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Sweatnbullets
December 10, 2006, 10:47 AM
Movement Inside of the Fight Continuum

"The fight will be what the fight will be." There is a definite fight continuum and inside the fight continuum there is a number of other continuums. There is of course, 7677's sight continuum, there is a reaction continuum, and a movement continuum. There are even lesser continuums including grip, trigger, etc. but let's concentrate on the main three.

React as you need to react, move as you need to move, and see what you need to see within the context of the specifics of the fight. This is very straight forward and simple, yet each of these are intertwined. Each works in conjunction with the other and each has an effect on the other. The dynamics of the fight will be dictated by your position in the reactinary curve, the proximity of the threat, and the urgency of the situation. How you deal with the specifics of the fight will depend on your mindset, experience, training and skill level.

When it comes to training and skill level, I believe that we should strive to be as well rounded and versitile as possible. To understand the fight continuum and to cover as many bases as possible within that continuum. There needs to be a priority set on "the most likely situations." But training should not stop there.

In regards to the movement continuum, I have broken the skillsets into four catagories.

Stand and Deliver

Controlled movement

Dynamic movement

And "get the heck out of dodge" movement

Stand and deliver is the entry level skillset. This is where you nail down your fundamentals. You should have stand and deliver skills down cold to truly excel in the skillsets that follow. Many very good men have come home after very tough nights with stand and deliver skills.... a few of them right here on this forum. One should not discount this skillset when it is used within the correct context of the fight.

Controlled movement is an intermediate skillset and would include the groucho (duck walk,) the side step (crab walk,) and "just walk." Controlled movement has it place also. When the urgency is not high and the proximity/distance requires more precision (sighted fire.)

Dynamic movement is the "high priority" movement that I referred to earlier. This is where you will most likely find yourself. Dynamic movement excells when you are behind in the reactionary curve, the proximity is close. and the urgency is high. This movement can range from "faster than a walk" to a jog, to a stride, to a run, and finally to a sprint. This type of movement really works well within the reactinary continuum and the sight continuum. The use of target focused skills takes this skillset well beyond what has been considered "possible" in the recent past.

Get the heck out of Dodge movement is simply sprinting to cover without engaging until you are behind cover. This has it's place, especially in the military. It's used by a civilian CCWer is becomiong less and less necessary due to the huge advancements in dynamic movement shooting over the past year. If cover is a couple of yards away.....by all means get to it! But do not die trying to get to something that is just too far away

bobhwry
December 10, 2006, 04:28 PM
What the He**????

AR15FAN
December 10, 2006, 05:52 PM
Hahaha, funny Bob. To myself I was thinking, that must be strong stuff he's smoking. :D Jokingly of course......
That was an intense post.

threegun
December 10, 2006, 06:11 PM
Sweat'n'Bullets, I tried the Dynamic movement "sprint" continuum and stunk the up the joint. I guess I better crawl before I walk LOL. I got hits just not a hits.

Double Naught Spy
December 10, 2006, 07:10 PM
That would definitely have to fall into the "I have no idea what the purpose of the post was except to hear himself type continuum."

Seriously, Bullets, was there an actual point to your post? It just seems to be a set of points, some not exactly clear, on some topic foreign to most of us.

Are you an instructor?

Sweatnbullets
December 10, 2006, 07:15 PM
I tried the Dynamic movement "sprint" continuum and stunk the up the joint.

three gun, yes you must work this is a building block approach and do a good amount of practice if you are looking for all A zone hits. This is about as advanced as you can get with in your skill level. No one said that it was easy or "all A zone accurate" after reading a couple of posts. But it does not mean that it is not an achievable skill level or have a place in a fight when you are behind the reactinary curve.

These are not competition skills....they are combat skills. When you are behind the reactionary curve, there must be a balance or speed and accuracy. Speed of the drawstroke, speed of getting out of the kill zone, speed on the trigger along with putting solid combat hits on your adversary.

Solid combat hits are not "just" A zone hits. To take the time to guarantee an A zone hits when you are in an up close, dynamic, reactionary, high urgency encounter is not a very good idea. This is being proven every day in quality FOF training. This is not just theory.

The course that I have run are to help students integrate sighted and threat focused shooting. 95% of the course is done without sights. Much of it is run with dynamic movement. Some of it is run in extremely low light. Every skill and drill that I teach is pushed until the very limits of the skills and drills have been established. Even with the limitations being pushed on every drill the hit rate is consistanly right around a 97% hit rate. No these are not all A-zone hits....these are combat hits while being pushed in combat "like" situations. As hard as I push my students I am looking for hits inside of a 9" circle around the thoracic cavity.

This is not ego based group shooting, this is realistic dynamic combat shooting. This course was borne out of FOF, not out of competition or shooting for score. The recent explosion of airsoft guns available to nearly everyone, along with the recent "absolute acceptance" of point shooting, for those in the know, has pushed the dynamic movement skill set way past conventional thinking. I am not the only one going this direction. The dynamic movement skillset is being pushed by some of the very best in the business.

Slugthrower
December 10, 2006, 07:21 PM
Continuum: A continuous extent, succession, or whole, no part of which can be distinguished from neighboring parts except by arbitrary division.

Arbitrary:Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle.

Your post Sweatnbullets, is double speak and babble. Use of large words for the purpose of making one appear educated or intelligent is only self serving.
You said a whole lot of nothing.
Dynamic movement is redundant, as dynamic implies movement. In the time-space continuum there is dynamic and static, or you could say potential and kinetic.

Characteristics of the human condition and the interaction with the environ are what you seek to define. That would be, as a person ,what you find yourself in. A situation.
Situational Awareness.
Now ,if you pay attention to your surroundings, you will not have to be a genius to figure out...
Cover is preferred to concealment.
Movement is preferred to standing still.
Not being there when it hits the fan , most preferred to having to resort to "tactics and combat mind set" BS to save your posterior in a "got caught with your pants down" moment.
All of this "I would do this or that in this situation or that situation" ,are things that children do.

Denken Sie, bevor Sie sprechen.

armedandsafe
December 10, 2006, 07:42 PM
Personally, I see no reason to sneer at this post. It seemed perfectly clear to me.

...on some topic foreign to most of us.

Perhaps one has to have been actually engaged in a firefight during one's life to appreciate the fact that training must be more than just physical. The mental aspect of training is, perhaps, more important than creating "muscle memory."

Pops

threegun
December 10, 2006, 07:43 PM
S&B is explaining the Fluid Threat Response. A system of using the bodies natural reaction to flee a threat and combine it with skills to make hits while fleeing. If you hear him out it makes sense.

Sweatnbullets
December 10, 2006, 07:57 PM
Well this sure isn't goin very well.:D I have not had that happen in a long time.;)

I'll try this one more time, if people are not interested, I will just move on. These posts are just food for thought. I thought that maybe they might stimulate some conversation.

I believe that there should be continuity to ones movement. I feel that one should train to get hits through the entire movement spectrum. There is no doubt about the importance of "stand and deliver" skills. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on this skill with tens of thousands of drawstrokes. If I chose this solution to the problem, that skill will be there.

I also see a need for very controlled movement that facilitates a precision shot on the move. This could include skills such as "just walk", side stepping (crab walk,) or even the old groucho (duck) walk. All three of these techniques have there place and should be something that you can do on demand, if that demand arises. I practice head shots at logical distances with this type of movement.

I also see a need to be able to get hits with your toes pointing the direction that you are moving. This type of movement has your upper body working independent from your lower body, "like a turret of a tank." Toes point the direction you are headed, body turreted the direction that you are shooting. This type of movement brings in your bi-lateral skills. Shooting to the firing side can be done two handed to a certain point, then you need to go one handed. The possible speed of this movement can cover the full spectrum, from a walk, to a jog, to a stride, to a run, and finally to a sprint. This is where you find what you are physically capable of. This is where the limitations are pushed, and the standards are set.

Feints, jukes, cut backs and directional changes are also part of the movement skills set. One should explore there ability to use these skills and the limitations that different terrain/footing give you.

React as you need to react, move as you need to move, and see what you need to see to solve the problem that you are confronted with. If you train with these basic concepts, you will have covered the vast majority of the possible situations. In covering these situations, your subconscious mind will choose, with confidence, the appropriate solution.

Training to move and shoot in every direction is the best way to go. The only thing that I refuse to teach is back peddeling. There are ways to engage while moving rearward without back peddling.

I believe that getting off of the line of attack is very important. This accomplishes getting out of the kill zone as quickly as possible. Moving straight in or straight back simply does not get you off of the line of attack. But there are times when moving straight in is a very good idea. If you find yourself in a position where you can not avoid the situation, but you are in a dominant position (inside of the BG's OODA loop), due to awareness, distraction, deception, metsubishi, or ballistic effect moving forward aggressively and stopping the threat has it's place.

Movement needs to have purpose. Getting to cover would be the most obvious purpose. But many times cover is just not a reality. In this case, movement to acquire the adversaries flanks is an outstanding tactic. Moving forward to the oblique's or using elliptical movement to try to get behind the adversary is as solid a tactic as there is.

If your natural reaction (just reacting, with no conscious thought does happen when you are behind in the reactionary curve) is to move one direction, that does not mean that you need to keep moving that direction. Direction can be changed with elliptical movement or "cutback" type moves. The directional changes can come out of the visual input of the dynamics of the encounter. You need to be able to recognize the changes in your position in the OODA loop. Making adjustments to your movement due to this visual input is something that everyone should be aware of.

Moving rearward to the oblique's while putting accurate hits on board is an outstanding skill to own. This can be accomplished quite easily with the correct training and tools. The LEO's that I have taught in my courses have considered these skills "life saving skills" for officers that have been caught behind the reactionary curve. In a typical traffic stop, the officer cover, radio, long gun......down right security is behind him. To be able to fight their way back to the patrol car, while delivering accurate hits, can be an excellent tool to own.

Lateral movement is the best way to not get hit, but it is also the most difficult way to get hits. The dynamics of this displacement dictate this as fact. This is why the ability to make hits laterally, on a full run is one of the highest skill levels obtainable in the movement spectrum.

The bottom line is that it is a very good idea to "train for the worst and hope for the best." You never know what the dynamics of the fight are going to be. It is the wise man that trains himself to be well rounded as possible in order to cover as many bases as he can. Training in just one response will make you a "flat sided" fighter. Flat sided fighters can not adapt to varying tactics, if you can not adapt, you will not overcome.

Sweatnbullets
December 10, 2006, 08:39 PM
Slugthrower, "continuum" is an standard and established word inside of firearms training. I was not the first, fouth, or even the ninth guy to use that term.

"Dynamic movement" is also a standard established word inside of firearms training. One question for you, does the word dynamic describe the movement of a snail?


I am sorry if I made your head hurt.......there are some comics in the Sunday paper.;)

Samurai
December 10, 2006, 08:51 PM
Mmmmkay. Fine. We need to train to move in every direction, at a variety of speeds, and under duress conditions. I accept your premise.

Now, my question is ... HOW???? This board is "Tactics and Training." So, now that I accept the fact that I need to learn to move while I shoot, HOW do I learn that?

I always tout the phrase, "Train, train, train." But, train what? When I teach a kid to punch, I start by teaching him how to ball up a fist. Then, I tell him to start with his fist on his hip, to step forward and to reach his arm out, and to pull his fist back to a side-block position. These are the basics of throwing a straight-punch. Then, I say, "Go and train."

Sweatnbullets, you have told us, "Go and train in movement." You have not yet told us what to train. What do we do?????

AR15FAN
December 10, 2006, 09:05 PM
OK, you lost me when the "the old groucho (duck) walk." line entered the post. Either you are a great leg puller, or I am not at the "kill Bill" level you speak of. The only time I saw anyone operate and function in the split second of any continuum was in the move "The Matrix". The average shooter operates in the normal time continuum, which is a hell of a lot slower. :rolleyes:

Capt Charlie
December 10, 2006, 10:30 PM
Training in just one response will make you a "flat sided" fighter. Flat sided fighters can not adapt to varying tactics, if you can not adapt, you will not overcome.
S'nB makes a lot of sense, but it's an area that's often neglected in training. We take movement for granted, but when you throw the need for quick and accurate fire into the mix, it becomes a lot more complicated.

Try this exercise the next time you're on the range. If you're right handed, start about 10 yards to the left of the target, from the 10 yard line. (You'll be at a 45 degree diagonal to the target). If you're left handed, start from the right side. Now draw and while walking parallel to the target, fire and continue firing until you're about 10 yds. past it. The "tank turret" concept works very well in this direction, and the exercise is relatively easy.
Reload. Now, while still maintaining a strong side stance, repeat the exercise in the opposite direction, right to left. Unless you've practiced this a lot, you'll find yourself tripping over your own feet once you pass directly in front of the target. Controlled movement becomes a real problem.

Think of it as the difference between an old Sherman tank and a new M1 Abrams. On the move, the Sherman's gun is rigid and hitting anything is difficult. The Abram's main gun is gyro stabilized, and no matter how much dipping and bobbing the vehicle does, the gun stays on target. Our upper bodies need to be "gyro stabilized" during movement. That comes with training, where you find out for yourselves exactly how far the "turret" will move, and how much and in what ways you need to move the "tank".

As for the "duck walk", some of you military gents surely remember duck walking during PT (and the resulting aches & pains the following day :D ). This will really tax you physically in even a short time, but it significantly reduces your (perceived) exposure to the enemy and the bent knees while walking increases the range of movement of your upper body.

Next time you're at a range where it's possible, try engaging the target from different angles, while moving at different angles, and you'll find out that moving quickly and smoothly, while shooting quickly and accurately, sometimes really is a challenge.

Sweatnbullets
December 11, 2006, 01:31 AM
AR15fan, You are probably right, that you are not at a level to be able to do this. Since 1999 I have taken over fifty formal firearms courses and trained in around twenty FOF sessions. I have been lucky enought to have trained with some of the very best guys out there. This has nothing to do with "Kill Bill" or "The Matrix".....so I'm not sure that you would even be interested, let alone at the level of which some of us are speaking here. As you notice, I am not the Lone Ranger speaking of this stuff. If you notice the guys that have actually been in combat understand what I am saying here. This would come down to knowledge base and skill level. It is also not possible if you have a closed mind no matter what your experience. I talk about this on nine different gun forums and this is the worst reception that I have received in a couple of years. I may be a newer instructor, but I have taught this in a half dozen courses and the reviews of my courses have been very positive. I would be happy to post reviews of my courses if you would like.

Samuri, here is the most versatile of the controlled movement, The groucho walk working like a turret of the tank. Point your toes the direction that you want to go. You are going to want to walk with a slightly lowered base. The knees will be bent, your rear end will be lowered, kind of a crouch. You are going to walk heel, toe, heel, toe, this will smooth out your walk. Also Use your knees to absorb the shock. The reason they call it the groucho is because it resembles the way that Groucho Marx use to walk. This type of controlled movement is excellent with the use of sights. I would recommend that you work this at closer ranges (three yards) first. When you have it down move back to four, then five, then six, etc, etc. Work your upper and lower body independently from each other. The lower body is the tank treads, the upper body is the turret and the gun. This is just one form of movement and covers only a portion of what you would need to do.

I teach this along with plenty of other stuff. I could also direct you to two other guys that are going over virtually the same stuff.

Capt Charlie, nice post! One thing that I would do a little different is start the guys closer, then slowly work your way back. Most self defense encounters happen inside of three yards and very few happen past seven yards. So if we stay within the context of the "most likely" fight, ten yards may not be the best place to start. This also has a lot to do with confidence. Starting where one can excel, then slowly moveing back to establish limits can be very helpful to the newer guys confidence.

AR15FAN
December 11, 2006, 07:52 AM
You are right Sweatnbullets, I'm just a simple range shooter not a CCW and I don't need such advanced training. I shoot to forget and have a good time, not for my life or job, and I think I'm glad about that, but don't let me rain on your parade. :) I joked at first because you had such an intense post that came out of nowhere, not prefaced, and went to warp speed in 3 seconds. I know there are many on here that will be interested, I just wrote what hit me at the moment, no intention to offend.

threegun
December 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
S'n'B, Don't let a vocal minority prevent you from pushing your course. I personally enjoy your posts and learn from most of them......which is the ultimate goal of most here on TFL. Until your first post (that I saw) months ago, my movement consisted of half steppin usually backward or rear 45 degree to seek cover while engaging. I never even thought about the movement you teach much less shooting at the same time. I am truly thankful that you opened my eyes to a form of shooting that could most definitely save my life. While it is hard to learn, most things in life worth a hoot are.

Sweatnbullets
December 11, 2006, 02:32 PM
Here are some decent photos of "the groucho and the turret of the tank" by one of the very best shooters alive today.

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JARRETT2-1/jarrett2-1.html

Check out this video and this guys use of movement. Nice use of the movement continuum, a little bit of a number of different points along the continuum.

http://www.henningshootsguns.com/movies/2006Open/2006_usopen_stage18_chris%20(1-100).wmv

Sweatnbullets
December 11, 2006, 02:55 PM
S'n'B, Don't let a vocal minority prevent you from pushing your course.

Thanks three gun. I try to give a lot more than just "pushing my course" though.:D

As armedandsafe stated this is very much about training the mind. I can train the mind on a gun forum, training physical skills is much better with hands on inside of a course. But the reality is that the mind is the weapon...everything else is just a tool.

Training the mind is something that I feel that I am pretty good at....at least that is what I am told by numerous people on the gun forums. Even with the difficulty of expressing concepts in a written form, my writings have been very well received.

All I want to do is to get people to look at things in a manner that helps illuminate the bigger picture. Fundamentals are very important.....but they are only a foundation that needs to have something built on. Marksmanship skills are only a starting point. The priorities are pretty well established in the world of the gun and they go in this order,

Mindset
Tactics
Skill
Equipment

What we are talking about here is mindset and tactics...... IMHO the most important stuff. We can go through some pysical skills but those simply are not as important as the other two.

S&B is explaining the Fluid Threat Response.

Since you brought it up, I will go ahead and post that also for the newer guys.

Fluid Situational Response

In the world of the gun there are two types of responses to a life threatening event. The first and most popular is the conditioned response. A few examples of conditioned responses would be stand and deliver, the controlled pair, and to always make use of your sights. These are responses that we train into ourselves with the hope that when the SHTF we will default to our training and this programming will save the day.

While I was learning the Modern Techniques, (MT) I constantly questioned the logic behind many of the conditioned responses. To me, there was very little common sense attached to these conditioned responses. Even as a newbie I knew that I would never fight in this manner. It went away from the logic of all of my past experiences. As I trained and trained in the MT, I always held on to the realization the MT's were just going to be a foundation, a foundation that I built my fighting style on top of.

As I progressed, I began to incorporate what I thought a common sense fighting style would entail. I began to seek out people that thought as I did. My observations were confirmed again and again by highly respected "been there done that" guys, most notably a Federal Agent that went under the handle 7677 and firearms instructor Gabe Suarez . They would write posts of their real world experience that coincided with my thoughts and observations As my suspicions were verified, my training progressed into an area that very few people have explored. I began to embrace the second type of response, the concept of natural human response.

As I participated in and witnessed FOF encounters while training with Gabe, it became very clear that the vast majority of the people that trained on a regular basis, cast aside their training when the action was fast and close. They would default to their natural human response. They solved problems at a sub-conscious level. I witnessed many people doing things that they had never been trained to do. After the encounter I would talk to them about their response. Many of these students actually did not know what they had done to solve the problem. As I told them what they did, they would often look at me in disbelief that they reacted in that manner. This furthered my interest in the subject, which lead me to my next level of enlightenment.

I call this level fluid situational response. The concept is that you can incorporate your natural human response and your conditioned response and use them fluidly in the appropriate situation all along, what 7677 calls the "fight continuum" and what Gabe calls "progression of the fight." I know some of you will say that this does not stay within the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, or that it does not conform to Hicks law (the more options you have, the longer it will take to access an option). IMHO this is just not so. Hicks law applies to conditioned responses, that is why you should have a mastery of a few essential techniques. Hicks law does not apply to natural human response. There is no lag time to access these responses. Your body will choose the solution to the problem in a microsecond at a subconscious level. Accepting this to be fact opens up a world that very few have explored.

My training is now geared to my fluid situational response. The response is dictated by time, distance, and where you find yourself in the reactionary curve. The position on the reactionary curve is the most important factor to your response. This is where natural human response of "fight or flight" takes over. IMHO you should embrace the "fight or flight" response and train within that response. One thing to keep in mind, when it comes to firearms "fight or flight" is also "fight and flight." The direction you move, the speed of your movement, the necessary visual input to maneuver and to comprehend the problem, the necessary visual input needed to make the hits, and the necessary visual input to recognize the situational changes in your position in the OODA loop, are all dependent on your position in the reactionary curve.

There is no doubt that at certain distances, going hands on before you access your handgun is the very best response. But for now, let's take a look at responses that are outside of hand to hand ranges.

If you have succeeded in being ahead in the reactionary curve due to awareness, deception, distraction, or metsubishi (throw something in the face of your adversary) you are in a dominant position. Conditioned responses are excellent for this situation. Stand and deliver, sighted fire, aggressively advancing to your 12:00 are all appropriate responses.

If you find yourself even in the reactionary curve, your response will have to be different. Conditioned responses may not get the job done as well as natural human response. The fight and flight response will kick in and you will want to get out of the kill zone. Move as you draw, put hits on the adversary as soon as you can using target focused skills, work towards getting inside of the adversaries OODA loop by your movement, ballistic effect, and acquiring his flank. Once you have turned the OODA loop in your favor, embrace your fluid situational response and shift from a reactionary position to the dominant position and eliminate the threat.

If you find yourself well behind the reactionary curve, your response will have to change even more. A conditioned response could be suicide, your best hope is a natural human response. A surprised response can be use to your advantage and you must train to be comfortable within your surprised response. Flight may override fight, because you must survive the initial contact so that you can get into the fight. Explode out of the kill zone while drawing your weapon, move to cover if near, put hits on the adversary using target focus skills, look to turn the tide, if the situation changes, flow into the next appropriate response.

Once you embrace your fluid situational response you will go places that you never thought were possible, Where your mind is the weapon and the gun is just an extension of your mind, and everything flows with no conscious thought.

The inevitable question arises, "what is more important, to get the hits or to not get hit?" The fluid situational response answers that question. When you are ahead of the reactionary curve, it is more important to get the hits. You are in the dominate position....ELIMINATE THE THREAT! If you are even on the reactionary curve the importance are equal. Use a balance of speed (of movement) and accuracy to solve the problem. If you are behind in the reactionary curve it is more important to not get hit. Get out of the kill zone by "thinking move first." Sprint to cover if it is near or access your handgun on the sprint and put hits on your adversary. Always look to get inside of the adversaries OODA loop and progress through your fluid situational response until you are either dominating the confrontation or have put yourself in the position to terminate the confrontation.

threegun
December 11, 2006, 03:36 PM
Thanks three gun. I try to give a lot more than just "pushing my course" though.

Believe me you have already....thanks. When the moon and stars line up just right I will take your course. Until then I will practice it as I understand it from print.

Slugthrower
December 11, 2006, 06:38 PM
Most of what I see here , is good stuff for the beginner. I am not knocking any of what has been said. The only thing is the terminology. In the ARMY they "off-load and on-load". Sounds good, but really all they are doing is unloading or loading. Pet peeve, I suppose. No disrespect is intended.

Movement while engaging targets is good. Still it is not enough. Try shooting moving targets as you move. That should be the next stage. Two handed shooting styles are rigid and not very fluid. Single handed use of a "Handgun" is also needed. Point shooting and aimed fire are needed to be well rounded.

If a person tries to clear a room using the two handed style and begins "slicing the pie" of a doorway or hallway. They will find that their shoulder and arm will be visible before they can sight the threat. Use a mirror while attempting to clear a doorway. Place the mirror such as it will be facing you at a 90 degree angle in relation to yourself as you search for your own reflection. You will be amazed at how much of your upper body is exposed. The way to circumvent this is to use a one handed technique.
I will not go into detail as to how you do this, but I will say that it can be done. Experiment.
When done correctly you will have only the pistol, part of the hand and a very small part of the head exposed to incoming fire. When approaching the opening on the right side and holding the handgun in the right hand you must blade the body accordingly. If you approach the opening from the left you will have to use your left hand. Creating a mirror image of the right side , right hand approach.
Single handed pistol use and bladed stances are usually frowned upon, as they are considered unstable. I, however find that in limited cases that they can be superior to the common two handed styles.
The Aimed fire , rigid two hand styles and the single handed styles with instinctual point shooting should be merged to obtain the most appropriate techniques for the situation. Fluid is the goal.

Sweatnbullets
December 11, 2006, 07:06 PM
Very nice slugthrower....hard to believe you and I got off on the wrong foot because we are on the exact same page. Sure my course covers movement but for well rounded movement skills you must havd excellent point shooting and one handed skills. This is what my course does. I have been formally taught Fairbairn, Sykes and Applegate point shooting, Quick fire and Quick Kill. I also have a solid understanding of Fistfire and the current military Reflexive fire. I am pushing one handed use as hard as any instructor as I have ever seen, especially inside of dynamic movement, lowlight, and house clearing.

Here are my thoughts the best way to make hits with dynamic movement.

The advantages of one handed shooting with dynamic movement

If you can not hit the targeted area, just about as well with one hand as you can with two, then two handed may be your only option. But this limitation may cause limitatons inside of your dynamic movement skillset

If you have good one handed skills, these skills really shine inside the "dynamic" portion of the movement continuum. The support side arm and hand can be used to help facilitate the following.

The support side arm can be used to help facilitate the explosive move off of the X (pumping of the arm), to increase speed (pumping of the arm), for balance, to improve your ability to make directional changes, to fend off, to help negotiate through, along, or around, and most importantly as a counter balance and stabalizing force.

On the counter balance and stabalizing force, this is the same principle as the way a Cheetah or Cougar uses it's tail when it is moving dyanamically. The support side arm is used in a natural manner to counter balance the extended handgun. It also stabalizes the handgun from the rolling of the shoulders and the slight twisting of the body that you get while you are running. It also mitigates the bobbing that comes from the impact of the feet on the ground. The use of the support side arm in this manner helps facilitate a more "consistant index" during your dynamic movement by "floating" the handgun. At logical distances this consistant index is so reliable that you can work the trigger as fast as you can with no need to verify that you are indexed on target in between your shots (great when you are behind in the reactionary curve and are fighting to take back the initiative.)

Anytime that you have two hands on the gun, while you are moving dynamically, the body mechanics of this will make the handgun bounce more and move side to side more....like a big @$$ infinity symbol. With one hand, the gun can "float" better (less negative shock input from two seperate sides of the body). You will be able to index on to the targeted area much more reliably. The added benifit of the support side arm working as counter balance and stabalizer is another huge asset.

To test this, try this. From seven yards, with two hands, bring the handgun up to the line of sight, and focus hard on the front sight. Now run towards target and note the amount of movement across the targeted area (infinity pattern). Now try it with one hand with the support side arm held at the chest, note the movement across the targeted area. Now use it one handed with the support side arm used to facilitate smoothing out the firing side arm. This will be a natural swinging motion, but changes slightly due to the direction that you are moving. How to swing the arm is up to you, but remember this quote from Enos, "just pay attention and your body will figure it out."

You will see that your handgun will have significantly less movement across the targeted area. So much so, that you are constantly indexed on to the targeted area at logical distances. This constant index moves you past the point where you need constant alignment verification. You can now work the trigger as fast as you can and you will make the hits.

All of this is dependent on solid one handed fundamentals. If you are not accurate one handed while static, then you can not judge the technique of which I speak while moving dynamically.

Four Elements of Accurate Shooting with Dynamic Movement

There are four elements that I have found that helps facilitate being able to make hits with dynamic movement with a handgun. They are quite simple, but am very surprised that they have never been written down before. My definition of accurate is inside of the thoracic cavity

(1) Absolute confidence in your point shooting skills. You must have your point shooting skills down to a subconsciously competent level.

(2) Elimination of negative visual input. The gun should not be in your line of sight. You should not be able to see the sight alignment. You should only be able to verify that the arm, hand, and entire weapon is aligned on the targeted area. Having the negative visual input of the gun moving in front of your eyes will slow down your speed on the trigger. You need to trust your point shooting skills and know that you are aligned and work that trigger as fast as you can.

(3) One handed shooting skills. You must be able to shoot very well one handed. Two handed shooting on the run is not nearly as effective or efficient as one handed shooting (when you are working the trigger as fast as you possibly can) IMHO. This is something that is easily proven. It really is basic body mechanics.

(4) The ability to use the support side hand and arm in a natural manner to stabilize the firing side hand. The support side arm swinging in a manner that counter balances and stabilizes the handgun is a very natural ability. Concentrate on stabilizing the handgun, understand that your support side arm is a key factor in that regard, and do as Letham says "Pay attention and your body will figure it out."

That is all there is to it. Take it out to the range....play with it for a while. Let me know what you think or if you have any questions.

Slugthrower
December 11, 2006, 08:29 PM
Part of this mindset and tactics is strictly of the mind. Reflexive action is what needs to be first in the fight. Then as the conscious mind catches up the tactics come into action. Point-shooting gives you time to place reasonably accurate fire upon the perceived threat. The shots, if not effective, provide suppression. Then, as the mind gets in gear, you will use aimed fire and tactics to gain advantage. The entire time you just do what comes natural. Natural in that you are reacting on instinct and not second guessing yourself.

Teach a person to hit a ball. You can use geometry to explain the mechanics of how it is done. They will not hit the ball thinking about it.
You must let the mind tell you when to swing, not tell the mind to when to swing. Swinging the bat and hitting the ball is the only real way to learn how.

Shooting exactly what you want , when you want ,and where you want will only happen when the weapon and user are as one. Relax. Don't try so hard. Moving and shooting is a matter of timing , let the subconcious mind do it. If you think about making the shot, you won't. See the shot.

Swing swing swing: shoot shoot shoot. The repetition will make you one.

armedandsafe
December 11, 2006, 09:39 PM
Back in the mid-70s, I was having a very hard time with one of my students, who would stop and turn her hips toward the target every time she pulled the trigger. Because I was also teaching roller-dance at that time, I was able to get use of the rink after midnight, when it was empty. I put her on roller skates and geve her a flashlight of the GI right-angled head type. I set up light sensors at several places around the rink and shoved her out on the floor. Within 3 flops, she realized that shifting the direction your feet point, away from the direction you are traveling, HURTS. :D An hour on skates taught her what I had been pounding on her about for a week.

Pops

Sweatnbullets
December 12, 2006, 11:28 AM
Within 3 flops, she realized that shifting the direction your feet point, away from the direction you are traveling, HURTS.

Darn good lesson! I believe that this type of thinking comes from peoples dependency on a stance or a position. Accurate fire is not stance or position dependent and this myth needs to be put to rest. A stance or a postion is just a starting point. One should be able to make accurate hits from any position and any angle....with sights and without sights......with light and without light. This would be the ultimate goal. Breaking people of these myths opens up a whole new world to people. A world that makes your "reality" skill level much better and a world that makes your range time a lot more enjoyable and exciting. Let's face it punching holes in paper using the fundamentals becomes very boring very quickly....a couple of hours and a couple of hundred rounds and your done. I go to the range with a couple of thousand rounds, I am there for most of the day, and never get bored.....and still do not cover everything that I could cover.

Well rounded, verstile, able to adapt, absolute knowledge in your strengths and weaknesses, and knowing your exact limitations in numerous situations is the only way to go IMHO.

Sweatnbullets
December 12, 2006, 11:45 AM
Reflexive action is what needs to be first in the fight. Then as the conscious mind catches up the tactics come into action.

The entire time you just do what comes natural. Natural in that you are reacting on instinct and not second guessing yourself.

Moving and shooting is a matter of timing , let the subconcious mind do it. If you think about making the shot, you won't. See the shot.

Very nice! It is rare that I run across people that think as I do (and the people that taught me) on this subject. It is not a widely accepted concept due to much of the past training over the last 25-30 years....but it is an absolute viable one. The level I am at now and the level that I strive to get my students to, would be a "subconsciously competent" level. A level where you have a problem (a threat in need of ventilation) and a solution (ventilation in progress) and everything in between is handled at the subconscious level......you do not even need to think about it. As much as I hate to use the word ...it is Zen like. When you are really rocking and rolling there is an amazing feeling attached to it....a problem and a solution....period.

By doing this you leave the conscious mind free to work on decisions that are best left to it, such as tactics.

Slugthrower
December 12, 2006, 04:53 PM
Movement and single handed pistol use.

When you use a pistol for point shooting you must "float" the gun. What I mean, is that you must have the pistol leveled correctly at the target.Presentation is to be smooth and steady. Try walking in a "tactical" crouch while holding a coffee cup filled to within 1/4 inch of the rim. Holding the cup by the handle as you move about. Present the cup as it you are going to give someone the cup. Moving smoothly , as to prevent a spill. That it the way you will present the pistol. Smoothly and as quickly as possible.
You will notice that if you try to do this with both hands it is not as efficient. When using the actual handgun, the feel will be as if you are trying to touch them with the end of the pistol. The pistol must be a natural pointer for you. If the pistol you use isn't, get another. Point shooting requires the pistol to fit perfect. Aimed fire is preferred. Just sometimes there isn't enough time.

Make like a circle and be well rounded.