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View Full Version : Leaving the scene of a SD shooting before police come?


C Philip
October 30, 2006, 03:11 PM
What would you do if you had just shot a bad guy in self defense, but you still fear for your life because:

a) You’re in a bad area and fear that the gun shot will attract some undesirable company.
b) You think he may have been in a gang or had some buddies in the area who might come attack you.

Normally you’d call the police and wait there, but what if you think staying at the scene would endanger your life? Fleeing the scene of the "crime" (I say "crime" because it isn't a crime but a justified use of lethal force.) would look very bad to police and the court, but I also wouldn’t want to sit on the sidewalk with a dead body next to me of someone who is dressed like they are in a gang. (I am not by any means trying to be prejudice against the way people dress, but there are some tell tale signs that people may be in a gang such as colors they wear and tattoos, etc.) Even if they are dressed normally they might have some buddies in the area that would attack you. What should you do?

I think that in a situation like this, if it’s immediately apparent that your life is still in danger from multiple attackers that you can attempt to flee the area and call police while on the run in your car or on foot. Even so, you just left the scene of the "crime"... I’m really stumped by this one, any thoughts on a situation like this?

mete
October 30, 2006, 03:20 PM
Your safety comes first .Leave the scene then from a safe place immediately call police.

CDH
October 30, 2006, 03:23 PM
Your safety comes first .Leave the scene then from a safe place immediately call police.

+1

Carter

tomh1426
October 30, 2006, 03:30 PM
It really depends alot on the situation , if possible Id try and sit in my car (doors locked and running) call 911 and reload if needed

Para Bellum
October 30, 2006, 03:36 PM
leave the scene, call the police as you do and ask the where the next police station is to directly go to. Save yourself but don't make yourself a suspect.

sit in my car (doors locked and running) call 911 and reload if needed
you're a perfect target in your standing car. get moving.

Double Naught Spy
October 30, 2006, 04:46 PM
Normally you’d call the police and wait there, but what if you think staying at the scene would endanger your life?

It is a bad idea to remain where you feel in danger. It is equally bad to not have a cell phone with which to call 911 and let the police know exactly why you are leaving the scene and where you are going as witnesses at the scene will claim you were 'fleeing' the scene.

DonR101395
October 30, 2006, 04:52 PM
Like others have said, call the police while leaving, ask for directions to the nearest police station or ask for an LEO to meet you someplace you can describe to the 911 operator if you're not familiar with the area i.e BP gas station on 1st street.

Edison Carter
October 30, 2006, 05:04 PM
I might risk intervention by unknowns, in order to frisk the dead attacker and secure his weapon.

A crowd will gather, and I guarantee, his gun or knife will vanish before the cops show up.

Good luck with convincing anybody that he was an armed attacker THEN.

EC

Wildalaska
October 30, 2006, 05:28 PM
You leave, you'll get indicted, plain and simple. Why would you be in a "bad" area anyway?

WildcuriousAlaska

hot sauce
October 30, 2006, 06:36 PM
Dont forget to pick up your brass!:D

threegun
October 30, 2006, 06:52 PM
Stay with the body. If an unfriendly crowd gathers and threatens you place your gun barrel on the leaders head and repeat the classic Tombstone line......"your friends might get me in a rush but not before I make your head into a canoe".

Dwight55
October 30, 2006, 07:14 PM
I don't know about any place else, . . . but here in central Ohio, . . . a shooting draws police better than a PBJ draws honeybees. You would not be more than 3 to 5 minutes from an officer once the airwaves are bouncing the shooting around.

Wildalaska has the right idea there, too, . . . you leave, . . . you're in deep doo doo, . . . mucho quicko.

Most bad dudes see another one down, . . . they're all to happy to vacate the premises and let you take the fall for the hit. Less competition that way.

Also, . . . the crime scene now belongs to you, . . . it is the ticket to your personal freedom for the rest of your life. You better be securing that place, and I can't stress that enough. Somebody comes down there wanting to mess with my crime scene, . . . there just may be two crime scenes to have to watch.:eek:

May God bless,
Dwght

DonR101395
October 30, 2006, 07:21 PM
You leave, you'll get indicted, plain and simple. Why would you be in a "bad" area anyway?

Not so plain and simple. If you're on the phone with the police articulating your situation I don't see it as open and shut. My wife with 10 years leo background doesn't see it as open and shut, the 5 deputies sitting in my living room don't see it as open and shut. They all agree that it would be handled on a case by case basis, and provided you called and didn't have to be tracked down it wouldn't be an issue. Quite the opposite, you took care of a threat by the means available to you and then were able to get yourself out of the area before you were required to use more gun play just to stay and wait for a cop to come take a report and do the interviews. That's not to say it wouldn't cost you some legal fees, but if you shoot it's going to cost you some legal fees.
I had a situation about two years ago (no guns involved) where a young lady about 19 hit a homeless guy on a bicycle. She stopped and he threatened her with physical harm, for about 5 minutes he screamed what he was going to do to her, what his buddies were going to do to her etc., she was scared and left the scene. About 10 minutes later the cops show up and this guy gives them a line of bs about what happened, when the cop was done interviewing him and he left, I told the cop what happened and that she left because he was threatening her and scared the hell out of her. His attitude changed all of the sudden from searching for a hit and run driver to searching for a scared girl who hit an ahole. The guy wasn't hurt, he declined medical care, he was just looking for a paycheck.
Some will flame me for not stepping in sooner, but I didn't see a need to step in, he hadn't done anything other than yell and run at her car a few times, I was close enough (20 yards away) that I could see, hear clearly without escalating the situation unless it needed to be, I called a buddy and gave him a play by play of what was going on, where it was at, and instuctions to call 911 if it escalated and I was unable to call. The entire event took about an hour of my time and saved some scared kid the hassle of a court trial for hit and run. Her only mistake was not calling herself, I guess she was lucky that someone (me) was willing to get involved.

jcoiii
October 30, 2006, 08:48 PM
I would imagine if you could spell out why you still felt in danger, and you proceded directly to law enforcement personnel, you'd be ok.

brickeyee
October 30, 2006, 08:56 PM
You will make your defense many times harder.
There is a presumption in the law that an innocent man will stand his ground and not flee.
While you may be able to claim circumstances you have added one more issue to what may become a legal battle.
Do everything you can to remain at the scene.
If you are truly in danger you need to move to a safe location, but be aware that it WILL look bad in the courtroom.

James K
October 30, 2006, 09:06 PM
I agree that if you feel you are in danger, you should leave if you can.

But this is a situation where you should call the police first and your lawyer second. If you carry a gun and don't have a lawyer on retainer, you are stupid and deserve what you get. That lawyer is a lot more important to you than all the BS about your gun, your ammo, and so on.

And if you depend on sites like this for legal advice, you won't have to worry about your gun because you may never be allowed to have one again.

Jim

teejhot.40cal
October 30, 2006, 09:12 PM
My reason for using SD is that I can't escape. I don't want to be there at all. If I shoot someone, it is because they were standing between me and my safety. I will almost (i say almost because I am not giving my gun up) do anything and a give them anything to get away from. No ones life is worth the money in my wallet. If I shoot someone and I feel my life is still in danger. I am going to leave the scene, drive straight to the nearest police station and turn myself in. If I find an LEO on the way, fine I'll turn myself into him. Then the first words out of my mouth will be I want my attorney.

Hook686
October 31, 2006, 02:01 AM
teejhot.40cal posted:


My reason for using SD is that I can't escape. I don't want to be there at all. If I shoot someone, it is because they were standing between me and my safety. I will almost (i say almost because I am not giving my gun up) do anything and a give them anything to get away from. No ones life is worth the money in my wallet. If I shoot someone and I feel my life is still in danger. I am going to leave the scene, drive straight to the nearest police station and turn myself in. If I find an LEO on the way, fine I'll turn myself into him. Then the first words out of my mouth will be I want my attorney.

If the district attorney adopts the position that you are just one of those gun toting macho nuts that carry a gun, with those deadly hollow points, just looking for a chance to play Rambo, or wannabeacop ... that you shot a citizen out of fear ... fear of shadows ... and then ran from the scene ... and you only contacted the police department after having a few minutes to think about what you just did ... and maybe even talked to someone, who advised you, that you ought not have left the scene .... What then ?

teejhot.40cal
October 31, 2006, 02:21 AM
Hook, how are you coming to that conclusion!!! If I HAVE to SHOOT someone, It is because I HAD TO SHOOT THEM! There is no alternative, there is no rambo citizen cop idea. I had to do it for my safety and that of my family. I feel that you shouldn't stand your ground. GET AWAY!!! If it means giving them everything give it to them. Nothing I own is worth a life no matter who's life it is. Second of all, nine times out of ten I am on the phone with 911 before I pull the trigger. The operator will hear shots and then I will tell them where I am and hopefully police are en route. If it isn't safe to be there, what in your right mind tells you to stay. Third, you shouldn't say anything until you consult with your attorney. Many self-defense pleas are ruined because of it. Hook, can I ask what training you have had to lead you to these conclusions?

paramedic70002
October 31, 2006, 07:22 AM
"Dont forget to pick up your brass!"

One of the few good reasons to pack a revolver...

Always have a cell phone, that way you can call it in while fleeing.

Double Naught Spy
October 31, 2006, 07:45 AM
You leave, you'll get indicted, plain and simple.

This may be true, but seems to be promoting the "I am more afraid of being in jail than being killed outright while still on the street" irrational fear. What makes it irrational is the idea of giving more concern to what potentially will happen to you later in the legal system versus what might happen to you in the immediate future of the next couple of minutes. As it has been said before, more people get out of jail under their own power than get out of the morgue under their own power. Heck, you may be indicted anyway as a matter of procedure until the cops work out things.

I might risk intervention by unknowns, in order to frisk the dead attacker and secure his weapon.

Right, you are in fear for your life from others in the area (as noted in the original post) and so you are going to risk your life via those people by taking the time to frisk the dead attacker and secure his weapon? You are going to risk coming in contact with HIV infected blood to secure his weapon?

Of course while you are securing the gun, witnesses are claiming that you are robbing the guy, planting the gun on the guy, etc.

I don't know about any place else, . . . but here in central Ohio, . . . a shooting draws police better than a PBJ draws honeybees. You would not be more than 3 to 5 minutes from an officer once the airwaves are bouncing the shooting around.

So if I am in a shooting in central Ohio, I just need to make sure I carry enough ammo on my person to sustain a potential fight for 3-5 minutes, the amount of time AFTER somebody reports the shooting? 3-5 minutes is a long time to be in a place where you feel your life is in danger.

2400
October 31, 2006, 10:17 AM
I don't know about any place else, . . . but here in central Ohio, . . . a shooting draws police better than a PBJ draws honeybees. You would not be more than 3 to 5 minutes from an officer once the airwaves are bouncing the shooting around.

Also, . . . the crime scene now belongs to you, . . . it is the ticket to your personal freedom for the rest of your life. You better be securing that place, and I can't stress that enough.

Not everyone lives in or near a city with fairly good responce time. Remember that 3-5 minutes is a lifetime when your adrenaline is way up and there may or may not be more "bad guys" around.

Other than leaving everything were it is or fell what do you suggest that someone do in "securing the scene"?

Guntalk
October 31, 2006, 10:21 AM
Generally speaking . . .

Flight = guilt.

But, as always . . .

It all depends. <grin>

Samurai
October 31, 2006, 11:02 AM
I don't think you would have anything to worry about with leaving the scene. In fact, it seems like the logical and reasonable thing to do.

As a general rule, leave and go straight to the police station. Carry a cell phone to call your lawyer. Or, if you don't have a cell phone, then call your lawyer from the police station. You shouldn't worry about indictment, unless your conduct is indictable. Nothing spells out "innocent" quite like running scared into a police station saying that you've just been "held up," and you need to file a report. Let the shooting come into the story AFTER you've spelled out the facts leading up to the shooting.

Now, it's a TERRIBLE idea to leave and go home. If you were in such need of police that you had to shoot somebody, then it's an AWFUL idea to leave and go anywhere OTHER than where the police are. Going home spells "guilty," and it spells "need to go hide the evidence." But, as a general rule, after you've shot somebody, GET OUT OF THERE and go find some cops.

p.s. - I just read the post about "securing the scene." Remember, you are NOT A COP. It's NOT YOUR JOB to secure the scene of a crime! Your "ticket to freedom" is NOT the crime scene, it's the fact that you did nothing wrong!

Behaving like that will get you labeled as a vigilante. Do NOT stick around to "secure the area." SURVIVE and ESCAPE at all costs! Then, let the police do their job. Remember, the police are only looking for evidence to convict somebody. If they get there and all the evidence is gone, then yours is the only story that survives. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" means that if there's no evidence that what you're saying is false, then you go free. If the police can locate a witness, then they'll hear the story as the witness wants to tell it. If they can't, then your story must be taken as hard truth.

isa268
October 31, 2006, 11:07 AM
i can see both sides of this situation.

you stay and you might get shot by the BG's friends. you leave and an overzealous DA might prosecute. i guess it goes back to "i'd rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6".

i guess its also a good argument for BUGs and reloads. if you reload you can take cover, and stay close to the scene if more BG's show up before the calvary then you can defend yourself till guys with real guns (ie rifles) show up.

if i really felt like more BG's would show up before the calvary arrived i guess id run for cover CLOSE BY. and tell the cops what you are doing so it doesn't look like you are leaving the scene. but like others have said once the other BG's see their friend go down they are going to do the 100yrd dash.

that's just my 0.02.

choover
October 31, 2006, 12:26 PM
In all reality not to many people are going to run towards you or come to attack you after you just showed that you are armed and willing to use it. With a shooting the police will be there in a matter of a few minutes, I doubt that you will be in much danger standing there with a smoking gun for that long.

Opps, just make sure it's a .45, they may continue to come if all you have is a 9mm :D

Hook686
November 1, 2006, 01:43 PM
teejhot.40cal wrote:

Hook, how are you coming to that conclusion!!! If I HAVE to SHOOT someone, It is because I HAD TO SHOOT THEM! There is no alternative, there is no rambo citizen cop idea. I had to do it for my safety and that of my family. I feel that you shouldn't stand your ground. GET AWAY!!! If it means giving them everything give it to them. Nothing I own is worth a life no matter who's life it is. Second of all, nine times out of ten I am on the phone with 911 before I pull the trigger. The operator will hear shots and then I will tell them where I am and hopefully police are en route. If it isn't safe to be there, what in your right mind tells you to stay. Third, you shouldn't say anything until you consult with your attorney. Many self-defense pleas are ruined because of it. Hook, can I ask what training you have had to lead you to these conclusions?
__________________

I postulated no conclusions ... I understand that you may know what you were thinking and doing, but certainly the District Attorney does not, as I do not. I was playing an 'anti-gun DA'. If he adopts a negative posture and chooses to push it, how do you prove you were justified, you only have your word for it ? My observations in court situations is that that may not be good enough. A few anti-gun citizens on the jury, and where does that leave you ?

The training I've had ? ... 60 years, as a citizen, taking CCW classes from a former county district attorney. I find the public sector more often, than less often, adopts the negative scenario. I am a retired engineer, from the Army Corps of Engineers ... I saw the 'adopt the negative view', when dealing with contractors, that installed a product less than desired by the using service time and time again. It was fairly easy to develop a negative file, simply because the contractor wanted additional money to make a change. Adopting a negative scenario is not difficult, and if you are not given 'innocent until proven guilty', you are 'guilty, until proven innocent'.

How often have you seen 'innocent until proven guilty' in todays world ?

SixForSure
November 1, 2006, 02:15 PM
You leave, you'll get indicted, plain and simple. Why would you be in a "bad" area anyway?The argument could also be made that you stuck around because you were looking for more trouble. It think, in the immortal words of Ricky Ricardo, "You got some 'splainin to do" either way.

wayneinFL
November 5, 2006, 02:07 AM
"You leave, you'll get indicted, plain and simple. Why would you be in a "bad" area anyway? "

There are plenty of legitimate, even compelling, reasons to be in a bad area.

I remember a traffic accident I was nearly involved in. A tractor trailer rig with an empty trailer was tailgating me. As I slowed to make my turn he hit his brakes, jacknifed, and ran off the road across oncoming traffic. I offered help, then left to call 911. When I returned he was already working witnesses, saying things like "Did you see that guy in the red car who ran me off the road?"

So if you leave, expect the story to change while you're gone. Expect that evidence may be tampered with. You left because you were scared. It will be up to you and your lawyer to show you were scared of more bad guys, not scared of prosecution.

Be that as it may, I'd rather leave than be killed, for obvious reasons. I'd rather leave than have to shoot another attacker- I can't see that helping you out in court. If I determined that I had to leave I'd be on the phone immediately to let them know I'm the good guy.

KingofAttendance
November 5, 2006, 02:40 AM
look around for witnesses/cameras. none? leave. if the police for some reason come to question you, just tell them what happened

more than 99% of all crimes go unsolved

tlm225
November 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
look around for witnesses/cameras. none? leave. if the police for some reason come to question you, just tell them what happened

more than 99% of all crimes go unsolved

Now THAT will really boost your credibility. 5 Days after the shooting the police finally track you down because of the one witness you didn't see. Yeah, we're going to believe every thing you say after you failed to promptly report it. Oh, BTW let me introduce you to your cellmates....

Sucks to be that one percent of "solved" crimes.

OneInTheChamber
November 5, 2006, 05:23 PM
KingofAttendance; that will get your name changed to "KingofDetention". By saying what you just did, you portray a negative light onto the entire ccw'ing community. You speak for yourself; for we will not tolerate that kind of lawless banter.

marlboroman84
November 5, 2006, 05:37 PM
You speak for yourself; for we will not tolerate that kind of lawless banter.


+1 to Oneinthechamber.

King perhaps in the future you will think first and post later. That is a very irresponsible thing to say and definitely does not reflect the attitude of, I'd venture to guess 99% of the CCW community.:mad:

Capt Charlie
November 5, 2006, 06:03 PM
You speak for yourself; for we will not tolerate that kind of lawless banter.
A word to the wise, KOA, "we" includes TFL staff ;) ,

And a thanks to those TFL members that stuck to the High Road :cool: .

Jager1
November 5, 2006, 09:53 PM
Try to have one of your best friends serving on the grand jury. ;)

KingofAttendance
November 7, 2006, 02:40 PM
High Road? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When did the high road include everybody ganging up on someone for their opinion?

You speak for yourself

no duh?


If something as extreme and unlikely as me murdering someone out of fear of what they would do to me actually happened one day, I would leave. I'd be scared ****less and I'd run home and probably throw up. There's no way in hell I'd just sit down next to this dead or dying person and call the police, not in a city. You never know what the jury will think. Noone would ever know and they wouldn't need to, it's mine and my victim's business and ours alone. This is how disputes were settled for thousands of years, and unless you belong to a "progressive" party you shouldn't try to change it. It's just human nature. You asked for my opinion and you got it, don't pretend otherwise.

OuTcAsT
November 7, 2006, 03:38 PM
If something as extreme and unlikely as me murdering someone


There is just so much wrong with your "Opinion" I don't know where to start.

The discussion at hand is about a Justifiable Self defense shooting, If you think of that as murder then you really are on the wrong forum. I call Troll on this one:eek:

In before the lock:D

KingofAttendance
November 7, 2006, 03:59 PM
Justifable or not, I'm still hypothetically ending someone's life; and I will be different after it.

bobhwry
November 7, 2006, 05:01 PM
If not justified, your life will definitely change!! You will be in prison!! Hypothetically???

OneInTheChamber
November 7, 2006, 08:06 PM
When did the high road include everybody ganging up on someone for their opinion?


When one expresses any opinion that ludicrous and immature; it's bound to happen :rolleyes: I'm going to give you some good advice here: Don't come here and advise an action that is illegal and morally wrong. It will not go over well; and you will be "ganged up on" because of it. As I said before, we don't tolerate that kind of nonsense.

You only flee the scene if your life is still in immediate danger. And you don't go home; you go to the nearest PD station or uniformed LEO.

You will be very different after ending someone's life; even if it was justifiable. If you choose to take your advice and flee (and not notify the police), your life will really change. Before (not if) you are caught, you will always be looking over your shoulder. And when you are caught, that felony conviction will forever change you (and for a good part of your life imprison you).

OuTcAsT
November 7, 2006, 08:25 PM
Justifable or not, I'm still hypothetically ending someone's life; and I will be different after it

If you end someones life, whether it be in a justifiable self defense situation, on a battlefield, or even in a car accident, it will most certainly change the person you are.

If you are in a defensive shooting incident you will probably have no choice it is either your life or his.
If you are a uniformed combatant you will be faced with the same choice. No one is debating that issue here.

But your advice is at the least irresponsible, and at worst illegal.
If you own any firearms for defensive purposes (which I doubt) Please sell them, destroy them, take them to a buyback, or trade them for something that will benefit you more. if you own a weapon and lack the training,discipline, and plain common sense to know better than to follow your own advice then you don't need to be anywhere near a firearm. thats MY $.02:barf:

tlm225
November 7, 2006, 09:54 PM
KingofAttendance wrote:

Noone would ever know and they wouldn't need to, it's mine and my victim's business and ours alone.

You sir, are either a troll or a fool. In case you forgot, TFL has the principle of responsible firearms ownership. By your posts you do not appear capable of grasping that concept. While I sometimes disagree with the views of others, your is the first to disgust me.

Capt Charlie
November 7, 2006, 09:56 PM
OK folks, cease fire! ;) There's some good material in this thread. Let's get back to that, please?

Blackwater OPS
November 8, 2006, 03:43 AM
Dont forget to pick up your brass!

No need, I make sure I don't leave prints when I load carry mags, just in case... Besides, all my handguns fell off the boat on the last fishing trip I took...

Look, I live in East Los Angeles, I'm in the bad area because I'm a poor student and I live there. The local DA is on an anti gun rampage like you would not believe, I don't even think my veteran/quasi LE status would help me. I shoot a a criminal in self-defense and I might very well end up in jail. This despite the fact that I KNOW I have broken no laws. Hell, the DA might even know it.

So, it's not exactly "lawless banter" when I say I will take these things into account in the unfortunate circumstance that I am forced decide if I want to stick around after a shooting. In any case, it IS NOT illegal to leave the scene of a crime commited by someone else, even if they happen to be dead at that time... I know leaving makes me look guilty, but if I think my chances of staying out of jail are better if I leave, I would be a fool to stay.

OneInTheChamber
November 8, 2006, 09:19 AM
Just curious Blackwater, but do you have a carry permit or does the quasi LE status cover that?

Blackwater OPS
November 8, 2006, 01:18 PM
Just curious Blackwater, but do you have a carry permit or does the quasi LE status cover that?

Depends on who you ask...

Loucks
November 11, 2006, 05:45 AM
I've got to wonder just what "quasi-LE status" means. You enforce quasi-laws? ;)

Has anyone ever heard the line to the effect that a competent DA could convince a GJ to indict a ham sandwich? An indictment isn't the end of the world, it's the trial that really matters. (Assuming, of course, that one can afford a competent trial lawyer...)

As I recall, this very situation came up in Indianapolis a year or two ago. A pizza delivery driver was returning to his vehicle after making a delivery in a bad part of town when a BG approached him, displayed a pistol, and demanded money. The driver drew his own weapon and fired until his attacker went down (15 rounds, slide lock). He then drove back to the pizza place and called IPD to report the incident, explaining that he was concerned that the BG might have had backup. There was an investigation, and no charges were filed, although the driver did lose his job (due to a no-weapon provision in the company's policy).

Blackwater OPS
November 11, 2006, 11:03 PM
Just to clear it up, I work in federal law enforcement for the military, and I do reserve work (POST certified) in my state, but I am not a FT Sworn Civilian LEO. Hence, quasi-LE. And all the laws in this state are quasi laws;)

rick_reno
November 11, 2006, 11:49 PM
Why would you be in a "bad" area anyway?


More than once I've ended up in a "bad" area, I'm usually lost. Many urban/suburban areas turn bad pretty quick, a block or two can make a huge difference in how the places looks/feels.
If I'm not lost, then I'm probably trying to buy some crack, and it's never for sale in those gated neighborhoods. ;)

'75Scout
November 18, 2006, 05:43 PM
Call the police ASAP and explain the situation. Tell them you left because you thought you life was still in danger and they have your full cooperation. But I wouldn't leave unless I thought it was really unsafe. That makes you look suspecious.

Remember any evidence that proves your inocense or the BGs guilt could walk away if you leave the seen. You are there and you are armed, so stay there and keep an eye on the evidence that could keep you out of jail.

Wisby
November 24, 2006, 06:18 PM
Depends on how many bullets I have left and avaible cover.

hr636
November 25, 2006, 02:10 AM
I'm a delivery driver, and I can't get a CCW for another 1 1/2 years.


I can honestly say I have to put myself in a position to be robbed, attacked, and murdered on a daily basis, in close quarters where I'm easily subjected to ambushes and people lurking in dark corners knowing I will be at that location with at LEAST change for a 20 on me.

The only thing I can do with my pistol is carry it in the glovebox or trunk, with the trunk being where I would have to keep it on account of the necessity to leave doors and windows unlocked for convenience inbetween runs.

I feel like if I can get to my vehicle I'm safe enough to not need deadly force and I can use my vehicle to ram the BG if that situation arises. It would cost me my job if I was to be caught with any weapon lethal or less lethal (knife, pepper spray, taser) in my vehicle on the clock.

I am not a strong guy and I have no experience in hand to hand combat so I don't know what I could do to defend myself in the event of a burglary or attack. I have thought about buying a kevlar vest, but the only other thing I I can do is be smart and aware of my surroundings and if all else fails toss the delivery bags to one direction and run to the other til I find my way to safety.

locknid
November 25, 2006, 07:43 AM
From information I have gathered from various training classes and various information sources I would definitly stay at the scene. I live in PHX so police reasponse time is actually very good if you have an emergency. Usually withint a couple minutes. For one I would not frisk the suspect for a gun, for the most part the gun he had would have already been out when you shot him, thus being on the ground near the BG. I would first make sure the suspect is down. I would make sure he still wasn't trying to reach for a weapon, after that I would scan the surrounding area for other possible threats, I would keep my gun drawn and call the police, If there is someone else around I would have them call the police so I can keep my attention 100% on the situation. I would leave everything where it is and wait for the police. Once the police arrive I would lower my gun and stop scanning the area and the original BG for a possible threat. If you leave there is no telling what will happen to the scene of the incident. Like another poster said the gun can go missing, the body tampered with, the story changed by witnesses, etc. For the people saying that evidence is only used to find someone guilty I think is false. Your story mixed with the position of the perp, gun/knife/weapon on ground next to perp, your shell casings in the exact place they fell will help tremendously when a lawyer is trying to break you down in a civil case. Here in the state of AZ even if you are not criminally responsible you can and probably will be sued. The defense lawyer will use everything including you running away in order to get a win for his client. It is not necassary to "Secure the scene" but I would def make sure nothing got changed or went missing. I would also try and gather any reputable witnesses and have them stick around.

Also I find it very unlikely that there will be anymore attackers after the intial one. Even big tough thug BG's usually do not want to get shot and killed, and also for the most part once they see you are willing and able to protect yourself they will run because they don't want to get shot and they realize the cops are most likely on their way.

I just think that I would try my hardest not to leave the scene unless there were more attackers and I ran out of ammo and still being attacked. Flight usually does amount to guilt in our system, and I would not want anything to happen to the incident scene which could potentially land me in prison for many years. Remember depending on the state even if you don't go to prison you will get sued, also possibly ruining your life.

whitedemon89
November 28, 2006, 04:44 PM
it has happened before, a case very simialiar. man attacked with knife, bg shot, citizen leaves, cops show up, no more knife.
not can happen, does happen

Doug.38PR
November 28, 2006, 05:11 PM
get out of there and go to the nearest police station and tell them what happened

Double Naught Spy
November 28, 2006, 05:31 PM
Just off hand, do most folks have a clue to where the "nearest police station" really is, wherever they are at any given time, especially just after a shooting where they were in fear for their life?