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Pistolman1974
November 5, 2006, 12:05 AM
What is you opinion on carrying multiple action types. For example monday you carry a single action 1911, tuesday a glock, wednsday a da/sa auto.

JohnKSa
November 5, 2006, 12:25 AM
I carry multiple platforms. But I try to make sure that they all "act externally similar".

In other words, carrying one gun with a safety that is safe in the down position and a second that's safe in the up position is likely to cause confusion. My personal opinion is that confusion about how to operate an item that you're planning to stake your life on is not such a good thing.

Trip20
November 5, 2006, 12:34 AM
Many people carry multiple types of weapons depending on wardrobe.

As long as you practice with each, and are also familiar with clearing FTE and FTFs...etc... then I don't see what the issue would be.

I suppose it doesn't follow the K.I.S.S. principle...

clt46910
November 5, 2006, 12:58 AM
I do carry multiple platforms. IF you are willing to put in the time to actually HANDLE your firearms, you can do it.

I am not talking about shooting them, that is a different. I am talking about actually handling them so that you know what you have as soon as it hits your hand.

Shooting, after a few hundred thousand rounds, is rather a simple skill. You may not be the best at it but very proficient at it. Handling your firearm is very different. You have to build a muscle memory for each firearm you plan to use. That takes more then just shooting it. You have to handle it, get both your mind and muscle memory use to what it feels. Not what you see.

You have to understand I am 58 years old and have been doing this all my life. I handle my guns. I will unload them and handle them at home. All the time. I play with them, take them apart, insert mags, practice speed loads, etc all the time. Watch TV and handle a gun, I am reading a book and handling a gun, I walking across the floor and have a gun in my hand. Always have one in my hand, many times different ones. As soon as I pick up the gun, I know what it is and how to load and unload it, clear a jam, and where all controls are just from the feel in my hand. My muscle memory takes over because it remembers from practice.

Not just the shooting, but the handling.

Just as a electrician, mechanic or carpenter can use many different tools from just picking them up, you have to learn to do the same with your tools. Your tools just happen to be guns.

shield20
November 5, 2006, 10:27 AM
I think its silly. If you spend enough time with 1 weapon, the procedure, feel and even forces involved (trigger pull etc.) become ingrained in the body. When you do repetive drill such as fast draws, double taps, etc. your body becomes used to those motions and forces. Mix in another weapon with different characteristics, and you will not be as...in control?..atleast for a what could be a few critical moments.

For instance, practice CC drills with a DA/SA, or a LEM or even a Glock exclusively, with no safeties and heavier longer trigger pulls for just a few range sessions, then next time start out cold with the same drills like a fast draw with a 1911. IF you clear the safety correctly, there's a good chance that 1st light short trigger pull goes off early.

Or try shooting something like a 1911 with a push-in mag release alot, and then transition to an HK with a push-DOWN mag release, that is the same motion as the slide release on the 1911, and it takes some thinking or some time to get used to the differences.

I have seen this type of stuff too often in my own experience. I am not saying SHOOTING is any problem, especially nice slow aimed fire, but for CCW, I stick to one piece, or atleast 1 manual of arms and 1 trigger pull.

here's a recent thread on the same subject..http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225430

PaulBk
November 5, 2006, 01:55 PM
If you can use multiple platforms with equal skill, then you're a daisy. I can't, so I keep all my platforms the same. DAO only, similair trigger pulls and weights, and only a couple of CCWs. I want the ground to be as familiar as possible at all times.

-PB

Dwight55
November 5, 2006, 04:49 PM
Personally, . . . I have several different platforms, . . . but I don't CCW them all.

I practice much more with the ones I do carry, . . . and of course, . . . having 40 years worth of handguns in my hands at one time or another, . . . it's already been said, . . . muscle memory tells you what to do as soon as you have it in your hand.

May God bless,
Dwight

chrisandclauida2
November 5, 2006, 06:11 PM
i think people are at best arrogant and worse negligent if they do this and think they can handle different action types.

you shouldn't be carrying different action types as your ccw. decocker weapons that go one way and 1911 that go another can only cause slower response and confusion.

worse if its not your life that is depending on your actions.

this is my opnion so give it what ever weight you want. i have decades of handling a weapon also so do many i know and none could carry different actions and realistically respond properly if they mix actions. at best you will have to think about what your carrying and take that half second or more to bring the weapon into action and worse you make your weapon safe and die instead of fire. or you put your weapon off safe and have a ND.

it just isnt the smart thing to do, tactically or intelligently.

every action has different sizes models and calibers. there just isnt reason to do this.

snolden
November 5, 2006, 11:46 PM
I like to think I mastered my DA/SA beretta that I ccw'ed daily for years. That is until I bought my first DAO pistol. That simplified my drawstroke, trigger press and resulted in far fewer decisions in the OODA loop.

So if you have less decisions to make, you can concentrate more on the ones you still have to deal with.

If you can at all avoid it, please only use one platform for SD. It reduces the number of things you HAVE to practice and allows you more time to practice the things you should practice.

good luck

pdkflyguy
November 6, 2006, 01:47 PM
It doesn't make any sense to me why people would carry different guns, let alone different platforms for CCW. The main reason for training with a CCW is that you should be used to using that gun specifically, so that when the time comes you are so comfortable it will be second nature. I only carry one weapon CCW, and that's just because I want to be certain I am using the correct weapon the correct way. I used to carry different types, but found that I got better results when i went shooting, if I only concentrated on the one.

James K
November 6, 2006, 02:22 PM
I am willing to bet I own more guns than most, but when I carried it was an S&W revolver, either a Model 36 or a Model 19. IMHO, the less you have to worry about or be concerned with at a bad time, the better. Ammunition capacity is not really a point, unless you plan a TV type shootout with hundreds of spaced out drug dealers.

I may be wrong, but I think those people who claim they would be able to handle a Luger, an M9, an M1911, a Glock, a Frommer Stop, a SAA Colt, and a Steyr M1911 with equal ability and ease are fooling themselves.

Jim

FirstFreedom
November 6, 2006, 02:40 PM
Agreed. 'Cept that, arguably a DAO and a DA/SA of similar size, weight, balance, & grip angle are similar enough that they should not cause any real issues. After all, with either, you point, click, and repeat. No other steps.

Jeremy Stafford
November 6, 2006, 11:09 PM
At the Police Academy where I was an Instructor, we noticed that after switching to the Glock, Officers would often "double clutch" on the trigger whenever they decided to shoot their old 92FS. This would most often happen when they were in the middle of shooting a rapid fire string and was caused by the difference in trigger reset between the two platforms. The shooters had gotten used to the shorter reset of the Glock, so when they went back to the 92, newly developed muscle memory would take over and they would not move their trigger finger forward far enough to reset the 92's trigger. I suppose that if you were dedicated enough to practice relentlessly with multiple platforms, this would be a non issue. Since most of us have multiple responsibilities in our lives, I think it just makes more sense to use different sizes of the same platform. That being said, I think it makes a great deal of sense to be at least nominally proficient with a wide range of platforms (just in case!!!).

Big Calhoun
November 7, 2006, 11:39 AM
I'll carry multiple from time to time, but I also train with multiple. So no matter which one I have, augmenting it is second nature. It just depends on your comfort level.

threegun
November 7, 2006, 01:36 PM
If you can use multiple platforms with equal skill, then you're a daisy. I can't,

Most can't. They may think they can but they can't.

The problem is as Snolden pointed out you just shouldn't clutter the OODA loop. We know that things done easily in practice are much harder in a high pressure life and death situation. Platform operations are no different. If you have multiple platform operations in your muscle memory and memory banks your brain still must decide which to use at the moment of grave need. Those choices alone with any other actions that must be performed to make a firearm hot are clutter. Since most of us haven't had the first hand knowledge on how we will react in a gunfight I think the smart thing to do is Keep it simple.

One platform for me for the last decade and a half. Different sizes and calibers but the same operating system.........Glock. K.I.S.S. is what I tell myself in preparation for any high pressure situations.

Big Calhoun, I am proficient with all my guns as well. I just don't want my brain to have any other duties than front sight on bad guys biggest part.

JN01
November 7, 2006, 05:49 PM
As long as you are well practiced with each, I don't see a problem. Lots of LE and others carry J-frames as back up to service autos- different platforms. Transitioning between handguns, shotguns, and rifles (radically different) isn't a problem. I have a manual transmission pick-up truck and an automatic transmission compact car that handle considerably differently, but I have no trouble transitioning between the two. Same with hand tools of the same kind but different size, weight, etc.

I could see a problem if you were to use one platform almost exclusively, then suddenly switched to another that you have little experience with, or if you use numerous platforms with little practice with any of them.

threegun
November 8, 2006, 12:15 PM
Jn01,
As long as you are well practiced with each, I don't see a problem.

Problem only manifests itself under intense pressure. If you are wrong (not saying you are) it won't pop up until judgment day and very well could tip the scale in your opponents direction.

I can only tell you that I have been startled many times while carrying. On a few occasions I found myself grabbing for my fanny pack when I had my holster on and visa versa. I can also tell you that I am super versed in drawing from both. If this indecision can happen with holsters why can't it happen with platforms? You pull and your brain applies platform #1's operating parameters only this day you are carrying platform #2. Yes you will quickly recover and get things right.......if you aren't dead. I err on the side of caution.

shield20
November 8, 2006, 12:23 PM
...Or you send that 1st SA round screaming over the head or into the feet of someone you were drawing on, possibly not intending to even shoot just yet, because yesterday you practiced with a DA but today have an XD, QA, 1911, etc.

threegun
November 8, 2006, 02:00 PM
...Or you send that 1st SA round screaming over the head or into the feet of someone you were drawing on, possibly not intending to even shoot just yet, because yesterday you practiced with a DA but today have an XD, QA, 1911, etc.

Absolutely dead on!!!!

My coworker shot a robber as he swung to point his gun at him. Despite being totally proficient with the 1911 his brain reverted back to the revolvers trigger pull (he carried a revolver for years). He shot the ground between them. Thankfully his round hit the robbers calf, causing him to drop the gun and run. This was all the proof I needed to believe that one platform is the way to go.

Blackwater OPS
November 8, 2006, 02:59 PM
I pretty much agree with the above, but I do sometimes carry a J-frame when the situation demands a more consealed option. I know its limitations and I really don't think I would confuse it with my standard carry item, a DA/SA full size auto. Also, I only carry the S&W in a ankle holster, while the auto is almost always IWB.

biere
November 8, 2006, 04:30 PM
I vote for one carry setup. I am doing better at shooting and handling my ccw piece since I stopped trying to be good with all my handguns.

New question coming on your backup being very different from your primary carry piece.

JN01
November 8, 2006, 05:31 PM
I dunno, I still think it's an overstated problem. Kind of like when a lot of the gun writers used to talk about how it's nearly impossible to use a TDA pistol because of the change from DA to SA.

Certainly though, if you do only use one type of gun all the time, it would make things simpler.

chrisandclauida2
November 8, 2006, 10:20 PM
i think carrying a different platform weapon as a bug is totally different than carrying different platforms for primary and rotating thru them.

this is because when you go to a bug you are mentally transitioning to that platform and as such it will be easier than if on Monday you carry a 645 smith and Tues you carry a mod66 and wed you carry a 1911. there will not be the cognitive mental decision that you have when you decide hay im transitioning to my bug so i will work it properly.

this said i think it is still by far better to carry the same platform bug as your primary.

big glock little glock.

big 1911 micro 1911

revolver/revolver etc.

i also think it is k to carry different brands that utilise the same controls in the same direction in the same location. but here still the trigger pull the way you hold it and the kind of sights will limit your effectiveness even if only slightly.

Fremmer
November 8, 2006, 10:46 PM
I don't know about carrying multiple platforms for CCW.

I can tell you about hunting, though. My experience has been that the best shooters in my hunting group use the same rifle year after year. That way they get very familiar with the same stock, trigger, loading/unloading, etc.
How does it go -- beware of the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it....

Others use a different gun each year; one guy does this because he owns so many nice hunting guns (I wish I had that problem :D). They don't seem to shoot as accurately as the one-gun hunters, probably because they aren't as familiar with the gun and how it shoots. I've heard an admission that the shooter had forgotten how the trigger on a particular rifle breaks, and it broke earlier than expected. A few are talented enough shooters that it doesn't really matter what gun they shoot. I suppose that I'm a little short on the talent, so I'm sticking with the same rifle to use every season. When it is pitch black, twenty degrees, and you are in a swaying-in-the-wind tree stand, you certainly don't want to be unfamiliar with the safety, or to have to think about the most efficient or fastest way to load the gun, or whether the trigger is lighter or heavier.

I don't know whether any of the above will help with a discussion concerning multiple platforms for CCW.

threegun
November 9, 2006, 03:03 PM
The stress of a life and death struggle can make you do some strange things. Just look at that officer who was putting his empties into his shirt pocket......during the gun battle. I just don't want to chance it. One platform or multiple super similar platforms. As for the bug, it should be one platform as well even if different from the main gun.

cz223
November 9, 2006, 08:47 PM
or at least operational similarity. I've got to throw in with shield and Three Gun on this one. I am not a cop,I don't carry in my line of work and have never been in a gunfight but, I have lots of guns and used most for one form of competion or other. Currently, for the last five years, I have done a considerable amount of Cowboy Action Shooting and, in the process, have screwed up in just about every way imagineable, and in some that are not.:confused: I have always thought that I was "smarter than that" and I wasn't. I have shot 38-40's through my 45 Colt, not real accurate. That was because I had two identical 1873s in different calibers. I have stepped to the line with my Marlin in hand only to have it jamb on the first round, 45's wont chamber in a 44 mag. Again, identical guns. Pretty much the same has happened to me when shooting my original winchester 97's, one a 12 and the other a 16. Once I settled down, realizing that I was never gonna be the fastest gun in the west, I started shooting a hammered double. A lot of style points here. With practice I got pretty fast cocking the hammers and it was second nature till I started using a hammerless every once in a while. With the hammerless I would reach for hammers that weren't there. With the mule-eared gun I would forget to cock the hammers. The same kind of thing will happen switching between a 97 and any double. If you watch someone that does this they will occasionaly take their finger of the trigger of their 97 and bring it behind it, they are looking for that second trigger. In the reverse, I have seen lots of shooters with doubles try to pull the same trigger twice and look at their gun when the second round doesn't go off. Most often they are new shooters or they are also trap shooters whos trap gun only has a single trigger. In fact one surprising thing that I have noticed in the last year or so was quite surprising. Recently several shooters have switched from a lever gun to a pump style rifle figuring that if the rifle functioned the same as their shotgun they would get better with both, not so. The stroke is so much longer on the shotgun than on the rifle that they just about rip the gun out of their hand the first time they cycle it. I would be willing to bet that the also experienced short strokes on their shotgun. The same is true for the lever shotgun/lever rifle theory. I have pretty much given up on shooting my 73 because the sroke is longer than the one on my Marlin and I will often short stroke the 73 because of "muscle memory". As much as I hate screwing up when competing, I would like it much less were my life to depend on it. It hasn't happened yet but I wouldn't be surprized if some day I grab my glock with two hands and try to thumb back the hammer with my off hand.:D I wonder if I'l be smart enough to get my thumb out of the way before I pull the trigger.:eek: I have learned my lessons and have setlled on Glocks for all my self defense issues. Toward that end I am currently buying a G32 in addition to the G23 that I Carry. I will probably buy at least one more G23 and, I think, a G19. Now, I know what you are thinking, what am I gonna do to keep from putting the wrong ammo in any of these guns? I am seriously considering havin them and there correspong Mags painted. Red for the 40s, yellow for the 357 sigs and Black for the 9s, what do you think? Yes, I am serious, I just don't know if I can afford it.