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bennnn
August 29, 2006, 05:34 PM
recently bought a "brand new" (ha ha) wasr-10, as my first ak varient, I can tell some of the parts are not new even though centruy is selling them as new.... here's my problem: the bullet tips are getting nicked when feeding into the chamber, almost half collapsing hollowpoints,, not as bad with fmj's but still leaving some copper on the ramp and bottem edge of the chamber,,, this must affect the accuracey right?? A dealer told me at a gunshow (after looking in the chamber) not to worry about it, it would "wear in",,,, i took my rifle back from him and walked away,,, I work with steel for a living, I am completeley aware of the properties of steel verses copper,, maybe it'll "wear in" before the rest of the rifle **wears out**,, but my educated guess says that's crap... I've been tempted to dremel a little of the ramp off, or just polish it,,, but ,,, well,,here's where you guys come in... What's my best option? (don't worry, I AM going to buy a higher quality ak varient next, but I'd really like to keep this one as well if possible... Advice??

Hedley
August 29, 2006, 06:16 PM
Mine does the same with SP's, but I don't know why. It shaves a good bit off. The same 12 year old Romanian who electropenciled my reciever is probably to blame. Are your sights canted as well?

bennnn
August 29, 2006, 06:42 PM
the rear sight is slightly out of level but the front sight is good,, strangley enough,,, it seems that the gas block is canted oppsite to the rear sight.....??

Hedley
August 30, 2006, 01:15 PM
Here ya go Ben. I did some informal research last night by topping off a full mag with two of each(left to right; Wolf HP, Wolf SP, Brown Bear FMJ, and Winchester FMJ), then racking the slide. Here's what happened with my Wasr.
The Wolf HP's got a little boogered, but they didn't close. The Wolf SP's got it the worse, as a good bit was shaved off. The Brown Bear FMJ got a little nicked, but not too bad. The Winchesters to the far right barely got dinged at all, but it still caused some deformation. You can't see much on the Winny's, but you can see the carpet fibers stuck to the burrs.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6496/img1530ft8.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3972/img1532np1.jpg

Hedley
August 30, 2006, 01:27 PM
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9246/img1519by9.jpg
I don't know if it's a common thing, but it appears that the ramp or throat is to blame. Or that electropencil kid...

Trapp
August 30, 2006, 01:50 PM
It looks like the ramp was dremeled down already.:confused: :confused:

You can get a new ramp and rivet in place, but that might mean you have tear down the gun completely (rivets and all) I will take a look at a few of my kit guns tonight and see if the have that angle ground into them..

Another option is to send it back to century and have them switch guns out........

Hedley
August 30, 2006, 05:12 PM
Hey Ben, I just read this somewhere else.

While there have been reports of poor mag placement in the SARs causing problems as you note, I would suspect YOUR AMMO choice.

It is NOT that your ammo is BAD...

It is just that the AK was designed as a military weapon...to use BALL AMMO (FMJ). In other words, the designer did not concern himself about sporting round use (why would he?).

The effect is, the soft lead tips of the SP ammo drags on the mag front, the bullet guide, and, the dinged/soft tip can resist chambering.

So? What to do?

(1) You can live with it.

(2) You can avoid SP use (it usually is more expensive anyway -and not much of a performer due to steel copper plated jackets usually being used).

Or...

(3) (The BEST choice)...get the bottom of the chamber mouth chamfered & radiused between 7:00 to 4:00 with no more width at the bottom than 4mm (45 degree angle) and, polished.

This can be done with a Dremel. It is not unlike what is done to a 1911 barrel throat to facilitate HP use.

ALL my AK weapons (save the .308 that is differently set-up) are so modified. They have had no FTF since.

Trapp
August 30, 2006, 05:23 PM
After checking my AK's all of them have the feed ramp slightly rounded. It appears to me that (at least the one in Hedley's pic) that the ramp was filed down too far. I guessing this is a common occurance with the WASR's.

In order to change it the front trunnion has to be completely removed. That requires removal from the receiver (drilling out rivets). Not worth it in my opinion. I would do the throat polish job.

Hedley
August 30, 2006, 05:26 PM
Nah, I just took those pics for Benn's reference to see if his looked any different. I usually only shoot FMJ's through mine anyways, and it appears that they don't get boogered up as bad. Call me picky(or hypocritical at the same time for loving my WASR), but I can't stand spending money on SP's that looked like the tips were sneezed onto the casing.

bennnn
August 30, 2006, 06:00 PM
Hedley, that first hp is realy close to what i'm getting, actually not as bad but real close, hey man that sp is straight up shaved,,, ,, I've also noticed something else, I ran a few shells through just ejecting, and it seems like the first round out of the clip gets the most abuse, but the others Do take the hit as well...back to the effect on accuracy,,, damadged projectiles can't fly as true as clean ones,, right guys?

Hedley
August 30, 2006, 06:24 PM
I have noticed I can hold tighter groups with FMJ's, but haven't tried the HP's yet. When I first got the WASR, I took it to an indoor range(poorly lit at 100yd) and plinked at the 50yd mark, and before I left, I ran the target way out to the 100 mark and slowly bench rested ten rounds of Wolf SP. Well, much to my embarassment, I retracted an unhit target. Well, it had a bit of debris damage, but that doesn't count for groups.:)

Then, about a week ago, a friend of mine took me to an outdoor range and so I tried again, but with the FMJ's. I ended up laying out a 12" or so pattern at 100. Not impressive by any means, but good for me. Now I'm wondering if it's the ammo(FMJ vs. SP) or the fact that I could clearly see the target in the sun light.

And Ben, like I said, I topped of a full mag (my loaded HD mag)with two rounds, cycled them, then topped it off agian with the next type and so on. So they were all 1st and 2nd rounds.

And you should have seen some SP shaving I did when tring to get a high cap mag to work on my Yugo. There were shavings evrywhere. Like that post that I quoted, those SP's are just too soft to "slide" gently into the chamber. At least with mine.

bennnn
August 30, 2006, 07:46 PM
off topic, but my yugo doesn't mark 'em at all with it's own matching # mag, I had lots of feed problems with a USA 20 round mag even after alot of tweaking.., in my opinion, all caused by the agressive spring and huge follower,but even the hp's were unmarked,, lucky find maybe...
But back to the wasr, never had any feed failure (yet) But this rifle has taught me a valuable lesson,, I have owned alot of guns that I never just cycled a full mag through, ejecting live rounds, to see what was happening to the projectiles,, now its SOP for me, the spring pressure/constant tension lbs. must change with each round but for some reason I never considered this.. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiance regarding how this may change accuracey potential?? is the first round as good as the last??

cosmolinelover
September 7, 2006, 02:07 AM
I may be way off here but....

I have a SAR-1 and I've never had any problems like that with any ammo... but it is a different gun.... however my buddy bought a WASR-10 (with the mag hole "cut out" to facilitate the use of double stack mags....)(from Century) and he has had similar problems. I can't tell for sure by the pics but it looks like a double stacker to me... you won't find any arguments from me that the feed ramp is angled kinda shallow but maybe its angled that way to work properly with the original single stack magazines those guns were "intended" for(i.e. - an excuse to import them). (maybe the single stacks have a higher feed angle? just a guess...) Never actually handled the 10-round variants (before they were cut) it seems they were all "cut" to "allow" double stacks, but at a bare minimum I know that double stacks do not generally fit as flush and solid in a WASR as they do in other AK variants (non-10 round ones). They're pretty easy to tell apart from the "dimple" in the side of the reciever above the mag well. Just my $.02

good luck with it

-cosmo

gdm
September 7, 2006, 08:16 AM
Some aks do this and some dont.Alot depends on correct mag placement,sure they will fire because of loose tolerances everywhere else but accuracy will indeed suffer.

Ive had several ak rifles including a milled legend copy from blue ridge that had a corroded barrel.None of them fed hollowpoints except the new one I bought that was made by a lisc manufacturer here in ohio.I guess It comes down to how much care was done in building it and the mags used.Itll still work, just not as accuratly as it could be.

bennnn
September 8, 2006, 04:14 PM
Do you mean none of them would feed hollowpoints at all? As in Not feed into the chamber out of the mag? I have come to the conclusion that I got what I paid for with my wasr-10, but damn, it just won't jam,, never has,, Even my ruger 10/22 will F.U. sometimes, With cheap ammo,,, but the reason I've become interested in the -47 design is the reliable performance of the action,,,

cosmolinelover
September 8, 2006, 04:36 PM
hows ur trigger on ur WASR? A couple buddies of mine bought one each and one of the triggers is really light and crisp (for an AK) and the other is kinda long and soft....

I've thought of getting one just to add to the collection cuz they're so cheap right now.. maybe put a new trigger assembly in if its possible... but I havne't been able to make up my mind yet....

bennnn
September 8, 2006, 11:27 PM
All around I've gotten pretty lucky with this rifle, the trigger pull is a little creepy but not too bad, a little slap, but again, not too bad, I'm not going to change anything, I may not even keep it, I want a Yugo ak pretty bad right now.This is my first ak and it's been great for the money.

Hedley
September 9, 2006, 12:25 PM
Put a G2 trigger on it...best $30 I've spent on a rifle.

bennnn
September 9, 2006, 03:28 PM
is that tapco?

CosmoLover
September 9, 2006, 11:07 PM
Yea, G2's are made by Tapco...I think they come in single and double hook. Mine's a single, and I honestly don't know the difference betweem the two. I've never sqeezed the trigger of a stock WASR, but my only complaint is the extremely light trigger pull of the G2. I think it's right around 3 pounds or so.