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gdeal
June 9, 2006, 07:32 PM
I live in SoCal (not Orange County) where it is difficult to get a CCW permit. I bought a Blackhawk MOD ATFK and started carrrying it in my pocket today. No I don't expect to be in a knife fight but just the thought of always having a weapon on me. And I am a guy that doesn't like to have anything in the pockets like car keys and stuff. I will see how long I will do this and how much I will do this. Do any concealed carry people have any thoughts on this?

Blackwater OPS
June 9, 2006, 07:39 PM
Better a knife than nothing. I carry a knife in addition to my CCW for reasons mentioned in recent threads. CA has great knife carry laws BTW unless you live in certain areas(LA COUNTY). Check out the laws before you carry.

Capt Charlie
June 9, 2006, 09:04 PM
A good knife is always a good thing to have, whether or not you have a firearm. On those rare days when I'm not carrying concealed (90+ degree days in the better parts of town ;) ), my Cold Steel Ti-Lite is always in my pocket.

JoshB
June 9, 2006, 10:55 PM
+1 Mr. Deal on taking up what arms you can.
I'm sure you should be able to find some classes on knife fighting. I learned some good knife techniques in the Marines, but I'm sure they have something for civilians.

I'm considering carrying a knife in addition to my 1911. Any thoughts for a good self defense knife?

Capt Charlie
June 9, 2006, 11:06 PM
I'm considering carrying a knife in addition to my 1911. Any thoughts for a good self defense knife?

...my Cold Steel Ti-Lite (http://www.coldsteel.com/tilites.html) is always in my pocket.

... ;)

Glenn E. Meyer
June 10, 2006, 10:23 AM
Capt Charlie - it is almost always 90+ in San Antonio, that's way I carried a 50 flintlock pistol concealed - wait - that's another thread.

haha!

Anyway, shorts and one of my two J frames or my PM9 work plus a Delica. I've found - horrors - that the SW 432 is a very light and comfortable pocket gun - although I do give away the dreaded stopping power.

FLA2760
June 10, 2006, 03:28 PM
Hi
Hey Capt. Charlie
I always carry one of my knives in addition to mt Glock27. I also have a Kel Tec P32 loaded with one speer gold dot in the chamber and the magazine is loaded with Federal 91gr FMJ. The FMJ will give good penetration with the .32 ACP. The KT P32 has a good track record for being reliable. Mine has been 100% reliable and that is why I chose it over the Kel Tec P3-AT. This baby is like 11 0z loaded riding in my Desantis Nemisis pocket rig. :D This is for when the Glock is not an option. I live in Fl so it is Hot a good portion of the year. Here are the knives I recomend

http://www.coldsteel.com/folding-knives-gunsite-series.html

http://www.coldsteel.com/folding-knives-voyager-series.html

http://www.coldsteel.com/samase.html

http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_list.aspx?class=Black

KEL TEC FORUM
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

MEDDAC19
June 11, 2006, 08:32 AM
Capt Charlie

Is the top edge of that blade sharpened or just tapered? It is hard to tell from the photo. If it is sharp, as it appears, then it would be illegal for me to carry in my neck of the woods. No carrying double edged blades, daggers, etc, considered an offensive weapon. Very nice folder and light weight though.

Capt Charlie
June 11, 2006, 12:34 PM
Is the top edge of that blade sharpened or just tapered?
Tapered only, no edge on top. The actual edge and point though, are by far the sharpest I've ever seen on a new knife.

No carrying double edged blades, daggers, etc,
You might want to check on the legal definition of dagger in your area though; blades of this style are sometimes defined as such.

skeeter1
June 11, 2006, 01:50 PM
My Dad got me a nice 4" blade locking-blade hunting knife, brass frame, walnut grips and a sheath some 30+ years ago. It's always gone with me in the field or backpacing, and has done duty from eviscerating a shot goose to chopping firewood.

A good knife should be part of your kit.

Blackwater OPS
June 11, 2006, 03:41 PM
All of the Benchmades are a good choice, and my personal favorite is the CRKT M16 SRT 1*

Mikeyboy
June 12, 2006, 08:27 AM
I may not carry concealed 24/7 but I do have a 3" folder with me all the time. A knife is very lethal if you know how to use it and can also be very handy tool. Check local laws regarding type and blade lengths (www.packing.org has links). As someone else mentioned a small pocket gun like the P-32 is a decent first step if you decide to carry. While my P-32 is not 100% yet, the few times I carried it, just to try out the pocket holster, it was almost un-noticeable.

skeeter1
June 14, 2006, 06:07 PM
I don't usually cary it, but I have a little (2") knife that I occasionally take with me to open boxes. I went to packing.org, and here is what I found for Ohio:

§ 2923.12. Carrying concealed weapons.

(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
(3) A dangerous ordnance.

So, I guess a handgun (with a license) is legal, but my little knife isn't. Someone please tell me if I'm reading this incorrectly. Friggin' lawyers.

cmreinke
June 14, 2006, 07:10 PM
skeeter, you'll have to search Ohio law to find out the definition of a "deadly weapon", but in many states it depends on the length of the blade (often 4" or less is not considered a weapon in the eyes of the law). I carry a 2.5" folding knife on my belt all the time (whether or not I'm carrying my Glock), and basically only use it for opening boxes, etc. If anyone asks, its a tool, not a "weapon". However, if I ever need to I'll find a way to use it to defend my self. ;) Regardless, itz very easy to conceal a knife like that. Someone would have to almost strip search you to ever find it, but if you ever need it for self defense it's better than nothing.

-Charles

gdeal
June 14, 2006, 07:38 PM
I like that answer. :) And yes I use it to open boxes. But just in case needed for self defense...

dev_null
June 14, 2006, 07:42 PM
I made the decision that I wanted something more substantial than a folder since I can't yet CCW in TX and will be a student as well. (Incidentally, anyone know UT's regs on carrying?) I have several fixed blades, but the one I've been carrying is the CRKT First Strike (http://www.crkt.com/frststrk.html). (Yeah, I know it's made in Taiwan, but it fit my budget and size requirements, and I like the styling. We can't all carry 9" Rats or Striders, OK?) My only gripe so far is that the pommel was sharp enough that I had to sand it down a bit to get it to stop biting me. Other than that, no worries.

DanV1317
June 14, 2006, 09:55 PM
A knife is fairly dangerous if you dont have proper training with it (being used back on yourself). I think i might stick to mase.

Blackwater OPS
June 14, 2006, 10:04 PM
A knife is fairly dangerous if you dont have proper training with it (being used back on yourself). I think i might stick to mase.

While this is true, and I will always be the first one to say that weapons are pointless without training, I think that your statement applies to hand guns even more than knives. At least with a knife, you won't have anyone grabbing it away from you.

Mace will usually get back on you, even if you know exactly what you are doing, esp. outdoors. With no training mace could be the worst option, although in itself it is non-lethal if taken from you. Also the effect of Mace/OC/whatever CAN be overcome by a determined aggressor, whereas a person who tendons have been cut by a knife cannot ignore that fact. Truth be told, I would trust a knife to stop and attack with more certainty than a gun, at very close distance. Again however, proper training by a qualified instuctor is key, without it you might as well just run as fast as you can.

Double Naught Spy
June 15, 2006, 07:18 AM
While this is true, and I will always be the first one to say that weapons are pointless without training, I think that your statement applies to hand guns even more than knives. At least with a knife, you won't have anyone grabbing it away from you.

Mace will usually get back on you, even if you know exactly what you are doing, esp. outdoors.

I don't know, knives get grabbed away just as do guns.

MACE? Who has access to mace these days who isn't a cop? Mace was an aerosol version of CN or tear gas. Even the cops usually use pepperspray, not mace.

Blackwater OPS
June 15, 2006, 07:57 AM
I don't know, knives get grabbed away just as do guns.


Hard to grab a knife while some is holding it, esp. someone who knows what they are doing. Might get a little slippery.:rolleyes:

MACE? Who has access to mace these days who isn't a cop? Mace was an aerosol version of CN or tear gas. Even the cops usually use pepperspray, not mace.

Mace is also a commercial OC product/tradename. "Chemical Mace" used to be made by S&W about 40 years ago when it was all CN(well about 1%), but it is now a registered trademark of Mace Security International. It's like kleenex, it has become synomous with OC(pepperspray). It's not a great brand though (even if the "lipstick container" product is interesting), I prefer fox labs or saber red. I used the term Mace in response to the (misspelled) use by danv1317. Normally I just call it OC.

I don't know of any LE agencies who authorize CN gas, except for croud control.

Samurai
June 15, 2006, 08:41 AM
Earlier, someone had asked if anyone knew of any good training for self-defense knife techniques. The question got ignored, and I'd like to hit on it for a second...

Asking which martial arts system is the best for knife defense is like asking which company makes the best 1911! It's an endless debate, often futilely taken up by bored enthusiasts, resulting in lengthy discussion with very little result. Both questions have no answer, but here are my thoughts...

Of course, we all know that there is no "one system" that is best for knife defense. But, that's not the point. The point is, almost EVERY SINGLE martial arts system can be adapted to incorporate the use of a knife. Knives are not "weapons," in the same sense as a gun. Knives simply enhance the damage that you do with your REAL weapons... your hands. If you know how to throw a good punch, with good technique, proper body rotation/balance, and to the right target points on the enemy's body, then the addition of a knife to your fist will simply enhance the damage inflicted by your punch. THAT'S the proper way to use a knife.

Which training system is the best? There is no good system. But, I can say this without exception: If you are using a knife for self-defense (whomever you are!), then you need to train in a good empty-hand system. Learn to punch, learn to block, learn to grab and throw. If your instructer is knowledgable and willing to teach, then he/she will include training on knife use.

... and that's all I have to say about that... :D

Oh, and... uh... in most jurisdictions, carrying a concealed "weapon" depends upon your intent, i.e., whether or not you are carrying it specifically for the purpose of self-defense, or whether you are carrying it for some other reason. I carry my folder in case I get a hangnail, need to cut open a box or remove the tags from a new article of clothing. I most certainly do NOT contemplate using my 6" serrated "pocketknife" for self-defense! (hint, hint!)

Blackwater OPS
June 15, 2006, 08:46 AM
Proper knife training?

Great post, I fully agree. That said, Krav Maga is the best;)

Samurai
June 15, 2006, 09:26 AM
Yeah... Krav Maga is pretty good! Krav Maga is an Israeli system, and as martial arts styles go, Krav is VERY new. I watch Krav people, and I see elements of Karate, Aikido, Hapkido, Jujitsu, Mui Tai (sp?) and Grecco Roman Wrestling, among others. It seems like the Israelis brought several styles together and picked out the simplest and most reliable techniques from all of those styles, and they made one big system out of it. It seems to focus in controlling an oncoming threat, suppression of an attacker, and pressure-point strikes rendering an enemy unable (or unwilling) to continue use of his arms, legs, (lungs, heart...).

Man! I'd give my (nah! I'd give someone else's) right arm to train in Krav Maga! Right now, the Krav masters are still pretty much found on the West Coast, and around the military bases. I wish I knew someone (reputable) who taught it here...

Blackwater OPS
June 15, 2006, 09:35 AM
Yeah sorry man, Los Angeles is where it's at. BTW, any LEOs or military around LA PM me info on free LEO/Military only Krav Maga training at the national training center.

Capt Charlie
June 15, 2006, 11:48 AM
Click here (http://kravmaga.com/schoollocations.asp) for Krav Maga training centers throughout the US.

That said, this has great potential for a separate thread, but here it's sort of hijacking gdeal's thread. Let's keep this one on track, and if anyone wants to start a separate one, have at it.

CWO4USCGRET
June 15, 2006, 07:38 PM
Ohio:

§ 2923.12. Carrying concealed weapons.

(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
(3) A dangerous ordnance.

So, I guess a handgun (with a license) is legal, but my little knife isn't. Someone please tell me if I'm reading this incorrectly.

Have fun, I consider a knife to be a tool, not a weapon! Each jurisdiction is different; always check your local laws.

Back on-topic, I carry generally 24/7. There have been credible threats on my chosen profession, with a bounty offered by some drug dealers. I also usually have a knife (AT Barr Large EDC, AT Barr Folding Guardian, Mickey Yurco Claw Neck Knife, or one or two other customs). I also carry my keys on a Mickey Yurco Braided Lanyard, with 2 ounces of lead in a Kydex Pouch on the end of the lanyard.

I don't advocate breaking any laws; if your local laws say, need a permit...and you decide to carry a knife concealed, saying "So I can defend myself from an assailant" is usually (admissible in court) an invitation to a concealed weapons charge. Because you use it at work has a certain legitimacy to it...

Maser
June 15, 2006, 07:58 PM
I usually carry my fishing knife or bowie knife on me whenever I go out. I'm 16 and have no CCW permit (obviously), but the local LEOs here in my town say as long as I keep it sheathed and visible on my belt or belt loops then I wont get in trouble at all. They even made a joke saying that no one would try to bug me if they see a 15" blade sheathed clearly visible.

Now as far as carrying a gun. When I get my CCW permit I plan on getting a holster and NOT keeping the gun in my pocket. Too many things can go wrong such as the hammer getting caught on something.

Samurai
June 16, 2006, 08:36 AM
Like I mentioned earlier, most places, carrying a "weapon" is all about "intent." With guns, it's always presumed that you intend to carry it as a weapon. So, you've pretty much got to have a permit to carry a gun. (You can come into court and explain that the gun was unloaded, you were only transporting it, etc... But who wants to go through all that hassle?)

With knives, the line gets REALLY blurred when people carry it for "multiple purposes." Most states have length limitations, wherein if you carry a knife longer than the designated length, it is always presumed that you carry "with intent to go armed." But, it sounds like with Maser's jurisdiction, the key is "concealed." Some jurisdictions only prohibit the "concealed" carrying of weapons. Some other jurisdictions establish that if you conceal it, you intend to carry it with intent to go armed.

With knives, a good trick to remember is: Don't be a jerk. Most cops carry pocketknives. Most cops do not consider carrying a pocketknife to be a crime. So, as long as you are not "brandishing" a knife, i.e., waving it around and making people afraid of you, you should be ok.

And, if a cop stops you on the street, don't go reaching for it. That ALWAYS ends poorly.

FYI, here in Tennessee, I'm pretty sure the rule is a presumption to go armed when carrying longer than a 4" blade length. I can't, for the life of me, determine whether TN has a "fixed blade" law, limiting us to folding knives only.