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Doggieman
May 31, 2006, 02:11 AM
Did a search here, haven't seen this posted. Disturbing surveillance vid of cops being shot in a store.

They totally dropped their situational awareness.

http://www.jumpingpixels.com/sheriff.html

ahead
May 31, 2006, 04:05 AM
wow, why would they let that guy get so close to them without drawing their weapons. even if he wasnt armed, youd question his motive when he steps that close. i hate watching videos like this one, knowing that those people most likely had familys.

marlboroman84
May 31, 2006, 07:24 AM
I hate that this happened and I hope that if those guys got caught the cops that found them just shot them and killed them the same way they killed their brothers in arms, but they really let down their guard. There is no excuse for them to be that easygoing responding to that type of situation and leave that one guy totally alone. Sad what an error in judgement can really cost you.

bermo61
May 31, 2006, 07:57 AM
the first cop was frisking the guy at the right of the screen. The second cop was supposed to be vigilant for additional threats. Unfortunately he mistakenly wrote the second guy off as a potential threat which is what allowed him to get the drop on them. Since the second guy was obviously saying something while his buddy was being frisked, the second cop should have realized there was a possible threat there and been more aware. At the very least his hand should have been on his weapon. Also when he saw the gun he just froze...at the range he was at he should have gone for the gun as soon as he saw it.

A few more lessons can be learned here:

1. A typical technique of criminals is to have one person distract you while the second gets the drop on you. Be aware of all potential threats.

2. Anyone can potentially have a gun.

3. There is a reason why cops have you put your hands on the patrol car when frisking...the first cop did not do that. As such the second cop put his attention in the wrong place because the first guy was still a threat.

4. A mistake many people make including cops is that their firearms training does not include drawing from the holster. Things happen fast as we saw in the video and a gun in a holster does not save anyones life except the felons. Being able to shoot once the gun is out of the holster is only one part of what can ultimately save your life.

5. Hand to hand techniques would have overcome the other mistakes made in the video. Personal security is a layered approach not putting al your eggs in one basket.

Sadly this happened but the analysis of this video may save other lives.

Mike T
May 31, 2006, 08:29 AM
Any idea where this was?

Pointer
May 31, 2006, 08:58 AM
wow, why would they let that guy get so close to them without drawing their weapons. even if he wasnt armed, youd question his motive when he steps that close. i hate watching videos like this one, knowing that those people most likely had familys.

I hate watching videos like this one...
Because if it can happen to the professionals...
It can happen to anyone who carries...

But, then again, people who carry are probably more wary than this...

These LEO's forgot they had families!! :(

threegun
May 31, 2006, 09:43 AM
Aside from the obvious mistake in lowering his guard to the "customer" the officer serving as backup also made the mistake in retreating. As most of you know I am a big proponent of retreating while drawing and firing as I move to cover. In this case and most cases that are at contact distances, with the bad guy already pointing the gun at you, it is suicidal to retreat. When faced with this situation your odds of survival are better if you charge and get control of the weapon. A friend of mine ran sims drills and those who retreated had a 100 percent get hit ratio. Those who charged suffered only 60 percents with many of the hits in non life threatening areas.

If you fear this kind of situation get yourself some hand to hand, disarm, and grappling training. Here at my work we practice (far to rarely sadly) what we call going "psycho". It is nothing more than charging your attacker and fighting for the gun. The psycho name was born because A. charging a man with a gun pointed at you is crazy. B. Once we get on the bad guy we bite, head butt, gouge eyes, pinch testicles, scream, and just about anything else you can think of to win. Everything in our practice is run very slowly with only simulated contact so as not to injure your partner. It doesn't give you 100 percent reality but it does teach you to take what the bad guy gives while focusing on keeping his gun under control.

jcoiii
May 31, 2006, 12:20 PM
Threegun, exactly what i was thinking. He was not in the direct path of the muzzle while he was trying to grab the gun. It was only when he backed away that the gun was pointed at him.

Still terrible and glad the punks joined the officers later.

Harley Quinn
May 31, 2006, 12:38 PM
Explain your post please. How do you know they caught them?

Looks like it was security not cops.

HQ

NBT
May 31, 2006, 01:28 PM
This guy must've spent some time in the range or in the "hood" cause he is a good shot. It did appear he hit the retreating officer who was moving, with the initial shot square in the temple. :eek:

These cops were probably security guards cuz they are poorly trained. This incedent was 100% preventable. :mad:

threegun
May 31, 2006, 01:59 PM
For those who think that running backwards and hitting are impossible.......I got news for you.

Doggieman
May 31, 2006, 04:35 PM
I agree that once the gun is pulled and it's within arm's reach you have to go for it. That should have been an automatic response, because the cops did have at least a full second, maybe a little more, from the time they became aware of the weapon to when the guy started firing. But also it looks like the guy shoots both cops in the head while they were moving -- very good (or lucky) shots. Kind of freaky knowing some ghetto hoodlum is that effective with his weapon.

threegun
May 31, 2006, 04:48 PM
I still think it was luck. Look the second officer was moving and much further. Some of the finest shooters in the world could have easily missed a head shot on a moving target under that pressure. I am convinced that it was luck and not skill.

Harley Quinn
June 1, 2006, 08:19 AM
Could anyone understand what they were saying?

I must be missing something here, How do you know they were head shots?
If the original shots were head shots why would he have had to shoot them when they were down. I would think that was when they were head shots.

I am missing what you are seeing?

HQ

Doggieman
June 1, 2006, 02:59 PM
I think he was just making sure. The angle of the gun plus the way that both guys dropped indicates to me they were head shots. Getting hit in the shoulder or neck is not going to drop you to the ground like a sack of cement, especially if you're a cop IMHO.

FLA2760
June 1, 2006, 06:05 PM
Hi
that is totally f@#%^d up! sad. Why would anyone turn their back on this PR especially after he starts talking spanish to his running buddy. :confused: FRY EM!

jcoiii
June 2, 2006, 04:10 PM
HQ,

My fault. I misread a previous post which said that he "hoped that they got the same when they got caught." I missed the "hoped" part.

OneInTheChamber
June 5, 2006, 12:01 AM
They look like British cops to me, I don't believe they were armed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

chris in va
June 5, 2006, 12:11 AM
It is pretty odd they were wearing vests outside their t-shirts. I'm thinking outside the US as well.

NBT
June 5, 2006, 01:51 PM
It was outside the US, Ogrish reports this was in Puerto Rico if I remeber correctly. :eek:

Doggieman
June 5, 2006, 02:31 PM
I thought they were south american or something.

Hulbert
June 5, 2006, 03:29 PM
Not the UK - There hasn't been a case of 2 Brit cops being shot and killed in the same incident in almost 50 years.

Harley Quinn
June 5, 2006, 04:44 PM
They are pretty tacky looking for being USA Police.
I sure could not understand them.

HQ