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User14
October 10, 2006, 09:28 PM
I divide items into offense and defense. Offensive weapons are well discussed. What about your defensive strategy? I've looked into a decent IIIa or II concealed vest. Kevlar is popular, with Dyneema being offered more recently as well. Nanotechnology promises further breakthroughs in the coming years.

One thing that would be great is a motorcycle or bicycle helmet that also has some defensive capabilities against offensive weapons. Whatever I wear will match up with the offensive items I have on hand (spray, stun, knife, and gun).

marlboroman84
October 10, 2006, 09:34 PM
One thing that would be great is a motorcycle or bicycle helmet that also has some defensive capabilities against offensive weapons. Whatever I wear will match up with the offensive items I have on hand (spray, stun, knife, and gun).

I wouldn't say any of us here except LEOs have offensive" weapons as civilians can't really go on the offensive and be legal. It has to be in defense.
Pepper spray,stun gun,knife,and gun are all defensive tools. As far as body armor,helmets and such, most of it just isn't practical and body armor is illegal to own by civilians in some states I believe.

Welcome to TFL by the way.:)

User14
October 10, 2006, 09:43 PM
Body armor is only a problem if you have commited a violent felony. This is a federal law. US code 18 section 931 states that violent felons may not use body armor. Even then, it gives an exemption for work use.

State law may vary.

User14
October 10, 2006, 09:44 PM
I refer to items as offensive in that they can neutralize the threat. The defensive items allow one to be able to use the offensive weapons in order to neutralize the threat. They also allow one to continue living.

springmom
October 10, 2006, 10:21 PM
Ummmmm....no.

I do carry pepper spray. But my "defensive weaponry" is between my ears. I pay attention to what's around me. I use the alarm system in my house. I lock the doors to my car when I'm driving. My family and I have a standard greeting when entering the house. I had cell phones for my kids when the school said they couldn't have them, because if they'd needed to call for help I wanted them to be able to do it. And mine is always charged up.

You use your brains. Unless you live in Baghdad or Beirut, you don't need all that stuff you're asking about.

Springmom

User14
October 10, 2006, 10:37 PM
To keep the discussion tactical, imagine the situations. The mugger had pointed at your chest, which you know can take a caliber far greater than the one he has. He wants the usual. You are more than justified to neutralize this threat. What do you do?

springmom
October 10, 2006, 10:59 PM
What?????????

You know, a little time reading the archives might be a useful way to spend an hour or three here. I'd highly recommend it.

Springmom

marlboroman84
October 10, 2006, 11:04 PM
To keep the discussion tactical, imagine the situations. The mugger had pointed at your chest, which you know can take a caliber far greater than the one he has. He wants the usual. You are more than justified to neutralize this threat. What do you do?

I'm with Springmom. WHAT????

What is he pointing at you? I assume a gun since you said caliber, but the rest of your post makes no coherent sense.

What are you trying to accomplish with your thread here?:confused:

Ok I came back to add this after reading it and I think I see where you are going.
You're saying if you are wearing body armor and he has a .32 pointed at your chest how would you respond?

I would assume the same way you'd respond in any other shooting situation, but body armor only covers so much and he could always shoot you in the face.

Too many what if's and what to do's and not really enough content to it. Just FYI scenario threads don't last long around here. They have been hashed out to death and usually deteriorate into Rambo/Mall Ninja posts.

User14
October 10, 2006, 11:13 PM
I did not see a forum for defensive items, such as helmets and vests. To put it in a tactical situation, you consider a concealed vest. In this case, you can see how this changes the various tactical situations that you may have. Perhaps you have a concealed vest, but no offensive items. What if you get shot? Do you act dead?

Everyone knows that police officers are covered. When you conceal, you have a different tactical situation. I apologize if I have confused anyone. I do not mean the term "offensive" to disparage gun users. I intend to carry the approriate weapons to back up the defensive items.

User14
October 10, 2006, 11:32 PM
I think we are beyond pejoratives here. I am not a "mall ninja". I am also not a hunter. My interest in firearms are purely for self defense. There are same amazing advances in body armor. We will see comfortable bullet-resistant clothes before we ever see laser pistols.

With these items come tactical choices.

marlboroman84
October 10, 2006, 11:35 PM
Everyone knows that police officers are covered. When you conceal, you have a different tactical situation. I apologize if I have confused anyone. I do not mean the term "offensive" to disparage gun users. I intend to carry the approriate weapons to back up the defensive items.

I'm not gonna genralize over the enitre forum, but in MY experience, most people who carry concealed, don't carry alot of bells and whistles.

My normal carry is gun,holster,extra mag or two, and usually some sort of flashlight is on me or accessible. Pepper spray usually in a pocket or something and a knife. Just that listed is a lot to lug around unless you got the space and desire to, but in a pair of cargo pants it isn't that bad.

Carrying around a gun,taser,pepper spray,knife,and wearing a bulletproof vest is gonna bring up some odd things about you in court should you ever shoot someone in self-defense. That's alot of crap you don't need gumming up the works if you're not a LEO or some type of armed guard.

I'm not discounting the use and purchase of a bulletproof vest, but I think if I gotta carry all that stuff and wear a bulletproof vest I might be somewhere I really don't need to be anyway. I wore armor before, it's not comfortable and not really practical everyday use by a CCWer. Even the lighter stuff is still heavy and can be restrictive.

User14
October 11, 2006, 12:24 AM
Imagine wearing a vest, with no offensive (not in the bad way) items. Not out of some strange moral beliefs. Just because it may be tactically necessary. Some places may allow vests, but ban all offensive items.

That is a completely different situation, tactically. Suddenly, you have to think about playing dead. Even if you are armed, you may want them to think that first shot did you in. Most people don't shoot at seemingly dead bodies.

springmom
October 11, 2006, 08:44 AM
Imagine wearing a vest, with no offensive (not in the bad way) items. Not out of some strange moral beliefs. Just because it may be tactically necessary.

But WHY ON EARTH would you need to?????

Look, self defense is not wearing helmets and Kevlar. Police wear it because they are literally on the line every day. Every traffic stop may be their last. That's clear from the daily news.

We civilians don't live that way. We don't go out looking to intervene in trouble for the most part, we certainly don't pull cars over which may be driven by God knows who.

Nobody here wears Kevlar or helmets. We live our lives, we are alert, we prepare. Some of us have had more training than others, but all of us, except I believe in Vermont, have to have some sort of training in order to carry concealed. But Kevlar? Again, why on earth would you think you need this????

Go take a walk in the woods and enjoy the fall leaves. Relax. Living is not a tactical situation. It's living. Be alert, be aware, then enjoy your life and stop worrying about every little teeny tiny possiblity.

Springmom

CDH
October 11, 2006, 09:15 AM
My TOTAL "self-defense" arsenal consists of just three things:

First and most important, the information I got out of the book "The Gift of Fear" by DeBecker. It exhaustively studies and explains how the psyche of both the predator AND the potential victim (us) works.
I get the feeling that the author is basically "anti-gun", but if you take what he offers to heart and USE it, you will very rarely allow yourself to get into a situation that would require your use of a weapon for defense.

My Second item in my arsenal is a Spitfire pepper-spray on my key chain that is always in my left (off) hand when in areas of risk.
Ironically, I never carried pepper-spray before I got my CCW permit, but realized when I started carrying a pistol that I really would like to have some less lethal OPTION available to me.

My Third item in my arsenal is whatever pistol I choose to carry that day. Of course, it is hopefully my LAST choice for defense, but it does fit my basic philosophy (that it appears I share with Springmom) that "I will NOT be a victim".

Those things are exactly enough to "get the job" of self-defense "done", and I fear that going ANY further than those things will push me over the line to where I will have allowed societial crime to CHANGE the person who I am.
As important as it is to me to not be a victim, it is just important to not let the BG's win by dictating how I live any more than my simply having the basics to outwit and outgun them if need be.

If it takes a bullet proof vest and armor in my car doors etc. to survive in this society, then hell with it. Just let 'em kill me so I can go on with my next life and leave the rest of you to sort out the mess that Liberals have made of it. :eek:

Carter

springmom
October 11, 2006, 09:28 AM
If it takes a bullet proof vest and armor in my car doors etc. to survive in this society, then hell with it. Just let 'em kill me so I can go on with my next life and leave the rest of you to sort out the mess that Liberals have made of it.

Well said. Now, I'm going to go get into my tactical blue jeans and my Kevlar vest that looks like a butterfly tee shirt from the Houston Museum of Natural Science, and low-crawl over to the bank (which is 8 miles away, it'll take me awhile) to get Middle Son some money for his move.

Over and out. ;) :D

Springmom

mikejonestkd
October 11, 2006, 09:40 AM
Nice springmom and CDH,

I know a few people that seem to approach everything they do as a potentially tactical situation where they may have to rescue people from some madman at a shopping mall.

I would rather live everyday and enjoy the gift of life that we have been given, rather than think that there is a bad guy around every corner and live in fear.

I'm no fool, I know that there is a chance that something bad could happen but I'm not ready to put on kevlar just to go to the mailbox. If that day comes then I am off to Idaho, or perhaps montana...where I will see the bad guys coming from miles away though the scope of my rifle...

:D :D

User14
October 11, 2006, 09:44 AM
I take self-defense very literally. I value myself above everything else. I am in no way a hero. The vest is to defend myself, who I love more than anything.

CDH
October 11, 2006, 10:09 AM
I take self-defense very literally. I value myself above everything else. I am in no way a hero. The vest is to defend myself, who I love more than anything.

I value living in freedom more than living itself.
If I have to live in a cave of fear, then what is the point of living?

If you are really serious about "self-defense", then buy the book, man, buy the book. ("The Gift of Fear" by DeBecker).

Carter

FS2K
October 11, 2006, 10:12 AM
I do. But Walking around with a motorcycle helmet while wearing body armor isn't exacty en vouge if you get my drift. Until they start making t-shirts bullet proof I don't see myself investing too much into defense items as you put it. Why?

Because if you haven't realized it yet, your mugger scenerio is very unlikely to happen to you, and if it did, there's no way to know if you'd have your magic vest on at that time or not. What if you didn't? Would you just stand there and take one in the chest? My point is, whether equipt with 'defensive' gear or not, you will still have to take action against becoming a victim. I hate to tell you buddy, but the world isn't out to get you. Sure, society is pretty darn violent and all but no matter what you do to supposedly ensure your safety, there is always the X-factor to deal with. What's the "X-Factor" you ask? Things Happen. Maybe not in those exact words, but the meaning is still there.
If you want to walk around wearing full body armor and a motorcycle helmet as a precaution just in case you may find yourself in a life threatening situation, go for it. You clearly hold safety at the top of your list. I don't see you convincing anyone here of the need for the measures you have set for yourself though. My theory is simple: when your number comes up, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it anyway, no matter how well armored or 'safe' you may be at the time. Living with a mortal fear of death is no living at all, and the sooner you figure that out the happier you'll be.

mikejonestkd
October 11, 2006, 10:41 AM
>>>Living with a mortal fear of death is no living at all, and the sooner you figure that out the happier you'll be.

well said. Fear will eat you up alive, you might as well crawl in a cave...

FS14>>vest is to defend myself, who I love more than anything.

You are probably not a parent....

User14
October 11, 2006, 10:53 AM
T-shirt: http://www.interamer.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=307

User14
October 11, 2006, 10:59 AM
I am not a parent, and I am not a Christian. When my time comes near (multiple weapons aimed at the head), I will not pray. I do believe in reincarnation, so that will perhaps give me some comfort.

BamaXD
October 11, 2006, 11:05 AM
Are you expecting to have multiple weapons to be aimed at your head when your time comes? Just curious...since so many other things can kill you. -BamaXD

springmom
October 11, 2006, 11:08 AM
The vest is to defend myself, who I love more than anything.

Ew. :barf:

Well, may you and your vest be very happy together. Though I can't imagine how.

Springmom

shield20
October 11, 2006, 11:12 AM
When I left the force way back when I took my vest with me. It sat around for 10 years and I never felt the need to put it on. After a couple moves I ended up tossing it as uneeded baggage. Sometimes I wish I kept it 'just in case', but then I think 'just in case what???' And supposedly Kevlar deteriorates after a while anyway (which is why I had my own vest to begin with).

I do agree that while on duty wearing a vest gave me a bit more...confidence I guess...as I would have had no problem drawing against an already drawn weapon, figuring not only was I fast and accurate, but that if the BG did get one off and did get a hit, I had the vest to stop it. No way was I depending on his good nature not to execute me.

User14
October 11, 2006, 11:25 AM
"Are you expecting to have multiple weapons to be aimed at your head when your time comes? Just curious...since so many other things can kill you. -BamaXD"

Actually, I expect multiple bullets to be on the way to my head when the time comes :D .

BamaXD
October 11, 2006, 11:41 AM
So, if you are expecting multiple head shots, I have to ask, whats the point in spending the $400.00 for the vest? -BamaXD

mikejonestkd
October 11, 2006, 11:47 AM
BamaXD,

Nice!!!!!

Enough of this silly thread.....user14 is either a wack job or a gamer, or a spoofer or some prepubescent kid home sick from school.

User14
October 11, 2006, 11:51 AM
BamaXD, I was making the point that I realize that I will never make myself weapon-proof.

BamaXD
October 11, 2006, 11:55 AM
Well, its your money, and if thats what you want, then go for it. To each their own. -BamaXD

mikejonestkd
October 11, 2006, 11:56 AM
user14,

Good luck and get what you want.

User14
October 11, 2006, 12:03 PM
Thanks, guys. I will tell you what I find in the area of making myself weapon-resistant.

User14
October 11, 2006, 12:57 PM
Let me repeat what I have said in the other board. I intend to be made of engineered parts in the far future. I refuse to remain as vulnerable to weapons as I am now. A replacement of the entire body will be available at some point. This replacement will be much more resistant to weapons. From then, we replace parts of the brain.

tydephan
October 11, 2006, 01:55 PM
I think Mitsubishi makes those parts...

springmom
October 11, 2006, 01:58 PM
But Lego might!

Springmom

CDH
October 11, 2006, 02:36 PM
Let me repeat what I have said in the other board. I intend to be made of engineered parts in the far future. I refuse to remain as vulnerable to weapons as I am now. A replacement of the entire body will be available at some point. This replacement will be much more resistant to weapons. From then, we replace parts of the brain.

I think I have this young lad figured out...

I think we've been "played".

IN BEFORE THE LOCK :D

marlboroman84
October 11, 2006, 02:36 PM
Let me repeat what I have said in the other board. I intend to be made of engineered parts in the far future. I refuse to remain as vulnerable to weapons as I am now. A replacement of the entire body will be available at some point. This replacement will be much more resistant to weapons. From then, we replace parts of the brain.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This has got to be a joke? You're playing right? This is one of the older members having a chuckle please say it is please God say it is???

CDH
October 11, 2006, 02:50 PM
mikejonestkd said:
Enough of this silly thread.....user14 is either a wack job or a gamer, or a spoofer or some prepubescent kid home sick from school.

Sounds like a POLL to me!

I vote D: Prepubescent kid.

Carter

BamaXD
October 11, 2006, 02:55 PM
Once again, just curious, but what gun do you carry/have User14? Please don't say Desert Eagle point five oh. -BamaXD

springmom
October 11, 2006, 03:26 PM
Everybody sing along...

...."if I only had a brain....do do doddly do."

I think I hear a key turning in a LOCK......:rolleyes:

Springmom, who will keep her own software, hardware, wetware, and netware, thank you very much

Capt Charlie
October 11, 2006, 03:38 PM
I think I hear a key turning in a LOCK......
*click* ;)