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Texas9000s
January 1, 2007, 10:20 AM
A few weeks ago, I had a situation here at the house. What would you have done?

I came home from work just before 8:00pm, storms were about to start rolling in. Sitting down to dinner, dark, starts raining. Then we hear a loud, almost panic knocking at the front door. Against my better judgement I opened the door. My neighbor starts telling me about a "guy" who was in their back yard who they saw jump the fence into ours. I yell for my son to get the shotgun, I grab it from him open the back door, chamber a round and begin to search the yard. I come around the corner, see our "guy" sitting crouched in the corner of the fence and house, barefoot, no shirt. I level the weapon and order him over the fence, yell for my wife to call 911. The neighbor is on the other side of the fence, they collect the BG and we hold him until the sheriffs arrive. I've now put up the shotgun, put my pistol in my pocket and continue to keep the BG at a safe distance, while questioning him. He gives this sob story of being carjacked and mugged. The sheriffs arrive and haul him off.

jhenry
January 1, 2007, 10:49 AM
You were inside your house, safe and armed, it was dark and raining and someone TOLD you a guy hopped your fence. Simple tresspass. Call the police and keep your family safe in the house. Do not open the door. Do not go around the dark wet slippery yard with an adreneline dump in your veins looking for what might not be a bad guy anyway, with a racked shotgun. Too easy for a serious tragedy to happen.

A multitude of scenarios come to mind---the tresspasser is running from the cops and you zip out there in the dark rain with a weapon right in the middle of it and pull down on a plainclothes cop.----the guy is high on dope, out of his mind, and wandering through yards trying to get home, he sees you in the bad light, freaks out and comes at you, you pull the trigger and shoot some unarmed idiot who just needed to be in the drunk tank for the night. etc etc.

It's meant to be constructive critisism so there it is. I would like to commend you for having the presence of mind to recognize a potential threat and getting out the hardware, I just would advise a better thought out response next time.

mikejonestkd
January 1, 2007, 11:03 AM
Stay in the house and pick up the phone with one hand and the shotgun with the other.

There's no reason to go outside, ever, unless you are absolutely certain that a loved one is in danger outside.

DEvineWYnd
January 1, 2007, 11:05 AM
This might seem a little stupid but why did you "order him back over the fence?"

He was in your yard and you had him covered , that just seems a bit odd to me...

BillCA
January 1, 2007, 11:07 AM
From your user-id, should we presume you live in Texas? Property laws are different there than in many other states.

That said, what is the worst thing this "guy" was suspected of doing? Potentially, he's guilty of prowling your property and at the least he's a tresspasser. In your jurisdiction, is that a crime that qualifies for using deadly force? In other words, if you had ordered him to put up his hands but he ran away or hopped another fence instead, would you have fired? Would you have been justified in those circumstances? This concludes the food for thought section.

For what it's worth, I likely would have done the same, even here in Kalifornia. The weapon is there for your protection and to maintain control should he become aggressive or fail to follow your commands.

Tactically, the only change I would suggest is that once you establish control of the individual, put him face down on the ground right there. By putting him face down, arms out or on his head, you have immobilized him and reduced the threat. The sooner he is immobilized the safer you and your neighbor will be.

Also, I'm always leery of potential criminal activity where the suspect is half naked (no shirt/shoes). People high on meth often feel too hot and remove some or most of their clothing. In such a case, it's best to keep as much distance as practical because they can be very unpredictable.

While the guy may have actually been carjacked and fleeing from the assailant, I find it more than strange that he wouldn't stop and ask for help from the first person he encounters (your neighbor).

OBIWAN
January 1, 2007, 11:09 AM
I hate Monday Morning Quarterbacking...but since you asked

I am going to have to agree...no immediate threat...stay in the house

What if he was simply the bait??

As far as "holding him" ask yourself this

What would you have done if he "objected" :confused:

I only ask because so many talk of "holding" a bad guy at gunpoint when they have actually have no legal right to do so.

And very few good options if the bad guy simply walks away

Daves-got-guns
January 1, 2007, 11:23 AM
i cant really chop up what he did too much, cause he was safe had his shotgun and nobody died. the bgs crouched in a cornor, in YOUR backyard with no shirt, im guessing hes not out collecting donations for his favorite charity. I think thats about as good as you can get with the shotgun, and since the intimidation factor with shotguns is huge, this is a good example of why to keep one around the house for home defense. As far as the what if questions, "what if he would have been a really bad guy, you just so happened to be a tree hugging type who didnt believe in guns, came outside to ask the nice man if he needed a shower, he came inside took a shower, and slaughtered your whole family while singing the barney theme song", well im sorry but this is not a what if situation, this is a what did happen sitiation. and that rant "what if" is not a question at all, sort of a moc statement.

NCHornet
January 1, 2007, 12:33 PM
I think your neighbor needs to buy himself a gun so he doesn't have to rely on his neighbor to protect himself!!
Just curious, what was the attitud of the law when they arrived?

RoscoeC
January 1, 2007, 12:44 PM
I took a pistol course awhile back from a long time law enforcement guy, and his advice was to never try to hold someone for the police. Think about it a little bit. You are not equipped. No handcuffs, whatever. You are not trained to use them even if you had them. How long does it take the police to arrive in your area? If you are in a large metropolitan area, it may take the better part of an hour. That is an hour the BG has to size you up and look for an opportunity to take you. Let's say you hold him for the police. What do you think will happen to him? You effectively stopped him from doing anything. He is guilty of misdemeanor tresspass. He will get a ticket. Big deal. He won't even spend the night in jail. In my opinion, and the opinion of the instructor of my class, you did exactly the right thing. Run him off with the warning that if he returns the outcome may be very different.

With all that said, I have to agree that the best course of action may have been just to stay inside, and call the police in the first place. I don't see a lot of immediate danger in a guy crouching by the fence in the back yard. I would have certainly armed myself and kept a close watch on the situation while waiting for the police.

revjen45
January 1, 2007, 01:01 PM
All's well that ends well, however, there could have been multiple skulkers who may have been armed and shot you while you were dealing with #1. In Texas you are allowed to shoot someone on your property at night if they are stealing something. The value is irrelevant- you can kill somebody for stealing a screwdriver. Any shooting in TX results in a legal hearing- no matter how justified you were it will cost you money for lawyers. You lucked out, but if something like that happens again, lock and load, call the cops, secure all entries, and turn off the lights inside the house. Your neighbor can arm himself or depend on the police. You have no duty to get involved.

marlboroman84
January 1, 2007, 02:10 PM
Sounds like a bad scene from a friday night movie and it sounds like you just got out of your creative writing class.

"It was a dark and stormy night. Suddenly there was a knock on the door! My neighbor screamed in terror and spoke of a man leaping over fences. I yelled for my son! 'Quickly my boy! I said. "My Remington, Post-haste!" I kicked open the door and advanced upon the man in my yard. I leveled the shotgun on him and racked the slide. The rain made the barrel gleam in the dim light and I held this man's life in my hands."

Next time stay in the house and don't be so John Wayne. Good way to leave your family without a provider.

GoSlash27
January 1, 2007, 02:31 PM
Wife came in from New Years partyin' ( dark and stormy in Cedar Rapids) and wakes me from a dead sleep with "OMG there's somebody prowling around the side of the house and I think he's trying to get in the back door".

So I got the Beretta from the quick access safe, threw on some clothes, pocketed a spare mag and went to have a look-see.
Nothing there.
I was as careful about it as I could be, and I only brought "Pietro" along for my own safety.
I shoulda stayed in the house, huh? :(

Baphomet
January 1, 2007, 02:36 PM
"Had to draw"? "Had" to? As in you were forced or compelled to do so?

No, you chose to arm yourself, you chose to exit your residence, and you chose in effect, to go looking for trouble.

Wildalaska
January 1, 2007, 02:59 PM
Recipe for a manslaughter charge.

Why is it that when folks got a gun they lose common sense

WildjoyeauanneeAlaska

mikejonestkd
January 1, 2007, 03:02 PM
I agree with wildalaska, you arm yourself and go LOOKING for trouble and most certainly trouble will find you.....

TonyM1
January 1, 2007, 03:10 PM
I agree with what most other posters have said and even if you discount the legal aspects of the situation, leaving the house is a tactical error imo.

Texas9000s
January 2, 2007, 01:01 AM
In an effort to keep it as brief as possible, I edited my normal long winded self. I live behind a rather large retail complex, and this time of year is a bit active for the unsavory type. As I figured, and found out later, he was not carjacked, but trying to get away from the leo's. The neighbors had already called 911, and I just wanted him out and away, mainly someone else's problem. The fact that the neighbors grabbed him as he came over the fence back to the street was secondary to my intentions.

The attitude of the leo's when they arrived was suprising. As the first deputy came up the driveway, I motioned to my front pocket and lifted my fingers to show him what I was pointing at. He asked if it was mine, and politely told me to "put it in the house". Another asked if I had discharged my shotgun, when I told him no, his reply was "OK, I wouldn't have had a problem with it if you did."

T. O'Heir
January 2, 2007, 01:40 AM
Does the term, "Release the hounds." come to mind?

Recon7
January 2, 2007, 02:06 AM
"It was a dark and stormy night. Suddenly there was a knock on the door! My neighbor screamed in terror and spoke of a man leaping over fences. I yelled for my son! 'Quickly my boy! I said. "My Remington, Post-haste!" I kicked open the door and advanced upon the man in my yard. I leveled the shotgun on him and racked the slide. The rain made the barrel gleam in the dim light and I held this man's life in my hands."

hahahahahaha

you're so right, all the extraneous information. I like the quotation marks around "guy" in the back yard

if Texas had said "some guy jumped my fence, so I pointed a shotgun at him and called the cops," he would have been flamed a lot more. he had to set the mood.

in the end of the post the "guy" becomes a BG. how about this, the neighbor saw a "BG" and it turned out to be a guy with no shirt or shoes scared out of his wits.

no shirt no shoes no respect.

odessastraight
January 2, 2007, 07:47 AM
"...Why is it that when folks got a gun they lose common sense?..." That is certainly one of the most anti- second ammendment sentiments I've read here. WildA,wannaputyaselfouttajob?.

GoSlash27
January 2, 2007, 09:38 AM
It never would've occurred to me to stay indoors before I read this thread. I don't think that sound tactical judgement is necessarily the same thing as "common sense"...

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 02:00 PM
Why is it that when folks got a gun they lose common sense?..." That is certainly one of the most anti- second ammendment sentiments I've read here. WildA,wannaputyaselfouttajob?.

What is so anti 2nd amendment about my statement? And how would that put me out of a job?

Wildyaneversawsomeoneactlikeanidiotwithagun?Alaska

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 02:07 PM
don't think that sound tactical judgement is necessarily the same thing as "common sense"...

I beg to differ...if you dont have common sense, how can you have "sound tactical judgement"?

WildcuriousAlaska

mete
January 2, 2007, 02:40 PM
Some years back in PA BGs tried to break into a home . The owner told them he was armed ....Then the homeowner went outside [maybe to make a "citizens arrest" ??? ] and they blew him away...Your home is easily defendable [physically and legally] .To go outside and face an unknown situation puts you in great physical and legal danger. Common sense should tell you that .Tactical knowledge certainly would .'Tactical judgement' involves knowledge and common sense. ..Your survival comes first ,everything else is a distant second !!:rolleyes:

OBIWAN
January 2, 2007, 02:55 PM
I am with Ken on this one

Having a weapon should make you more cautious...not less

"With great power comes great responsibility" (Peter Parker)

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 03:17 PM
Your survival comes first ,everything else is a distant second

I disagree, there are several things as important as survivial...one of which is the effect your actions have on others.

Do we need examples?

WildlooneyticAlaska

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 03:47 PM
if there was someone in my backyard, your damn right i will arm myself and find out whats goin on. who knows? he might have a gun and just start firin at the house while your inside on the phone. slim chance, but slim chances are what kills people.

RevolverLover
January 2, 2007, 04:30 PM
if there was someone in my backyard, your damn right i will arm myself and find out whats goin on. who knows? he might have a gun and just start firin at the house while your inside on the phone. slim chance, but slim chances are what kills people

So you would go into your backyard only going by info that a guy jumped over your fence? What happens if he was strung up on meth or something? Would you be able to deal with him then? Or what happens if he was armed and kills you and your family? What if there were more than just that one guy? Your best and safest thing to do is stay in your house, arm yourself, protect your family, and call the police and let them deal with it.

Ct.
January 2, 2007, 05:37 PM
To go outside and face an unknown situation puts you in great physical and legal danger. Common sense should tell you that .Tactical knowledge certainly would .'Tactical judgement' involves knowledge and common sense. ..Your survival comes first ,everything else is a distant second

1. You should know common sense isn't all that common
2. So are police officers ignoring their common sense or they just stupid people?
3. Common sense says don't jump from a perfectly good aeroplane why do people do that? they all stupid?

GoSlash27
January 2, 2007, 05:42 PM
if you dont have common sense, how can you have "sound tactical judgement"?

I was thinkin' more of the disparity the other way 'round; It is possible to have good common sense and still exhibit poor tactical judgement.
GoIdon'thaveasnappyphrasetoputinhereSlash27 :D

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 05:51 PM
"So you would go into your backyard only going by info that a guy jumped over your fence? What happens if he was strung up on meth or something? Would you be able to deal with him then? Or what happens if he was armed and kills you and your family? What if there were more than just that one guy? Your best and safest thing to do is stay in your house, arm yourself, protect your family, and call the police and let them deal with it."


if he was strung up on meth, thats what the shotguns for. even if you dont fire, its a 3 ft long bat to settle him down. if he was armed, same thing, you have the shotgun, and the right to fire on him. and whos to say they will stay outside and not try to get in. if theres only one, not too big of a problem. if theres more than one, they could surround and enter and ambush.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 06:22 PM
if he was strung up on meth, thats what the shotguns for. even if you dont fire, its a 3 ft long bat to settle him down. if he was armed, same thing, you have the shotgun, and the right to fire on him. and whos to say they will stay outside and not try to get in. if theres only one, not too big of a problem. if theres more than one, they could surround and enter and ambush.

I really think you need to edit your post before one of the more skilled tacticians here jumps your butt...

A gun is not a club btw.

WildhelpAlaska

odessastraight
January 2, 2007, 06:25 PM
Wild, the conclusion I came to by reading your statement was that people shouldn't have guns if they want to keep their common sense. I hear anti-gun types rehash the same tired statement, over and over. I just didn't expect it from a regular on this forum...and especially from one who earns $ from the sale of guns.

You (nor I) was there and it's not fair to pile on the guy without knowing everything within the context of that moment in time. I'll tell you one thing for sure... Don't count on me cowering in a dark corner of my house if I'm convinced that I might fight better by taking a potiential fight to a potiential enemy. At least that would take a fight away from other family members. I'd also count on knowing the terrain (my property) much better than my enemy. I just might decide to launch a preemptive strike on some creep in my backyard, too. All this "hole up and pray he goes away" may not always be the best choice.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 06:33 PM
read below

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 06:37 PM
i dont think i should edit my post. im not tryin to argue or anything cause i know there are more educated here than me, but i would not let someone just come on my property and do what they like. i know a gun isnt a club, but if faced with situation, itll distance you from him. thats from a common sense standpoint, not tactical. my point is, what works for you may not work for everyone. everyone has their opinion and if faced with a decision like that, i would not retreat to under my bed and lock the door and call 911. what if you call 911, and tell the situation? cops should be there in less than 10 minutes. thats 10 minutes of destruction that the guy could do whilst you hide, that could have been avoided. sorry, not for me.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 06:46 PM
I'll tell you one thing for sure... Don't count on me cowering in a dark corner of my house if I'm convinced that I might fight better by taking a potiential fight to a potiential enemy. At least that would take a fight away from other family members. I'd also count on knowing the terrain (my property) much better than my enemy. I just might decide to launch a preemptive strike on some creep in my backyard, too. All this "hole up and pray he goes away" may not always be the best choice.

This ain't Iraq.....this aint war...this could be a guy who is just drunk..or lost...and in most jurisdictions, you go outside and blast some numbnuts rummaging through your barbeque you are going to jail.

Hole up and pray may not be the best tactical choice, but in most jurisdictions it is your obligation. Bar the door, call 911, take cover and wait, rather than Ramboing in the backyard.....and if someone comes in the door, by all means fire away.....

Wild, the conclusion I came to by reading your statement was that people shouldn't have guns if they want to keep their common sense. I hear anti-gun types rehash the same tired statement, over and over. I just didn't expect it from a regular on this forum...and especially from one who earns $ from the sale of guns.


No, you misread my statement...read it again...and waht does the fact that I am selling guns have to do with anything...I should shut up when I read silly stuff that people do with guns?...my living depends on being able to sell them...which is more difficult when folks do the WRONG thing and the antis go after us....

WildandonemoreresponseneededAlaska

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 06:50 PM
but i would not let someone just come on my property and do what they like.

You generally have no choice legally in most jurisdictions. Property destruction or trespass isnt a capital offense.....

i would not retreat to under my bed and lock the door and call 911. what if you call 911, and tell the situation? cops should be there in less than 10 minutes. thats 10 minutes of destruction that the guy could do whilst you hide, that could have been avoided. sorry, not for me.

O well, thems the breaks. Like I said, until you have a situation where shooting is justified, you cant shoot. Escalation of force removes justification. YMMV, but I for one dont like jail cells.

WildsomuchramboingsometimesAlaska

PS...how old are you there dixie?

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 06:52 PM
im only 20. why?

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 06:56 PM
property tresspass or destruction isnt grounds to shoot. but like stated before, what if he were armed? if he brandishes a weapon, why should i think he wont hesitate to cause me serious bodily harm or death? thats why i would go out armed. if he has a weapon and intends to use it, i would shoot to kill.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 07:09 PM
but like stated before, what if he were armed? i

Thats the reason you have no biz going outside.

WildenoughalreadyAlaska

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 07:12 PM
if there is an armed man in my backyard, i WILL be going after him. it IS my business to go after him. what if he sees you or your family through a window and starts shootin through the house? what if he keeps goin and kills someone else when YOU could have stopped him? maybe thats ok with you, but not me. i have a better chance then he does in my territory.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 07:23 PM
And what if he is an uindercover cop chasing a murderer?? Or the guy down the street looking for his dog excesizing his right to open carry.

And if he starts "shooting through the house"...well then take cover and shoot back by all means...but until there is an IMMEDIATE threat coming to you (not you coming to it) dont shoot..or have money for your lawyer

Wildok?Alaska

wayneinFL
January 2, 2007, 07:28 PM
"2. So are police officers ignoring their common sense or they just stupid people? "

There is a difference. Police officers have a job to do. You don't. I'm not a lawyer, but there are some legal ramifications there.

Texas, everything worked out for you. I'm glad it did. But be careful. Looking at it from behind my computer screen your actions don't seem like the correct thing to do in such a circumstance, legally or from a safety standpoint.

But I have to admit, on a day when I'm not really thinking about it, I might do something similar in a similar situation. One of my buddies at work had a neighbor screaming frantically for him to come help her. Rather than calling the police immediately he armed himself and went to check on her. Turned out there was just a dog trying to get into her house. I wouldn't have called the police in that situation either, but I wouldn't have come running in with a gun in my hand. You could get shot like that.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 07:40 PM
its just a matter of preference. go out and defend your property or stay inside and hope nothing else happens. ill take my chances, but thats just me. im also enlisting in the Marines as an infantryman to go to Iraq. most people choose to stay inside(stateside). the select few know the risk and choose to do what is, in their opinion, right. im one of the select few. it does not give you any right to judge me, i dont judge you because you would stay back and let the perp do as he pleases.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 07:45 PM
Ya got a lot to learn. Good luck in your service, but remember life isnt a war zone.

WildyaknowthelawinyourstatebythewayAlaska

bennnn
January 2, 2007, 07:46 PM
Wow.....

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 07:47 PM
just because you dissagree with me, i have a lot to learn? i do have a lot to learn, but not on this subject. i have learned in my short 20 years to stand up for myself and my property. maybe thats something you should learn.

mjrodney
January 2, 2007, 07:50 PM
You were not in any life threatening situation. Trespassing is a misdemeanor.

Pulling a firearm on someone who is outside your residence, displaying that firearm with movie theater bravado, at someone who is not threatening anyone with imminent and severe harm or deadly force, and who is simply committing a misdemeanor by trespassing, is not a wise move. I don't care if he/she is high on drugs or not.....no threat....no display of a firearm. Keep it hidden.

The only time you bring a firearm out into the open, outside your home and into a situation is when you are, or honestly believe you are, under IMMEDIATE and IMMINENT threat of severe bodily harm or death.....AND....the person you are confronting has the ABILITY to hurt you (size, weapon)....AND.....the person confronting you has the OPPORTUNITY to hurt you (close proximity, within range).....AND......you were in RECOGNIZABLE JEOPARDY by any reasonable person bystander who might be looking on......AND......your display of a weapon was an act of LAST RESORT.

You really exposed yourself to being charged with a firearms violation. I personally believe you were lucky.

Wildalaska
January 2, 2007, 07:56 PM
i have learned in my short 20 years to stand up for myself and my property. maybe thats something you should learn.

Well as you get older you will learn how to stand up for yourself and your property in a mature way within the confines of the law.

Hopefully you will learn that in the marines

WildlifeaintalltestosteroneAlaska

Bud Helms
January 2, 2007, 09:04 PM
It always amazes me how two sides of an argument can agree on 95% of the issue and end up peeing on each other's boots over that remaining 5%.

Go figure.

odessastraight
January 2, 2007, 09:14 PM
Wild, The "M" in Marine is capitalized.

I like your attitude. I know you picked the right branch of service. Good luck in the USMC. Semper Fi.

M1911
January 2, 2007, 09:33 PM
There's no reason to go outside, ever, unless you are absolutely certain that a loved one is in danger outside.+1

Whether the guy outside is armed or not, going outside to meet him when none of your loved ones are in danger is seldom a wise choice. That's true from both a legal standpoint and from a tactical standpoint.

The reality is that you don't really know what is going on outside. Is the guy lost? Is he a fugitive from the police? Does he have three armed friends hiding in the shadows that you didn't see? Is he an undercover officer? Is he your neighbor hiding from an unseen assailant? You don't know. But you're willing to put yourself in the middle of the fight? Why, exactly?

It is the job of the police to find the answers to those questions. I don't know about your jurisdiction, but in mine they would be at my home within about two minutes of a call.

As for the statement "what if he starts shooting into your house..." If he does that, you deal with it. Of course, if you are inside your house, away from the windows, and he's shooting blindly at your house, what are the chances that he'll actually hit you? You'd rather be outside, where he can actually see you to aim at you? Why go outside and escalate the situation when you can sit back behind a locked door, in relative safety?

If he does break into your house, he'll probably be coming through a doorway. There's a reason that doorways are called "fatal funnels."

Stay inside. Call the police. If necessary, take cover with a good view of your door.

Texas9000s
January 2, 2007, 09:46 PM
Hindsight being what it is, I'd have to agree that it was not the best thing to do. Kinda why I posted this here. You can always learn from others experience and knowledge. I thank you all for your input. Keep on.

tharmer
January 2, 2007, 09:47 PM
Have you gotten your validation yet? Have you learned anything? Are you wiser now than then?

Texas9000s
January 2, 2007, 09:52 PM
Yes (incorrect action), yes and yes.:D

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:07 PM
i was brought up to defend myself and my property. it is within the law to use my firearm. do you think if you went out and said "hey stop" unarmed, he would listen? maybe. i doubt it though since hes obviousy runnin from somethin or someone. once he hears the pump action of the gun, and is lookin down the barrel, he has a better chance of stayin put. most of you would cower within your homes and wait for the police. good for you. maybe next time someones runnin through your yard and you do nothin but call the police, he shoots your neighbors. then youll have to live with that knowin you could have stopped him. its my property, i have the right to assess the problem. and i will do just that to protect not only myself, but others he may potentially harm or kill.

Bud Helms
January 2, 2007, 10:09 PM
Good. It's not often we get a conclusion this clear. :)

Texas9000s
January 2, 2007, 10:12 PM
That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. In hindsight, the smart thing to do would have been to have the wife call the police, get armed and wait. Too many posible bad outcomes. What if I had shot him? What if someone else had jumped over the fence once I was outside? Keep the door locked and wait, if someone comes in, then deal with it. Like I said, that is why I posted this here, to get the opinions and views of others who may be more knowledgeable than me, or who may have been in similar situations before.

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:15 PM
i was brought up to defend myself and my property. it is within the law to use my firearm. do you think if you went out and said "hey stop" unarmed, he would listen? maybe. i doubt it though since hes obviousy runnin from somethin or someone. once he hears the pump action of the gun, and is lookin down the barrel, he has a better chance of stayin put. most of you would cower within your homes and wait for the police. good for you. maybe next time someones runnin through your yard and you do nothin but call the police, he shoots your neighbors. then youll have to live with that knowin you could have stopped him. its my property, i have the right to assess the problem. and i will do just that to protect not only myself, but others he may potentially harm or kill.

While I am cowering in my home, those with your plan of action could easily be sitting in a jail cell or a morgue. After the bg fails to be impressed by hearing the horrific shotgun shuck and decides to run from you, do you shoot him? What do you do about a potential buddy of the bg who comes up behind you and ends your day? As has been said repeatedly; very poor tactical decision.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:20 PM
.....

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:22 PM
i would shoot. i live in florida

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501553.html

"The Florida measure says any person "has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm."

Florida law already lets residents defend themselves against attackers if they can prove they could not have escaped. The new law would allow them to use deadly force even if they could have fled and says that prosecutors must automatically presume that would-be victims feared for their lives if attacked."

Ct.
January 2, 2007, 10:22 PM
"2. So are police officers ignoring their common sense or they just stupid people? "

There is a difference. Police officers have a job to do. You don't. I'm not a lawyer, but there are some legal ramifications there.

Personaly IT IS MY JOB to defend MY PROPERTY if the police want to come help good if not I don't care. The police are always there for after the event has happened.

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:23 PM
i would shoot. i live in florida


Well, here's a newsflash for you; you cannot use deadly force to protect property in Florida, so going outside to meet the trespasser and drawing on him gets you a trip to jail, and conviction of pointing a gun at someone carries a minimum mandatory sentence of 3 years.

GoSlash27
January 2, 2007, 10:25 PM
Hindsight being what it is, I'd have to agree that it was not the best thing to do. Kinda why I posted this here. You can always learn from others experience and knowledge. I thank you all for your input. Keep on.

+1, and thank you for having the cojones to post that admission. At least one other person (myself) learned from it.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:27 PM
read the article

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:28 PM
Read the law properly

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:28 PM
Florida law already lets RESIDENTS defend themselves against attackers if they can prove they could not have escaped. The new law would allow them to use deadly force even if they could have fled and says that prosecutors must automatically presume that would-be victims feared for their lives if attacked."

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:29 PM
im not a resident of my property? well ill be damned

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:32 PM
So, you were in fear for your life, and you grabbed your sg and went outside to confront the person who had made you fear for your life?...The DA will get a laugh out of that, you must be in imminent fear for your life, which in this case if you really were, you damn sure would not leave your safe house and go look for a guy that is scaring the **** out of you now would you?

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:34 PM
again. from the article.

The new law would allow them to use deadly force even if they could have fled and says that prosecutors must automatically presume that would-be victims feared for their lives if attacked

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:45 PM
Dixierifleman:

Articles in newspapers are not what the police dept, da, judge or jury convict people on, they rely upon the law and I would strongly suggest that you pick up a copy of Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership www.floridafirearmslaw.com

The use of deadly force in self defense of a forcible felony is permissible if a person reasonably believes his or another persons life is in imminent danger. Guess what? trespassing is not a forcible felony, guess what is?...you pointing a gun at the trespasser, it's called aggravated assault.

You are interpreting Florida's self-defense law in the same way the media has; as though we can just shoot anyone we want for setting foot on our property. Go look up the state statutes and stop relying on newspapers for legal advice.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:48 PM
i would defend myself the way i have stated. whos to say im right and whos to say im wrong? certainly none of you. i have the balls to do whats right, and thats eliminate the threat. not wait on the police to ger there and find the guy gone.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:53 PM
theres alot of "what ifs" around here.


what if he keeps goin through yards and kills someone when you could have stopped him? i already said this but yall dont get it. if it meant saving someone elses life, i would risk my life to stop the threat. hell thats what ill be doing for a living in a few months. but i cant say im not suprised to find out how many people on the internet are selfish and or cowards

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:53 PM
i would defend myself the way i have stated. whos to say im right and whos to say im wrong? certainly none of you. i have the balls to do whats right, and thats eliminate the threat. not wait on the police to ger there and find the guy gone.

Fair enough, I wouldn't be surprised to be reading about your murder trial one day and you've left some pretty good evidence on the forum for the DA to boot. My cowardly ball-less self will be enjoying freedom while your macho gun toting self will enjoy our penal system.

dixierifleman
January 2, 2007, 10:54 PM
hahaha. actually ill be in Iraq being paid to kill.

Recon7
January 2, 2007, 10:57 PM
all right we've beat up on Texas enough here. I couldn't help but mock the op earlier. I don't think tex did the right thing when he encountered the guy in his yard, but the question seems to be, should you go out into your yard to investigate something unusual?

If I called 911 and told the operator "my neighbor thought he saw some guy in my yard," a cop would be at the door within 3-4 hours maybe. it would be quicker to order a pizza for the guy in my yard and see if the pizza guy gets shot.

wild, you yourself said remember life isn't a war zone.

I refuse to live in fear, what kinda guy would jump into somebody's yard just to shoot him? if he was a burglar or something he'd probably get scared and run away. I don't know why people get so worked up over this stuff. I could think of a lot of reasons somebody would jump into a persons back yard other than to kill him. maybe there dumb kids going "cow tipping" or something. I'm not saying don't have your guard up or to leave the scattergun inside, just use some of that common sense stuff I hear so much about on the Internet.

TonyM1
January 2, 2007, 10:58 PM
what if he keeps goin through yards and kills someone when you could have stopped him? i already said this but yall dont get it. if it meant saving someone elses life, i would risk my life to stop the threat. hell thats what ill be doing for a living in a few months. but i cant say im not suprised to find out how many people on the internet are selfish and or cowards

You're obviously a cowboy itching to kill someone, I have a feeling that if you survive Iraq your mind might be a bit more open to learning the laws of the land when you get back, here's hoping so.

wayneinFL
January 2, 2007, 11:00 PM
"Personaly IT IS MY JOB to defend MY PROPERTY if the police want to come help good if not I don't care. The police are always there for after the event has happened."

Police have a duty (sort of) to protect your property. Your right to do so with "reasonable force". Bad things happen if you feel it is reasonable to use a shotgun to protect your backyard, and the jury does not. The tresspasser was not attacking you while you ran out of your house, at the least, brandishing a deadly weapon, possibly even committing an aggravated assault.

As for the stand your ground law, dixierifleman, I see Tony beat me to it. It's not as cut and dried as liberal organizations like the Washington Post or HCI wants to make it seem. It doen't do much at all to give you any more rights than you had before. Still has to be reasonable.

Bud Helms
January 3, 2007, 12:50 AM
This thread came to rest at post #55. Some of you apparently didn't get the word. Start a new thread.

Closed.

Correction: go here (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2206582#post2206582).