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View Full Version : largest game that can be humanely taken with a 9mm carbine?


Freetacos
September 28, 2006, 03:00 PM
Is a deer about a large as you should go with a full house 9mm load?

mikejonestkd
September 28, 2006, 03:10 PM
I wouldn't even consider a 9mm as a potential deer round. there are 100's of better choices out there.

The .357 is marginal for deer and the 9mm is less powerful than the .357. You are looking at wounding a deer and having it die a slow death....

arizona hunter
September 28, 2006, 03:19 PM
Do you have anything larger???? If that is the only rifle you have you better limit your shots to bow range (like 30 yards) and the deer had better be on the small side.

Better yet, barrow something with suitable like a 30-30, .243, .270, .3006 etc.

rlong5
September 28, 2006, 03:22 PM
Groundhogs.

Scorch
September 28, 2006, 03:42 PM
I am not sure I would choose a 9mm for any game animal. It has just barely enough muzzle energy to pierce hide and penetrate to vitals. I suppose you could take a smallish deer, but that would have to be at point blank range.

And that does not even deal with the legality of using that cartridge for game animals. Or the ethical considerations.

Freetacos
September 28, 2006, 03:47 PM
I also have a 7.62x39 autoloader. I am not really much of a hunter, but I am curious about the limitations of these rounds in the hunting sphere.

FirstFreedom
September 28, 2006, 04:17 PM
coyote/beaver

Freetacos
September 28, 2006, 04:56 PM
coyote, bingo

Clayfish
September 28, 2006, 05:44 PM
coyote within 20 yards.

Bigfatts
September 28, 2006, 06:27 PM
Out of your choices? Use the 7.62, keep it close, use the best hunting ammo you can find, if you hand load even better, get lots of practice. I live in Florida where the deer aren't exactly monsters. Quite a few people in my circle of aquaintances use 7.62x39 for Whitetail (again, smallish Whitetail).

If you're looking to take larger game, go spend $90 or so and get an excellent condition Mosin Nagant M38. Good hunting ammo with plenty of oomph, good enough accuracy for hunting at reasonable distances, cheap, a blast to shoot. These are very popular in the area near here for pig/brush guns.

dave0520
September 28, 2006, 06:40 PM
If you use the 7.62x39, I'd say deer up to about 150 yards is reasonable if you can shoot that well. I wouldn't even consider the 9mm.

Fat White Boy
September 28, 2006, 11:32 PM
Usama bin Laden...

Benonymous
September 28, 2006, 11:33 PM
A canary.

rlong5
September 28, 2006, 11:55 PM
cockroaches?

oldbillthundercheif
September 29, 2006, 01:10 AM
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/zarganuts/duiker.jpg

Spur0701
October 2, 2006, 11:48 AM
I've taken a 200 lb russian boar with a 9mm carbine (147 grain Federal Hydrashok) with no problems.

john in jax
October 2, 2006, 02:34 PM
I've got a 9mm Ruger Police Carbine that shoots real well and:
a) on a calm day
b) deer standing still
c) +/- 40 yards
I think I could confidently make a head shot and drop a deer, but there are to many factors/variables that could prevent you from being able to get such a perfect shot.

Shooting +P+ hollow points at varmits such as coyote, raccons, armadillos, etc... at 50 yards or less should take them humanely.

And I agree with everyone above, the 7.62x39 is a much more powerful round and will outperform the 9mm as a hunting cartridge in every way. There are numerous hollow point and soft point hunting round choices available in 7.62x39.

FirstFreedom
October 2, 2006, 04:11 PM
Usama bin Laden...

I can dig it. Prefer to see him hit with a .50 bmg or a 2,000 lb bomb, but a 9mm is better than nothing, and should do the job. :)

billykaldrich
October 7, 2006, 07:25 AM
squirls,rabbits

rem33
October 7, 2006, 06:41 PM
9MM is not a hunting round and should not be used as one.
How bout ground squirrels you have them in Southern calif.

taylorce1
October 8, 2006, 09:14 PM
Check your State hunting regulations to find out if your 9mm carbine is legal or not. I'll bet that if your State has any kind of foot pound requirements for rifles your 9mm will fall short. My State requires 1000 ftlb of energy at 100 yards for rifles as a minimum, and I'm sure that a 9mm carbine is well under that requirment. I think you could have some fun using it on small game at close ranges but I wouldn't use it on deer.

springmom
October 8, 2006, 10:11 PM
You will have to check your state hunting regulations. Ethically, I'd say "possum, rabbit, skunk" but NO WAY would I shoot a deer with one.

Springmom

mikejonestkd
October 9, 2006, 07:54 AM
I find it interesting that no one considers the 9mm out of a carbine/ rifle a viable deer hunting round but have no problem using the same round out of a pistol for self defense against roughly the same sized critters....humans..

I'm not trying to start a caliber war but I also find it odd the when you mention the .223 at the tactical side of the range and they they think it's da bomb as a round.....when you mention it to a hunter they think of prairie poodles and wood chucks - 5 to 20 pound animals.....

:D :D :D :D

springmom
October 9, 2006, 08:54 AM
The scenarios (please excuse that word, couldn't think of a better, I haven't had my coffee yet) are different.

If I shoot a deer, he is trying not to be seen, and if he sees me, he's going to run. I have to shoot by utter stealth, and the ONE shot I make had better be fatal or else I run the risk of leaving a wounded deer to die of infection somewhere in the bush;

If I shoot a human, it is because he is trying to kill me. One shot needs to do the deed, all right; but if I need two or three, I'm not going to take those second or third shots while he's bounding away at 20 mph, like a deer would be.

So you're comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison would be using the 9 for a sniper rifle and using the 9 for hunting. I may be all wet, but I don't think ANY SWAT or sniper type folks use 9mms in their sniper rifles. If they are "hunting" a BG, they put something else in those rifles...something more like what we'd use for....DEER!

HTH.

(I like the 9mm for range shooting. I don't personally think it's "too little gun" for SD. I carry a .38spl a lot, and that IS essentially a 9, albeit with a VERY long case ;) But I want that deer down and dead ASAP for the sake of the animal, so I want to use a rifle cartridge, with higher energy and more damage done, than my 9. )

Springmom

mikejonestkd
October 9, 2006, 09:33 AM
Springmom,

I agreed with most of your assessment and opinion on the differences, IMO I would still be over gunned in a SD situation ( as long as I can handle and shoot it well ) and use just enough gun for hunting.

I do find it funny that a few friends tell me all about the magical properties of their round of choice ( say the 9mm or the .223 ) and the oldtimers and hunters look at them as woefully inadequate for most hunting situations.

FirstFreedom
October 9, 2006, 09:44 AM
springmom is right on. There IS a discrepancy, but the discrepancy can be explained by two factors, both relating to the difference in the nature of hunting versus self-defense....

1. First, in a self-defense scenario, the violent aggressor against whom one is justified in taking a shot at, is by definition (in order to be justified), coming directly at you, threatening you with some sort of violence. In this situation, 99% of the time, the threat is presented at close range, in full view. Easier target; easier to hit vital zone; less gun needed.

2. Perhaps even more importantly is the fact that with game, it RUNS when it gets hit, and you have to find it after only one hit (typically). The polar opposite of self-defense. In self-defense, the goal is to stop the attack, so if the target runs off, great; mission accomplished. No need to track and find the violent aggressor, necessarily. And, if the BG keeps coming, he presents himself to you for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or more shots. The more shots you get, the less a big gun is important because of the increased likelihood of a good hit, and cumulative effect of multiple hits. With game, it is critical that you find the animal in the wilderness from the blood trail created from just one hit. Which is very difficult to do potentially. Hence, a bigger gun is a necessity to (ideally) create an exit wound, for a better blood trail.

But, having said all that, there is a counterpoint which mikejones's question valid....that is that with a violent aggressor who is potentially about to kill you, a one-shot stop is far more important than a OSS is for a game animal which is not a threat to you. And all things being equal, the bigger the gun, the more likely you will get an OSS (roughly correlated). So, it can be argued both ways...

FirstFreedom
October 9, 2006, 09:46 AM
oops, double tap.

springmom
October 9, 2006, 10:23 AM
LOL. Isn't everyone's favorite round magical? You'd think so, from the caliber wars over on Hogan's Alley. :D


Springmom

Krull
October 9, 2006, 11:12 AM
While you could whack a deer with a 9MM it would be hard,your 7.62X39MM is just wonderful for a med-size deer gun.

As far as pistol rounds in a carbine for deer I'd suggest the .357 mag,load a 158 to 180gr bullet with the right make (i.e. softpoint) and your good to go.

castnblast
October 9, 2006, 11:25 AM
Oldbill, is that dik-dik antelope? That's a good 9mm choice if I ever saw one...

mikejonestkd
October 9, 2006, 03:10 PM
I would regard self defense against an armed assailant in a similar light to stopping a charging cape buffalo.....hit it well and hit with something big enough to turn it or stop it.

But thats for another link in another section on the firing line...

I would be comfortable with hunting with any reasonably effective round.
I would feel better if I was armed with a bazooka in a self defense situation.

I guess I am just tired of the tacticalcool guys telling me that the .223 or the 9mm is the best thing since sliced bread for anything that walks.

dave0520
October 9, 2006, 04:50 PM
Castnblast, I think it's a duiker.

Hello123
October 9, 2006, 05:40 PM
rabbit