View Full Version : Quest for NYC shotgun comes to an end ?
April 23, 2006, 03:44 AM
Hi, in a previous post, I wanted a mean looking shotgun, "as if an assault team came in the door looking for a meth lab" as in very intimidating.
Thanks all who replied, One of the suggestions was a maverick 88 security.
I really liked the look of that one.
Maverick 88 Security 6 shot model: The MSRP on the site said $199. That is dirt cheap ! ?
Or do you think for 7 dollars more $206 MSRP I should get the 8 shot model ?
Thanks for reading.
April 23, 2006, 04:14 AM
When it comes to shotguns, I wouldn't look for bargain basement. I would get a Remington 870 Police.
April 23, 2006, 04:30 AM
really :) ? I think this does look rather cool too ! $340 ? REMINGTON 870 EXPRESS 12/18/3" SHOTGUN SYNTHETIC STOCK
the police series u mentioned are kinda pricy... at over 400 dollars with some 500 and + ! :eek:
is there an advantage of the remingtons over the lesser priced maverick 88 ? I saw the maverick featured at the box o truth site here : http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm, it cant be that bad can it?
April 23, 2006, 10:01 AM
I know, move out of the hood and don't worry about it.
April 23, 2006, 11:34 AM
I was told that any of the big manufacturers would do..Meaning Mossberg, Remington and Benelli. And, I believe boxotruth said it was a Mossberg Maverick..So, if thats what you want, thats what you want.
Alot, of people love their 870s though including me:)
April 23, 2006, 01:28 PM
I love my Mossberg 590 model 50665. 8 shot capacity, 20" barrel, front bead sight only (I don't dig the whole ghost ring thing), speedfeed stock (a huge plus), and parkarized finish. I couldn't be happier. I think Bud's Gun Shop (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/46285) has a good deal going right now.
April 23, 2006, 04:45 PM
can anyone tell me if there really is $140 dollars worth of difference between the security 88 6 shot vs the reminington 870 express ?
if no, I'll buy the security, if yes, I'll buy the 870 express, they both look pretty cool, unfortunately there are only two gunstores near me, both stock very little. mostly just some handguns in a display case.
April 23, 2006, 08:09 PM
Any of the Big Four will do the job. But, 95% of the "Serious" shotguns used in this country are 870s. They just keep working.
A couple days ago, I took a couple shots with my HD 870. Nothing amazing about that, but I've had this one since 1959. It was made in 1950, first year of production. At least 15K of shells have gone through it, used it for everything from geese to 3 gun. No glitches.
Cleaned, stored and cherished. My grandkids and great grandkids to come will be glad I took care of it.....
April 23, 2006, 11:38 PM
all i know is i took a 590 to a tactical shotgun course.
we shoot a total of 800 rnds, (bird, 00buck & slugs) over 4 days.
i didn't clean, oil, adjust anything at the course.
when i got home and cleaned all of the dust, weeds, dirt, lead, fouling & just plain old dirt out of it. i was amazed that just like the energizer bunny it just kept going and going.
if the 590 is anything like the 500, i would think that it would be allright
April 26, 2006, 11:01 AM
an M-590A1 or 870Police is what I have, just remember no Pistol grips, folders or pistol gripped stocks! God forbid they should see these "evil features" and revoke your rifle permit.:barf:
April 26, 2006, 05:04 PM
I am not overly into HD guns that hold 8 shots, pistol grips, sidesaddles and the general Rambo mentality.. But, if you are "serious" about a gun get a Remington,, if you want just "cool" get anything that suits you and is cheap. It might even work when the chips are down, but then, maybe for only one shot in your running gun battle with a BG that thought you were an easy mark because you weren't home. I would sure like to see an article on how many people really get into a 3,4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 shot skirmish with a robber etc. I usually get flamed by the Rambo's in here for my attitude, only because it makes sense and it hurts the "macho" immage some want to portray. If you can't hit a BG with the first shot, what the hell makes you think he isn't a better shot than you. He may just take you out while you are trying to pump your shotgun. What happens if you get winged with his shot and you have only one hand available, bet you would wish you had a semi auto you could fire one handed. Being prepared "in the event" makes sense, being a movie star Rambo, is simply stupid. Some of you guys run off at the mouth about doing this or doing that, I bet there isn't 10 of you that ever had any real training on the subject. I was also a Sheriff Deputy in Wayne County, NY for several years, and managed to somehow get by with just a standard Remington 870, standard stock and all. I did get some intense training and some of it was OJT. As I said, reasonable preparedness is good, the BS gets deep in some of these threads.
April 26, 2006, 06:27 PM
Hi sheriff, My training is from the US Army, infantry. fort benning Georgia. We trained with firearms, grenades, mines, hand to hand, and a short session with a bayonet with the idea that if in these modern times, we still have to use a bayonet, things have gone seriously, seriously wrong.
I like a macho, looking gun, just because I'm into cool looking things, of course if the decoration deteriorates performance then of course not, but if all else equal, why not have a cool looking gun? of course cool being defined as how you like your stuff, as an individual.
Some people think wood grain is cool, I prefer black. I like the tactical look, and I prefer woodland camo and think the new digital BDUs look awful.
We all have our preferences, and mine is mean looking. with functionality being priority.
By all means, your post made it sound like as if the Maverick Security 88 is not a good weapon and might fail.
you made it sound like remington made shotgun will not fail. If this is indeed the case, I would get the one that works when I need it to.
Is that what you are saying ? that the 199 dollar maverick security 88 is not a good gun ? / weapon ?
April 26, 2006, 07:08 PM
guys that feel they have to call anyone that doesn't prefer a wood gun a "Rambo", or guys that even say "Rambo" for anything on TFL!:rolleyes:
April 26, 2006, 07:16 PM
I too spent some time at Ft Benning in the 60's in the 101st Airborne. Ramboism is a mental state backed up by immagination of things that make you feel good,but not necessarily things that are real world. If you want a Mossberg.. go for it.. I could care less. The bottom line I guess is that there has been tons more Rem's made than Mossbergs, most Police departments use them including the military. I have no idea of why, except for whatever testing they do to determine the "best". You like inexpensive Mossbergs over a more expensive Remington.. God bless you...Actually I don't even care as my HD gun is a Rem 1100 which I can fire one handed.
April 26, 2006, 07:23 PM
Pistol grips and side saddles don't take any functionality away from a standard shotgun, so what's wrong with them? In fact, why did cops go to semi auto handguns and get rif of the revolver? I mean, gun fights are usually over in less than 3 shots (retired NYPD here, I know what I'm talking about).
It's called progress. If I can have 8 shots at the ready (7 more than I'll PROBABLY need), I'll take them. Doesn't cost any more to be more prepared.
April 26, 2006, 07:32 PM
Well if the Police went to semi auto handguns,,,, why does everybody say you need a pump shotgun as opposed to a semi auto shotgun? Doesn't seem to fit. So if most gunfights are over in 3 shots,, what is the reason for sidesaddles and 8 round magazines??And if it is 7 more than you need,, what is the argument with my statements????? pertaining to Rambo mentality?????
April 26, 2006, 08:51 PM
hey sheriff, no wonder you keep referring to "rambo" you old ! ha ha ha...
I cant even remember the movie, I saw it on free TV as a kid.
you said "Actually I don't even care as my HD gun is a Rem 1100 which I can fire one handed."
Fire a Rem 1100 one handed ? Whos RAMBO now ? I can imagine you with one in each hand, shooting, and screaming "DIE" at the top of your lungs. ( kidding )
"I too spent some time at Ft Benning in the 60's in the 101st Airborne."
I dropped by there once, (didnt go airborne) but they had the cutest prettiest houses with little white picket fences and everything ! Those houses were small, dont know if they had them in the 60's but it was 97, and those houses were damn cute. ( for serene mind maybe? )
but is the maverick really unworthy to own ? Does it suck so bad ?
April 26, 2006, 09:59 PM
Hey,, I am old,, so I have seen a lot too. I don't remember any white picket fences per se. As far as firing my 1100 one handed, it was in reference to being wounded and only having one hand to shoot with,, pumps take 2 hands to operate,, semi's can be operated one handed if necessary. Mossbergs are fine, I just prefer Remingtons because of a lot of personal experiences with 870's and 1100's and limited time with Mossbergs. I look at the fit and finish of the 2 and the Remingtons exhibit better fit of the wood and better finish to the metal. Maybe that is why the Mossbergs are so cheap.. Not a lot of attention to detail, so I have to wonder if the lack of fit and finish spills over into quality, which is part of fit and finish,, and maybe the intrenals with the same attitude of quality.
The houses you refer too may have been Officer quarters. I doubt they were BOQ though,
By the way,, I am no longer in Law Enforcement. I gave it up several years ago, I got tired of the BS and lawbreakers having more rights than their victims. Pissed me off, it still does,, but we have to be politically correct,,don't we,,,, heaven forbid we did something a court (read Lawyers) to a child rapist,someone that killed your Mother or worse, that violated his civil rights. I had enough of the BS and simply got out,, lots of us LEO"s doing that. Thank your Liberal system for that. Sorry, I just got on a rant tonight,, something hit a nerve and pi$$ed me off.
April 26, 2006, 11:28 PM
as you can see on my signature, I own one. I love it! I just think a shotgun should be able to take a beating and I dont like to have a wood stock on my gun that shows the beating I have given it! That's all. That doesn't mean I'm Rambo.
April 27, 2006, 12:35 AM
Im a little suspect of people who jump out of perfectly good aircraft ;)
April 27, 2006, 05:40 AM
Ruger, I was being sarcastic with the police analogy. Cops went to semi auto's because the criminals were carrying them and 16 rounds are better than 6. I'd rather have 8 rounds and only need 1 then have 3 rounds and need 4. Since it's a long gun that doesn't get carried, I'll take all I can get. My carry gun is a 5 shot J frame, because it's so easy to carry. My high capacity semi auto's hardly get any belt time, because nothing is as easy as putting that J frame in my pocket. A 3 shot semi-auto is no smaller than a 8 shot pump, so I'll take the pump. Will I ever need 8 shots? I highly doubt I'll need 1.
April 28, 2006, 08:11 PM
This may or may not be relevant, but here goes: I have a Maverick 88 I bought about 15 years ago. The newer ones are a bit better (I think), but I'd pony up the cash for the 870. I know that my well-used and a little abused Maverick is worth less than a box of shells, so it rides in my trunk. My preferred shotgun is in the house. Now 15 years later, I know I used that extra $100 or whatever on something I'm sure I needed at the time, but I don't know what that is - yet I still have the Maverick. Know what I mean?
April 28, 2006, 09:45 PM
To me it depends on how much you intend on shooting the weapon and how much you are willing to spend. If money is a problem, and you won't shoot more than 25 rounds a month...the 88 is decent. If you will be shooting a lot, and you plan on beating the crap out of it...the 870 is a better gun.
The Maverick is known to have the safety screw come loose, button falls off and detent ball is lost. The ejector screw is also known to back out of the alloy frame...LOCTITE! Maverick also uses a plastic trigger housing assy that is held in place with one pin. I have seen the entire assy wear out and need replaced...dosent happen often.
The 870 is rock solid with its trigger housing being metal along with a steel frame and safety button located behind the trigger. I'd go with Big Green.
BTW, I was in Benning from 1992-1994 and was also Airborne qualified. Anyone that has ever landed in a C-130 or C-141 more than once would know your almost better off jumping. :) ;)
May 5, 2006, 03:50 AM
I'm convinced... The 870 express is whats it gonna be !
May 22, 2006, 03:03 AM
I shot one of those at a trap field a while back. It was a rental. It worked. Kinda felt loose though. Every thing jiggled a bit. Thats Mossbergs cheap gun isn't it?
Maybe a Mossberg 500 would be better. I like to stay away from the bottom line in guns.
Or you want tactical.... look at Mossberg 590. That should do ya.
May 22, 2006, 08:11 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/pezo/redocollection1-6-06.jpg I like my 590-a1. it's a tack diver with rifleled slugs.
May 22, 2006, 09:38 PM
I have NO IDEA of why I respond to some of these posts.. It is obvious that there are those of you that have never had any training, experience or confrontations know a LOT more than me.. I bow to you knowledge and experience. Just dream on......
May 23, 2006, 02:36 AM
Mossbergs are fine beginners guns, they are cheap, and generally work. I see alot of kids getting Mossberg 500s. Later on, when they grow up, they buy Remingtons.:D
Then they sell beat up Mossbergs and get $100 if they are lucky. Or, mostly just stick 'em in a closet somewhere, as they don't move real well on the used market, at least, around here.
May 23, 2006, 06:47 PM
Sorry we're not as trained as you are, Ruger. For what it's worth, my 20 years carrying a Remington 870 makes me qualified to talk about shotguns. Why do you care what someone else wants to have in there home for home defense? As long as they train with it to become comfortable with it, it's fine by me.
May 23, 2006, 07:08 PM
Homerboy: If you are a retired LEO, you have my gratitude also. I know what it is like being one. My point is simply, you must have had some Court time in SD situations at some time in your 20 year career. What is the Prosecuter going to do with a person in Court with a tricked out shotgun, black, pistol grips, sidesaddles etc.. He is going to make mince meat out of the guy defending himself and convince a Jury he is nothing but a guy hoping to have someone break in to his Castle just so he can shoot at him. A Jury will be a lot more sympathetic with the guy having just a standard model shotgun that they might even have, over the, and I hate to use the term again.. Rambo mentality and gun..Personally, I really don't care if you have a Big 50 for SD. I just think some of the people that think it is gonna fly in Court would open up their eyes and maybe actually look into some public records concerning SD events. Read some transcripts, see what is the law and not some TV show's idea of the lawand the Legal system. Hell on TV the bullets even spark hitting dirt. My rant is over, I wish all of you that think a Court is going to look at your guns with a forgiving eye,, hell who knows, they might,,, then again,, maybe not
May 25, 2006, 10:24 PM
He is going to make mince meat out of the guy defending himself and convince a Jury he is nothing but a guy hoping to have someone break in to his Castle just so he can shoot at him. A Jury will be a lot more sympathetic with the guy having just a standard model shotgun that they might even have, over the, and I hate to use the term again.. Rambo mentality and gun..P
Maybe, maybe not. If you have a reasonable explanation for every modification made, it shouldn't matter one bit. It could easily lead to the jury being educated about the issue of self-defense and why you put a light, side saddle etc. on the weapon.
If you can't reasonably articulate everything involved in a shooting, then you're screwed whether you're "Rambo" with a custom autoloading shotgun or Barney Fife with a .38 and a single bullet.
Your weapon choice won't keep you out of prsion; your ability to get and keep the trier of fact on your side will.
May 26, 2006, 11:50 AM
My point is simply, you must have had some Court time in SD situations at some time in your 20 year career. What is the Prosecuter going to do with a person in Court with a tricked out shotgun, black, pistol grips, sidesaddles etc.. He is going to make mince meat out of the guy defending himself and convince a Jury he is nothing but a guy hoping to have someone break in to his Castle just so he can shoot at him.
If you can find a single example where the configuration of the weapon was used against a defendent in a home defense case, you will have performed quite a useful public service. Folks on rec.guns and various gun forums have been searching for such a precedent-setting case for at least five years, probably longer.
May 26, 2006, 12:55 PM
Forgive them Ruger4570 for they know not what they do.
May 26, 2006, 05:49 PM
The only differerence between a bargain barrel maverick and mossberg 500 is the way the internal configurations are and the quality of the parts.
A maverick good gun but wouldnt stand up to a whole lot of abuse.
A mossberg 500 excellent gun cheap but still wouldnt take alot of punishment due to the plastic trigger assembly and plastic peices in the gun.
A Mossberg 590 is a whole different story it has quality metal peices inside as well as outside it still uses an aluminum body but the only thing different from a metal one is that its lighter.
A mossberg 590-a1 what the military uses has a heavier barrel and tougher finish then the 590 and since the barrel is thicker you cant put a heat sheild on it.
Remington 870 Express quality gun in same league as the mossberg 500 only real difference is the 2 dimples at the end of the magazine tube which wont allow you to add a mag extension unless you push them out or grind them down.
Remington 870 police magnum used by 95% of LEA pretty much the same as the 590a-1 other than the receiver was cut out of a sold bar stock of steel has a heavy barrel and is parkerized so it stands up to abuse and doesn thave dimples in the mag tube so you just haft to screw on the mag extension. Also the 870p comes in 18" barrel and the a1 only comes with a 20"
The only real difference between the 590a-1 and the 870p is where the saftey's are located,Mossberg on the top and the remington in the back of the trigger- and what the recievers are made of Remington steel , Mossberg aluminum.
Along the line of accesories I dont know your local laws but here in the free states were allowed to put on mag extensions and folding stocks which are impossible to attach on a maverick but on the rest the accesories are limitless.
May 26, 2006, 06:23 PM
forgot to add the remington is available with rifle sites and bead
the mossberg a-1 is only available with ghost ring sites and open sites and on anything less than the a-1 only standard bead sites are available.
May 27, 2006, 07:05 AM
No offense taken, Ruger. I can honestly say I have never seen a prosecutor use the weapon's configuration in their case, unless the weapon was modified illegally. Putting on a sidesaddle or pistol grip is quite legal, and even if a lawyer tried to use it, the judge would rule it not relevant and have it stricken from the record.
Of course, we all know that lawyers are scum and will try every trick in the book to win their case, and even when a judge says to disregard something, you can't go into a juror's mind and erase it.
Bottom line is that if I ever shoot someone (God forbid), as long as my weapon is legal and I act withing the confines of the law, I feel confident I'll beat the case, if the DA even bothers to bring one.
This whole thread reminds me of my liberal sister in law. She sees my AR-15 one day when she was over when I opened up the safe to get something else in there. She goes 'Oh my God, why do you have that assault weapon?" I ask her why she thinks it is, and she reply's "Just look at it".
Then I show her the wood Mini-14 I had borrowed from my friend because I was toying with the idea of buying one, and ask her what she thinks about this one. She says" Now that one is OK". I tell her it fires the same bullet and has 30 round mags just like the AR, and she says "yeah, but that one looks meaner".
Typical ignorant anti-gun response.
May 27, 2006, 03:58 PM
I've owned both Remingtons (870 Express, and 870 Police Magnum) and Mossbergs (500, 590 Mariner and Mav 88). There was a three year period when I was heavily into shotguns after I turned 18 and before I turned 21, because they were among the only guns I could buy myself and use at the indoor range. I've never had a problem with any of them except the 870 Police Magnum, which was a well worn police trade in when I picked it up. I suppose if you wanted your shotgun to double as a hammer and pry bar there might be a difference in durability, but I never had a shotgun break from normal use.
I admittedly don't shoot shotguns much anymore, and the only one I keep around is the Maverick. Mine is nothing but reliable, and I doubt that someone who breaks into my home will know the difference between being shot by it or shot by a Remington 870 that costs $140 more.
May 27, 2006, 11:46 PM
I prefer the Remington. I do not care for the way Mossberg/mavericks have the action bars attached to the ring that the forearm rides on. I have seen too many fail. I have seen a few remington ejectors fail. not too often but they do come off the rivet or snap from time to time.
About the shoots, Sheriff, you are in NY, you operate under a different set of rules than do a lot of us. My State is Minnesota. I live in one of the most liberally tilted social environments around. But here, If a home owner gets a clean shoot. It is a clean shoot. We had a Homeowner get a Felon a few years ago in his family room with a M1A, not exactly a hunters special, no billed as a Felon was in the wrong house. Local attitudes here are If a store owner or a homeowner can clean the gene pool, we are proud of them.
I was asking about this a while ago while playing golf with a asst CA. He said he could not remember the last time they tried a civilian who was clean with a wrongful shooting/homicide case. This is ruling out of course the four time convicted dope peddler who claims self defense when he pops a guy at his front door with a gun. But Joe Blow, waking up and finding a BG in his house or breaking in, or Habib the convience store clerk popping a armed robber, not one case he could remember.
Remember there is way more to the country than what is between the Erie canal and Atlantic.
May 28, 2006, 02:00 AM
I know the "rules" in NY are different than a lot of the country. I just have learned that you can't second guess what a Jury will do. A lot of it has to do with "their" perceived opinions and thinking. A judge can give his instructions to a jury, but the bottom line is, what is in their mind, what do they perceive, are they pro gun or anti gun. Remember it is made up of just us ordinary citizens. You might just get a very "anti gun" Jury or a "pro gun" Jury. It is pretty much the luck of the draw. The Lawyers have just so many challenges and can dismiss just so many Jurors. After that, well it all rests on the ones left.
Personally, I don't care what anybody uses for HD. And being prepared makes sense. My admonission is to simply weigh the possible consequenses of a tricked out gun , no matter how legal the accessories are, as opposed to an everyday hunting gun. There are those that will argue this forever, and I suspect none that argue have ever been in the situation. So,, pick the road you want to go down and hope you are right. It makes no difference to me, I just have seen first hand what Juries do on occasion. It is enough to scare me.
May 28, 2006, 02:53 AM
This argument again?:rolleyes: If the gun is used legally then it does not matter what the gun looks like because there will be no jury.
If its not used legally then it may matter some what, but what matters more is some one was stupid and shot some one illegally and thus they are not being railroaded by a jury because of what the gun looks like. They are there because they broke the law.
May 28, 2006, 01:42 PM
My 'New' home shotgun is a Remington 870 Turkey with an improved cylinder choke. I put an 870 Police trigger group and bolt in it along with the heavy magazine spring. It has a 21 inch barrel...which makes it not only good for 'home defense', but also a great all around shotgun for the more likely events...like hunting, shooting skeet and plinking. ;)
I plan to sell my 870 police (for a reduced price since I swapped out the better parts mentioned above)...may sound strange to some, but I'm real happy with it!
May 28, 2006, 06:31 PM
Where does the Winchester Defender Model 1300 play in with Home Defense Weaponary? I have not seen it mentioned in this thread. Is that not another worthy self defense shotgun?
May 28, 2006, 08:12 PM
They dont make them anymore, the only shotguns offered anymore are made in japan assembled in japan and are overpriced POS's. But of course you could always find a used one and they do honor their warranty but how good is that when they run out of parts.
May 29, 2006, 12:22 AM
Some will disagree, but the 870 is a lot more shotgun than the Winchester 1300...I know, because I own both.
May 29, 2006, 12:41 AM
My dad, 18 years in law enforcement = Maverick 88
Me, 5 years in army = Remington 870 Syn. 7 shot
Maybe he knows something I don't...
May 29, 2006, 12:51 AM
Ever hear a bad guy say, "Ouch that REALLY hurt, you must have a collapseable buttstock!"
I would rather have the full buttstock on my Remmy. That way after I dumb 7 loads of 00 buck into SuperBadGuy I can buttstroke him to death. That reminds me, I need to work on mounting my bayonet on my Remmy...
May 30, 2006, 05:54 PM
"Ever hear a bad guy say, "Ouch that REALLY hurt, you must have a collapseable buttstock!" I would rather have the full buttstock on my Remmy. That way after I dumb 7 loads of 00 buck into SuperBadGuy I can buttstroke him to death. That reminds me, I need to work on mounting my bayonet on my Remmy..."
:rolleyes: You would make a great poster boy for the Brady Bunch!
No dis intended, but please grow-up.
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