? Man, it sure is akward and silly looking when you have your one hand occupied with the obvious, the other on your pants, your elbow holding your gun from falling outward and taking your belt with it, and your knees in that funny looking bent outward squat type stance I like to call the "just in case all my other efforts of holding up my pants fails" position. :D

Prophet
January 18, 2007, 11:13 AM
This brings up yet another question. How in the bleep do you guys keep your pants from falling to your ankles while at a urinal when you are carrying a gun?
You can just unzip unstead of unbuttoning and unzipping. Just unzip and pull it out through the hole in your boxers and through the zipper that way you never loosen the tention of your belt on your holster.:D

Glenn E. Meyer
January 18, 2007, 11:21 AM
We did this scenario at a local IDPA match. Club members met for a hot, habenero breakfast at the local Mexican restaurant. We then set up a stage with a stall. When you felt the movement - you asked to shoot the state - so to speak. You sat on the throne and when an acoustic cue indicated to the RO that you were at the 'ready' - the door of the throne was pulled open. Two targets were right at the door and a popper. You fired both two shoots at the target and one hit the popper. That activated a third target that slid under the side of the stall and had to be neutralized.

The big question was whether to wipe with the dominant hand for better cleanliness or the nondominant hand and risk having poor control of the gun for any more bad guys.

I think they are going to have this one at the National - it will be called:

"The Runs and the Guns".

Troponin
January 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
You can just unzip unstead of unbuttoning and unzipping. Just unzip and pull it out through the hole in your boxers and through the zipper that way you never loosen the tention of your belt on your holster.

Does that fit for you? :p Man, I don't want winky to become hamburger. :D

Socrates
January 18, 2007, 11:29 AM
Having been attacked, and beat over the head with a Walther PPK/S, by three guys, for being an alleged friend of an ass bowling alley manager, which I was not, this is a serious issue. Bathrooms are popular for muggings, and, people even see it about to happen, and don't say anything...

S

WIN71
January 18, 2007, 11:44 AM
...and that's why I also carry my double wrapped plastic bags so that I can put my trouser, and underwear in it if the floor is too grubby, and ditch the outside plastic layer so that my duffle bag wouldn't be contaminated by the foreign materials from the floor.

I also carry another plastic sheet so that I can put my feet on while taking off and putting on the shoes, the trouser, and the underwear if the floor is too grubby

Sounds like Monk when he goes to his girlfriends house.

We did this scenario at a local IDPA match.

Glenn: You practice this one too much and late some night you're liable to blast the little woman !!!

And no, I don't have anything constructive to say. Where I live if there is a restroom at all it's usually in a USFS campground. I don't take a gun inside. I don't take my wallet or truck keys inside either. Or my sun glasses or anything else that can fall out, get kicked, or get lost.

Trip20
January 18, 2007, 12:18 PM
Practical sollution: Hold the holstered pistol until it's time to wipe, or use the "hammock" while doing your business as suggested by the other poster. When you're ready to clean your backside, set the holstered pistol in your "hammock,” clean up, and get dressed.

Not many people carry a duffle bag at all times complete with double wrapped baggies and a plastic drop cloth. That was an amusing post, though.

The most important thing to remember when using a public restroom is to either squat with out touching, or place a generous amount of toilet paper down on the seat (what I call the "ass gasket (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ass+gasket)"). Protect yourself from germs!

For standing at the urinal - no need to undo your belt and button. Just unzip as the other poster suggested, pull through, relieve yourself, put it back, zip up, and wash your hands. Boxers, tight briefs, and most style under garments have a hole in the front to facilitate this maneuver.

I see guys at work all the time in their slacks, shirt, and tie undo their entire mid-section wardrobe to take a wizz. They go just short of having their pants down around their ankles like a 5yr old. These are people with nothing hanging on their belts. I never understand why they go through all this trouble to have to re-tuck in the shirt and what not.

Doug.38PR
January 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
Come on. Seems like we could all figure something out without discussing this on a public forum. Let's have a little class.

Troponin
January 18, 2007, 12:55 PM
Let's have a little class

I thought we did just have class. Was there something else you wanted to teach us? I thought it was an interesting topic. I never realized that restrooms were a major place for muggings and altercations because I never had one there.

You are free NOT to read any thread you like. If it was so repulsive, why did you continue reading?

Glenn E. Meyer
January 18, 2007, 02:54 PM
Can someone actually report a case of a CCW type, who came to ill in the restroom because of his or her mode of carry when on the crapper?

I know the SWAT article mentioned seeing bad guys in the john that were avoided by team tactics, etc.

Beckerich
January 18, 2007, 03:08 PM
I carry a nazi youth knife [ as far as i know its geniune so i like saying it, makes me feel special for owning a piece of history] and who ever said toilets are popular for muggings is right, in a train station toilet in dublin, just arrived, it took three hours to get there so i rushed in, there were three scangers
[ scum bags who were dirty track suits with shaved heads] smoking and i went to a urinal and i cud hear them openly whispering about the fella with longish hair so with my jacket open I brushed it aside so they cud see the hilt of the knife [ i have a pretty belt holster thing for it] and immediately heard the short one who sounded like a gremlim say " jaysus, wud yis look at that?"

so I felt safe after that.

Capt Charlie
January 18, 2007, 03:10 PM
This could be a serious subject guys, but I'm already picking up on the winks, grins, and a few elbows to the ribs.

Let's keep this clean and minus the, um... graphic details.

Edward429451
January 18, 2007, 03:20 PM
Geez, I usually just hold the pistol in my hand until finished. Don't have to sit it down to be forgotten or to be germy. Total control, readiness, and since I take the 4 rules into the stall with me, no problems. Has worked for me.

protectedbyglock
January 18, 2007, 03:20 PM
This thread is hilarious. I'm sorry, I'm still laughing at you, Red Grant. Nothing personal, but if that's not a joke, you are going a little overboard don't you think?
I have only had to go once in a public restroom. I'll admit, pretty awkward with my glock strapped to my belt. However, I just turned my gun and holster inside my pants a little (to keep it from hitting OR touching the floor) and I went about my business. If some weird stuff started going on outside, I would have simply grabbed it. It was still within my reach. At least when you're in the $hitter, you know your back is covered!

However, I'm gonna have to design something along the lines of a "Tactical $hitter Pant", complete with a zippered, removable a$$. Consider it patented. MY IDEA, don't you guys even THINK of stealing it!!
Apparently there is a market for it. Some of you need these things. Think of how good I'm gonna feel, knowing that I saved so many people from the hassle they now endure. Hell, I'm gonna be considered a hero! How many lives do you think I'll save with these pants? :D

Doug.38PR
January 18, 2007, 05:13 PM
This could be a serious subject guys, but I'm already picking up on the winks, grins, and a few elbows to the ribs.

Let's keep this clean and minus the, um... graphic details.

Serious subject? Okay, well I still say the subject is a little crude for discussion on a public forum.....like you said it certainly could do without the graphic details. Still, I have asked the question before, trying to stay away from the specific details, of whether a strip and cavity search is morally right and questioned whether it should be submitted to as a human being.

BUT, without going into graphic details, if I had to step into a restroom stall (which I almost NEVER do, just because they are so filthy these days), I would remove my coat, put the holster and gun in a deep inside coat pocket and hang it on the door. OR take the holster off and place it on a the top back of the commode. If I was wearing a shoulder holster then I would just take the coat off, and unfasten it from my belt. Nobody can see you in those stalls unless they make an effort. If they do and see you with a gun, you won't get in trouble because, in my mind (and I'm sure any cop's too) it is no different than them opening your coat or lifting your shirt to see what cell phone or knife or gun you have on your belt. They have invaded your privacy crossing your boundaries, you have not brandished anything. If they do see the gun and call anyone, the more important question is "what business did they have looking in your stall anyway?"

Glenn E. Meyer
January 18, 2007, 05:21 PM
Sorry for being silly. However, carrying a Nazi youth knife - talk about a defense lawyer's nightmare.

Only crap in legit locations - like Nordstrom's or a high class restaurant. If you frequent low life places - what do you expect?

Use the handicapped stall to have more room to hide the gun.

I again wonder about how many folks with reasonable choice of excretory venue have had trouble with their concealed firearm when on the throne?

Such that they were disarmed, discovered as armed or successfully attacked? Being attacked because you were in the sleaze bag bar at 3:00 AM - no sympathy from me.

Doug.38PR
January 18, 2007, 05:26 PM
Such that they were disarmed, discovered as armed or successfully attacked? Being attacked because you were in the sleaze bag bar at 3:00 AM - no sympathy from me.

+1 GM
Might as well worry about whether we can readily get to our gun when we are in the shower or bath tub. We've seen enough movies where bad guy catches good guy behind a shower stall or taking a bubble bath. Gun under the soap suds or behind the stall (John Wayne as Big Jake with a shotgun comes to mind) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K26s4tlxung

Glenn E. Meyer
January 18, 2007, 05:50 PM
American Handgunner had an hysterical cartoon of a guy ready for action in the shower. It was quite a few years ago and based on the concept of a different gun for each room. It was a satire of Ayoob's article of a different gun for each season.

Had a naked fat guy - like us middle aged to older dudes - in a shower cap and hung with bandoliers of shotgun shells and various guns and knives.

However, the letter column had later mail denouncing the magazine for not taking this issue as important.

Damn, I was going to buy a Winchester 1300 Marine Defender for bathtub defense.

Most of these bizarre scenarios are based on failures of situational awareness such that the bather or crapper didn't take rudementary precautions.

NCHornet
January 18, 2007, 06:35 PM
The Koala Changing stations make a great place to set your piece while you do your business.!!

This can be a serious issue. My best friend was a LA county deputy and while droping a duece in a public restroom he dropped his britches and his Model 60 dropped out on the floor , right towards the guy next store, this is in LA remember. The guy jumped off the throne and ran out of the bathroom , didn't even bother to clean himself. My buddy knew what was coming next so he finished his business quick and got out of there. I have never been made while carrying and I don't plan to, so while some want to laugh at a post like this, it does have it's value!!

protectedbyglock
January 18, 2007, 07:50 PM
That's why I have a blackhawk holster. The gun can't drop out, and if I do get into a fight somewhere, then my attacker is gonna have to rip through 3inches of leather belt to get it. Perfect time to bash him in the head, I do believe. And after you practice with it a little bit, you can draw a lot quicker than you ever thought you'd be able to. It starts to become natural. I'm not sure if it would still be natural in a life or death situation, but I sure hope so!

Anyway, back to question #2. I understand being prepared. Keep your eyes and ears open all the time. This is very important. However, this all seems like overkill. How often do people really get mugged etc. when they are taking a crap? I guess it's a pretty vulnerable spot, really, when you think about it. However, I think I would feel weird laying my gun on a toilet or changing table or toilet paper holder. I don't know why it seems strange. Maybe because I don't like the thought of my piece not being on ME.

This post reminds me of that movie Pulp Fiction. John Travolta's character had the same problem. He left his gun on the kitchen counter while he took a dump. Big mistake, 'cause Bruce Willis blasted his ass with it!!

Big Don
January 18, 2007, 09:39 PM
I needed the laughs this thread has caused :D I have to admit it's a strange topic but one that people have thought about, obviously. Otherwise, it would have died a lonely, responseless death :rolleyes:
The hammock method, always.
The zipper opening method, always.
If you have to tuck your shirt in, go into a stall.
Thanks for the fun and not closing the thread ;)

gdvan01
January 18, 2007, 10:57 PM
Best. Thread. Ever.

:D

Gazpacho
January 19, 2007, 12:29 AM
This has never been much of an issue for me. I carry in a fanny pack. (The Original Tommy's Gunpack) On the can, I hike up the pack until the belt is under my arms. The draw doesn't change. At the urinal, I just pull the pouch up a little. In that instance, the draw is actually a little quicker (no pun intended!) Sitting, standing, walking, running, lying down, belted in the car, the draw doesn't change.

stephen426
January 19, 2007, 12:43 AM
This has never been much of an issue for me. I carry in a fanny pack. (The Original Tommy's Gunpack) On the can, I hike up the pack until the belt is under my arms. The draw doesn't change. At the urinal, I just pull the pouch up a little. In that instance, the draw is actually a little quicker (no pun intended!) Sitting, standing, walking, running, lying down, belted in the car, the draw doesn't change.

While the fanny pack certainly is convenient, nothing screams "GUN" quite like a fanny pack on a guy, especially a large fanny pack (even worse if it is square).

If I am wearing slacks instead of jeans, I usually pocket carry my Glock 26 and carry my wallet in front of it to hide the outline. Pocket carry prevents many of the complications mentioned on this thread. If I carry on my hip, I usually have to go into a stall. Dropping your gun in a public restroom is not considered good form. Dropping your gun in the toilet is even worse. Dropping your gun in the the toilet after you've done your business... Priceless! :eek: :p :D

Gazpacho
January 19, 2007, 01:28 AM
I live in Las Vegas. LOTS of people wear fanny packs. Also it is small, about the side of two paperback books side by side. Finally, I stitched a Nike Swoosh onto the front of it.

People don't give it a FIRST look.

GalilARM
January 19, 2007, 01:53 AM
I take off both my trouser and the underwear. (and yes, shoes, too) I go "full super commando".

My reason is that when performing #2, the trousers and underwear (if you're not going "commando") around my ankle severly limits my mobility if not taken off.


...and that's why I also carry my double wrapped plastic bags so that I can put my trouser, and underwear in it if the floor is too grubby, and ditch the outside plastic layer so that my duffle bag wouldn't be contaminated by the foreign materials from the floor.

I also carry another plastic sheet so that I can put my feet on while taking off and putting on the shoes, the trouser, and the underwear if the floor is too grubby.


Hahahaha sorry this is too funny....I'm sorry it just is. No offense intended, but I bet it takes you a good hour to do your duty. There's nothing wrong with being safe...but there's gotta be a better way mate :)

Doug.38PR
January 19, 2007, 02:59 AM
:barf: ugggghhhh :o I have a hunch this thread isn't going to see another sunrise. The details and literal bathroom humor keep on.

Red Grant
January 19, 2007, 03:05 AM
Yeah, I was kinda afraid of that.


It's obvious most of who posted in this thread haven't read Brent's article.

stephen426
January 19, 2007, 08:36 AM
I live in Las Vegas. LOTS of people wear fanny packs. Also it is small, about the side of two paperback books side by side. Finally, I stitched a Nike Swoosh onto the front of it.

People don't give it a FIRST look.

Gazpacho,

I'm glad the fanny pack works for you. I agree that it is a convenient and easy way to carry a handgun. I guess if lots of people use them in your area, then it won't seem conspicuous. Too bad they aren't more common everywhere else.:confused:

Trip20
January 19, 2007, 09:21 AM
I don't know what's more entertaining, the bizarre rituals described in post #5, or that some can't handle a discussion involving bathroom activities.

If we're discussing responsible behavior such as safe firearm handling in a precarious position (i.e., the literal "being caught with your pants down")... what’s the big deal?

Glenn E. Meyer
January 19, 2007, 09:58 AM
If one has a quality IWB holster it will hold the gun firmly even with your pants down. Thus, one can cant the gun into your pants from the side of your pants without having to remove it.

It probably won't be visible unless someone decides to crawl under the stall.

Next, if you are on the crapper and someone starts hassling you - as in most self defense situations - loud vocalizations in a 'command' voice mode usually announces you are determined to defend yourself.

I really fail to see the problem for folks who choose their throne well and have reasonable awareness. Again, if you hang out in sleaze bag bars - that's life.

GalilARM
January 19, 2007, 10:23 AM
I had been talking up this website for a while to one of my shooting buddies, and I guess he finally ventured over to the site last night because I got a message saying "so that firing line forum you told me about....yeah they talk about how to defend yourself while going number two....you sure about that place?" A little more reading shows you guys are both serious and informative though. This thread is just a little....different.

Trip20
January 19, 2007, 10:58 AM
If you frequent low life places - what do you expect?

Being attacked because you were in the sleaze bag bar at 3:00 AM - no sympathy from me.

Again, if you hang out in sleaze bag bars - that's life.

I see a pattern here. Separate from your issue with people who do not hang out in your opinion of the ideal social atmospheres is the fact that not all bathroom muggings or similar crimes will take place in back alley biker bar full of ex cons.

Likelihood increased in those locations? Sure. But that’s not the point.

Regardless of where our differing lifestyles take us, we all have a right to be safe and free from attack. So it matters little for the purpose of this thread whether or not the scenario takes place in your contemptuous sleezy bar, or the Nordstrom where you can frolic unarmed because it’s so safe.

This thread is about handling a firearm while takin’ a poo. Not about approving or disapproving where one poos.

Glenn E. Meyer
January 19, 2007, 11:15 AM
My point is the extreme paranoia and tactical peeing and pooping protocols can be modified by doing one's business in legitimate venues such that one reduces the probability of attack while on the throne.

It is the same kind of analysis that leads folks to conclude that a J frame is sufficient for most concealed carry situations. If you use common sense, perhaps you don't have to sit in Condition Orange while you honk away.

The SWAT article described some less than pristine venues for possible attacks.

I'm sorry if my analysis of situational awarness offends your lifestyle choices. I choose to poop in the classy restrooms of Nordstroms or the homey venues of Cracker Barrel when on the road. Most nice motels at exits on the Interstates have restrooms.

Again - we have the claim that public restrooms are prime locations for muggings. Give me a case of a CCW type with appropriate situational awareness that got into a gun fight, was mugged, lost his or her from a quality holster while on the throne.

Otherwise, the thread is a joke and I treat it as such. :D

Trip20
January 19, 2007, 11:54 AM
“If you choose to live in a bad area – no sympathy from me.”

Well, we know that’s a load of crap. Hey, is that a pun? :D

We wouldn’t have an abundance of home defense chat around here if all bad things happened in bad neighborhoods because a majority of us, I’ll wager, don’t live in those stereotypical bad neighborhoods. But we still discuss tactics and strategies involved with defending our blissful suburbia homesteads nonetheless.

Just because I might find it easier to provide cases of home defense situation more easily than cases of bathroom defense situations, neither qualifies the former, nor disqualifies the latter as a topic of consideration.

Give me a case of a CCW type with appropriate situational awareness that got into a gun fight, was mugged, lost his or her from a quality holster while on the throne.

Pfff. You put all those qualifiers in there to make it impossible to find a case. What matters is that the below articles proves attacks happen in restrooms. In the cases I link below it shows it doesn't take a sleezy bars at 3am to facilitate an attack.

Here are articles covering attacks that happened in restrooms: Arby's (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070109/News01/70109033), Pizza Hut (http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/4400007.html), Central Park Restroom (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12262006/news/regionalnews/tourist_mugged_in_central_park_bathroom_regionalnews_john_mazor_____and_philip_messing.htm).

You’re not going to get any argument from me that the choices we make prior to dropping our drawers lend to the likelihood or lack of encounters with seedy characters. I think I implied as much in my post.

I'm sorry if my analysis of situational awarness [sic] offends your lifestyle choices.

Nice try.

markj
January 19, 2007, 03:15 PM
I once read an article about this as a few LEO have actually mis placed weapons when using public restrooms.

I for one never use public restrooms, I eat only cheese and peanut butter when away from home so I am plugged up enough it isnt a problem, then when I get home out comes 2 or 3 cans of peaches, soon after the "plug" comes out and I am OK again in my own home :)

Of course I have several 12 ga pumps and .45 1911s in the restroom close to hand cause an attack will happen, oh yes it will happen.....

I also have several SS weapons hanging from the shower head and a gun under the mattress. When I go out, it is like that guy in the movie "gonna get you sucker" you know the guy, he has a table top covered with guns he straps on and puts in his pockets, then he falls down the stairs, every gun goes off one at a time :)


I gotta go to the range now and shoot a bunch I cant wait to tell them about this site :) and this thread :)

Glad I live in Iowa and not where most of you guys live...

Wildalaska
January 19, 2007, 05:08 PM
This is a joke thread, right:rolleyes:

Wildnopersonwithn ormalolafactorysensewouldcomenearmeinapublicrestroomwhilstiam2ingAlaska

oldbillthundercheif
January 19, 2007, 06:10 PM
Another vote for the drawers-hammock. I lube my 1911 with graphite so grease stains in odd places are not an issue.

If you keep your carry piece dripping with CLP, this may not be the best option.

Capt Charlie
January 19, 2007, 10:20 PM
OK, so some have asked why I've left this thread open, and some question the seriousness of the matter.

Time for a short story.

A few years ago, one of my people made an arrest. It was pretty routine, a 68 yr. old male wanted on a bench warrant. Seems he didn't appear in court for a traffic violation.

The officer took it casually. He only did a cursory pat down before placing the man in the cruiser. He brought the man into the station, and I noted without further thought that the man seemed a bit preoccupied with his groin area. Strange, but we get all kinds.

After booking, he was transported to the correctional center. Minutes later, I got a call from the Lt. there, and he was furious. It seems this kindly old gentleman had a loaded, .38 spl. J frame tucked away in his crotch.

What's that got to do with this thread? Well, the arresting officer fell into the same trap that we're all susceptible to. We tend to avoid situations that put us in socially or politically uncomfortable situations, and THAT can be a serious tactical weakness. In this situation, the officer did what comes naturally to most of us; he avoided what most would think of as intimate contact with another male. He avoided a pat down of the man's crotch.

Police academies routinely teach a thorough pat down, done in a professional manner, but I constantly have to review cruiser videos, and frequently see officers making this same, potentially deadly mistake.

Granted, few non-LEO's here will have the opportunity to do a pat down or frisk, but you will still instinctively avoid addressing situations that make you uncomfortable. The bathroom situation immediately comes to mind.

Life is gritty. You can't pick and choose the tactical situations you might find yourself in. With that in mind, you can't afford to ignore thinking and planning for them in advance. To do so leaves a huge and potentially fatal gap in your own defenses. If you're going to play ball, make sure you cover all the bases.

Doug.38PR
January 19, 2007, 10:48 PM
Very true Capt. Very good point. The subject of how to handle your gun in the mens room is worth discussing, but aren't we making more out of this than we need to. We are talking about a small enclosed concealed area like a restroom stall. It's like being in your car's front seat. Everything is within arms reach. A gun on the back of commode in a hip holster or hanging on the door in your coat or even shoulder holster is easily accessible and hidden from public view (it is a bathroom stall). Of course you do want to use a little good sense and watch what public restrooms you use (as Mr. Meyer indicated, a sleezy bar at 3:00 am, bad idea but a clean restaraunt or hotel or office building during normal business hours, usually okay) Isn't that all that needs to be said?

wayneinFL
January 20, 2007, 12:30 AM
I can see three very good reasons for discussing this.

1. Weapons left in restrooms on the back of the toilet. It happens.

2. AD's in the restroom fumbling with a gun someone didn't really think about. At an IPSC match, I overheard a couple of cops discussing a police chief who gave up his gun after sending two toilets to their watery grave. One at the station, the other at a health club.

3. Someone attacking you in the restroom. There was an incident in the "It Happened to me" column in Combat Handguns last year. IIRC, he was mugged at a urinal in a restroom in a rest area.

Personally, I don't worry too much about it as I'm usually just carrying a J-frame in my pocket. If I am carrying a pistol IWB it stays in the holster. My holster has good enough tension to keep it upside down or when I'm running. It works okay while I'm pulling my pants down as well.

GalilARM
January 20, 2007, 11:20 AM
The bathroom scene from the movie True Lies comes to mind for some reason...:)

gyp_c2
January 20, 2007, 04:58 PM
...I was just thinkin' that there might be some folks that don't have a lot of choices when it comes to the locations available for relief...

A truck driver is the most obvious...since they are frequently required to be in odd places at odd hours and completely...alone, some data exchange might not be a waste of time...hmmm?

Probably others, but it would seem reasonable to me that someone hauling expensive cargo, haz-mat, or just sanitary napkins might have a slightly different perspective..:rolleyes:

Socrates
January 29, 2007, 05:36 AM
I regularly go to areas of the competing murder capitols of the US, Richmond and Oakland, and, my travels take me into areas most folks don't want to go to.

This is a SERIOUS issue, and, it's a very difficult one for me.

So far, my solution is thunderwear, with a Beretta 22 short.

I'm hoping to be able to move up to the .357 360PD, if I can make it a bit more secure, and, cut the grip down a bit...

S

Eghad
January 29, 2007, 08:41 AM
Try going to the bathroom in full battle rattle with your m16A2. Now thats a challenge. Or back in the day before porta potties when you had the slit trench and it was tripod mode. On some days due to the medications I take I probably wouldnt have to shoot the perp he would probably seize up when he yanked the door open. Those arent courtesy flushes I give I call em survival flushes some days.

On the serious side I wonder how many assualts happen in public restrooms?

Glenn E. Meyer
January 29, 2007, 10:36 AM
Had to use the facilities at the IDPA range. Many strange looking, heavily armed men around. However, with situational awarenes during the sit down - I survived.

Socrates
January 29, 2007, 12:35 PM
On the serious side I wonder how many assualts happen in public restrooms?

There are a couple restrooms in San Francisco that I wouldn't go into unless in full battle armour.;) Down by Ocean Beach, but across the highway. Thought they would be a good place to change into a wetsuit. BOY was I wrong...

I've been beat over the head with a Walther PPKS in Mel's Bowl in Alemeda, and, that once is enough for me...

S

Lane
January 29, 2007, 03:22 PM
if this hasn't been said before forgive me i have not read all the posts and i dont know too much about concealed carry but why not just stick with a shoulder rig?

tepin
January 29, 2007, 11:03 PM
I put the gun itself in my underwear between my legs; its like a hammock. This might not work for you guys that wear thongs or go commando. Sometimes the gun will pick up a few pubic hairs on the slide or on the ejection port but they just blow-off. The nice thing about 'hammock carry' is you will not forget the gun in the stall, it cannot be seen by the person in the stall next to you and if you need the gun its readily accessible. Great question. :rolleyes:

Covert Mission
January 30, 2007, 05:31 PM
re: "The big question was whether to wipe with the dominant hand for better cleanliness or the nondominant hand and risk having poor control of the gun"

ROTFL! Now that is the question of the day! Depends on which part of the world you're in too... left for wiping, right for eating, or is it the reverse, dang it! :)

Doug.38PR
January 30, 2007, 06:54 PM
:o *sigh* what is this thread coming to?

Big Don
January 30, 2007, 07:07 PM
re: "The big question was whether to wipe with the dominant hand for better cleanliness or the nondominant hand and risk having poor control of the gun"

:eek: If someone's that bad with the aim, I'd hate to see what happens when they're shooting a gun! :D

Is this thread circling the drain yet???? (So to speak)

Anon
January 30, 2007, 07:56 PM
This thread does seem to help sort some things out...

If you actually carry a concealed handgun, you have already worked out the problem posed in the original post (just as you have worked out things like getting into the car, or reaching for an item on the top shelf in a store).

The people who treat the question in a laughing way, have never carried concealed in a waistband holster.

Capt Charlie
January 30, 2007, 09:22 PM
Is this thread circling the drain yet???? (So to speak)
It's heading in that direction. Come on guys, clean it up! :rolleyes:

Glenn E. Meyer
January 31, 2007, 10:26 AM
The people who treat the question in a laughing way, have never carried concealed in a waistband holster.

And you know this how?

stolivar
February 1, 2007, 10:22 PM
Why in the hell do you take your gun out of your holster for in the first place......

I see no reason to remove your weapon while going number #2:eek:



steve

Edward429451
February 2, 2007, 02:01 PM
Why in the hell do you take your gun out of your holster for in the first place......



Some of us carry pretty heavy weapons and its just easier than rebuckling the belt around the knees and all that. I don't often use public restrooms anyway, only in emergencies...

rxraptor02
February 2, 2007, 03:14 PM
Colostomy bag, problem solved

badbob
February 2, 2007, 05:37 PM
Colostomy bag, problem solved

Um... might be a good backup, if you're in a really rough area.:)

badbob

Samurai
February 3, 2007, 10:27 AM
Haven't there been about 50 of these threads??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I never use public restrooms, unless I can absolutely help it.

That said, LOCK THE STALL!!!!! If you're so worried about the Zombie Attack that you sit there and fret about whether one of the Flesh Eaters is going to reach in under the stall and grab your gun, then HOW in the WORLD do you expect to relax enough to go to the restroom! If it's really "eating you" so much, AFTER you lock the stall, take the thing out and set it on the back of the toilet seat, stick it in your boot, swallow it, or if your stall has a coat hook then hang it by the trigger guard. Then, sit on the john and pray the Zombies do not hear you.

Really, I understand that some folks just sit and think about this sort of thing, but this question (repeated as many times as it has been) is absolutely ABSURD!

Glenn E. Meyer
February 3, 2007, 05:38 PM
1. Action report - went to Sears at Ingram Mall in San Antonio - sometimes thought to have gang members there -although, I've never had a problem with my warrior alertness. However, the urge came on. Tactically, I chose Dillards - an upscale-ish store and it has the can by the service counter providing some alert personnel as first warning. I used the handicap stall for more room such that my arsenal would not be seen. I did not hang concertina wire around the top of the stall or the bottom. However, mission accomplished. I was worried.

2. Hanging your gun on the hook - there is tale, my warrior friends, of a LEO who hung a semi (might have been a 3rd gen Smith) on a hook - the gun's trigger was nudged and it spun like a pinwheel, bouncing the trigger of the hook and emptying the mag - for fun and games in the precinct office!

Samurai
February 5, 2007, 09:48 AM
Glen, you don't have a story about someone swallowing one, do you???

... I'm just asking.

Dreadnought
February 7, 2007, 02:36 AM
I regularly go to areas of the competing murder capitols of the US, Richmond and Oakland, and, my travels take me into areas most folks don't want to go to.
Fortunately for you, you get to leave Richmond. I live here, but I'll be danged if criminals are going to drive me from my beautiful city.

My biggest concern, since I carry open-top IWBs, is someone else in the next stall grabbing the pistol from the holster. I usually try to use the end/handicapped stall because it is bigger and usually cleaner. Most of the germs you will catch something from come from dangling certain parts into places they shouldn't be (got that one from Mythbusters).
I am kind of a germ freak like Monk, I use a paper towel if I don't have to pull a lever to get it to open the door and lock it, I don't I sit down, I then use the towel to flush, open the stall door, turn off the faucet (if necessary), and open the door to leave. I usually keep any of my clothing from touching the floor. Public bathrooms are sometimes filthy, but I've not had a problem with them after getting over a childhood phobia of public p1ssers.

Also, never use a urinal. Bad juju.

Glenn E. Meyer
February 8, 2007, 02:14 PM
We now know the answer to this problem - get some Astronaut equipment and you can avoid the paranoid poop syndrome. :D

I'm sure Cheaper than Dirt, Midway, etc. will start stocking the tactical pooper soon.

Capt Charlie
February 8, 2007, 02:20 PM
It seems the only thing left to be gained from this thread is a few chuckles, and I think we've had enough of those to last us for awhile.

Closed.