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JoshB
January 9, 2007, 10:09 AM
I went to the local gas station the other night to put air in my tires the other night. As I went to start the machine, a guy about 25yds away asked me if I was driving this way (he was on an unlight part of the street). I told him that I was heading the other way. This guy was the typical gang banger type and when he started walking towards me [he had previously been standing in the dark] as I bent down to fill my tires, I made sure my sweater came up enough so that you could tell something was underneath, but not necessarily exposing my pistol in the process. [They guy was still a good distance away, so retention wasn't an issue and if he got too close, I would have stood up and asked him to leave]. The guy walked up to about 15yds, stopped and went back to his original position. I finished filling my tires and then then left. I didn't call the cops afterwards b/c I was on my way to church and didn't want the hassle of explaining all this to them.

Doug.38PR
January 9, 2007, 10:40 AM
sounds like you were aware of your surroundings and had a plan. Good job. I think you can call the police and just let them know someone on whatever corner you were on might be hasseling people so they can keep an eye out. I don't think that involves a whole lot of explainations and such.

Gbro
January 10, 2007, 09:12 PM
I think the Mutt got an unfavorable read off you. You didn't exibit any nervousness in the way you acted. IMO

Gas stations around here we leave the truck running while paying. I like it here!

Gbro

NCHornet
January 11, 2007, 11:28 AM
Not sure I would have bent down to fill my tire up, thus taking my eye of the BG, but it sounds like you were ready and I give you a A+ for recognizing the possible threat and you prepared yourself, without going to far, wel done, carry on!!

Thekatar
January 11, 2007, 11:49 AM
Could the tires have waited until morning?

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 01:36 PM
Good Job!!! But I wouldn't have taken my eyes off of him if he was going to continue to look at me I would have stared him down like he was doing me when you show no fear is when they back down expecially if he was alone. They don't tend to act unless they have a ton of back up.

Dino.
January 11, 2007, 02:06 PM
Maybe I'm a little slow here, but can someone please explain to me what the individual who "asked for a ride" did wrong?

This guy was the typical gang banger type ...

Could you please educate me on the "typical gang banger type"? :)

Seriously Josh ... why did you find this situation so intimidating or frightening?
Where was the "threat"?


I just don't get it.
This is not the first thread I've read here about an every-day occurance interpretted as a life threatening situation.

C'mon people. :rolleyes:

GalilARM
January 11, 2007, 02:19 PM
^^Typical Gang Banger Type? You want us to spell it out? Well I'll throw all political correctness out the window and say this:

-Often....erm...ethnic?
-Often walks with a swagger, sometimes with one hand on the crotchal region of the pants, in order to keep them from falling off.
-Hat often worn on head in any manner but the regular facing-forward method
-Often found talking in a threatening manner but usually cannot back it up.
-Often in posession of illicit substances or knives, occasionally guns not commonly above .380 in caliber
-Often closely followed by a Law Enforcement Officer!

All joking aside, if someone fitting that description was approaching me from the shadows of a vacant gas station parking lot, I'd be on alert too. I think you'd be crazy not to be. We live in a different time now, I doubt he was approaching to ask directions to the nearest church...

Dino.
January 11, 2007, 03:00 PM
^^Typical Gang Banger Type? You want us to spell it out? Well I'll throw all political correctness out the window and say this:

-Often....erm...ethnic?
-Often walks with a swagger, sometimes with one hand on the crotchal region of the pants, in order to keep them from falling off.
-Hat often worn on head in any manner but the regular facing-forward method
-Often found talking in a threatening manner but usually cannot back it up.
-Often in posession of illicit substances or knives, occasionally guns not commonly above .380 in caliber
-Often closely followed by a Law Enforcement Officer!

First off ... thank you for editing your "description" as not to sound as racist. ;)


All joking aside, if someone fitting that description was approaching me from the shadows of a vacant gas station parking lot, I'd be on alert too. I think you'd be crazy not to be. We live in a different time now, I doubt he was approaching to ask directions to the nearest church...

We live in a "different time" ... agreed.
But I think we also may live in a different place geographically which would explain quite a bit.
I live in Prince Georges Co., Maryland.
What some see as the "gang banger type" in other parts of the country are simply seen as "fashon" or "style" here. When I was younger, I had hair down to my arse and wore some pretty wild clothes. And no, I didn't do drugs, and no, I never had any trouble with the law. Still, I was stereotyped as such.
The truth was, I played guitar in a few local rock bands and the way I wore my hair and the clothes I wore was "the look" at the time.
Today, my son (14) wears baggy pants, listens to rap, etc ... and I would hate for him to be mistaken for a "gang banger" by some narrow-minded, paranoid, CCW holder who is afraid of the dark. :rolleyes:

I dunno ...
I guess I just don't get it.
Maybe where you live, this is rare.
But where i live, it's not uncommon to be approached at a gas station by someone fitting your description of a "gang banger" asking for spare change, a ciggerette, or a ride. That's not to say it may lead to something more serious, but the act of asking for a ride by itself lends no threat that I can see.

JMO

horseshoe3
January 11, 2007, 03:18 PM
Dino,

I try not to get into arguements anymore, but can you tell me what you think Josh did wrong? He met a guy who for whatever reason made him nervous and did his best to appear calm, confident and capable of defending himself all the while avoiding confrontation. This seems to me, a perfect example of how to handle the situation.

Dino.
January 11, 2007, 03:41 PM
I'm not saying his actions were necessarily "wrong", as fortunately he did not actually draw his weapon.
My comments were based more on the percieved "threat".

It's been my observation that there are alot of threads posted here from people who admit to drawing their weapons (or who come close to drawing their weapons) based on common daily occurances such as someone asking for a ride, selling things door to door, or even a "suspicious" vehicle parked outside their home. What's even more concerning is the fact that these people feel compelled to post stuff like this as "life threatening" situations.

I guess the interpretation of "percieved threat" is up to those who encounter these situations, but IMO, the subject of alot of these threads are simply over the top and could quite possibly lead to an unlawful shooting.

Again, I don't necessarily have a problem with Josh's actions, as there were none. But the thought of a "percieved threat" based solely on someone's attire and the fact that it was dark outside should be addressed with concern, not an "atta boy" IMO.

jcoiii
January 11, 2007, 03:45 PM
You know, sometimes that little voice just says "danger!"

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 03:53 PM
Well no one said that it was a life threating experience he just said "experience at the gas station" did he not... What you described of your son means nothing... I'm 22 Listen to hip-hop and drive a low rider and wear not the tightest of clothes but that doesn't mean I personify(sp) myself as a thug there is a certain kind of swagger and you know that.

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 03:56 PM
Dino, i understand where your comin from. you have to understand, whats popular with these types is the "gang" lifestyle. while most of them are about as hardcore as a froot loop, they still "act" like a thug. its what makes them cool to their buddies. we have lots of those around here and even stupid little "gangs". now keep in mind, my county consists 75% of retired elders. these kids are not hardcore. but they are in large groups and like to jump people that they have a problem with. none of them will mess with you one on one. they dont mess with me or my friends, probly cause were more or less rednecks, and they know we dont mess around. they are a drain on society and i blame the media and the rappers that think its cool to be in gangs and whatnot. these punks just try to get attention and they succeed. they get our attention and we make fun of them.

horseshoe3
January 11, 2007, 04:05 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Dino. It seems that your objection is with Josh's profiling rather than his actions. While I understand and respect your sentiment, I simply cannot find fault with labeling anyone as a potential threat IN YOUR OWN MIND. As long as you keep your thoughts to yourself and don't slander that person or escalate the situation, there is nothing wrong with keeping an eye on someone. You have not done him any harm by simply being alert.

WIN71
January 11, 2007, 04:09 PM
I haven't tried this so I'm curious:

if he was going to continue to look at me I would have stared him down like he was doing me when you show no fear is when they back down especially if he was alone.

Are you showing no fear because you are armed or do you use the same tactic when you're unarmed.

I guess I worry about things that will normally not occur. If you're in a dark gas station in a known gang area and you intentionally semi expose a concealed weapon to quell a perceived dangerous situation fine. I'd be more worried that the guy is in fact a good guy and the next thing he does is go into the counter clerk and tell him there's a guy in the shadows in the parking lot with a gun. Strange things occur when the cops get a call of an armed subject lurking around a gas station in the dark in a "gang" area.

JoshB
January 11, 2007, 04:11 PM
+1 GalilARM horseshoe3 Prophet

the thought of a "percieved threat" based solely on someone's attire and the fact that it was dark outside should be addressed with concern, not an "atta boy" IMO.

I think I clearly mentioned that the guy was acting suspiciously in addition to
GalilARM's definition of a gangbanger. He was hiding in the dark, approached me from the dark and then returned when he knew I wasn't the type he wanted to mess with.

This guy was the typical gang banger type and when he started walking towards me [he had previously been standing in the dark]

Dino.
January 11, 2007, 04:13 PM
Well no one said that it was a life threating experience he just said "experience at the gas station" did he not... What you described of your son means nothing... I'm 22 Listen to hip-hop and drive a low rider and wear not the tightest of clothes but that doesn't mean I personify(sp) myself as a thug there is a certain kind of swagger and you know that.

The need to display a weapon tells me there was some sort of "percieved threat". What that threat was is still not clear to me but that's okay.
I didn't post here to start any arguments.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "swagger", but I do know enough not to "judge a book by it's cover". Never have, never will.

It's the fact that others do that concerns me. ;)

JoshB
January 11, 2007, 04:16 PM
I do know enough not to "judge a book by it's cover". Never have, never will.

I once heard it said, "if it looks like sh-t, smells like sh-t, then it is sh-t."
If it looks like trouble, smells like trouble, acts like trouble, then it is trouble!"

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:19 PM
WIN71,

I would do it anytime I'm not scared to fight hell I grew up fighting. But I would never get into a fight with my gun on me because of the risk of it getting into the wrong hands. I know I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this but I don't mind to fight, because having a CCW I should hold myself at a higher standard than everyone other civilan and never ever fight. But if you think that way then you need to rethink why you got a CCW in the first place if your scared to fight with someone then you don't need a gun because that would make it even easier for you to get away from your fear. Just look at it this way if you have the mentality of : well this guy is bigger than me and he wants to fight but he is unarmed I don't want to fight because he might hurt me well if he hits me I'll just shoot him : Then you don't need a gun in the first place and your probably going to prison for along time and you'll never see that gun again.

Dino,

He never said he showed his weapon he simply let the print show more than you normally would. The guy never saw what the weapon was it could have been a cellphone on his side all he saw was the bulge.

Samurai
January 11, 2007, 04:22 PM
Now look, Dino., nobody's trying to be racist, here. (At least, I don't think any of you are, and shame on you if you are.) But, we all know what IS and what IS NOT polite behavior in our particular region/demographic. All the poster is saying is that the way the guy behaved set him on edge. He did not necessarilly say that the guy conformed to any particular race/creed.

What is socially acceptable in Maryland, New York, or those parts, might be downright scary in small-town Kansas, Alabama, or somewhere else. Nobody's throwing racial slurs around, here. But, when someone is behaving in a way that gives you the chills, you don't ignore that. You wake up, pay attention, and start your brain; and that's exactly what the poster did.

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 04:24 PM
i agree with Prophet. sometimes, fightin is neccessary. i grew up fightin too. im only 20 and will never back down from a fight. when i join the Marines, ill be fightin for my country and hopefully for the next 20+ years.

FrankyCorleone
January 11, 2007, 04:25 PM
I fit the bill of your typical gang banger description almost to the T. I dress like that, yes I occasionally grab my crotch. If I ask you for a ride, and you draw on me, we may have a issue.

Just because someone is 'ethnic' and dresses like that doesn't mean they aren't good people.

I love how people are like 'Oh it's dark, there is black people let me roll up and lock my doors they must be gang bangers because they're on the corner'

get out of here, i notice alot of ignorant statements on gun forums about gang bangers and ethnicity and dress ,I think it's rediciulous. I am too from MD.. and it's a daily occurance. Everyone in my city must be a gang banger because they dress like this.


....
Maybe if you experience the city a bit more than just driving through you wouldn't be so scared and tempted to draw a gun because someone is reaching in their coat to get a lighter as they ask you for a cigarette.

Get real.

I don't CCW, I have friends who live in the 'projects', I frequently these places often and nobody ever causes me problem...


And you guys know what?People who are gang bangers and drug dealers, aren't going to mess with you if you don't mess with them. They don't want the police involved, they just want to do their business and get money.

If you're that scared of ethnicity and people who wear hats other than straight.

If the guy was wearing flannel and a jean jacket would you have been so paranoid?If he was white?

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:27 PM
I wish I could join with our boys but they won't take me...Had a motorcycle wreck about 4 years ago and messed my knee up considerably... Atleast I work for the government (computer tech for the state of Texas) But thats that.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:31 PM
I don't CCW, I have friends who live in the 'projects', I frequently these places often and nobody ever causes me problem...


Thats because you fit in with them, You know it and I know it if a white dude dressed like he got alil money goes to the projects and goes up to a bunch of "ethnic" guys on the corner you know they are going to prey on him.

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 04:32 PM
i have one friend that dresses and talks like a gang banger. hes from Rhode Island so i dont blame him as its the style up there and he grew up in a bad part of town. his father is a very respectful, avid, gun collector and gunsmith. my friend grew up around firearms and knows how to handle one. his dad gave him a .32 revolver and instead of carryin it around like most gangbangers would do at 20, hes waitin to get his CCW. hes got my back and my friends back whenever we need it, even against people that dress, act, and talk like him. for this, i have respect for him and have learned not to judge a book by its cover. now we rag on each other but its all in good fun.

FrankyCorleone
January 11, 2007, 04:37 PM
If you go up to them, act nice, give em a handshake and don't act scared and ask em where the closest gas station is, they aint gunna rob you.

When I am working I am constantly dressed nice, I drive a Cadillac also. When I am dressed differently,for work, people don't treat me any different.

I know of a few bad instances of rednecks from when me and my 'ethnic' friends went into small towns. I guess we should stay in the city and you should stay in the woods.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:42 PM
Man you good and well know that "ethnic" dudes don't respect white dudes unless they have done some crazy stuff. For some reason most "ethnic" people think white people are soft for some reason or another.

FROM DAVE CHAPELL: "when you see that big group of black guys walking down the street and one or two white dudes. Don't fear the black dudes, fear the white dudes cuz there ain't no telling what kind of crazy **** they have done to gain those black dudes respect."

and he isn't the only one that makes it clear.

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 04:43 PM
i love the woods as much as you love the city. it doesnt mean we should stay in one or the other. if someone in the sticks is disrespectful, handle it. if they dont back it up, why worry? this is how i handle anyone that disrespects me.

edit. why should i have to be nice to someone in order for them to not rob me? robbin people is for the lazy dumbasses who cant get a job cause no one will hire them.

FrankyCorleone
January 11, 2007, 04:47 PM
I'm nice to everyone, I been through some crap in my youth and turned straight edge. However I still carry myself the way I always have. I just do me, nobody knows how it feels to be another race.

Personally I am scared of cops, because they love messing with people based on what they drive and how they dress.

I've been searched alot and held at gunpoint for nothing.

Sorry for having my ears pierced and dressing the way I do.


Let me put on my 'Stop Snitching' shirt.

I teach alot of my friends from the 'hood' how to properly shoot and everything. I wonder what some of you would take on that.

Alot of them have shot my AR and my Glock here at my house.

PS: I live in the country now.
PSS: They treat me differently.

and LMAO @ gun store owners treating me like I don't know anything about guns

GalilARM
January 11, 2007, 04:50 PM
Uh I'd say this topic needs to be closed

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:52 PM
Uh I'd say this topic needs to be closed

+1...

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 04:54 PM
i dont really like the fact that you teach "hood" kids how to shoot. i hope you only teach the responsible ones.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 04:56 PM
i hope you only teach the responsible ones.


Yea Right...

FrankyCorleone
January 11, 2007, 04:57 PM
You have to teach responsibility.

People from the hood like guns also, and don't want to shoot people.

My good friend told me about my AR-15 "It's beautiful, but what the !$#@# do you need one for?"

People from the hood don't just want to do crimes. Alot of them go to church. Some of them are just going through hard times. I've been there. I've been on welfare and foodstamps because my family had trouble in the beginning. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Divorce can also be a issue.

GalilARM
January 11, 2007, 05:09 PM
Ok maybe I'm sticking my head in where it doesnt belong but.....

My cousins have grown up in a crappy area with crappy parents, gone to school in a crappy school district, gotten cars stolen, been beat up, witnessed crimes, endured a divorce, endured custody issues from both sides, and a whole lot more, yet somehow these kids came out just fine. They had EVERYTHING working against them, yet they are all in college now, on there way to having good careers, and unless you knew their family history, you'd never guess what these kids dealt with. Quite frankly it ****** the hell out of me to hear people try and justify delinquent behavior and criminal tendencies with the old "oh well he grew up in a rough neighborhood" line. Just because you get crapped on in your childhood doesnt mean you are destined to a life of crime or something. As far as I'm concerned, that argument will never fly, and it will certainly never justify criminal behavior.

Someone close this topic down, it went from a civil discussion to a ******* contest.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 05:16 PM
I agree I'm actually from a dirt poor family my dad was a drugy my mom actually held down 3 jobs county tax accessor's assn. walmart register, and a waitress on the weekends and we still never had **** becuase my dad was too lazy and high to get off his ass. Well my mom finally got me out of there at the age of 15. from then on I saw what a real life was and was never going to be like that. I went high school studied hard went to college got my degree and got a job with the state of texas. I'm now married my wife and I just bought our first house in July I have a Lightning (Fastest production truck until 2005 42K new) now and she has a mustang things that I would have only dreamed about when I was 11-12 years old I came from the depths of the low and came on up so give me that bs either.

dixierifleman
January 11, 2007, 05:19 PM
alright a Ford man. Prophet went up another notch in my book

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 05:23 PM
alright a Ford man. Prophet went up another notch in my book

LOL...blue oval boy here.

WIN71
January 11, 2007, 05:24 PM
If I hit a nerve or something.

I don't have a CCW. That's why I asked. However I'm still not sure what you were trying to tell me.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 05:25 PM
LOL no apoloigy needed I was just saying I'm not scared to stare anyone down no matter white,black,latin they all bleed just like me. thats all I was saying and if I didn't answer your question i'm sorry Yes I would do it even if I didn't carry a gun.

Dino.
January 11, 2007, 05:34 PM
I fit the bill of your typical gang banger description almost to the T. I dress like that, yes I occasionally grab my crotch. If I ask you for a ride, and you draw on me, we may have a issue.

Just because someone is 'ethnic' and dresses like that doesn't mean they aren't good people.

I love how people are like 'Oh it's dark, there is black people let me roll up and lock my doors they must be gang bangers because they're on the corner'

get out of here, i notice alot of ignorant statements on gun forums about gang bangers and ethnicity and dress ,I think it's rediciulous. I am too from MD.. and it's a daily occurance. Everyone in my city must be a gang banger because they dress like this.


....
Maybe if you experience the city a bit more than just driving through you wouldn't be so scared and tempted to draw a gun because someone is reaching in their coat to get a lighter as they ask you for a cigarette.

Get real.

I don't CCW, I have friends who live in the 'projects', I frequently these places often and nobody ever causes me problem...


And you guys know what?People who are gang bangers and drug dealers, aren't going to mess with you if you don't mess with them. They don't want the police involved, they just want to do their business and get money.

If you're that scared of ethnicity and people who wear hats other than straight.

If the guy was wearing flannel and a jean jacket would you have been so paranoid?If he was white?


Frankie,
I didn't mean to turn this into an ugly racist thread.
I was simply trying to point out that I didn't see any "threat" from what the author described.

I am a 40 year old, white male.
I live in an area where I am the "minority".
The majority of people in my community are mostly hispanic or black.
My neighborhood fences are all tagged by America's most dangerous gang, MS13 and my community borders the "Murder Capital of the World" (Washington DC). I know the difference between a "threat" and an every-day occurance and I'm sorry, but I just don't percieve someone asking for a ride as a "threat". And where I live, I would not interpret this as "suspicious" behavior, which only leaves one thing ... "profiling".

For those who like to "profile", remember this ...
You are being profiled too ... by the bad guy.
If your behavior is such that you are percieved as being easily intimidated, you are an easy target, plain and simple.

Where I live ... how we carry ourselves is more important than what we carry. ;)

adephue
January 11, 2007, 05:45 PM
Its amazing how dialog about JoshB's experience at the gas station morphed into an emotionally charged debate over how people in different geographic locations define 'gang bangers'. If you guys are that concerned, post something on Wikipedia or start a blog... but don't steer us off topic here. No one has the right to Monday Morning Quarterback JoshB's actions. Call him paranoid or call him prepared, he lived to post about the incident, (or everyday occurrence if you want to call it that) on TFL. The top news story in Harrisburg, PA this morning involved an incident where someone kicked the front door of a house open and started shooting. One dead, two injured. That illustrates the fact that SHTF can happen without warning.

Staying on the topic of what happened, I am curious about what others would do if the guy continued to approach the vehicle. My approach would have been to verbally warn the individual to keep his distance. If he continued to approach I might have let him see the grip of my weapon while politely asking him to keep his distance.

Prophet
January 11, 2007, 05:53 PM
I probably would have done the same verbally warned him then maybe showed the bottom of the mag maybe.

Hedley
January 11, 2007, 05:55 PM
Yet another thread turned into a ******* competition...

NCHornet
January 11, 2007, 06:06 PM
And you guys know what?People who are gang bangers and drug dealers, aren't going to mess with you if you don't mess with them. They don't want the police involved, they just want to do their business and get money.


Ding, ding , ding !! Give this member the prize for the most rediculous comment made on the forum today!!
I could say a lot more about what I just read on here but feel it is better to stay out of this one.

John28226
January 11, 2007, 08:06 PM
It is utterly amazing how some people who know so little like to say so much! Profiling is a ligitimate tool, a good instinct and absolutely hated by the PC crowd who lack the wisdom to face the truth. If someone makes the choice to look and act like a thug then they should be treated like a thug.

From what you stated, Josh, you used both good judgment and restraint. Don't worry about what people who chose to live in a state that does not trust its citizens to carry guns thinks.

Paying attention to people is a great way to avoid serious trouble and to keep from being a victim. If more people did it then we might not have as much crime as we have today.

John
Charlotte, NC
A Concealed Carry Authorized State

jhenry
January 11, 2007, 08:28 PM
1. This thread has degenerated and needs to be closed.

2. Folks who DECIDE to dress or act a certain way really should not be surprised when others can actually SEE IT and form an opinion. What do you expect? Do you think others are going to invite you over and have you fill out a questionaire so they can get to know the real you along with your inner child? Come back to Earth. People put forth the image they want to, and do it for a reason. Everyone does whether it is a concious act or not. You are saying "This is who I am" And if it gives someone the willies or makes them uncomfortable and you complain about it then tough crap.

Al Norris
January 11, 2007, 08:54 PM
Josh, glad things came out OK.

Closed. PM me if you really need to know why. :mad: