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View Full Version : Fobus Gun Grab Video


FLA2760
June 21, 2006, 11:13 PM
Hi
Check this out!

http://media.putfile.com/gungrab-fobus

hornet41
June 22, 2006, 08:01 AM
Darn, I have three of those holsters!!! Got some thinking to do!!!! Thats scarey!

Topthis
June 22, 2006, 10:35 AM
I had seen this video before. It appears that the "victim" is helping to push down also. I had tried this out with a friend of mine...it took ALOT of effort on his part to get the holster to separate, in fact there was much struggling etc, I could have easily given him a few elbows to the face and other types of blows...way before he was able to separate the holster. Perhaps it is just like guns...sometimes you get a lemon...as in the case of this particular one in the video.

VUPDblue
June 22, 2006, 10:37 AM
practice the first 'C' in 'CCW' and this won't be an issue...

hsim
June 22, 2006, 11:04 AM
Does anyone really use one for carry? they are not the easiest to conceal.

VUPDblue
June 22, 2006, 11:11 AM
I use the paddle holster for my G36 and for my snubby Chief's Special. They conceal perfectly for me.

silicon wolverine
June 22, 2006, 11:18 AM
I have a paddle lefty for my glock 17 and as long as you wear a shirt thats long enough, no problems.

SW

FLA2760
June 22, 2006, 01:32 PM
I use a Fobus for my Glock27 around the house and property. I utilize an IWB rig for the rest of the time.

Samurai
June 22, 2006, 01:59 PM
This is one of the big problems about carrying weapons. Sometimes, when stuff goes downhill, all you accomplish by bringing a weapon to the scene is to better arm your enemy. This is why people who carry need to train!

I saw a police video on one of the news channels a few weeks ago where a guy beat up a cop in a routine traffic stop. The cop had a strong-side kydex holster for his Glock, which required that he lift his right elbow upward and behind him to draw it. All the bad guy did was get behind the cop, body check him against his own squad car, and place his hand on the back of the cop's right elbow, while delivering left-handed elbows to the back of the cop's head. The attack went on close to a minute, and the cop was completely unable to draw on the guy, because the cop couldn't lift his elbow.

So, what do we learn? Do not ever RELY on having a weapon to give you superior power over a determined assailant. Weapons are great, if you have them. But never forget that they can be taken away from you. Train in weapon retention. Train in weapon recovery. Train in weapon improvisation. And above all else, train to be able to get OUT of one of these bad situations.

Watch the video again. If the guy wearing the holster had grabbed the gun with both hands and spun around 360 degrees to his right, he could have gotten out of this. But, he would have to know how to do it, and he'd have to be able to fire off the technique quickly.

Train well.

k9lwt
June 22, 2006, 02:24 PM
That's why defensive tactics are so important. You need to be able to get him out of the fight and take him into custody before he can take over the situation.

Lavan
June 22, 2006, 02:38 PM
And .....STILL..... nobody uses lanyards.

FLA2760
June 22, 2006, 03:03 PM
Hi
I have a leather boot lace that I use as a lanyard on my extra large cold steel voyager. I did this mainly for when I use the knife while on the boat fishing. I do not use it on any of my firearms though. :D

dawg23
June 22, 2006, 03:11 PM
Posted 6/22/06 by Topthis: "I had seen this video before. It appears that the "victim" is helping to push down also. I had tried this out with a friend of mine...it took ALOT of effort on his part to get the holster to separate, in fact there was much struggling etc, I could have easily given him a few elbows to the face and other types of blows...way before he was able to separate the holster. Perhaps it is just like guns...sometimes you get a lemon...as in the case of this particular one in the video.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but:

1. In every training class I've ever taken, you are taught to push the weapon down into the holster as hard as you can to keep the perp from pulling it out. So, yeah, the "victim" was "helping push down."

2. If you use your arm to deliver all those elbow strikes, you will get shot. As soon as you let go of the weapon, he pulls it out of the holster and shoots you.

3. That holster isn't a lemon. It's a typical Fobus. James Yeager LOVES to get students in his classes with Fobus holsters, and the same procedure is demonstrated. I first saw it done YEARS ago.

4. Of course, if someone REALLY LOVES his or her Fobus, and want to keep his or her head in the sand (or stuck in his or her rectum), they should keep using the Fobus.

5. Everyone else should invest $20 in an Uncle Mike, or $25 in a Blade Tech or (for the best I've found) invest $50 in a Comp-Tac. The Uncle Mike doesn't conceal any better than the Fobus (i.e. poorly), but the Blade Tech and Comp-Tac do an exceptionally good job. The added bonus of the Comp-Tac is that the paddle holsters slip off or on in 2-3 seconds, but CAN'T be removed by a perp.

BOTTOM LINE: Fobus holsters are inferior to almost every Kydex holster on the market. But they are fiercely defended by folks who (apparently) have never tried anything else.

cal
June 22, 2006, 03:50 PM
I call BS on your post.

dawg23
June 22, 2006, 04:12 PM
Another Fobus owner weighs in.:D

tshadow6
June 22, 2006, 04:24 PM
I use one to ccw my Glock 19. I like them so much I became a dealer.

tshadow6
June 22, 2006, 04:31 PM
I got into a fight with a bad guy while wearing my duty weapon in plain view. As soon as he began to resist, I applied overwhelming force to subdue him. The gun grab video shows a large man standing by while another guy grabs his weapon. Anything can be proved wrong if one tries hard enough. I'll keep my Fobus .

Rainbow Six
June 22, 2006, 05:55 PM
I've never cared for Fobus. Threw all of mine in the trash a few years ago. They always seemed/felt like cheap junk to me.

I'd like to see them try that with a Blackhawk CQC Serpa paddle. I bet the guy's pants/belt would come down before the Blackhawk came apart.

As for talking about weapon retention, only those who have fought for their weapon are qualified to comment. It's easy to tell who has and who hasn't by their comments... Enough said.

Rainbow Six
June 22, 2006, 05:57 PM
And to all who call BS... this isn't the first time this Fobus flaw has been documented...

liliysdad
June 22, 2006, 06:24 PM
With the paddel attached, the same thing can be done with the Blackhawk CQC. They have a bad habit of pulling the screws through the plastic.

For the monsy, the BladTec injection molded holsteris the best thing going, if you need/want a cheap holster. They are ten dollars in from Brownells,and are attached with large headed screws. Paddles are NEVER a good idea.

Fobus are complete junk, and are good for absolutely nothing. Uncle Mikes is far, far better.

Lavan
June 22, 2006, 07:06 PM
mmm

DanV1317
June 22, 2006, 07:15 PM
1. Concealed Carry. Use it.
2. I wouldn't use a fobus even if they offered to sponser me.

Topthis
June 22, 2006, 07:24 PM
In response to your rebutt to my post...

1. When I was testing this out with my friend, I did not need to push down and instead grabbed his hand. It took him a helluva lot longer to pull my holster apart and there was alot more struggling and effort on his part.

2. I can guarantee you that after 30 years of Martial Arts training in 5 different styles (not that it makes a diff.), he will NOT be able to do much of anything after one or two elbows to his face. Not only that, I MOCK struck him in the face while he was doing this.

3. If it was a typical Fobus in the Video...maybe mine is an exceptionally awesome model, in that it did not come apart so easily.

4. Gee..how can anyone take your number 4 comment the wrong way!

5. I have a number of holsters that I use...and I will still keep my Fobus.


But please don't take my responses the wrong way!!

444
June 22, 2006, 09:18 PM
I guess I have to talk crap here.

If I paid to go to a formal class (usually right around a grand just for the tuition) and the instructor tore my holster apart, I promise you that we would be brawling for real.

tINY
June 23, 2006, 01:08 AM
For a convienent carrier for my G21 (under a coat). It's the best $17 I ever spent....



-tINY

threegun
June 23, 2006, 07:25 AM
If I paid to go to a formal class (usually right around a grand just for the tuition) and the instructor tore my holster apart, I promise you that we would be brawling for real.


You said what I was thinking. We would definitely be testing his boxing skills......jab.....straight right.........left hook.........break a mans holster whats wrong with you. Now if said instructor breaks my holster and very quickly hands me a new better holster all would be forgiven pretty quickly.

Benzene
June 23, 2006, 07:26 AM
These things come with a life-time replacement warranty. Doesn't this say something about the confidence Fobus has in them? I've heard that the company has made significant improvements lately.

The statement, "I've never cared for Fobus. Threw all of mine in the trash a few years ago. They always seemed/felt like cheap junk to me," poses a difficulty to me. How much was "all", at what point were they deemed 'cheap junk', and why would someone continue to purchase that many 'cheap junk'?

I don't mean to "attack" anyone; I'm just trying to get a fair picture of how these holsters are viewed by serious people.

Samurai
June 23, 2006, 08:57 AM
Man! You guys are being really hostile toward one another! Everybody chill out.

A real pet peeve of mine is when people talk down to other people's training. I think that, if you know what you're doing, a good elbow to the face could do some good. It's not what I'd do, but my training is different from his...

Now, concerning the holsters, I think the thing to remember is that a weapon is an inherently uncontrollable thing. Do not assume that, because it hangs on your body, that you've got it under control. You don't. Equipment fails, third-parties interfere with your control.

Be paranoid about your weapon control. Train, train, train!

john in jax
June 23, 2006, 09:50 AM
Just my 2 cents . . . I like paddles and A Safariland 518 is probaly my favorite holster. The Galco P.L.E. and DiSantis Paddles I've owned are almost as good. IMO these ride tighter to the body offering better concealment. I also think these holsters provide better weapon retention properties.

That being said I do have a Fobus tactical, and I do wear it for CCW occasionally. BUT when I'm wearing it I am more careful, more aware and generally much more protective of my "personal space". The Fobus is a great, lightweight, durable, little platform, but it is NOT what I'd call a professional "duty" holster.

Again just my oppinion if you want the best spend the big bucks on a Safariland 518 or a Galco P.L.E.. For +/-$20 the Fobus is a good little holster, but it does have its limitations.

liliysdad
June 23, 2006, 10:25 AM
If I paid to go to a formal class (usually right around a grand just for the tuition) and the instructor tore my holster apart, I promise you that we would be brawling for real.

I would ask that if you paid 1000 bucks for a class, why would you show up with junk equipment?

It amazes me that people will spend upwards of 400 dollars, much more in most cases, in a fighting gun, and then pay 20 bucks for a holster. The holster is as much a piece of the wepon as the gun is.

The same thing occurs in law enforcement. We wear a gun minimum 8 hours a day, five days a week. It amazes me that guys will go out and buy a Bianchi or Uncle Mikes holster, and feel they are secure. Even worse are those jokers who wear a Fobus or Uncle Mike's nylon off duty.

In the academy, I saw several Uncle Mikes and Bianchi duty holsters ripped and torn from duty belts. You knw what the response from the instructor was? "Good thing its a class, or you'd be dead."

Pony up and sepnd the money on good equipment, or face the fact that you get what you pay for. Fobus is cheap junk, no matter how much you like it. For a range holster, they are OK at best. For any serious work, they are a joke.


Me, I have an injection molded BladeTech for range/sometimes off duty wear. It cost ten dollars from Brownells, and is ten times the holster the Fobus is. Normally, however, I wear a Tucker HF1 OWB. Yes, it was expensive, at about 100 dollars. However, when I carry a gun that cost over 600 bucks, it doesnt make sense to carry it in junk.

Benzene
June 23, 2006, 11:40 AM
Carrying a firearm is very serious "business". As such, I'm keenly interested in hard facts related to as many aspects as is applicable to me. I find such phrases as "junk equipment," "cheap junk," and "...those jokers who ..." somehow unhelpful. I'd much prefer to read hard facts, in this case, related to the recent versions of the Fobus holster.

If the +/-$20 device could indeed perform well enough, what's the wisdom in spending that much more? Or is that simply because something costs more, it is intrinsically superior?

Thanks a bundle, john in jax, for your helpful input.

OneInTheChamber
June 23, 2006, 12:15 PM
It didn't look like to me that the Fobus has any more rentention on it then just the tension of it in the holster. Is that correct? If so , :eek: .

I have a Bianchi Carry-Lok that I really like. It has a small lever you press with your middle finger as you draw. That lever is holding onto the trigger guard of the weapon.

Without pressing that lever, the weapon will not come out; no matter how much force you apply.

How come we don't see more of these devices on holsters intended for duty carry?

Also, with a little practice, it's just as fast as a regular holster.


If I paid to go to a formal class (usually right around a grand just for the tuition) and the instructor tore my holster apart, I promise you that we would be brawling for real.

I don't know about you, but I'd easily forget the value of the holster compared to the lesson just learned. Learning that in training vs. learning that when a perp does it to you is worth $$$ to me.

tINY
June 23, 2006, 12:41 PM
Since I carry concealed, it's unlikely that someone will sneak up and attempt to grab my pistol. If they do, they end up with a shirt or coat in their hands.

I don't consider Fobus a good choice if I was wearing a pistol openly as part of my employment.

I'm sure that Illysdad drives Bentleys too, because Chevys are cheap junk....

Give me a break!




-tINY

john in jax
June 23, 2006, 01:06 PM
lilysdad and I are on the same page - - CHOOSE THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!

Holster talk - - just my oppinions

The Fobus Paddle is a nice lightweight little hoster, ideal for having a place to put your gun at the range. The plastic construction has advatages when working outdoors. And I do wear mine sometimes for CCW when I'm not going to be in crowded places. The only weapon retention is friction - the plastic grabs the trigger guard. I am VERY paranoid about letting anyone in my personal space much less letting them anywhere near my gun when wearing this holster. Rides good and high, concealable under a big, loose shirt only +/-$20

Uncle Mikes (nylon w/thumbreak) Paddles - I have them and wear them, I'm old-school and feel more secure with thumbreaks, but the these do not have any belt retention clips meaning they EASILY pull up and off your belt/pants. Easy on/off, but also easy for a fast, big, strong, bad guy to pull right out of your pants. Adjustable ride height and cant, concealable under a big, loose shirt only +/-$29

My High End Duty/Professional holsters Safariland 518 and Galco Paddles are very old and worn - - I still have them and still wear them but they are all but used up (checking ebay regulary for new ones). For me these are the be-all-end-all in Paddle Holsters. They ride high and keep the gun tight to your body enabling you to conceal your weapon much easier - - this may not matter much with a sub-compact .380 or 9mm, but with a full size .45acp, you need all the help you can get. Thumbsnap retention plus friction retention, and good belt hooks so that it can't be easily wisked right off your belt. The best concealment, the best retention, but also the highest price +/-$80 for a used Safariland 518.

All that being said The best, most expensive holster in the world doesn't mean squat if your primary weapon, YOUR BRAIN, isn't properly trained and aware. I don't care how much you spend, if you don't learn, rehearse, practice, train and more importantly stay alert, you are toast.

Rainbow Six
June 23, 2006, 02:20 PM
The statement, "I've never cared for Fobus. Threw all of mine in the trash a few years ago. They always seemed/felt like cheap junk to me," poses a difficulty to me. How much was "all", at what point were they deemed 'cheap junk', and why would someone continue to purchase that many 'cheap junk'?

Valid point... Bought three in one day for three different types of guns. So I didn't continue to buy junk, I bought a heap of it at once. It was certainly dumb to buy that many without checking one out first. Something I haven't done since regardless of how cheap they were. I bought one CQC Serpa for my Sig P229R and checked it out before buying a second for my Glocks. Won't buy more than one of any holster ever again without having checked out the quality first.

dawg23
June 23, 2006, 06:49 PM
John in Jax:

You might want to take a look at www.comp-tac.com.

First do a search over on Glock Talk on comp-tac. They are widely recognized as top quality.

Second, order one. If you don't like it, just send it back. Full refund - no questions asked. And it'll usually ship to you the next day.

I wear the standard paddle. It WON'T come off unless you want to take it off (and then it only takes about 2 seconds). Comp-Tac has a unique system to hold it on your belt without those annoying little "wart things" that you find on the Blade Techs and the Kydex Uncle Mikes.

Lots of folks like Comp-Tac's "fancy" paddle holster. I just have never tried one (bought mine before they came out with the fancy one).

Comp-Tacs hold the grip of my Glocks VERY snugly against my waist. But they are still very fast. I missed the Texas State IDPA match this year for the first time in a long time (elbow surgery), but in all previous years Comp-Tac was BY FAR the most widely used holster there (among ~300 shooters).

Like a lot of folks, I have a large box of holsters that I never use. They include Side Armor, Uncle Mike kydex (still a very good holster for the $$), Blade Tech (another VERY GOOD holster for the money), Pager Pal, Fobus, Hellweg (my wife likes them because they fit her figure better) and a few more from garage sales and internet auctions. After buying my first Comp-Tac, I bought a few more (to fit different weapons) and have ended my quest for the "best" holster.

If a Paddle fits your lifestyle, Comp-Tac's are outstanding. If you want a different type (belt holster, an IWB, etc.), Comp-Tac makes 'em, but I haven't tried 'em. I suspect they are excellent.

epr105
June 23, 2006, 07:54 PM
Let me say it..... I have a Fobus:eek: but, I have lots of holsters. I have a DeSantis paddle also and I dont like it. I also have a few fanny packs and yeah when the weather is real hot I use them. I also know the risks of what I am doing and the use of an occasional fanny pack or paddle holster is just an other risk factor to add when I go out. Situation awareness and keeping the weapon concealed are the key. I have carried for over 12 years and spent lots of money on holsters of all diffrent types. My regular carry is a desantis pancake on a good belt covered by a jacket or shirt. I can never understand the person who buys a 600++ handgun and then buys one 20 dollar holster and expects it to last and cover all carry needs.
Good luck with the choice of what you need.:D
Ed
EPR105

444
June 25, 2006, 01:37 AM
"I would ask that if you paid 1000 bucks for a class, why would you show up with junk equipment?"


I have used a Fobus paddle holster in at least five formal firearms classes at some of the top schools in the country: and, I held my own with anyone there. In the last class I took, within the last couple weeks, we were making shots (pairs) from the holster in 1.3 seconds on turning targets. The Fobus worked fine. I made the decision based on experience rather than on what I read on the internet.

So, the first reason I show up with a Fobus is because it works fine. I actually own more expensive Kydex holsters (BladeTec) as well as various leather holsters, so I certainly have my choice which would cost me absolutely nothing: I could just take the other holster out of the box and use it: but I don't.

The only reason I own a Kydex holster at all is because no school that I have ever attended allowed me to use my actual concealed carry holster. No match (IDPA or IPSC) would allow me to use my actual concealed carry holster (usually a Milt Sparks Versa-MaxII of which I own three). They demand that you use an outside the belt holster that doesn't break the "180". I fully understand and appreciate this. If we are standing shoulder to shoulder on the firing line, I certainly don't want the guy next to me drawing from behind his hip and possibly sweeping me with his muzzle. So, why would I buy a more expensive holster that I would use ONLY for formal training classes when the holster I use now works fine ? If you tried to tear my actual carry holster off my belt it would be very difficult considering the fact that it is completely inside my pants with only two straps going over my belt. There are a few lessons in this: first of all, I carry concealed outside of the classroom or competition environment. If you even know I am carrying, I have done something wrong. Second, if you can approch me and rip my holster off my belt (if this is even possible) then I was in condition white and totally out to lunch, I have done something else wrong.

So there is no lesson to be learned here and my statement still stands: you destroy my equipment or lay hands on me and we are going to be testing our fighting skills. If the class had anything at all to do with weapon retention that would be one thing. If the instructor just thinks it is clever to rip holsters off the hips of his paying customers, we would have a big issue.

fastbolt
June 25, 2006, 12:31 PM
I've collected my fair share of boxes of holsters over the years.

This is my 25th year in L/E, and I've had a chance to try a number of different holsters during my plainclothes assignment of the last several years, as well as for off-duty.

I have a fair sampling of synthetic 'plastic' holsters from different makers. They have their advantages/disadvantages, as well as their strong/weak points. All of them.

I had a Blade-Tech paddle fall about a foot and a half to the ground one day, and the holster broke (vertically) along the entire front of the holster body. It was one of the older 1-piece, folded paddle holsters. I'm told the newer ones are stronger. I still have a number of the older ones for different guns. The Blade-tech injection holster I picked up for my G26/27 is nicely done, carries higher on the beltline for a slight concealment advantage with some cover garments, and it doesn't stick outward as far as the Fobus paddle holster I have for the same pistols.

I've bought at least 3 Fobus paddle holsters. Two of them have annoyingly strong retention, and the third one is rather weakly tensioned.

The Fobus holsters, and paddle/holster connection, are held together with rather small diameter rivets in somewhat soft plastic. I bear this in mind when I wear one.

The Blackhawk holster I bought is only for range use. It lacks the button lock (deliberately so). When I bought it the clerk at the police supply store told me that some of their customers had reported the paddles breaking off the back of the holsters, but that if I called the company they had a new, improved paddle fixture they could send me. I haven't called yet. It's only a range holster, and I try to avoid gymnastics as part of my planned range activities.;)

When I really want the best compromise and combination of holster attributes ... security, comfort, speed of presentation, retention & durability, to list a few ... I use a well-made leather holster from a maker I trust.

Synthetic holsters have come a long way, granted. They have their uses.

When it comes to carrying a handgun for my plainclothes duties, though, I returned to leather a while back. I'll still use one of my many synthetic holsters for 'casual' off-duty activities, when I don't 'expect' to encounter an armed suspect, and in a situation which may involve physically strenuous activities. Some of my activities prompt me to use a different type of holster, though.

Just a while back my partner was easing down into his desk chair, while wearing a 'name brand' plastic holster ... and the arm of his chair promptly lifted the pistol and caused it to pop right out of the holster, to fall onto the floor. ;)

BTW, I gave up trying to 'convince' anyone that their holster preferences were less-than-ideal. L/E may have to comply with agency policies and restrictions when it comes to carry methods and specific holsters, at least for on-duty holsters. I'll offer an opinion, backed up with any relevent personal experiences and/or observations, but if someone wants to choose a holster that I personally wouldn't choose? Hey, I don't have to carry it, now, do I?

As with many other things ... Personal risk assessment and informed choice, coupled with potential individual responsibility for the choice.

The one thing all of my holsters have in common? I use frequently use them on the range so I remain proficient with them, and I additionally spend some time practicing with them with EMPTY weapons, using various concealment garments.

The 'best' holster in the world won't help you if you can't safely, properly and effectively employ & use it ...

LiquidTension7
June 25, 2006, 02:34 PM
I have a Fobus, but I only use it for range work. It's just too bulky for concealed carry. It never struck me as the most secure holster but as the saying goes, concealed is concealed.

TexasCop
June 25, 2006, 04:15 PM
concealed means concealed, nobody should know you have it anyway. I carry just about all my off-duty guns in level 0 holsters (tension retention only)

dawg23
June 26, 2006, 12:53 PM
Posted by 444:
The only reason I own a Kydex holster at all is because no school that I have ever attended allowed me to use my actual concealed carry holster...................................

I have used a Fobus paddle holster in at least five formal firearms classes at some of the top schools in the country...................If the class had anything at all to do with weapon retention that would be one thing. If the instructor just thinks it is clever to rip holsters off the hips of his paying customers, we would have a big issue.

The only reason I own a Kydex holster at all is because no school that I have ever attended allowed me to use my actual concealed carry holster........ They demand that you use an outside the belt holster that doesn't break the "180".

1. Fobus holsters aren't Kydex. Blade Tech, Comp-Tac, Sidearmor, Uncle Mike and almost every other decent synthetic holster is Kydex. The Fobus is made of some cheap, injection molded, flexible plastic.

2. I find it hard to believe that you went to all those "formal classes" at those "top" schools and you didn't receive instruction in weapon retention. That topic is covered at the basic defensive pistol course level by many instructors. And FWIW, that's where I have seen instructors demonstrate why the Fobus isn't recommended for CCW.

3. I have never attended a course that required the use of "outside the belt" holsters. All allowed IWB holsters. I guess I just haven't been to any "top" schools.

Fastbolt: Excellent, cogent post.

444
June 26, 2006, 04:36 PM
I guess not.

I have never seen a student with an inside the waist band holster at any of them. And, only one instructor: Louis Awerbuck carried IWB. Of course out of those classes, only a few (four ?) were handgun classes, but at some of the long gun classes (the ones at Gunsite) they wanted you to carry a handgun also. At all of them, at least the instructors were carrying handguns and only one of them was carrying inside the waist band.

And, at none of them was weapon retention discussed that I remember. I can assure you that no instructor destroyed any student's equipment.

Shaun
June 26, 2006, 04:42 PM
just because nobody carried IWB, doesnt mean it was a rule, I carry IWB and would be upset if i went to a class on using my weapon, and they forced me to carry it in a manner i wasnt going to. Itd be like learning how to hit golfballs with a baseball bat when training for your tour card.

444
June 26, 2006, 04:47 PM
Maybe you are right.
After saying all this, I don't remember now if anyone ever told me not to carry inside the waistband. In fact, when I made that last post I checked a couple websites and none actually say what kind of holster they want you to carry. I don't remember now if they sent out information before hand that led me to believe that or how exactly I got that idea. I guess I got the idea from the various handgun sports I have shot that wouldn't allow me to carry a holster behind the hip. To be honest, the first couple classes I went to, it never occured to me to carry IWB because they were carbine classes. At Gunsite they wanted you to carry a handgun in the carbine class and I never thought about carrying concealed since I was openly carrying a carbine. The first handgun class I ever took: Gunsite 250, I bought a BladeTec holster at the Gunsite Pro-Shop on the advice of the instructors because they didn't like the cant on the holster I showed up with. After a couple classes, I wanted to carry IWB but since I had never seen anyone ever do it, I guess I ASSUMED that it was not allowed.

So, I was talking out my ear. I was wrong (I guess ?, can't prove it anyway ?).

But, the fact still remains that no one did it in any of the classes I ever took. A couple of the classes I took even required you to shoot most of the class from concealment and everybody just used an outside the belt holster with a cover garment. I took one as recently as within the last month, no one used an IWB holster and no one mentioned weapon retention.

Double Naught Spy
June 26, 2006, 08:07 PM
And .....STILL..... nobody uses lanyards.

I haven't seen any lanyards designed to keep attackers from being able to take guns and I haven't seen any so strong that they would remain attached to the original carrier. Lanyards are meant to prevent loss via means such as droppage, not fighting...

This one is designed to 100 lbs test. It will separate with a good yank.
http://www.slingsonly.com/pistol_lanyard.html

Here is the concealed carry version that appears smaller, hence I would think it is less strong. Check out the way you use it to get back your gun. When the attacker has the gun pointed at you, you yank the lanyard. I am sure he won't pull the trigger or anything. I really like the fact that you don't attempt to control the gun, but the lanyard first, then the gun. Seems like they have the order wrong given that as long as YOU don't control the gun, it may still harm you or other good guys. The way the lanyard is grabbed and pulled, it looks like it is still pointed at the cop in the images. See images 7 and 8
http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/Pistol_LANYARD/TTL-PCO-TAN

For giggles, check images 4 and 5 and compare with 6 and 7. The gun is grabbed with the left hand and then inbetween images, the attacker changes hands. It is too bad the cop didn't react during the transition when the attacker's grip on the gun was most vulnerable. Apparently nobody in the images believes in two-handed holds or just pulling the darned trigger.

choochboost
June 28, 2006, 12:31 AM
I'm always amazed when people defend Fobus as if its anything more than a $20 holster. It is not the "Bersa" of holsters - you Bersa owners know what I'm talking about.

NRAhab
July 9, 2006, 02:51 PM
That's the problem, all you people are carrying in plastic holsters.

I wish "gunleather" was more than a figure of speach.

;)

silicon wolverine
July 9, 2006, 04:23 PM
Boy we got kind of nasty over asthetics. It boils down to this: If fobus works for you, great use it. If you dont like it/doesnt work DONT USE IT! Yes fobus is a bottom dollar holster. not all of us can afford to spend 75-150 bucks for a holster. Ive tried unlce mikes (not very comforable) safariland (didnt fit my gun well, poor retention) and galco (OK but i dont like shoulder holsters) and every time i got back to the fobus. BTW fobus is now making an IWB holster.

http://www.botac.com/foiwbho.html

But it doesnt look that comfortable either.

SW

liliysdad
July 10, 2006, 01:24 AM
If you can afford 400+ on a quality gun, you can afford 50-150 dollars on a decent holster, and thats a fact.

razorburn
July 10, 2006, 02:15 AM
Am I the only one who could care less? First, my gun is concealed. No one should know I have it unless I'm already aware of a threat and had to draw. Secondly, if the guy knew I had a weapon and also had the jump on me as completely unprepared like with the guy in the video, he could also just stab, choke, knock out, shoot me first, whatever. A different holster wouldn't matter, you're already at an almost impossible disadvantage. Third, even if I had a better holster, if I can remove the gun, so can he. If he has you so completely unaware like in that video, he might as well unstrap your gun too. Or get a guy strong enough or determined enough, and he'll rip your $400 holster away from you, taking your pants and belt with it too if need be.

silicon wolverine
July 10, 2006, 08:59 AM
LD what you and i consider a "decent holster" is apprently two different things.

SW

David Armstrong
July 14, 2006, 03:15 PM
Third, even if I had a better holster, if I can remove the gun, so can he. If he has you so completely unaware like in that video, he might as well unstrap your gun too. Or get a guy strong enough or determined enough, and he'll rip your $400 holster away from you, taking your pants and belt with it too if need be.
Well said. I've attended and taught at numerous seminars where handgun retention was worked on, and I think over the years I have seen virtually every brand of holster made fail at one time or another. FWIW, I've got lots of holsters including Safariland, Kramer, Bianchi, and have used lots more over the years, but the one I find myself using the most for waistband carry these days is the Fobus. It works well, it does the job it is designed for, and is comfortable for me. And it has made it through a couple of handgun retention classes without falling apart.

Jager1
July 23, 2006, 10:10 PM
Anything can be proved wrong if one tries hard enough. I'll keep my Fobus .

Sure. You sell them, don't you? :rolleyes: