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Al G19
November 4, 2006, 10:07 PM
This is a request for help from any and all forum members. I need help figuring out if I am totally out of line in this matter. The matter in question is in regards to a trade that I was recently involved in on “The Firing Line” forum.

Below is all of the correspondence that has been up to this point exchange by both people involved, (Myself and Turkey45) I am also posting pictures of the items I received. I unfortunately didn’t take any Pic’s before shipping out my item, I can however provide overwhelming feedback references, that what I shipped was in VG condition (or I would have stated so)

My main problem with this entire deal, is that I was lied to about the condition of the item, I have never had a problem with any trades I have done via the internet on any gun related forum….until this piece of work.
I just want other peoples opinions, I feel like I was ripped off, and it’s just the thought of the way this guy handled it that has really gotten to me.

So I will do my best below to put all of our various e-mails in order, I also have only cut and pasted the letters, so any errors are what they are, on both of our sides.

The initial request by Turkey45, on the firing line forum, that I answered:
Then all of our exchanges in order as best as I can do..

wanted,,Used Harris bi-pod,,in WV...

..Will buy a used Harris Bi-Pod,for remington 700 rifle..
email tc45caliber@yahoo.com if you have one for sell
.........thanks..or may buy a new one if priced right..



My e-mail reply:
have one that's basically new, attaches to you front sling stud 45.00 shipped to you if you want it.
Thanks,
Al

is it a harris,,is it medium???is that your best deal???

Yes t's a Harris, Med. I think it's like 9 to 13" or so, It's the same one as I use when I shoot my rifle off of the bench. The lowest I'll go is 43.00 I don't want to loose any more money on it than that.
I'm open to trade offers as well....
Al

well cant think of much to trade,,,i have a new in box,,shooting vice..for pistol or rifle,
it is hard red plastic material,,its called a bench buddy,,they sell them at cabela,s
bass-pro,etc they cast $53.00 + shipping,come,s with a carring case,,its new in box..
i have a new simmons 8 point 3x9x40 scope,,low end but a good scope..i bound to have something around here???thanks..

I am looking for a decent AO scope for a 10/22, about 2-12X thereabouts, with an obj. no bigger than 40mm. Nothing fancy, just something decent.
Thanks,
Al


sorry dont have nothing like that...i would like to have one myself..LOL..
hey i have a mint cond,,Scrade-Walden H15,,hunting knife..that was in vietnam..


Do you have a pic of the knife?

no but i can get you one maybe..i would have to take it to my brothers for pictures
heck i dont even know how to mess with the picture download stuff,,the knife is mint cond,,blade lenth is 5 1/4 inch,with original leather sheath,,been in the family for years.it has brown stacked leather handles,,used very little,,razor sharp nothing
loose,,about it..nice ole-collectable hey i have no reason to luy to-ya my friend..
only the H15 was a combat knife..in NAM..LET ME KNOW.heck i just like trading...
..LOL..


Mike,
I got the link to the e-nay pic you sent. I too like trading, but the knife in that pic looks pretty crappy. If yours looked better I think I would be willing to trade, I just would prefer to see a pic first.
Thanks,
Al


yes it lookd alot better,,,your right that was a crappy,picture....i will go to my brothers
today and send you a picture..thanks..


hey my friend,,i did not have a chance to get the picture,,but trust me my friend
the knife is near mint,,no pitting or nothing,,if want to swap we will...hey i dont have to see the bi-pod..you trust me..i will trust you,,how does that sound??i even throw in some type of suprize item..when shipping..


Mike,
Done. I know what you mean, and Let's do some tradin'!
Send me your address and I'll ship it out via Priority mail as soon as I get your information.
Thanks,
Al

My Address:
AlXX XXXXXXXX
XXXX XX XXXX XX.
XXXXXX XX XXXXX
hey friend,,my wife two kids was born in tacoma,,one in seatal,,she once a post card
or picture of MT. RAINIER,,This happen years ago while stationed in tacoma,,she wants it for her oldest daughter...if you can do that let me know???thanks..
P.S. i will get the knife and who knows what in the mail to you...

Mike,
I'll get some postcards and put them in with the bipod, no problem. Just send me your information and I ship it off to you.
Thanks,
Al

my full name and address,,,,MICHAEL X XXXXXX
XXXX XXXXXXXXX XX
XXXXXXXXXX XX
ZIP XXXXX THANKS

let me know if you got the mailing info,,,some reason yahoo is kicking back the mail i send you???dont know why.

Mike,
I got it. I'll do my best to ship it out today via Priority mail.
Al


Mike,
The Bipod shipped out today via USPS Priority mail the delivery confirmation # is:
0306 0320 0000 1924 3742
I also stopped and picked up 4 or 5 different postcards and put them in the box.
Thanks,
Al

Al G19
November 4, 2006, 10:10 PM
Part 2
man your fast,,,LOL,,my wife will love the post cards,,thanks for the great favor,,
i will ship tommorow..thanks,,them kids was born 21 years ago..and are both
serving in Iraq...


mailed out your box,with the hunting knife,,and a other knife,,and a 209,capper
for muzzle loading,,maybe someone can use it,,thanks what were the post cards pictures of??myself i have never been to ,W.A..

Thanks, Mike.
If I recall correctly 2 were of Mt. Rainer, 1 of Mt. St. Helens, and I think 1 of the Seattle skyline. (I think)
Al


hey my friend,,my wife went to the mail-box,there was a pakage from you there..
that was supose to be for me,,she ran with it..would not even let me open it...
so it was her,pakage not mine..LOL..the post cards were great,believe me she is the type when she gets something,,they are kept,but anyhow the bi-pod was great also,,
one request from you,,do you believe in JESUS ..if not seek him while he maybe found,,,love you...God Bless You,,and yours...thanks michael,and wilma..

Mike,
Glad everything arrived quickly, and was what you were looking for. I'll let you know when the knife arrives.
Thanks,
Al


Mike,
I'm just curious when you shipped out the knife, as I have recieived nothing as of today.
Thank-you,
Al


you should be recieving it soon,,heck i think it was the day after i recieved the bi-pod..
but you will get it..thanks


Mike,
The knife and items arrived today. To be honest I don't think it is even close to the condition you described. I would like to have you ship my bi-pod back and I will send you the items you sent.
I wouldn't use what you've sent. The Schrade knife condition is poor at best, the sheath it's in is worse, the "Second knife" you added, is a Very cheap copy, and the sheath is...well it's something to hold the knife in. As for the capper thing, I totally have no use for that.
Needless to say I am very dissapointed, and upset. This is not what I had in mind at all. I even made a special stop to pick up the post cards you asked about. On top of this very poor equipment, the other thing that realy bothered me was the overwhelming smell of smoke on everything, I doubt it would ever come out of the leather espically with the condition the leather is in.
Please ship the bi-pod back via Priority mail, the same way I sent it to you, and I will ship your items back the same, in your box and packing cloth.
Thank you,
Al


look my friend,,im going to try to be as nice as i can,,first off we traded sight unseen,
for me and you,the knife i sent is in great cond,,just view a few at ebay,,that is a pre-vietnam fighting knife,,and very collectable..and i put the other items in for the cards,,
the t/c 209 capper cost,$13.00 as far as the leather,,the little knife case was hand made,,and here is what ticks my clock,,,(IF YOU WANTED SOMETHING FROM A SMOKE-FREE HOME MAKE SURE YOU ASK THE NEXT TIME)..look you had a used Harris by-pod,im going to value it at $30.00 bucks,,for the small one,,,so you
can go to what ever forum,,you want and say (bad) things about me if you like..
but i consider us (even) and this matter to be dropped,,put that in your (Pipe And
Smoke It)....


Mike,
1st. You described the knife as in Much better condition, I really don't care about the other items or the cards, As far as the Smoke free, I was just surprised at how overpowering the smell was.
I just want my bi-pod back, and I'll send you your items. You grossly mis-represented what you were offering.
Al


Here is a quote from you. Not my word's, these are from your description.
"
hey my friend,,i did not have a chance to get the picture,,but trust me my friend
the knife is near mint,,no pitting or nothing,,if want to swap we will...hey i dont have to see the bi-pod..you trust me..i will trust you,,how does that sound??i even throw in some type of suprize item..when shipping.."

I did trust you for the description, it was not even close to accurate..


See your quote below, Do you really think this was an accurate description???

michael rhodes <tc45caliber@yahoo.com> wrote:
sorry dont have nothing like that
hey i have a mint cond,,Scrade-Walden H15,,hunting knife..that was in vietnam..

Dear Al G19,

You have received a new private message at TheFiringLine Forums from
turkey45, entitled "Re: Bipod".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you
must log in here:
http://www.TheFiringLine.com/forums/private.php

This is the message that was sent:
***************

---Quote (Originally by Al G19)---
You ripped me off, I don't plan on quitting that quickly...
---End Quote---
..you beytter think again,,what do you think you had???a pot of gold,,
you had a used bi-pod,,that you must have wanted to keep,,,well you
should have kept the stupid thing,,
in fact i gave it away,,look you traded even,,
live with it,,im not in to trading and then changing
my mind,,and then writing a person,,in whining about
(smoke) on the item,,but i tell you what you best research the the H15
knife a little closer,,maybe you will feal better..what-ever..:)


Dear Al G19,

You have received a new private message at TheFiringLine Forums from
turkey45, entitled "Re: Bipod".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you
must log in here:
http://www.TheFiringLine.com/forums/private.php

This is the message that was sent:
***************

---Quote (Originally by Al G19)---
No,
I didn't think I had a "Pot of gold", Are you really that dense?
You did not even come close to accuratly describing what you were
offering....You Grossly misrepresented the condition!
You ripped me off with your description, 100%.
And yes I did save all of our e-mails. You said the knife was in "Mint
Condition", this thing is in poor condition at best. Is this the first
time you have ever had to grade the condition of something?
I did do re-search on this knife....Even in very good condition it's
not worth much either.
I took you at your word. I delivered what I said I would, you sent be a
used up piece of junk. Along with two more pieces of garbage.
I will allow you another chance to come clean and without having to
admit that you lied, just send back my bi-pod, and I will send you your
items.
I am not whining about the smell of the smoke...you moron, You STATED
THE CONDITION OF THE KNIFE AS MINT. ( Do you understand what "Mint
Condition" means???)
*_I HAVE NEVER_* Done a trade via ant gun forum on the net (and I've
done quite a few, look around) where I have asked for my item back. This
is different, you Lied.
So, like I said do the right thing and send me back my bi-pod (not a
"pot-of-gold", but at least it is actually useable, and in the condition
I stated.)
If you decide to not do the right thing I will post all of the pictures
and our e-mail's back and forth for the masses to be the judge of the
type of man you really are.
The choice is yours...
Al

Al G19
November 4, 2006, 10:14 PM
---Quote (Originally by turkey45)---
---Quote (Originally by Al G19)---
You ripped me off, I don't plan on quitting that quickly...
---End Quote---
..you beytter think again,,what do you think you had???a pot of gold,,
you had a used bi-pod,,that you must have wanted to keep,,,well you
should have kept the stupid thing,,
in fact i gave it away,,look you traded even,,
live with it,,im not in to trading and then changing
my mind,,and then writing a person,,in whining about
(smoke) on the item,,but i tell you what you best research the the H15
knife a little closer,,maybe you will feal better..what-ever..:)
---End Quote---
---End Quote---
do what ya got to do,,there is not one thing wrong with your item,,you
are just one of those who wants something perfect,,and
boot,,(SMOKE-FREE) cry baby,,
***************

And below are the pictures of the item’s I received, of important note is the “Mint Condition Knife”

I think I have too many, so I’ll put a link to the ones I just put on the photo bucket site.


I think I have the below correct, feel free one and all to contact me for any pics, your thoughts, or anything else….
Thanks in advance,
Al

I guess the other's are too much for this post. I'm happy to e-mail!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture10.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture10.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture09.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture09.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture08.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture08.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture007.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture007.jpg)


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture001.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture001.jpg)

Al G19
November 4, 2006, 10:17 PM
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture006.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture006.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture004.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture004.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture002.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture002.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/th_Picture005.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/rouge-1968/Turkey45%20Rip-Off/Picture005.jpg)

rick_reno
November 4, 2006, 11:21 PM
He's probably used to trading with some blind guy named Jesus...don't know what your bi-pod looked like, but those knives are not mint - unless they left the factory looking like crap.

PinnedAndRecessed
November 4, 2006, 11:41 PM
Yeah, you got burned. But you're not going to get any satisfaction out of the deal.

Fleabay the stuff you got. Get what you can. Chalk it up to experience.

This statement......

hey my friend,,i did not have a chance to get the picture,,but trust me my friend the knife is near mint,,no pitting or nothing,,if want to swap we will...hey i dont have to see the bi-pod..you trust me..i will trust you

.......should have sounded an alarm.

Reminds me when Heather McCartney and Paul got married. She said, "Paul, we don't need a prenup. Trust me."

Al G19
November 4, 2006, 11:50 PM
I don't expect to get my item back, I would just like to people to know how this guy describes stuff, and his way of conducting a "Fair" trade. :barf:

Al G19
November 4, 2006, 11:52 PM
Rick,
This part I don't understand:
He's probably used to trading with some blind guy named Jesus...

Mighty Hd
November 4, 2006, 11:56 PM
I don't post here much but WOW that sounded really shady. :eek: "Trust me, I trust you, we all trust everyone right, my friend? Right? "

Kinda reminds me of this

http://www.thelegendofmax.com/uploads/MTG/TLOM/FreeCandy-LOM.jpg

hoghunting
November 5, 2006, 01:17 AM
I agree, you got screwed - but...

one request from you,,do you believe in JESUS ..if not seek him while he maybe found,,,love you...God Bless You,,and yours...thanks michael,and wilma..


... he was such a good Christian that he only wanted to screw you a little, so he threw in the extra piece of crap.

rick_reno
November 5, 2006, 02:52 AM
Rick,
This part I don't understand:
He's probably used to trading with some blind guy named Jesus...

Hoghunting pretty well covered it...

Tim Burke
November 5, 2006, 09:09 AM
Not mint.
Not close.
Not honest.

contender6030
November 5, 2006, 10:50 AM
Don't like taking sides on stuff like this (who am I kidding:D )
Al G19 you got the shaft, it's partially Turkey's:D fault but it's 50% your fault.
I don't trade anything much more than Dumb Dumbs (lolypops) sight unseen. You should have held out for a pic.
Ever hear of this one???Caveat Emptor it is Latin for "let the Buyer Beware"
Post it in the feedback forum (Oh that's what this is). Chalk it up to "know better next time"

10 MickeyMouse
November 5, 2006, 04:08 PM
While I agree that misrepresenting an item as "near mint" when it is obviously quite worn or damaged is shady:

1) Trading sight-unseen is a recipe for disappointment.

2) We are talking about small potatos here. You traded a ~$40-$50 item for a couple things with a total value of maybe ~$25-$35. So you're out ~$20, big deal.

As for griping about the smoke smell; it will dissipate. It's not like he went into your house and lit up.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that this is not worth getting hung up on. If this is the worst that ever happens in your online dealings, be thankful. Many folks have sent payment for hundreds or even thousands of dollars and had to jump through endless hoops to get the product they paid for. Some never get it.

hoghunting
November 5, 2006, 08:07 PM
10 MickeyMouse,

You would normally be right as it is not worth getting hung up on. But this in not one of those times. Most of Turkey45's posts on this forum are to buy and sell from forum members. Here's a look at the threads he has started:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=108028

Members need to know how he operates so no one else gets screwed.

geneinnc
November 5, 2006, 08:19 PM
You got ripped off. But you were ripe for the picking. NO PICTURE & NO REFERENCES. You aren't out that much compared to the normal gun trade.
I think these idiots that use the "Christian" pitch for to make a trade will answer for it one day. His "friend/buddy/pal" pitch was first grade bunko stuff to be honest. On anything over $20 I insist on their phone number and call them before the deal is done. I know it's sad that we can't trust everone.
As careful as I am I too will get burned before it's over.

It's over & done. Look at it this way. you got a first class ******* out of your life forever, for the cost of a Bipod.

Gene

VUPDblue
November 5, 2006, 09:44 PM
I make it a point to never trade with anyone who has less of a handle on the English language than W.:D

Al G19
November 6, 2006, 02:00 AM
Thanks for all of the replys.

I know, I know....It's the old thing where, you've done a lot of deals and have never had a single problem.

I agree, that I'll just chalk it up to experience and move on. I was/am more concerned with letting other's know how this guy conducts himself. I think most everyone on any gun forum are good guys and like I've said I have had nothing but good dealings. I guess we've all gotta get bit once to learn once and for all that not all dog's are nice!;)

As for this mike dude, I was just told by the moderators he was banned for some other thing he did that was un-related. Hopefully, at least on this forum he won't be able to screw other's over.

Well,.........Now that that's done................On With the Show!:D

UniversalFrost
November 6, 2006, 02:53 PM
but those knives are not mint - unless they left the factory looking like crap. Almost fell out of my chair laughing. LoL!!!

Sound like you got the stinky end of the stick on this deal. Loved how he said that the HARRIS bipod was worth 30 bucks. Heck I would love to pick up a decent condition Harris for 30 bucks, even the rock ridge copies are selling used over that price. Basicly he off loaded some junk on you for a good bipod. Maybe you can clean up the knife a bit and sell it on ebay or gunbroker and get some money back from the deal.

slinkster111
November 6, 2006, 11:31 PM
Agreed you were taken. The forum is built on trust and Turkey45 has taken alittle from all the members in that regard. Thanks Turkey45.

[Edited by Capt Charlie for inappropriate language]

Hedley
November 7, 2006, 02:49 PM
I make it a point to never trade with anyone who has less of a handle on the English language than W.
Sadly, that's my number one rule in online trading.

RevoRick
November 7, 2006, 09:52 PM
Turkey45 has posted up in the tech suggestions section asking the mods to "stop the abuse" of his good name, claiming unfounded harassment. Of all the nerve. To misrepresent and cheat someone and then whine to the mods.:barf:

SOSARMS
November 8, 2006, 07:04 AM
He'll prob just change his name to DUCK 45 and come back with a squeaky clean intro.....:barf:

robertbank
November 8, 2006, 10:54 AM
All a man really has in this world that lives forever is his good name - pity some sell it so cheaply.

Take Care

Bob

Double Naught Spy
November 8, 2006, 11:01 AM
What I don't understand, Al G19, is why you had to ask for opinions about being ripped off in the deal. It is a no-brainer.

Rimrod
November 8, 2006, 07:16 PM
You might want to remember this line in the future.

TexiCali Slim
November 12, 2006, 12:35 PM
Maeybe u shudent mayke deels wif peeepole that tipe like 5 yeer oldz:rolleyes:

cplane
November 19, 2006, 10:32 AM
In hind site, You allready know--Live and learn. I'm sorry it happened to you.Thanks for the warning on this guy. I'm sure you have saved someone else from dealing with him. To move forward , I would get some 600 grit sandpaper and clean those scratches off of the knife, Put a good edge on it, and use it for a beater. The blade looks full, The handle looks tight and in decent shape. It would be a good "Truck knife" or Camper blade. I know if you are like me, You will probabably remember the bad deal everytime you use it, But, Somewhere down the line, Someone will see it and appreciate the sturdy knife for what it is, and you can trade it off for something you like better. As for the other small piece of chinese crap blade, I'd give it away to someone that doesn't know a good knife from a butter knife. I'm glad the Dufus got banned here. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

WIN71
December 25, 2006, 11:41 PM
I think cplane has the right idea. First off this knife is not as advertised. It does look like it has some years behind it. Whether or not it was in the Vietnam war is of no consequence. Some of these older knives had some fairly good high carbon steel in them. High carbon steel rusts and tarnishes easily so the cosmetic look would be about right. Someone familiar with tool sharpening on carborundum, natural or diamond stones should be able to tell right away if the steel is any good. Aside from the looks, if this is good steel you may have even come out ahead on this deal.

tjhands
December 27, 2006, 04:13 PM
Wow, I'm coming in late on this one, but........just wow. :mad:

Yeah, I know it wasn't some major, high-dollar trade, but if it'd been me I'd be just as ticked off as you are.
You went out of your way and included free postcards, too (you know, cuz the Missus 'once' some)!! Grrrr.
We all know that there are liars and thieves in the world, but it really does shake one's faith in and love of his fellow man to personally get into a deal like this one.
I guess the best thing to do is to pity and forgive this joker. If this is how he lives his life, he can't be too pleased with himself when he lays his head on the pillow each night.

BTW, he needs to review the basic tenets of Christianity, too. :rolleyes:

billdeserthills
December 29, 2006, 01:36 AM
No Question about it, you were ripped off, I'd be ****** off too if it happened to me, but it does happen from time to time. Actually since I'm a small business owner, I feel like I have to give people some trust (chance to screw me) from time to time.