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tonerguy
September 8, 2006, 01:47 PM
“Don’t Bring a Gun to a Knifefight?”

Sure, you better bring a gun, bring a clear mind and the will to act so you don’t get cut.

Yes, I know. The old joke is about "don’t bring a knife to a gunfight."

This is no joke as you’ll see here: http://tinyurl.com/l8yk9 *WARNING* - Not for the squeamish.

atlctyslkr
September 8, 2006, 03:05 PM
I think this has been posted before but it's always good to refresh.

Samurai
September 8, 2006, 03:11 PM
Most people who have never seen the real damage a knife can do will simply fail to appreciate the Faustian bargain of pistol use. Namely, by "upgrading" your bladed weapon to a gun, you are actually making a trade.

When you carry a gun, you are actually trading lethality in exchange for range. Lethality due to blood loss is a function of the amount of tissue exposed through skin damage. To expose a given amont of tissue, one can either make a long, shallow cut, or one can make a small, deep puncture. Either one will bleed equally, provided the variables of depth vs length are balanced.

In gun-speak, this amounts to the permanent cavity left by the round through the soft tissue. In most instances, permanent cavity is, relatively speaking, not that large. The REAL damage with a gun occurs when a large bone mass is hit, such as the head, sternum, or hip bone, in which the fragments of shattering bone will increase the exit-wound tear. But, all in all, a gun makes a permanent cavity only slightly larger than the calibur of the bullet.

With blades, the sky's the limit on length of the cut. And, if the blade is sharp enough, the only limitations on depth of the cut are the strength of the user, and the fluidity of motion in making the cut. A well-trained samurai can slice a human being in half at the waist with one swing, in which case death occurs in a matter of seconds.

So, why use a gun? Why, RANGE, of course! Personally, I would MUCH rather be able to stay greater-than-arms-reach away from a BG while I inflicted damage to him/her. Swords and knives are DEADLY, but they require an up-close and personal approach.

Also, there's the issue of temporary cavity. This is a phenomenon that occurs when a fast-moving projectile impacts a water-based target (like a human body). Essentially, when soft tissue is shot, the water in the soft tissue acts like a wave, and a large splash-like cavity opens where the bullet hits. The elasticity of the soft tissue then pulls the body closed again, leaving only the small, bullet-hole shaped opening of the permanent cavity.

The temporary cavity is the source of most of the "knock-back" power of the round. If the temporary cavity impacts a bone (as will usually happen), then the bone will often break, causing pieces to move about and compound the damage of the permanent cavity.

So, in summary, we who use guns do so at the loss of the ability to "cleave our foes in twain," often resulting in the need for multiple shots to finally bring down an assailant. However, a little range is a good thing, and the knife-user has to be able to get TO you before he inflicts one of his DEBILITATING cuts.

Moloch
September 8, 2006, 04:04 PM
The knife is still the 2nd choice, the knife just cut some muscle tissue nothing dangerous.

Samurai
September 8, 2006, 04:11 PM
I wouldn't necessarilly say "nothing dangerous." With those cuts, unconsciousness and eventual death was imminent. Those guys needed medical treatment IMMEDIATELY.

But, the point is well made. Guns are generally accepted as more preferable than knives.

skeeter1
September 8, 2006, 04:59 PM
I'll go out on a limb here, but my guess is that even a .22 is preferable to a knife if ever the SHTF. I've got a couple of hunting knives that I've used to eviscerate animals after I've already killed them with a 12-gauge. Hmmm...

kungfucowboy
September 8, 2006, 05:18 PM
I'll go out on a limb here, but my guess is that even a .22 is preferable to a knife if ever the SHTF.

all depends on the situation as stated before a knife ia a very close quarters weapon. if i'm within about 3ft of someone i'll take a knife over any handgun.

ribbonstone
September 8, 2006, 05:37 PM
A guy who knows how to knife fight is certainly dangerous....best I've seen are some forign folks that seemed to have been raised with one as a child; it's use is truely second nature to them.


But still...given a choice as a civialian (who won't need to kill people quietly while they sleep), how many here will choose a knife over a gun?

smallshot
September 8, 2006, 06:16 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to laugh at the "nothing dangerous" comment. Perhaps the only deadly cuts that I have witnessed were pure luck, but there are people in places on this planet that you would certainly not want to engage with that theory. I'm constantly amazed by the perpetuation of wives tales and urban myths that have to do with armed cqb. If nothing else they are entertaining. Those that quote the "never bring a knife to a gunfight" generalization often know too little about any of the three. Neither Guns, knives, or the last but most important factor - fighting.

Jack O'Conner
September 8, 2006, 07:17 PM
I've never stabbed anyone. But years ago, I was a Marine and we practised attacking and stabbing dummies.

As I understand it, the knife is an offensive weapon and most effective when the victim does not know you have it until it's too late. In other words, you attack with the knife. This is not a very good self defense weapon unless your assailant unaware you have it in hand.

KA BAR still makes a good Made in USA combat knife. COLD STEEL makes even better models featuring much higher grades of steel. Years ago, Buck's folding lockback knife was the standard all others were measured against.
Jack

Blackwater OPS
September 8, 2006, 07:41 PM
But still...given a choice as a civialian (who won't need to kill people quietly while they sleep), how many here will choose a knife over a gun?

Count me in among that number, at least for within 3 feet(contact distance).

cje1980
September 8, 2006, 07:57 PM
The knife is still the 2nd choice, the knife just cut some muscle tissue nothing dangerous.

A KA-Bar USMC model will penetrate clear to someone's heart and will kill them faster than any handgun will. Samurai, said it quite well a gun simply gives you better range not more lethality. If I was dealing with an unarmed psychopath at close range I would rather have a long bladed combat knife. There isn't a very good chance that it will be taken away from you or disengaged in a fight.

I don't know anyone who can possibly think that a knife is nothing dangerous. Entire wars were fought with bladed weapons and millions of soldiers were killed upon these bladed weapons. A knife is definitely a lethal weapon and not just some silly toy. The real damage that is done to meat and tissue comes from a knife. Have you ever tried dressing or skinning a game animal with a firearm? Doing damage is much more effecient with a knife. Its just not as comforting as using a firearm due to the range it gives you. You can engage your threat from a farther distance. The knife can only be used at extremely close range. If you are using the right knife it is a very serious defensive tool. We aren't talking pocket knifes here.

tony pasley
September 8, 2006, 08:15 PM
At close range knife or gun would be tough call. Some one who knows how to use a blade is deadly, a handgun is also deadly but 10' gun vs. kinfe likely a tie

S.Miller
September 8, 2006, 08:41 PM
I work for a university police department. Back in the days when we still carried the PR-24 our Director told us that if we ever used our pistols against someone armed with a knife he would have our jobs. He insisted that we should be able to disarm an attacker who had a knife with our PR-24. This is but one example that showed what a stark, raving idiot the man was. It's not a secret that most cops are not nearly as proficient with their tools as everyone would like us to be. Telling cops that they should disarm someone threatening or attacking them with a knife by using their baton is begging to get a cop badly hurt or killed. That Director, BTW, was run out of town. Good riddance.

S.Miller
September 8, 2006, 08:45 PM
Forgot to mention...our training used to say that an ideal gap between us and a suspect was 21 feet. If you actually measure out 21' and mark it you'll see that it's probably further than you think. This distance was to assure us time to draw our firearm, baton or pepper spray and employ it before a charging suspect could reach us. The most recent training we've gotten has increased that distance to 30 feet. Truth be told, we never address people from that distance. It's rarely possbile (when you're in a room that is only 12'x12' it's physically impossible) and if I stood 21-30 feet away from a brawl, yelling at the combatants to break it up they wouldn't even hear me.

Chris Phelps
September 8, 2006, 10:09 PM
A guy who knows how to knife fight is certainly dangerous....best I've seen are some forign folks that seemed to have been raised with one as a child; it's use is truely second nature to them.


But still...given a choice as a civialian (who won't need to kill people quietly while they sleep), how many here will choose a knife over a gun?

I have owned a knife since the age of 3. I am quite good with knifes as offensive and defensive weapons, and can even throw them with good acuracy out to as much as 50 feet, although throwing one would be a last alternative since I would be losing my weapon.

I would (and do) choose to keep a knife close to my bed instead of a firearm, due to the extreme close quarters and layout of my house. I have found, while practicing room clearing with a friend using our fingers as weapons, that the tight corners and smaller rooms of the farm house we live in are not good for shooting techniques. In any given spot in the room, my friend could step out from the doorway (regardless of how he did it) and before his arms were extended in any sort of shooting position, I could slap him. (this means he is well within knife attack distance).

As it has been previously stated... the weapon you choose depends mainly on which is more practical.


The 3rd knife down from the top left (the largest) is the one I keep at my bedside.
http://www.dv8films.com/guns.jpg

S.Miller
September 8, 2006, 10:30 PM
Does anyone have any info on past cases, or pure subjective opinions, on how a prosecutor or jury would view self-defense with a knife vs. a firearm? As far as I'm concerned you defend yourself legally or otherwise, regardless of the weapon, but I can envision some pinhead prosecutor feeling that wounding or killing another with a knife is somehow really bad.

Ronny
September 9, 2006, 12:20 AM
Look at those injuries from a shooter's perspective: a shot that grazes the ribs, three shots that graze the back, and a shot that grazes the chest.

What if those weren't cuts, but stabs wounds measuring anywhere from 3 to 6 inches? What if they were center mass in the head, neck and chest area?

From an objective point of view, I see a parallel between "poor shot placement" and "poor cut/stab placement". You can see from these pictures that blades are capable of much larger wounds than handgun bullets. A skilled bladesman is just as deadly as a skilled shooter.

Range is a variable and an advantage, but it is never a guarantee. Shooter's who understand this have a wholehearted respect for the edged weapon and train accordingly. Blind faith in your gun alone just because you have one and your opponent doesn't is foolhardy, to say the least. Never underestimate your enemy and his weapon.

silicon wolverine
September 9, 2006, 08:15 AM
Something else to remeber is a knife wound to the armpit or inside of either thigh that is more than 1" deep is usually lethal inside of 60 seconds from blood loss.

SW

DonR101395
September 9, 2006, 09:16 AM
Inside 6' a knife is a much more dangerous weapon than a gun. According to the FBI statistics 85% of gunshot victims survive and only 65% of knife victims survive and the most leathal distance for a knife is 0-6'. If you encounter a knife at this distance you need to take care of the knife problem first and not try to trade cuts for bullets. A person who knows how to use a knife will cut you to shreds before you can get your pistol out of it's holster from close distance.

Chris Phelps
September 9, 2006, 09:17 AM
As is a deep gash in any direction near your stomache area. Break through all the skin from side to side, and the internal organs literally spill out of the body. Your neck area is also quite vital. Sayoc Kali teaches you about all of these vital areas, and a knowledgable bladesman can hit all 9 vital areas in less than 3 seconds with one continous move, and the reflexes of the victim will keep them from fighting back. Bottom line... get too close to someone who knows what they are doing, you will very quickly find out that a knife is not an inferior weapon.


FYI: Anyone who has seen the movie 'The Hunted' will know what I am talking about. That is sayoc kali, and it is very real!

Para Bellum
September 9, 2006, 12:03 PM
When you carry a gun, you are actually trading lethality in exchange for range. Lethality due to blood loss is a function of the amount of tissue exposed through skin damage.
if you carry a high capacity gun, like a double-stack 9x19mm etc, you can do a lot of tissue-damage in very short time and you can cause intrance- and exit wound bleeding...

As one guy above put it right: The knife is a weapon against the unarmed. Even after some 20yrs of martial arts training I would avoid fighting a knife with anything else than a gun.

Fighting with a knife requires extreme skill. Your own knife can be turned against you in the flick of a wrist.

and: there is no such thing as a CNS-Stab. and at knife-distances or a little farther, CNS shots are possibe and incapacitate upon impact.

Therefore: Gun on stong side, primary weapon. Knife on weak side to allow you to tickle BG away if he manages to lock you on top of your gun grappling.

if you fight a knife with a gun you have to distract the knife with your weak hand as good as you can while drawing and firing speed-rock-like. That puts your weak forarm at the risk of "firendly fire" but that risk has to be taken in order to survive...

cje1980
September 9, 2006, 01:10 PM
if you carry a high capacity gun, like a double-stack 9x19mm etc, you can do a lot of tissue-damage in very short time and you can cause intrance- and exit wound bleeding...

There have been BGs who have been shot several dozen times with a 9mm that continued to fight police. Its a fact a knife will kill somebody faster than a handgun will. 85% of people shot with handguns survive. That isn't a very comforting statistic to me. If I'm carrying a weapon in public it will definitely be a handgun as a combat knife if illegal in most places and not very practical for engaging armed threats at a distance. If you are at contact range against a non armed threat it is your duty to retreat. A knife doesn't make much sense as a carry weapon. I carry a Buck 110 on me at all times however. You never know when you are going to need a good knife.

At home is a different story. All incidents that occur in homes are extremely close range. My first line of defense is a 12ga shotgun. My plan is to strap on a tactical knife when investigating noises in the house. In case the shotgun fails I have an immediate lethal back up. I consider a knife to be more effective at quickly disabling an unarmed threat than a handgun. Depending on who you are up against you might shoot someone a dozen times and still be in grave danger. There is only so much a person can do when they have been drained of their blood. The real damage to meat and tissue comes at the hands of a knife. The longer the blade the better. I consider a handgun easier to be turned against you than a knife. You can't grab the blade of a knife without getting severe cuts on your hand.

S.Miller
September 9, 2006, 10:56 PM
Fackler, I believe, has stated that soft tissue that is cut is damaged most, followed by tissue damaged by a projectile (i.e. bullet).

gak1
September 10, 2006, 02:45 AM
Imo these "close in" encounters happen too fast to react to anyway.

Even if you're always on the edge in "Condition Pink" or whatever it's called, you'll be dead if it's from the back; or just trying to get out of the way if it's from the front. Then, if you're still alive after the first 2 seconds, you pull your gun or your blade, whichever you're better at using. No one can pass 900 people on the way to work and always be ready if any of those 900 people suddenly attack from any angle.

Be proficient with your firearm or your knife, and hope you live long enough to draw it. I'm sure a lot of cops died with their pistols in their holsters, and they're -trained- how to be alert.

tanksoldier
September 10, 2006, 02:53 AM
At contact distance a knife is easily as deadly as a handgun. In the hands of even a moderately skilled wielder, the threat of a knife skyrockets.

A skilled knife wielder can hit vital areas even with a small 1" keychain knife (eyes, neck, abdomen, groin). Hard to shoot when you're tripping over your own entrails.

A knife with a 3" blade can split your abdomen wide open, it can it can be driven up under your ribs and into your lungs, driven into an eye socket to the brain, into your kidney or the base of your skull from behind or up under your chin and thru your spine... and there's always the classic slashed throat.

A 6" inch knife can reach any vital organ easily from almost any angle.

It is rather easy to "trap" the hand or arm withh a handgun in such a manner that the firearm is rendered useless. It is very difficult to do this against a knife, and you risk an attack against your arm, hand or torso if the hold fails. You can suffer multiple stab wounds in a manner of seconds, and at contact range it's difficult to miss with a knife.

Knives are no joke, and if you let someone into contact range with one you will almost certainly get cut before things are done... and you can very easily be killed before you even know you're under attack.


The knife is still the 2nd choice, the knife just cut some muscle tissue nothing dangerous.

Lloyd Smale
September 10, 2006, 05:27 AM
ive had a little close quarter combat training and face to face id prefer a knife. Its faster to present, alot harder to defend against and to disarm just as deadly and probably more intiminating to your apponent then a gun. 5 feet away though and id take a gun anytime. Just remember if your facing a man a 5 feet that has a knife and you have a gun to keep shooting until hes on the ground and then a couple extra to make sure he doesnt get up because that knife will put a world of hurt on you.

Para Bellum
September 10, 2006, 06:12 AM
I agree with most of the above, but still:
a skilled oponent can block and turn a knife attack. Try blocking and returning bullets...

recently in my area a plainclothes LEO was assaulted and stabbed into the somach when he left a train. he pulled his 5shot .38Spl snubby and fired all rounds into the BG. The BG died the LEO survived.
When ambulance and uniformed police arrived the attacked LEO was sitting on the ground, still clinching to his snubby repeatedly pulling the tirgger click-click-click until the paramedics took it from his hands...
IMHO fighting a knife with a knife is much harder than fighting a knife with a gun (at any distance).

threefivesevenmag
September 10, 2006, 07:30 AM
Guns and knives are both defensive/offensive tools.

It was said well earlier that the most important part of the fight is...the fight. Not how one wins, but how one sets their mind.

A knife is not easy to strip away from an attacker, even if trained well to do so. It's very mental...getting shot and getting cut are shocks to our nervous system no matter where the location.

If you engage in a knife fight, and all real knife fights that end in blood have to be close range...then you will more than likely get cut. One stab and slash through a pectoral muscle or tendon in the arm will leave you pretty helpless on one side of your body. A bullet, while extremely effective, cannot always promise that. Sorry.

cje1980
September 10, 2006, 04:33 PM
I agree with most of the above, but still:
a skilled oponent can block and turn a knife attack. Try blocking and returning bullets...

A skilled opponent can turn a handgun attack as well, with more ease I should mention. Nobody is saying that a human being can block or dodge bullets just that human beings have been shown to be able to absorb massive amounts of handgun bullets. At close range you are lucky if you are even able to draw your weapon. In many cases as stated above people are killed before even drawing a weapon. If the BG gets a hold of your hand that has the firearm the firearm is rendered useless. The knife is still dangerous however. Its no guarantee that shooting a BG 2-3 times is going to put them down immediately. With that said, there no guarantee that 15rds will do the job.

Most incidents occur at very close range and a BG can cover that distance in usually less than 2 seconds. By the time you recognize the threat and draw your weapon, you're lucky if you can even get a shot off let alone enough shots to actually put the aggresor down for the count. Handgun rounds are not deathrays and at close range a knife is the more lethal weapon. If I was up against a crazed psycho with a combat knife I would fire if I had the chance but would most likely run like hell because I would consider myself to be at the disadvantage. There is no way I would just sit there and stand my ground. One swipe with a massive combat blade to my organs is about the equivalent of an entire magazine of 9mm rounds. The first thing we need to recognize is that handguns are not very effecient at wounding.

Mikeyboy
September 10, 2006, 07:57 PM
At breath smelling distance I would take a 6" bowie knife over a .22 NAA mini revolver any day of the week.

snolden
September 10, 2006, 11:50 PM
You have all already chosen to be proficient with guns. Add a knife to your everyday apparel. They are inexpensive compared to guns. I can send my underage kids to school wiht a 2.5" folder so they can have a defense. I can't send them to school with pepperspray or a gun.

There are many places where you are limited to a non firearm weapon. Train with both and you will never be unarmed.

Additionally, face up to the fact that if you ever get into a knife fight, YOU WILL BE CUT somewhere. This means you should learn to use your weak side hand as your strongside hand is most likely to be cut.

Me I carry a 4" folder on my strong side right next to my gun, I can have either out in <2 seconds from concealment. It aint the best odds but all you can do is train and be as prepared as possible.

springmom
September 11, 2006, 12:07 AM
I think Snolden's advice is good. I know for my own self, I'd probably get chopped up into lasagne in a tussle with somebody with a knife...but he's right, I should know more about how to deal with that. I think I'll check around Houston and see what's up. One or two of the indoor ranges sometimes sponsor self defense/shooting/etc classes....

One small point (pardon the pun): know the laws of your jurisdiction too. In Texas there's a limit to the size and the type of knife you can carry. I know daggers and throwing knives are illegal and IIRC, a four-inch blade is max for carrying on your person. Seems a bit restrictive to me, but what I know about knife fighting wouldn't fill a quark, so maybe 4" is enough anyway.

Thanks to all of you for a good discussion. I've learned a lot in this thread.

Springmom

tanksoldier
September 11, 2006, 12:34 AM
1. How skilled at hand-to-hand combat is the average CCWer? The defender would have to be much more skilled or lucky than the attacker to block or disarm a knife attack barehanded.

2. You don't block the bullets, you move the gun out of line... much easier to do than a knife. Even for those with combatives training, many arm locks and other holds that will render a firearm useless will not prevent a knife attack.

a skilled oponent can block and turn a knife attack. Try blocking and returning bullets...

Samurai
September 11, 2006, 11:17 AM
Unless the class is particularly reputable, I do not recommend a course at a shooting establishment to teach you knife defense. They often include one or two good techniques, but tend not to be very comprehensive. To anyone wishing to supplement their CCW training with some basics in knife defense, I would recommend a martial arts class that trains in empty-hand redirection. Examples are Aikido, Hapkido, and some forms of Jujitsu. If anyone is lucky enough to live near a reputable instructor in Krav Maga, you should definitely take advantage of that training opportunity, as Krav Maga is geared specifically toward military-style combative confrontations.

Other than that, the reality of knife-defense is that it is a practice in presenting non-vital target areas to the knife, and running like the dickens! When fighting empty-hand against a knife, the primary goal is to control the weapon. However, when fighting from CCW against a knife, the primary goal is to get FAR away from the knife and engage the target with your gun. Use your added range to your advantage!

Mikeyboy
September 11, 2006, 12:28 PM
a four-inch blade is max for carrying on your person. Seems a bit restrictive to me, but what I know about knife fighting wouldn't fill a quark, so maybe 4" is enough anyway.

It is 3" or less in most states. Consider yourself lucky. I have a tough time finding a good combat folder that is 3" or less. I currently carry a 2.99" Gerber Paraframe. I love the folding knife selection in the 3 to 4 inch range.

Chris Phelps
September 11, 2006, 06:47 PM
I can send my underage kids to school wiht a 2.5" folder so they can have a defense.


Really? Because my spiderco had a 2.5" blade and I got suspended from school on so many occasions for carrying it that it isnt even funny. You may want to recheck your laws... Federal (FEDERAL) law still reads " NO possession of weapons at any time". My mother is the contract manager for all school busses in the state of Maine, and for 6 years prior to her moving up here, she held the same position in the state of VT. She was also on the school board for Woodstock Union Highschool in VT for 13 years. Thats how I know these laws.


(and yes, I still chose to break them. )

Ronny
September 14, 2006, 11:13 AM
I apologize if this link has been posted before. I believe it's relevant to the topic of this thread, as this is what you're likely to face if the knifer is even moderately skilled with cut placement.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1459052511793821456&q=knife+attack+vs+gun&hl=en

Basically, I advise a whole lot of fast backpedaling during the draw and shielding yourself with your non-shooting hand. Then RUN away while shooting.

If you just stand there and draw, you're going to be dead or dying when the ambulence arrives.

tonerguy
September 14, 2006, 11:32 AM
Thanks for posting the video. I haven't seen it before and it sure illustrates what we've been talking about. Nice post.

Chris Phelps
September 14, 2006, 11:57 AM
+1 Thanks Ronny. You definitely brought home the point so many of us are trying to make here.

Samurai
September 14, 2006, 01:03 PM
Remember also that, unless you hit a hard target (bone in the hip, torso, or head), the gun is not going to have the "knock back" effect necessary to stop the charge. The effect of "beating" the knife guy to the draw is that you will both be hurt, and probably you will be hurt worse.

Basically, there is no substitute for training in the martial arts. If you can't move away from an attacker, and if you can't put up an effective blocking arm while you're drawing, then you're missing a crucial component of your defensive platform.

claude783
September 14, 2006, 03:17 PM
Many, many years ago when I wore a much younger man's shoes, I had the opportunity of attending a "private" class taught by the author of "Bloody Iron".

I had come to the conclusion, that were I camping and had to grab just one item and move (shtf) the one item I would grab would be a knife. With it I could build traps, make shelter, clean game. My only problem at that time is that I had no idea of how to "fight" with the edged weapon.

So, began a journey which even to this day, I continue. My last purchase was the Warrior Series of tapes put out by Lynn Thompson of "cold steel".

I have also attended the Rennisance Faire and talked to their "arms instructor". Gaining knowledge of the past, to understand that given a warriors training 1,000 years ago was still valid today.

My conclusion is that I always carry a knife. I have an extensive collection. I do not feel underarmed, as in close quarter combat, I will attack the flexor tendons of the gun hand, I will attack the hollow cavity in the pelivic area (blade upwards through the testicals into the hollow cavity, as there is no bone to deflect the blade in this area), I will also throw shots to the liver, and finally, there are the major artery's:

A knife, in close, is one of the deadlest weapons you can have. First and foremost it is a tool, but learn how to use it as a defensive weapon. A well trained man with a knife, close quarter combat, is gonna tear em' up. Yep, there is a 357 in a safe at the foot of my bed, punch in two digits and the electonics open it, but right next to my head is a tanto, ready, waiting, and probably just as deadly. The other plus, is if's it night when the gremlin's come in, no flash, no noise, just a loud shout and getting in close...then I can remove various pieces of their "humble" flesh!

Lloyd Smale
September 16, 2006, 04:00 AM
I agree with Samurai to a point. Martial arts training is great ive had a little myself but the problem i have with it is to much time is wasted on form and the art and to little time is spent on actuall fighting. In the service we were trained in hand to hand and knife fighting but we were trained by a group of instructors that were versed in a few different martial art forms. They dispensed with the speaking and counting in korean and the forms and consentrated on what it takes to stay alive. I later trained some in Soo Bahk Do and it was great exercise for the body and mind and no doubt helped but i still believe for the average guy a more condensed version of hand to hand fighting is in order. Bottom line is Samurai is very right about one thing. Your best defense is to get the hell out of Dodge! Up close and personal a knife is a very deadly and metal scrary weapon and at point blank range your about wasting your time trying to draw a handgun and use it. You will be layed open before you get your hand on it. About the only hope you have is to be trained to understand that your about to be cut and #1 know that if you protect your vitals the cuts wont be fatal and #2 neutalize your threat (dont be passive) Its alot easier said then done and i dont know how id even react in a real world cituation.