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Eghad
May 12, 2006, 01:20 PM
I was catching up on my reading of the Army's NCO Journal, since I am retired now I usually lag behind in my reading. This April issue for the 2nd Quarter contains an article on killing and dealing with it. Thought it made some valid points..

it featured a LTC (Ret) David Grossman, who was also the guy who wrote the stuff with video games and killing...he has his own web site. My jury is still out on the video games and killing connection.

However, he seemed to have some valid points on the psychology of killing.

http://www.killology.com/

Here is a link to the NCO Journal, but the April issue isnt up yet :( . They also had an article on combatives.

https://www.bliss.army.mil/usasma/usasma-NCOJournal.asp

NukemJim
May 12, 2006, 08:24 PM
My jury is still out on the video games and killing connection.

The more I read on this subject the more I believe most of his observations on the connection between video games and the real world violence
.
In his book "On Combat" he goes into the subject more than "On Killing" . I want to read his other book "stop teaching our children to kill" (IIRC, could have mangled the title).

I do not think ( nor does Grossman say ) that video games are the only factor, but I now (unfortunetly) think that they and televison/movies are a important factor.

NukemJim

Eghad
May 12, 2006, 08:33 PM
I play computer games but I dont get the urge to go and kill anyone, but I am an adult not a child. I too think there are more factors than just playing video games. If violent video games were the only reason we would be having multiple shooting sprees out the wazoo. I did not have video games growing up as a young child. We had friends and stayed outdoors a lot. My first game was pong...lol.

I think that if you have other factors that cause a kid to be short of a deck of 52, then video games could be a component. I didnt mean to start a discussion on video games and killing.

Mr. Meyers touched on this subject in one of his threads...it had a few good methods of dealing with PTSD I thought.

Glenn E. Meyer
May 13, 2006, 09:43 AM
The problem with gun lists is that they tend to see the world as 0,1 situations (not that others don't do that).

I played video games and I'm OK. However, as others pointed out above, it's more complex.

From reading the literature on this, it is fairly clear that video games, media, etc. can prime or cue aggressive thoughts. What else is new? Watching sexy videos make people feel aroused and tragic movies make us sad.

But do such displays lead to violence? Not by themselves, you have to have a person with biological, learned and social cognitive factors - all interacting -which might lead them to act violently. You probably have to have some preciptating incident. Then the video games, etc. can channel or guide the action. They suggest how to do something and reinforcing that the aggression is justified.

You get clusters of suicides in teens. In fact, having large memorials and counselors appearing at a school after a suicide can promote them. Same with school shootings.

The point is that watching such doesn't guarantee that everyone becomes violent. Those with the factors leading to aggression might and that is a small proportion of society.

Usually, these are trouble kids or adults and their problems have been ignored or mistreated.

Do we ban all of these as we might set off a few? That's the problem of the BOR - we just can't control those pesky people.

Folks want to sanitize society. Righties get tightie about sex - the Wizard of Oz promotes Satan! Lefties are down on depictions of violence. Both groups would throw away the BOR because of their own nutiness.

Koz
May 13, 2006, 12:59 PM
art imitates life, not the other way around

NukemJim
May 20, 2006, 06:32 PM
Do we ban all of these as we might set off a few? That's the problem of the BOR - we just can't control those pesky people.

Actually I do not believe it is a problem with the BOR, nor has anyone (Prior to you) mentioned banning.

Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler and X-rated videos. etc..... are not banned. People are allowed to buy and to own, as long as you are or legal age i.e.18.

NukemJim

Glenn E. Meyer
May 21, 2006, 10:29 AM
Suggestions to ban materials based on sex, violence or religious content are common in today's society.

I seem to remember quite a few court cases about such. Certainly in my life time, books were banned on sexual content.

As I said before, restrictions of materials to children may make some sense (it is an empirical question as to their influence). However, the folks who would ban such for kids would be quite happy to ban such for everyone.

Let's not be naive here.

NukemJim
May 22, 2006, 07:07 PM
However, the folks who would ban such for kids would be quite happy to ban such for everyone.

Yes, I agree with you on that they would be happy to ban such for everyone. IMHO those are also the people who would like to ban Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, XXXvideos,**** on the net etc... they have not been very succesful now have they?

From my understanding the average age of gamers is now into the mid 20's. How many books are currently banned for adults ? Not too many that I can think of if you exclude KiddyPorn, Necrophelia (SP?) and Bestiality ( and you might be able to get bestiality I am not sure and do not realy want to know:barf: .)

Let's not be naive here.

So is it naive to have an age limit for Alcohol, driving, ****, firearms, credit cards etc... There are many things that society has chosen to limit childrens access to without making such things banned for adults.

NukemJim

PSI have been called many things in my life, it's been several decades since anyone has accused me of being "naive":)

NukemJim

JohnKSa
May 22, 2006, 07:27 PM
I play computer games but I dont get the urge to go and kill anyoneMost of the criticism of Col Grossman's work comes from people who obviously haven't read it.

He never says, or even implies, that first person shooter games make people want to kill, only that it desensitizes them to committing violence to one extent or another. The result isn't that the video game player wants to kills or commit violence, only that when a juvenile video game player gets very frustrated or angry about something or someone, he's less likely to to immediately dismiss violence as a possible solution.

One of his primary premises (which he supports quite well) is that most people naturally have a very strong aversion (bordering on being a phobia) to committing potentially lethal acts against others. His further premise is that the aversion can be weakened by various methods, one of which is first person shooter video games.

Given that this kind of therapy is now being used to help treat other phobias/strong aversions, I think it's hard to argue against his point.

CabinJohn
May 23, 2006, 12:43 PM
That's the problem of the BOR - we just can't control those pesky people.

OK - I give up. What is the BOR?

Glenn E. Meyer
May 23, 2006, 03:14 PM
Sorry - Bill of Rights.