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OBIWAN
January 9, 2007, 03:25 PM
The following is an excerpt from a review of a BUG class

I think there are other lessons that can be pulled from this experience as well

Notice the time element involved in the different operations

"The most interesting eye opening section of the course though had to be the transition drill we ran for time. This started out with the shooter in a kneeling position over a mat or jacket on the ground. Their primary pistol was held at the Ready, but out of action because of the induced Type 3 Malfunction (Double Feed). The shooter had to come up on target, press the trigger, conduct a Tap/Rack/Bang which didn't clear, so the shooter had to look into the ejection port. Upon realizing they had a Double Feed, the shooter then dropped the primary pistol and transitioned to their BUG and finished with a NSR to the body. The average shooter time for this drill was five seconds.

We then ran that same drill, but had the shooter clear the double feed and finish with the NSR from their primary pistol. That course of action added anywhere from three to eight seconds to the time of just transitioning to the BUG. Three seconds is a long time in a gunfight.

That one drill made everyone in the class a believer on carrying a BUG."

NCHornet
January 9, 2007, 05:40 PM
Good story on the training, but from your own times reported it could be faster to clear the DF than to go for the BUG. This is why it is very important to practice clearing a jamb. I will be honest I don't carry a BUG and have never had a failure of any type through my Glock, but this is not a reason not to practice.

OBIWAN
January 9, 2007, 05:46 PM
Uh...no


added anywhere from three to eight seconds to the time of just transitioning to the BUG.

NCHornet
January 10, 2007, 08:16 AM
Sorry mis read your post. So clearing the jamb added another 3-8 sec from just transfering to the BUG.
However there are many variables that can play with these time figures. What type of jamb, what type of gun, what type of BUG, how it is carried, etc.... I will tell you that I can clear most failures in a shorter time period than dropping the primary, going for the BUG and getting on aim. Again practice is everything, one way or the other.

Gazpacho
January 11, 2007, 11:20 PM
NCHornet, so what's your procedure for a catastrophic failure of your primary firearm? (By "catastrophic" I mean nothing short of field stripping the weapon and replacing parts will restore your weapon to functional status.)

Powderman
January 12, 2007, 02:52 AM
There are two types of failure drills that I have learned and practice, and that is for Phase I or Phase 2 malfunctions.

Phase I is simply that the gun doesn't fire. In this case, tap-rack-bang.

For Phase II, first get the old magazine out of the gun. Next, rack the slide repeatedly to clear the chamber. Insert fresh magazine, chamber and re-engage.

Note: A second Phase I malfunction should be treated as a Phase II.

NCHornet
January 12, 2007, 07:47 AM
NCHornet, so what's your procedure for a catastrophic failure of your primary firearm? (By "catastrophic" I mean nothing short of field stripping the weapon and replacing parts will restore your weapon to functional status.)

Show me how many times a Glock has had such a failure. I agree it is a mechanical object and apt to failure, but it don't happen very often, so I feel comfortable relying on my sidearm. I have put thousands of rounds through it and it has never had any type of failure, although I practice to clear a failure to fire as well as a failure to feed, and I feel a further failure is very unlikely if my firearm is properly maintained. Let the flaming begin. I simply don't feel the need to have 2 guns, 4 mags, 3 knifes, 2 flashlights, 2 multi tools, etc... I am not a SWAT member. I am not bashing anyone who feels the need to carry all these. We simply all need to carry what we feel comfortable with. Some may be less, some may be more.
Good Day

HuntAndFish
January 13, 2007, 01:48 AM
That is interesting OBIWAN. How was the BUG carried? Are we talking ankle holsters and that was the reason we are starting from a kneeling position?

Deaf Smith
January 13, 2007, 04:06 PM
There are more ways than just a jam to prevent your primary from working. Besides such as a double feed, kaboom (man now THAT would be embarrising, but I promise you will drop that gun when it kabooms), gunshot strikes the weapon (it has happend before), disabled gun arm for many reasons that forces you to drop the weapon, etc.... so the idea of a BUG is not bad.

Question is, how long would it take to get your BUG out and shooting? Ankle rigs, shoulder holster, IWB, pocket, groin, and other carries all have different times for presentation. Plus if you are well trained to use your weak hand at shooting, then using the off hand might speed it up.

My idea of a BUG is one on the opposite hip, carried the same way as the primary (and might even be just a mirror image of the primary weapon.) Well trained use of the weak hand at drawing as well as shooting would make it much easier to bring the weapon into play.

Unless it's a very simple jam, like a stove pipe or the gun just goes 'click' (and thus a fast tap-rack-bang is called for), then I would think about just using the weak hand to draw the second weapon and keep agoing.

Anon
January 13, 2007, 07:47 PM
BUG.... OK, I can see it for military or police, but for regular folks... a whole lot of things need to go wrong before going to a BUG.


Life threatening incident that can be solved by a gun.
Shot[s] fired by good-guy that didn't resolve the issue.
Jam that happens in a gun/ammo combination that you practice with/trust to carry.
Jam is not resolved with clearing drill.
Bad guy[s] have stuck around even though someone has been shooting at him/them.


Not to say it's possible to need a back up gun, but the odds..... it's hard to fathom. You are more likely to be attacked by a shark in Iowa.

Glenn E. Meyer
January 14, 2007, 08:17 PM
95% of DGUs have no shots fired, so you don't need any ammo at all, if you just go by the odds. :D

Decide your risks and make the decision you feel comfortable with. If you plan for the extreme and not the mean ( the strategy of the statistical novice), you might want to be able to handle the rare risks.

buzz_knox
January 14, 2007, 08:41 PM
95% of DGUs have no shots fired, so you don't need any ammo at all, if you just go by the odds.

Exactly. If you have to draw your weapon, you are already having the absolute worst day of your life, by having won the concealed carry lottery. Why expect that suddenly your luck will improve and everything else will suddenly go your way?

Glenn E. Meyer
January 15, 2007, 10:43 AM
Because, I read it on the Internet that the average gun fight takes 2 to 3 rounds and the civilian is always successful. I also carry the best manstopping JHP bullets.

Captain38
January 15, 2007, 10:52 AM
Think about it! Is a "New York Reload" fast as a "New York Minute"? Probably not, but it's comforting to have that option.