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riverkeeper
September 9, 2006, 05:05 AM
Yea it's in the movies..'Collateral'.

It appears that unsighted '1/2 Hip' is used on the first guy and extended point on the second guy where the pistol is high in the field of view. The last shot on the second guy may be FSP or similar. The pros on the board may know for sure.

http://www.the-roberts.info/gallery/albums/GTFriends/collateral.mpg

Recall I read somewhere that Tommy Boy got to be pretty fair at this and managed the rounds in 1.05 sec tho I do not know how it was timed.

We practice this stuff with approx 10x16 inch 2 to 3 reactive hanging targets made of plywood or cardboard. We've gone up to 6 targets at times just for giggles. Any number of unsighted or sighting methods are used in one string. Fun Stuff.

mjrodney
September 9, 2006, 06:04 AM
Ficticious though it might be, it still serves to remind me why violent crime is reportedly down in many states that have concealed carry laws.

CDH
September 9, 2006, 07:02 AM
Ficticious, sure, but I'd still like to know what holster and pistol he used, especially the holster. :cool:

Carter

VeT|Us
September 9, 2006, 11:06 AM
If I recall correctly, its an USP.

hot sauce
September 9, 2006, 11:13 AM
I think it is a USP 45.

pickpocket
September 9, 2006, 11:52 AM
I rather like the "unsighted downward lateral" shot at the end of the clip :D

riverkeeper
September 9, 2006, 02:23 PM
"""I rather like the "unsighted downward lateral" shot""":eek:

That's one of my favorite shots in recent movies.;)

I'm assuming everyone knows Cruise was playing a hit man in the flick.

Esquire M Busterbury
September 9, 2006, 02:44 PM
What a great movie...And I hate Tom too. But how many of us here think they could react that smoothly in that situation? Like butta.

rhino
September 9, 2006, 02:55 PM
When it's in the script and we get to rehearse, plus have a good editor for post production?

Most of us! :D

foob
September 9, 2006, 05:35 PM
The video is cool.

Lucky for Tom he doesn't really need to aim though.

I thought it would be better to push the perp's hand to the left, but he pushed it to the right instead.

riverkeeper
September 9, 2006, 08:01 PM
The movie was good too (even with Cruise in it, Cruise is OK, Foxx is quite good).

Pushing-slapping-hitting the weapon across the other guy's (OG, they're both bad guys) body has a few advantages. Cruise correctly (IMO) used strength against weakness and maintained a centered body position to quickly nail the other guy too... but I ain't no ninja but do have some martial training.

1. Cruise's arm movement is much stronger and possibly faster when moving from outside to inside.
2. OG's arm is weaker resisting movement that way and slower to get back on target if he even retained the gun.
3. Slapped the other way, the gun wrist and/or elbow could be bent to get off a shot during or after the slap.
4. To take the OG's arm outside, he'd may've needed his gun hand which would slowed everthing down to the point where #2 finally would've gotten into play. His back would've been more toward #2.

Cruise aimed, he just didn't look at his sights.

Sweatnbullets
September 10, 2006, 04:01 PM
Yep, ficticious as all heck. The amount of time BG#2 spent holding his gun in his waistband turns an actually real life scenario into a real joke. At least make it look as if there was an attempt to get that gun into play.

Point shooting is nice and fast, but this clip is a very dangerous in portraying something that is next to impossible. Drawing from the drop is very tough against one adversary, but against two and with no movement.....that is a suicide drill 99 out of 100 times.

Entertainment value only, except in the case of a "one on one" parry, draw, and shoot at close contact (the #2.)

Esquire M Busterbury
September 10, 2006, 04:33 PM
I can see why he pushed BG#1's gun to the right, keeps him worrying about shooting his partner and keeps the partner worrying about being shot. Plus, BG#2 should have gotten a bobbed hammer or adjusted the tension screws on his holster...cuz it cost him!

matthew temkin
September 10, 2006, 10:21 PM
Another possibility..one that I learned from an interesting Russian vet in Poland..is to use the dead guy as a shield.
Food for thought.

leadbutt
September 11, 2006, 05:50 PM
At that stage in the flick he was still using the 1911 as I remember with an IWB rig, movement was well done, and the way it was staged showed how it should have ended..

Chris Phelps
September 11, 2006, 07:08 PM
At that stage in the flick he was still using the 1911 as I remember with an IWB rig, movement was well done, and the way it was staged showed how it should have ended..


Agreed totally.



But how many of us here think they could react that smoothly in that situation? Like butta.

Depends.... Would we have an extensive background in the Special Forces followed by a 6 year career as a contract killer? If so, Im sure all of us could react like that.



Yep, ficticious as all heck. The amount of time BG#2 spent holding his gun in his waistband turns an actually real life scenario into a real joke.

Not always. Most criminals who mug people have no intention of a shot ever being fired and could probably be run off by the victim screaming "BOO" at him. Statistics have proven this time and time again. For people of this type, the gun has no use past that of its 'intimidation', which it would have equally as well when being held at the side.


Ficticious though it might be, it still serves to remind me why violent crime is reportedly down in many states that have concealed carry laws.

Roger that!


Recall I read somewhere that Tommy Boy got to be pretty fair at this and managed the rounds in 1.05 sec tho I do not know how it was timed.

Yes sir... they brought in an ex SAS soldier to work with tom. The training lasted for 3 months, and tom was practicing with live ammo in a number of conditions on a number of targets. This particular scene, in fact, was done with live ammo on non-reactive targets. The scene in the club where he rolls over onto his back and fires at targets was also preformed as a live fire excersize at an earlier date.


You guys should rent the video and watch the 'behind the scenes' footage. The depth of training given to Tom in order to equip him for the roll was quite impressive, and not as unrealistic as some of you are making it out to be.



/ $0.02

pickpocket
September 11, 2006, 08:12 PM
Another possibility..one that I learned from an interesting Russian vet in Poland..is to use the dead guy as a shield.
Food for thought.

HA! I had a similar "drill" for CQB training that I would run my guys through; half tongue-in-cheeck, half not.

Mikeyboy
September 11, 2006, 09:36 PM
I actual got the DVD for my birthday and in the special features it showed that Cruise was trained by some SAS combat pistol expert. He praticed with live ammo. If it was your usual action hero and not Tom Cruise I would not have been overly impressed with the movie or this scene.

Hey Homie??? Come on now, how geekie can you get.

18DAI
September 11, 2006, 10:16 PM
The pistol he used in that scene, and through most of the movie, was an HK USP 45 full size. The guys over on HKPRO blew up some stills. The holster was an IWB Kydex IIRC. I don't remember the manufacturer. Regards 18DAI.

The Canuck
September 11, 2006, 10:52 PM
When he pushed the BG's hand to the right he risked getting himself shot Center Of Mass by the BG, agree?, If the BG had his pistol aligned COM on Tom, then it would have been the best thing to do, but from my POV it looks as if Tom dragged the BG's muzzle across his own torso. While the technique is valid in gun retention & hand-hand with firearm drills to push him so that you are to his outside afterwards, it is more important to keep his muzzle off of you. Of course the drills assume that the other guy knows to put his muzzle on your COM instead of waving the firearm around like an idiot. :o

hso
September 12, 2006, 11:34 AM
3. Slapped the other way, the gun wrist and/or elbow could be bent to get off a shot during or after the slap.

Yep

When he pushed the BG's hand to the right he risked getting himself shot Center Of Mass by the BG, agree?

No more so than if he pushed it the other way.

Looks like what was done pushed the BG arm off center in such a way that it couldn't fold back in to point the weapon bact at center while Cruize stepped back with the right side "blading" and moving himself slightly off line to further protect the center.