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Striker1
May 22, 2006, 12:45 PM
I would like to hear all the various techniques being used. I was taught the complicated way, mag out between little finger and ring finger.

Any new and better ways being used now?

Thanks

JJB2
May 22, 2006, 01:33 PM
ummm..... when i run the first 6 rounds out the model 27 i just open the cylinder and pop in the speed loader with 6 more ........ close the cylinder and go...........

Striker1
May 22, 2006, 02:19 PM
That would be a reload as opposed to a tactical reload

poortrader
May 22, 2006, 02:25 PM
What's the difference between a Tactical Reload and a regular reload?

Blackwater OPS
May 22, 2006, 02:26 PM
Sounds like you have it down.

skeeter1
May 22, 2006, 02:44 PM
That being said, I've got a couple of Speedloaders, and if the unlikely event that isn't enough, then I'd pull out the rifles or the shotguns.

I'm not keen on trying to reload a semi-auto magazine. Maybe someone else here can give you better advice on reloading a magazine, but semi-autos are just not for me.

Striker1
May 22, 2006, 04:15 PM
I was referring to the method used to reload a pistol/rifle/carbine/shotgun before it is completely empty.

AirForceShooter
May 22, 2006, 05:05 PM
Drop the magazine and reload slowly in a hurry.
Usually with 2 or 3 rounds left in the first mag.

AFS

root
May 22, 2006, 05:21 PM
tactial reload is when you reload before your mag is empty. One example of a situation where this would be useful is if you were in a gunfight (where lots of rounds were going back and forth, fa!), you have some cover or a chance to reload, but you still have 3 rnds left in your mag, swap out your 3 rnd mag and put in a full mag. That way, you can continue to fire a full mag instead of 3 shots - then possibly running out of ammo at a bad time.

the important thing I remember with tactical reload is, don't let your partially full mag hit the ground, keep it! if you're in a situation where you're needing to reload and continue to fire / tactical reload, then you're probably going to need that extra ammo.

all that being said, it's probably fairly rare that an average joe would need to do it.

atlctyslkr
May 22, 2006, 05:26 PM
Another Revolver user here ....

Dump shells into pocket (used and unused) and pop in another speed loader.

If I still have time then I'll separate the used from the unused.

Being a private citizen if I have a chance to reload I'm going to be probably be thinking that this may be a good chance to put some distance between me and my attacker. Might be time better spent.

AKJD
May 25, 2006, 06:40 AM
You mentioned the mag between the ring finger and middle finger technique. I've seen this done where the new mag to be inserted is grasped between the middle finger and ring finger and the magazine to be removed is then grasped with the thumb and index finger. I prefer to grasp the magazine to be inserted with the thumb and index finger as I would if doing a speed reload (index finger is along the front of the mag with the tip of my finger touching the front of the top round) and then take out the magazine from the pistol with the middle and ring finger. Insert the full mag and store the fresh one in a pocket. Move your second full mag to the # 1 position on your pouch assuming a 2 mag pouch. (Some will move the full mag to the #1 position then store the partial mag in the # 2 slot) I have more control over the full mag when grabbed as described than with the full mag between the ring and middle finger and this way I always grab a mag from the pouch the same way every time.

Some people have a hard time with two mags in their hand at the same time and doing the Tac load under stress would only compound the problem. Another technique is to check to insure you have a spare, quickly take the mag out of the pistol and store, then secure the full mag from the pouch and insert. Most people can actually do this faster than the other technique.

Personally, I think the tactical reload is overstressed. Its a skill that you should know, but not as critical as speed reload and malfunctions drills.

The question is when and why do a tactical reload. You often hear "when there is a lull in the fight". If there is any chance that lead is still gonna be flying, I'll forego a tactical reload and do a speed reload when needed. I don't want to be caught without a mag in my pistol or two in my hand.

JD

Ares45
May 25, 2006, 09:41 AM
1-Check six o'clock for threats. If clear return to known threat and proceed...
2- Head up eyes on target always. If no cover is available then you need to be MOVING(!).
3- Bring weapon in close to your chest in a semi retention position just below line of sight (^^^eyes on target).
4- Locate fresh mag BEFORE you dump old one. Grasp fresh magazine between thumb and index finger. Dump spent mag into palm. RAM fresh mag home. Pocket or otherwise retain partial mag.
4.5-Are your feet still moving? If not, then you're dead.
5-Reengage.

Striker1
May 29, 2006, 08:21 PM
I was taught that way a loong time ago. I was wondering what the latest technique is. I never had that much faith in the method of juggling two magazines in the hand under stress either.

AS to immediate action drills...I am a firm believer in practicing those also.

Of course I would guess most folks don't 'cause it just ani't much fun

Sweatnbullets
May 29, 2006, 08:54 PM
Take out the partial magazine and stowe it away.

Insert new magazine.

No need to juggle, no need to be in a big hurry, keep it simple and get the gun up and running.

pickpocket
May 29, 2006, 09:46 PM
My preferred method for teaching the PISTOL tac-reload is to hold the fresh mag between the INDEX and MIDDLE finger of the off-hand, eject the semi-spent mag into the palm between thumb and index, then insert fresh mag.

My reasoning for holding the fresh mag between INDEX and MIDDLE finger is because that is the strongest grip for this application. Think of what happens when someone gets injured - your fingers CLASP, they don't extend. If you've got the fresh mag between the index and middle fingers you'll be much less likely to drop it if you suddenly tense up - for whatever reason. I've discussed this with some medical docs and they didn't have anything negative to say about it - whatever that's worth :)

As for its application in civilian settings.. I believe you have a much higher chance of using the Tac Reload than you do the Combat Reload. Think about it - if you've just put an unknown number of rounds into someone (or two someones) in an SD situation and the IMMEDIATE threat has been removed, it would be smart - if time/situation permits - to do a Tac Reload while surveying the area and looking for additional threats.

It doesn't make sense to me to eject the partially used mag before you have the new mag ready. If the object is to minimize the amount of time the gun is "down", then my thought is to keep the partial mag handy for as long as you can. The actual switch can be done in fractions of a second if you set it up correctly. Once the gun is back up with a fresh mag, it doesn't really matter how long it takes you to put that partially spent mag away.

Captain38
May 29, 2006, 09:55 PM
Despite much training to do it in other ways, when the Persian melon is about to hit the oscillator I'll do what Sweatnbullets says!

chemist308
May 30, 2006, 12:12 AM
What if you're a wheelgunner and don't have the swing out cylinder? Is have a spare cylinder a possibility? I recently picked up a Ruger Vaquero and I can pull the cylinder and put back it back in inside of 3 seconds.

Sweatnbullets
May 30, 2006, 12:38 AM
The KISS technique is exactly what I do with my AR also.

Commonality in training.

I have done them both ways, as pick pocket suggests and the KISS method. The juggleing method is fast but it degrades rapidly under stress. I have seen my mags hit the ground during timed skills test. The KISS method is very sure and only slightly slower.

A tactical reload should be performed after secondary threats are scanned for, and after you have moved to cover. No rush to tac reload, just be sure!

The adrenaline dump will be kicking in plenty good here....juggleing is tough with the tremors. Heck, it can be a challenge during a stupid timed test.:o

pickpocket
May 30, 2006, 12:56 AM
The stress factor deserves some conversation here, because I think it's important to remember that you're not going to want to do a tac-reload while BG #3 is fast approaching from your flank. No, it is after additional threats have been scanned for, as SnB stated. Inherently this means that even though the adrenaline will still be pumping, you're under NO severe stress to get the reload done in quickly. That's the nature of the Tac Reload - slow and easy, get ready for something else.
When I do a Tac Reload, I can take my sweet time pulling the fresh mag and getting it into position, pulling the weapon in close, and then the only thing that happens fast is the drop and slamming in the new mag. Once mags have been changed, I can take my sweet time finding a place to put that partial mag. It's all about economy of motion, and the whole drill shouldn't be run at light speed, coz if speed is that much of a factor then might I suggest that just getting the new mag in is more important and you might just drop the partial anyways..

If you practice effeciently it then it doesn't degrade so badly as one might think. If you find yourself stressed and you drop the mag, well ok - no worries. You just completed a hybrid Tac-Com (Tactical/Combat) Reload; There's still rounds in the first mag but you don't worry about retention. Why? Well, situation dictates. You might have another threat to worry about and you don't need to add mag retention to the equation.

SnB - If I'm reading you right, the ONLY reason I don't agree with the KISS method is that once you've dropped the partial mag you have nothing except one round until you get that fresh mag inserted. It's only a matter of seconds, so it's all about whether or not that's important to the individual deciding on the method. However, if something happens during those few seconds you will discharge the one round and risk forgetting to reload. Sounds silly, but I've spent a lot of time with people under this kind of stress (training and real) and you forget the silliest, dumbest, most obvious things.
I'm not saying I've never DONE the KISS Tac Reload, I'm just saying that I trained myself to pull the fresh mag first :)
Like I said, Situation/Time will dictate!!

Sweatnbullets
May 30, 2006, 01:06 AM
Pickpocket, the stupid timed tests that I did were probably not a very good idea. The mags hit the ground due to rushing a technique that simply should not be rushed. I'm sure I could do both methods under the effects of the adrenaline dump effectively, as long as I took the appropriate time.

Both ways are good. I try to do the KISS, but old habits die hard and I find the new mag in my hand before I have taken the old one out about 30% of the time. Reprogramming an ingrained skill is a b**ch.

We are not far apart.:)

Ares45
May 30, 2006, 01:49 PM
Take out the partial magazine and stowe it away.

Insert new magazine.

No need to juggle, no need to be in a big hurry, keep it simple and get the gun up and running.

I understand the inclination to avoid juggling mags but with practice (everyone does practice this stuff, right?) it's no longer juggling. Worst case scenario is an empty gun. Best case is topping off as fast as possible. Wost case you eject a partial mag from a perfectly good gun only to find that under stress you've used your reload already or lost it in the fight. With a full mag in hand before you eject the partial the gun is empty for the least possible amount of time. If you want to avoid juggling, feel free to drop the partial on the ground then recover it afterwards but ALWAYS grab your reload first.

Another thought spurred on by Pickpocket...Some handguns have a magazine disconnecter. I for one will not own a gun that won't fire without a magazine inserted. One round is better than none, just incase I'm interupted during a reload. Anyone who doesn't know about their gun should certainly find out.

Glenn E. Meyer
May 30, 2006, 04:32 PM
The dreaded comment in a thread like this is that no one has ever come up with a legitimate case where the tac reload has saved anyone.

Next, there seems to be no indication that a classic tac reload vs. the retention reload has ever made a difference - which of course is true if no one has ever been saved by any kind of tac reload.

Researchers who have looked for such cases can't seem to find a documented one.

Seems the slide lock reload is the thing that happens under stress. In matches, you can take advantage of the peculiar nature of the safety there with non shooting back opponents to tac reload.

I'd like to know a documented case of a tac reload in a police or civilian gun fight that made a difference.

PS - reloads with retention argue then for the guns without magazine safeties, so you have at least one round when futzing with the gun.

pickpocket
May 30, 2006, 06:41 PM
The dreaded comment in a thread like this is that no one has ever come up with a legitimate case where the tac reload has saved anyone.

It's not so dreaded, actually. It's just that everyone gets wrapped around the axle trying to prove why Tac Reloads are/aren't valuable that they always miss the forest for the trees, which is:
If you find yourself halfway through a magazine and aren't sure how many rounds you have left, why not drop it and put in a new one if you have time?

While I can't tell you of times when a Tac-Reload actually SAVED me, I CAN tell you of a few times where I would have been in a much crappier position had I NOT done a Tac-Reload.


Next, there seems to be no indication that a classic tac reload vs. the retention reload has ever made a difference - which of course is true if no one has ever been saved by any kind of tac reload.

Researchers who have looked for such cases can't seem to find a documented one.

Once again, I think that you're trying to cram the Tac Reload into the Combat Reload situation. If the need is dire and the bullets are flying, of course you're going to go to slide lock. I don't think any of us here are advocating trying a Tac Reload in the middle of a firefight - it just doesn't make sense.
As for the researchers, I can find you "researchers" who still think the world is flat :)


Seems the slide lock reload is the thing that happens under stress. In matches, you can take advantage of the peculiar nature of the safety there with non shooting back opponents to tac reload.

It's the context of the thing that matters - this has nothing to do with targets that don't shoot back.

{Open Hypothetical}
For example, let's say that you are attacked in your house. For the sake of argument, let's say that you have a 12 round magazine, and that you shoot two assailants at least three times a piece, but maybe more, you're not sure. What you DO know is that your slide is forward, so you have at least one round. You haven't come out of your bedroom yet, so you don't know whether the rest of your house is clear or not. Do you empty what rounds you have left into the wall or one of the assailants you've already shot so that you can go to slide-lock, or do you just drop the half-used mag and put in a fresh one?
{Close Hypothetical}


I'd like to know a documented case of a tac reload in a police or civilian gun fight that made a difference.

If you'd care to extend that to military I'd be happy to tell you of more than one instance where it was used.


PS - reloads with retention argue then for the guns without magazine safeties, so you have at least one round when futzing with the gun.

Tactical Reloads are for guns that don't have magazine safeties. Reloads with retention simply describe whether or not you keep the old mag, loaded or not. If someone's gun has a magazine safety then I would hope that they realize up front that the Tac-Reload just won't work for them.


This isn't an argument about Tactical OR Combat, the two methods are completely different tools with completely different applications. You're not going to find any instances where a Tac-Reload saved someone, because it's not really a "life-saving" skill.... it's a "preparedness" tool. You don't do a Tac-Reload in the heat of battle, you do it in a lull to get ready for what may be coming next.

What I know is that you aren't going to remember how many rounds you actually shot under stress. What I know is that I'd rather take a second during a lull to put in a fresh mag than end up two rounds into my next target engagement and go to slide-lock and have to do a Combat Reload while someone is shooting at me.

Let's think of it this way:

Tactical Reload = "Want to"
Combat Reload = "Have to"

Bob F.
May 30, 2006, 09:47 PM
Quickly!

Actually, current Combat Handguns has an article on reloads. Can't recall if tactical or OS; didn't read the article. Will continue to do as taught. Written instructions much more complicated than actual doing.

Also see brianenos.com!

Then practice, practice, practice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

Doggieman
May 31, 2006, 02:36 AM
Just hope you're not shooting a Garand when you decide you need to do a tactical reload!

pickpocket
May 31, 2006, 09:39 AM
If you're shooting a Garand, it doesn't really matter whether you want to do a Tac Reload or not :)

Glenn E. Meyer
May 31, 2006, 11:01 AM
Pickpocket - the point is that most of the reload argument is speculative. That's what you just spouted. Hypotheticals and what ifs. None of them are new in the analysis of the reloading debate.

One way to resolve such gun forum debates is to see what works under stress in real incidents or well designed studies (which have been used in many, many other stress situations). The gun world just prefers BS endless debates. Once a BSer decides their position is 'truth' - then they denounce the need for actual data or research. What a yawn!

If there was a true lull in the fighting - then the difference in the classic tac or retentiona would mean nothing but still folks blah, blah about it.

Like I said - the proof is in the pudding - let's evaluate cases where the different techniques actually did anything or a realistic simulation where it meant something for the police or civilian.

Also, if you are an expert - who are you? You claim many incidents. Time to share.

My point about the difference between mag safety guns and those without was that all the reload blather impacts gun choice - didn't you get that?

Striker1
May 31, 2006, 11:36 AM
Some of you guys are getting off the original subject. I didn't ask if you believed in the TAC reload, I asked what the current technique was among different trainer's.

Each individual can determine for themselves if it is a skill they wish to practice.

As for me, I don't think it hurst to have planned for this event. I may never need to do it, but then again I might.

pickpocket
May 31, 2006, 12:46 PM
Pickpocket - the point is that most of the reload argument is speculative. That's what you just spouted. Hypotheticals and what ifs. None of them are new in the analysis of the reloading debate.

Coincidentally, 95% of the tactics discussions are speculative in nature. You say that there are no new arguments; I agree. However, just because someone can't prove that something DOESN'T work isn't usually the best platform to argue against it. Proving a negative doesn't work out so well, logically.
The thread never asked for an analysis of the Tac Reload. Some people believe it's useful, some don't. That's the way of the world.


One way to resolve such gun forum debates is to see what works under stress in real incidents or well designed studies (which have been used in many, many other stress situations). The gun world just prefers BS endless debates. Once a BSer decides their position is 'truth' - then they denounce the need for actual data or research. What a yawn!

I'm not saying there's no need for research. My point is that while you're saying there's no proof that the Tac Reload holds benefit you should also realize that there's no proof that the Tac Reload has negative benefit, either.
This is a circular debate with no real universally accepted truth, and you had to know this going in.


If there was a true lull in the fighting - then the difference in the classic tac or retentiona would mean nothing but still folks blah, blah about it.

Truthfully - I don't believe there's much use for civilians to worry about magazine retention. Both the Tac Reload and magazine retention are really primarily specific to either combat operations or special tactics. However, there is some benefit to knowing what a Tac Reload is....if you care about it, that is. If not, then it doesn't really matter at the end of the day now does it?


Like I said - the proof is in the pudding - let's evaluate cases where the different techniques actually did anything or a realistic simulation where it meant something for the police or civilian.

Let us also then examine the evidence that supports that different techniques did NOTHING. You are firmly on the other side of the fence, so why do you feel the need to seek validation? Would it change your mind if the "proof" you seek suddenly appeared? I imagine not.


Also, if you are an expert - who are you? You claim many incidents. Time to share.

I'm no expert - just a guy who's still alive to tell his stories and has chosen to try to train others from his own experiences.
I spent two years kicking in doors and clearing houses. I have one 11-day continuous operation under my belt - so at the very least I understand the need to not drop your magazines all over the place because you might just want to reload some of them at some point. Suffice it to say that when you're not sure how many rounds you put through the last three guys and you have to kick in another door, you might want to put in a fresh mag - just in case.


My point about the difference between mag safety guns and those without was that all the reload blather impacts gun choice - didn't you get that?
But see, that's the disconnect. You imply that the choice of technique defines the tool. I say that a combination of tool, time, skill, and situation defines the technique.

Please do not take this as insulting, because that's not the intent here, but what I see is that I have formed opinions based on my experience and you seem to be forming them based on the lack of that same type of experience.
I'm not saying that your opinion is invalid, just that the experiences that have formed our respective opinions has been different.

At the end of the day, the Tac Reload is just another tool. It has its pros and cons, just like any tool. It will fail you if used at the wrong time or in the wrong situation, just like any tool. It will seem unecessary until you need it, just like any tool. The central concepts behind the Tac Reload are to minimize the amount of time your weapon is without a source of ammo and to retain the spent/partially spent magazine in case you might need it later. If we can agree that both of those may be important things to consider, then why does it matter what it's called?

threegun
May 31, 2006, 02:09 PM
I know its not a tactical reload but it is very impressive anyway.

http://www.break.com/index/quickload.html

tshadow6
May 31, 2006, 03:46 PM
Dump the empty mag while reaching for the fresh mag. slam fresh mag home, release slide stop. DO NOT SAVE EMPTY MAGAZINE. An empty magazine is worthless. If time permits, one may save a partialy loaded magazine. Also, do not waste time saving empty speed loaders, or empty brass. Dead cops have been found with empty speedloaders/brass in their hands, because that's how they trained. They didn't want to have to look for their empties on range day.

pickpocket
May 31, 2006, 05:12 PM
tshadow6 -
You have a point and I understand it quite well, but remember, this wasn't a discussion on the merits of Tactical vs. Combat reloading, simply a discussion of technique.

What you are pointing out is a "administrative" training issue, not a problem with application of a specific technique.

rezmedic54
May 31, 2006, 06:08 PM
Everyone here has already said it .What worked for me was to start slowly and very deliberately and just performing them over and over cause you know what they say is smooth is fast and so far has work for me. But heck just mt 2 cents. Be Safe Out There. Kurt

Archie
June 2, 2006, 03:52 PM
Stryker, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your desire here. Are you interested in gun handling skills for defense purposes, or are you dealing with shooting games? When I first read your initial question, I was thinking in terms of real world problems. If, however, you are discussing 'gun juggling' skills in order to shoot low times and win competitions, I can't help you.

However, and presuming a real time aspect, allow me this observation: Keep your gun loaded! Ammo is only of use when it is in the firearm.

One of the absurdities foisted upon shooters is the 'tactical reload with retention'. I suppose it's great to add in for 'competition' but I fail to see the real world significance. Sadly, it has been incorporated into law enforcement training; along with lower power, high capacity firearms in an effort to replace marksmanship with multiple attempts.

I quit shooting in 'combat' matches when the rulebooks went beyond about two pages, the guns grew - stuff and shooters turned into 'athlete competitors'.

But I think I'm digressing. Forgive the rant.

Striker1
June 2, 2006, 04:23 PM
Archie,

My desire was to know what was being taught out there in other agencies/schools? At no time did I intend this thread to turn into an argument pro/con onthe issue.

As I said previously, I will leave it up to individuals to decide the worthiness of the technique.

Regards

Archie
June 2, 2006, 06:16 PM
Well, just for the record, the agency for which I work (one of the large federal ones) teaches 'combat' and 'tactical' reloading.

"Combat" reload is from an empty gun; 'tactical' is with retention.

Koz
June 2, 2006, 06:37 PM
like this

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/2558.html

David Armstrong
June 12, 2006, 07:26 PM
I'm not saying there's no need for research. My point is that while you're saying there's no proof that the Tac Reload holds benefit you should also realize that there's no proof that the Tac Reload has negative benefit, either.
And with that we see the failure of so many to understand the problem that the tactical reload creates. Yes, there is plenty of evidence that it has a lot of negative benefit if your concern is actual gunfighting situations. First, it is more prone to problems than any other standard reloading technique. Second, it is slower than any other standard reloading technique. Third, it takes time away from what is for most a very limited amount of training time, time that could be better utilized learning and/or perfecting a technique or skill that might actually help one survive the fight. so there is a fair amount of negative to it, with absolutely no proven benefit.

As Glenn pointed out, if the tactical reload mattered at all outside of long-term military-like operations somebody, somewhere, sometime, would have found an instance where it made a difference. The fact that nobody has ever done so is pretty tellilng.

BobK
June 12, 2006, 08:30 PM
I don't like them either. But if your going to do it then do the following:

1. FIND COVER.
2. Check six all around back to six.
3. Keep the gun at chest level.
4. Release the mag and put in your pocket, as your hand comes up grab the new mag and load it in the gun.

Other things to consider:

1. Does your gun have a magazine disconnect?
2. How many mags do you have on you? Is it time to split or stay and fight?
3. What if your wounded? Now what?
4. How many bad guys are still standing?
5. A New York reload is faster.
6. Carry your spare mag in a decent mag carrier. Not a pocket.

Some disagree with the tactical reload and some don't. If you choose to do so, practice until your blazing fast.

pickpocket
June 13, 2006, 06:22 PM
And with that we see the failure of so many to understand the problem that the tactical reload creates.
Honestly, it's really a matter of a failure to understand the application of a technique. If a technique is understood, then one could figure out where and when to apply it; if it is not understood, then there will be no right time to apply it. A Tac Reload is not meant to be fast - if you wish it to be so then you do not understand the application. Survival is a matter of choosing the right tool for the right situation, and anyone who believes that there are tools unworthy of learning is only limiting themselves and their options.

I find the notion that people can't afford to learn more than one thing absurd.

I would much rather walk through life having learned a skill that I never had to use than find myself wishing too late that I had learned it.

David Armstrong
June 14, 2006, 12:17 PM
If a technique is understood, then one could figure out where and when to apply it; if it is not understood, then there will be no right time to apply it.
We'll disagree. I understand the technique just fine, I can execute it without any trouble, and so on. My point is that if one claims that a technique has value as it relates to a problem one should be able to provide some evidence of that value. To date, nobody has been able to do that with the tactical reload. It provides nothing that is not provided as well as or better by other techniques, and has a distinct downside.
I find the notion that people can't afford to learn more than one thing absurd.
As do I. But that is not the case here, is it. To learn to use a gun well one has to learn many things. Why waste your time learning something that has no value other than to possibly keep some dirt out of the magazine?
I would much rather walk through life having learned a skill that I never had to use than find myself wishing too late that I had learned it.

And I would rather walk through life knowing that I had spent my time learning skills of value that might be important when used instead of wasting my time learning a skill with no unique value in itself and shares value with other techniques that have more applicability. Don't get me wrong, if you want to spend time learning a range skill that has no value off the range, go for it. Just do not attempt to justify that with some claims of value in the real world of defensive firearms use.

pickpocket
June 14, 2006, 12:48 PM
Don't get me wrong, if you want to spend time learning a range skill that has no value off the range, go for it. Just do not attempt to justify that with some claims of value in the real world of defensive firearms use.

Then again, maybe it's me who just needs to remember who his audience is. No insult intended - but I tend to view things from an operator's perspective. I refuse to boil my defensive training down to the bare essentials because I know what has been valuable in my own experience.

You're right - we'll just agree to disagree.

Striker1
June 16, 2006, 08:43 AM
Pickpocket,

Where di you first learn the Tac reload?

pickpocket
June 16, 2006, 09:08 AM
First learned it in the Marine Corps, with an M-16, and where magazine retention is stressed primarily because of extended operations and little chance of finding a supply depot out in the desert to issue new magazines.

Since then, I've found at least one shooting system that takes the time to explain a variation on the traditional Tactical Reload - which is synonomous with "magazine retention".
The C.A.R. system explains this variation as a Tac-Com (Tactical/Combat), which is simply a hybrid of the traditional definitions of both Combat Reload and Tactical Reload.

Many people here arguing against the Tac Reload have a very valid point - sometimes magazine retention becomes the primary focus to the exclusion of the real goal: topping off your mag without running to slide-lock. In all honesty, it just doesn't make sense to say "I will ALWAYS retain my magazine". Sometimes, you're just going to want to make sure there's a full magazine in the weapon and you're not going to care about where the old one falls.
I hear and agree with the arguments that always worrying about where your spent mags are will end up badly for you one day. But, then again - do ANY of us here advocate ALWAYS doing something the same way, or do we prefer to adapt to the situation? Same here.

Koz posted a video earlier in the thread and stated that the example wasn't a Tac Reload. Maybe not, but it certainly does fit the description of C.A.R.'s Tac-Com...dropping a used mag in favor of a new one but not worrying about retention.

Striker1
June 16, 2006, 11:22 AM
I also learned with the M-16. We always had to try and keep the mag on us, but if it was dropped we were told to forget about it.

M9 was taught the classic version but never did it during the course basic of fire, however, during advanced courses of fire, we practiced 1 hand, weak hand, rapid, and tactical reloads.

These are all techniques I taught for 10+ years.

Moloch
June 16, 2006, 05:50 PM
How do you do Tactical Reload?

Quick.