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Death from Afar
November 21, 2006, 10:12 PM
Picked up a few boxes the other day. Can anyone tell me the point of these, apart from "a bit of a hoot"?:confused:

roy reali
November 21, 2006, 10:34 PM
Wouldn't a slug from a .410 be similar to a round from a .41 magnum?

Death from Afar
November 21, 2006, 11:02 PM
I guess. But hunting anything bigger than a quail/rabbit with a .410 seems a bit, well, odd.

banditt007
November 21, 2006, 11:10 PM
as i remember a .410 slug has the same if not more power than a .44 magnum, i could be wrong but its what i think i remember...

sm
November 22, 2006, 12:03 AM
.410 slugs are surprising little buggers.

More than one deer has fallen to one just out the back door out in the country.
Funniest was the lady at home doing chores while her husband went 2 hrs away to hunt deer with his nice deer rifle. Spike buck got into her new landscape project out the back door, grabbed the single shot .410, and shot him.
Husband comes in, no deer. Wife has one out back waiting for him. :p

Racoons, feral cats, and other predator needs.

Physically limited folks , such as recovering from detached retina, back, shoulder surgeries - etc., are restricted by Doctor's orders on when and what they can shoot.

Slugs are another tool in the tool box for someone that cannot use the usual home defense shotgun. They cannot handle the heavier gun, and the recoil is too much.
1100 in .410 with slugs affords home options to these folks. Some just use a Single shot, a bit lighter, easier for them to handle.

.410s are often called an Expert's Gun, harder to run a straight in skeet for instance. Not the best gun to start a kid with- 28 ga is.

Still, for too many years the single shot .410 has been a staple in barns, behind the back door and all , with pellet and slug lods, on farms, ranches and other rural applications.

Fun? Oh sure! Lobbing slugs at a coffee can way out yonder is fun.

Then again taking out a critter on property, and not wanting to hit the tractor, barn, house - just works with a .410 slug.

Ballistic Products even has a slug reload kit available. Quite a few folks reload slugs for .410 and 28 ga.

hth

chemist308
November 22, 2006, 01:23 AM
A .410 single shot was my very first deer 'rifle.' I can't say I ever managed to shoot at a deer with it, but I've no doubt it would have done the job inside of 50 yards--which is all you could try for anyway with a single bead for a site.

kudu
November 22, 2006, 06:39 PM
2 years ago Indiana added the .410 as a legal deer hunting round. It has more oomph than a .357 by far. No rifles allowed for deer in Indiana. And they are surprisingly accurate out of my .410 shotguns.

Diggers
November 25, 2006, 05:17 PM
There is alot of argument about the .410 slug for deer. Some say that it looses power to fast, so when the slug get to target it doesn't have enough to do its job. Others say this is not an issue, you just have to know the limits of the slug and hunt within them. Makes sense I guess.

I really think the .410 is cool. I fun little gun. There are also 3" 000 buckshot shells, 5 pellets each, for the .410 that I think would make a good HD. At HD ranges that would be 5 74 grain pellets each at a bit over 200 foot pounds of energy. Seems pretty good.

Death from Afar
November 25, 2006, 11:21 PM
A lot of interesting stuff. I sliced up one of the slugs and was surprised to see that a lot of the shell is filled with sawdust or similier!

Powderman
November 26, 2006, 06:50 AM
Filled with sawdust? Whoa!!

I was always under the impression that they were solid cast lead--like any other slug.

Also, just as an aside--would .45 caliber bullets work well as slugs, with perhaps a rifled choke tube?

Greybeard
November 26, 2006, 07:58 AM
"sawdust" within shotgun shell (not the projectile) is likely "filler" or buffer between powder charge and projectile.

.45 bullets in a .410 ? Look at dem decimal points (.451, .452 etc.) then go figger ... :eek:

chemist308
November 26, 2006, 09:14 AM
Also, just as an aside--would .45 caliber bullets work well as slugs, with perhaps a rifled choke tube?
Of course, don't try this for obvious reasons, but I heard from my great uncle that 44-40 rounds could work. I tend to think this was way 'back in the day' and the bullets were cast lead.

jeager106
November 26, 2006, 10:08 AM
Oh, groan!
Another debate on the merits of making the .410 shotgun into a deer rifle.
Here's the agrument.
"sure the .410 will kill deer just fine. You only have to limit your shots to 50 yards.":rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Now back to reality. If a novice hunter sees ol' mossy horns 80 yards and is armed with a .410 the novice is darned sure going to shoot!
We all know the difference between real life and what is written on paper don't we?
Try some real ballistics data:
Here is what a FORTY FIVE caliber muzzle loading rifle has to offer.
Buffalo ball-et. A bullet much like a .410 s.g. slug. Muzzle velocity of 1452 f.p.s., m.e. of 937 foot pounds. Barely legal muzzle gee whiz for big game as set by some state agencies. In fact flat out out illegal ballistics as set by some state game agencies.
At 100 yards the m.e. is 394 foot pounds. Do you want to put that in the hands of a deer hunter? Don't we owe the animal a little more respect than that?
B.P.I. makes a .410 slug loading "kit".
Now hang on to your shorts because the ballistics of this "kit" makes the .410 into a slayer of T-Rex. The kit uses a .375 roundball , wieght 79 grains, with various powders that earn record shattering velocities that range from 1280 f.p.s. to a whopping 1320 f.p.s.
Fellas those ballistics are pretty darn close to the ballistics of the .32 Mag. pistol round. Hot diggity fire up the barbque grill we're gonna have fhresh venison now!
By the way. That .410 'kit' supplied by BPI is made in Europe where it is used as a pest control load.
The .357 Mag. pistol has better ballstics. Much better.
I argued with one gun nut who claimed (read full of $hit) he had a custom .410 and has taken deer out to 150 yards with it.
He descirbed it as: a H&R action, rebarreled to .41, RIFLED barrel, loaded with brass cases reworked from .303 Brit rounds.
Bullets were 210 grain made for the .41 magnum pistol.
The gun nut, if his story were even true, didn't realize that he was NOT shooting a .410 s.g. anymore!
So would some of you that advocated the .410 as a viable deer killer please copy some real ballistic data and paste it here for me.
I can hardly wait to be shed of my hard kicking 12 bore!

publius
November 26, 2006, 08:26 PM
Yes, a .45 long colt will fire out of a single shot .410. Probably not a good idea, but I,ve seen it done successfully.

suemarkp
November 27, 2006, 10:52 PM
And probably only in a gun marked 45 Colt/410. There are a few guns like this (Taurus 4410, T/C contender, some derringers, and maybe a NEF rifle).

Doing this with a normal 410 is just plain dumb. I don't even think the round will chamber since a 410 hull is about .455 in diameter, and a 45 colt is .465 at the brass case mouth.

A 410 slug that has a wad around it will measure about .375". If it only has a wad behind it, then it could be maybe .400". I believe the .410 bore measurement is a little less than .410 with a full choke.

Maser
November 28, 2006, 01:36 AM
I have always wanted to try .410 slugs, but was too scared to because my .410 shotgun (now belongs to my little brother) was a fixed full choke and I have always heard horror stories about a slug fired from a full choke would blow the barrel up. Of course now I realize the only thing that happens is very poor accuracy.

Anyways, i'm sure a .410 slug would work fine on small deer at close ranges such as 75 yards. Please don't quote me because I have no experience and am just assuming. ;)

roy reali
November 28, 2006, 08:51 AM
I see that you live in California. Until recently I did to. You should know that Golden State deer are unique. No mere .410 slug will drop one. Even the good ole' .30-30 will just bounce off their hide. It is the BALCO thing you know.:D

jeager106
November 28, 2006, 08:17 PM
Given the fact that most .410 shotties are single shots with an itty bitty bead excuse for a front sight I doubt you could hit a deer at 75 yards.
It would be better for the deer that you didn't hit it with a .410 slug.
I see a lot of "I heard" stories but not one post with any personal experiences at all with the .410 slug.
My only experience with the tiny slug was with a single shot H&R and the 2.5" Winny slug.
I benched the thing at 25 just for grins.
The slugs tumbled and keyholed the target.
Well those that even hit the target.
How about someone with some real experience with the .375" slug in the .410 bore post some pics of the targets for us dummies?
Any takers?

kudu
November 29, 2006, 07:59 PM
How about someone with some real experience with the .375" slug in the .410 bore post some pics of the targets for us dummies?
Any takers?

I'll see what I can do, it was 70 degrees here today, but a storm front is moving in tonight with T-storms and a high tomorrow of about 40 with snow predicted for the whole weekend.

If I get a break tomorrow I'll put 4 rounds through a target at 75 yards through my SxS. In the past it will group them in about 4"-5". I use Federal slugs, they are about .398 diameter and my chokes are mod and full in the gun. It is very well regulated as both barrels shoot very close to the same point of impact. The full choke measures .390, mod is .394.

kudu
November 30, 2006, 07:42 PM
The weather is lousy, rain all day. I got out about dusk when it was just lightly raining and shot a 50 yard group. I used my Huglu SxS .410 with the full and mod barrels. I have added a mid bead for target purposes, it is very close to ideal for aiming slugs.

Using Federal Power-Shok slugs. 1/4 oz with advertised muzzle velocity of 1775fps. I had 4 shots in 1.9" with a fifth shot as a flyer opening it up to 3.8".

I am having problems with my pics, don't know if they will come up.

jeager106
November 30, 2006, 08:47 PM
kudu:
That is extrodinary! Most SXS won't throw a slug from each barrel within a foot of one another at 50.
I'm duly impressed. I have a .410 myself but it's a single shot, and just yesterday I bought some Winchester 3" 1/4 oz. ammo with an advertized velocity of 1800 f.p.s.
Weather here has been the same as yours. Warm, windy and very rainy.
I will try to bench the single shot this week and see if I can hit the paper at 50.
How many deer you taken with that tack driver of yours?

kudu
December 1, 2006, 06:02 PM
jeager106,

My SxS is a rarity as far as regulated barrels go, I can't believe when they build them in Turkey they spend hours aligning the barrels, just luck on their part I would guess. My Rem 1100 skeet .410 will group slugs very similar to the Huglu. I talked to a friend today that had his grandson take a deer on monday with a single shot .410 at about 40 yards. It ran about 150 yards before it dropped. The ballistics are just a bit better than a .357mag handgun, a 1/4 oz slug weighed in on my scale at 107 grains.

I rarely hunt anymore, been about 9 years since I have deer hunted, lost the urge to hunt after my safari in Africa in 95'. Nothing here compares for me. I do the occasional bird hunt and would like to get out west to hunt sometime but I am more into just plain shooting. I would like to take one with the .410 to just say I have. Taken them with .357mag, 41mag, .45Win Mag, handguns, and 12 and 20 gauge shotguns and with muzzleloaders. I have a 10ga that I have some slugs for also that needs to have a deer taken with it. :D

I have been trying to make a mould for 28ga slugs, got some prototypes, but haven't had the time I need for testing and tweeking loads for them. The Ballistic Products round ball load was tried in 3 different 28 ga guns with a variety of chokes, the best I could do was about 15" at 50 yards.:( I'll get one of my prototypes figured out one of these days. :D

el Divino
December 30, 2006, 02:42 PM
I don't know if 45 long colt, i haven't done it but 45 colt I have and killed a pair of wild hogs with them

auburnboattail
December 30, 2006, 05:36 PM
Our state (Indiana) shotgun only for whitetail. Most of our kills are at 50 yards or under, brush, scrub, heavy woods. I have taken a deer with .410 slug. It would not be my choice but my daughters and wife like them for whitetail and upland game as they are comfortable.

.351winchester
December 30, 2006, 06:22 PM
How long has it been since you can't use rifles on deer in Indiana? What in the hell. I could see maybe in some east coast state with no rural area to hunt on but from what I have seen of Indiana, only a rifle would do. Just curious how that came about, not to hijack the thread. Almost unbelievable it's so ridiculous.

auburnboattail
December 30, 2006, 06:42 PM
I am 50+ and have been hunting since I was about 8 and I have only known shotgun for whitetail.So I think Indiana has been shotgun only a long time

kudu
December 30, 2006, 07:25 PM
45 colt can be shot from 410

Do not try to shoot a .45LC in a .410 shotgun, it will go KA-BOOM. Yes they will chamber fine, but try to push that .45 caliber bullet down a .400 shotgun bore and it will mess something up big.

How long has it been since you can't use rifles on deer in Indiana? What in the hell.

It's been that way in Indiana at least 50 years, my dad doesn't know when it came about either. For a while I don't believe most of the state even had a deer season they were so rare. My grandpa used to tell about a deer that stayed with the herd of milk cows when he was a boy in the 1920's, it was the only one they had ever seen for several years running. Southern Michigan is also a shotgun only deer area.

In Indiana we can hunt squirrels with anything we want, a .50BMG is legal if we want to use it, but we can't use a rifle for deer hunting.

guisseppi
December 31, 2006, 03:25 PM
But hunting anything bigger than a quail/rabbit with a .410 seems a bit, well, odd

I have a friend (Steve) in Ohio that owns a Game Bird hunt club.. Every February I make the trip from Florida to Ohio and do a bit of Pheasant / Quail / Partridge hunting with him.. There is a little saying at the hunt club that goes like this: Use a 12Ga because you have to.. A 16 Ga to give the bird a chance.. A 20 Ga. because you can.. a 28 Ga. because your good .. and a .410 to show off!!! Personally I use a Browning Sweet 16 because I just love to shoot that gun...

auburnboattail
December 31, 2006, 05:04 PM
While .410 is not my choice for whitetail.
I do frequently use it for rabbit, quail and squirrel,dove.
I have not been successful on pheasant with 410

jsflagstad
January 2, 2007, 10:58 PM
I have shot a few Pheasant, Ruffed Grouse (Partridge) and many clay pigeons with my .410 pistol (Thompson Contender .410/45 Colt). For deer, I handload the 45 Colt up to 1625 feet per second with a 250 grain Hornady XTP JHP, plenty of power (1400+ fpe). I ran the numbers on the .410 slugs that I have and got considerably lower figures than some of you are stating. I cut one of the slugs apart and weighed the projectile at 90 grains. On the chronograph in juniors single shot they averaged right about at 1000 fps, so on the calculator they are yielding just short of 200 fpe. I decided to not let junior shoot a deer with these and got him a 50 cal muzzle loader instead.

JSF

Richard47
January 3, 2007, 12:12 AM
My daughter has killed 2 deer with a 410 slug. 22/410 has rifle sights and very little recoil. Both deer at about 30 yds, one shot kills and they both dropped right away. 30 yd shots. She didn't like recoil but is a dead shot with this thing.

We still have to use shotguns, she was small and I was in the stand to back her up. But I would not recommend a 410. An SKS would have been perfect, but alas, not legal.

She's bigger now and uses a 12 auto.

Abby
January 3, 2007, 12:23 AM
I was just "up home" (Michigan) and was offering congrats to...(what's the term for a cousin's child? Is that a second cousin?). Anyway, she'd dropped a very nice 8 pt this year (her first year hunting).

I asked what she was using.

".410"

I, of course, complimented her, saying it must have been a very nice shot. She shrugged and replied, "well, he was like 15 feet away."

Interesting to me because I'd never heard of anyone actually using the .410 on whitetails. I've used the 20 with success, but I don't think I'd be comfy with the little slug. But, apparently, they DO work.

Now, if we could just outlaw those annoying kids shooting great big deer their first year out... :rolleyes:

jsflagstad
January 3, 2007, 08:27 AM
I think a gun that would sell like hot cakes for "Juniors First Gun" types would be a budget priced rifled .410 single shot with iron sights and provisions for a scope mount and heres the best part: the ability to shoot up to full house 454 Casull loads, and of course with that the ability to shoot 45 Long Colt would be there as well. Use the .410 birdshot for fowl, clays and small game, the 45 LC for deer and such and the 454 Casull for deer on up to anything else that walks around North America (elk, grizzly, polar bear, etc...).

Now sure, the 454 Casull wouldn't be the best for junior to start out with but that's where the 45 LC comes in. That is a dandy little cartridge that packs some good power with little recoil.

As I was writing this I thought that this gun may be available in a Thompson Encore. I am not sure if they make a 454 Casull rifle barrel but they might, and I guess I'm not sure if they did would it accept .410 shot shells? With that said, I guess it wouldn't fit my first bullet point as being value priced.

So what do you guys think? Would it sell? I'd buy one today! Anyone out there work for Rossi, NEF or Mossberg? Those are the companys that I could see pulling something like this off...

JSF:)

kudu
January 5, 2007, 04:11 PM
The thing about switching .45LC and.410 shells is the gun is designed around the pistol cartridge. Contender barrels are .45LC and can fire .410 shells with the added choke device to restrict the shot down to about .405 diameter. A .45LC cannot be shot while the choke device is installed without ruining the barrel. :mad: I have shot skeet with the Contender, and it is FUN, but you cannot get anything but an OPEN pattern out of the barrel. The Contender barrel is also rifled, which adds to open shot patterns.

I think a gun that would sell like hot cakes for "Juniors First Gun" types would be a budget priced rifled .410 single shot with iron sights and provisions for a scope mount and heres the best part: the ability to shoot up to full house 454 Casull loads, and of course with that the ability to shoot 45 Long Colt would be there as well.

To make the gun accurate, it would need a fully rifled barrel in .451 to run .45LC and .454 Casull rounds. It will still theoretically shoot .410 shells, shot or slug, slugs usually mic out at about .400-.405, shot will be bouncing down th ebarrel and rifling, even with an added choke tube to control a shot a shot pattern, leading will be a severe problem.