PDA

View Full Version : Weak hand on trigger guard?


mica
April 18, 2006, 08:52 AM
I have never seen or heard of anyone placing their index finger or 2 on the front of the trigger guard. Some guns have a serrated front and I am guessing it is because some people DO grab the front of the trigger guard.

I was shooting like poo poo the other day and tried it just for the helluva it. It was significantly easier contolling recoil(Glock 23) I am thinking of switching over to this.

Anyone have experience with this. Is this grip something not recommended due to some inherent flaws? Any thought suggestions? thanks

mete
April 18, 2006, 01:47 PM
About 30 years ago some custom guns had a squared and checkered trigger guard. It became a fad and the factory guns were made with them.However the serious combat shooters and instructors quickly found that it meant an additional set of muscles to deal with so abandoned the idea.They found this out before the factories started making them !!

LoadIt
April 18, 2006, 02:24 PM
My Kimber Tactical Custom II has serrations UNDER the trigger guard. This seems to help bring the pistol back on target quicker.

I just pulled my Glock 19 out of the nightstand and reached my weakhand index finger out to the front-serrated trigger guard. (After removing the Streamlight M-3;) ) It just didn't feel natural. I think recoil might even pull the weapon away from the weakhand index finger making you have to reposition your hands to reaquire your grip.

ekspc
April 19, 2006, 11:51 AM
Crazy / I recently purchases an XD45; and after trying a couple of different grip positions I also put my weak left hand index on the trigger guard. I guess I am not so crazy after all.

Lycanthrope
April 19, 2006, 12:13 PM
Whatever works best for you.

Most handgun competitors keep both hands under claiming that recoil is less consistent from shot to shot (because keeping the same amount of finger pressure is difficult), but some have been very successful using that technique.

jcoiii
April 28, 2006, 04:55 PM
Whatever works best for you.

+1.

Jeff22
April 28, 2006, 09:45 PM
Back in the late 1970s or so, many IPSC shooters wrapped the index finger of the support hand around the front of the trigger guard. The theory was that it would help control recoil.

However, experimentation revealed that, for most shooters, all that did was compromise their grip on the weapon. Unless they had big hands and long fingers, the index finger would bounce off the trigger guard in rapid fire, accomplishing nothing.

So the competitive shooters largely abandoned the technique, right about the time that various gun manufacturers began putting "tactical trigger guards" on their handguns.

Some people really like the technique and it works for them. Most shooters find that it compromises their grip, and they're better off NOT doing it.

erh
April 29, 2006, 08:00 AM
mica - I always discouraged this practice while training folks simply because they tend to "Push or Pull" one way or the other... Long time Handgunners are the worst to try & instruct, but if it becomes a habit that works; go for it. If it's NOT a habit; try not to make it one... Just my .02 cents.

Eric Howland
Savannah, GA.

Rainbow Six
April 30, 2006, 01:24 AM
I'm in the "inconsistent/compromises grip" camp on this one. If all you do is punch paper at a slow rate, fine, maybe it will work for you *IF* you can get some sort of reference and repeat the same grip and the same contact with the same pressure with the finger each and every time. Good luck with that. Accurate shooting is all about stability, consistency, and repeatability. The finger on trigger gaurd simply isn't stabil under recoil. It would be very hard, if not impossible to be anywhere near consistent with it from shot to shot, especially during rapid fire or firing under stress. Lastly, repeatability would be questionable unless you totally adjust your grip between shots every time which doesn't work for stress shooting or combat/self defense shooting.

Don't use the finger on trigger guard as a crutch to avoid working out proper grip. You'll only be cheating yourself. The majority of the pros abandoned that technique for a reason. ;)

Archie
May 7, 2006, 07:43 PM
I've been doing it wrong?

I've used my index finger on the front of the trigger guard for over thirty years, as I recall. Some of my handguns have triggerguards modified and some don't. I shoot that way with revolvers and pistols both. I shoot double action revolver and single action pistol.

It does control recoil. When I've been working, I can shoot multiple controlled shots really fast.

I have not tiny, but smallish hands.

Go figure.

liliysdad
May 7, 2006, 08:06 PM
In my opinion, if you can put them in the 10ring holding the gun upsied down and using your pinky, go for it.

We get far too wrapped up in technique. Every person is different, and every person shoots differently.

pickpocket
May 8, 2006, 07:28 PM
...if you can put them in the 10ring holding the gun upsied down and using your pinky, go for it.

Hey - have you been spying on me at the range?? :cool:
I'd better patent that technique before someone tries to steal it! :D

4V50 Gary
June 20, 2006, 08:40 AM
One reason why instructors stopped teaching or didn't teach using the finger guard as a rest for the index finger is that the finger tends to pull the gun away from the target. That is, a left hand finger on the guard tends to pull the gun to the left. The right hand finger will pull it to the right. Better grip and less pull was obtained by keeping the entire support hand wrapped around the dominant hand.

MarkXIX
June 20, 2006, 12:21 PM
ive been known to do this a couple of times but its not a habit, its not really awkward feeling to me ive got decent sized hands i think, heck i did it with a Desert Eagle. I feel more secure when i shoot that way but its not nessecary cause i didnt do it with my uncle's Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum. :)

Huchahucha
June 26, 2006, 01:28 PM
Interesting thread. I was just thinking about this problem after going to the shooting range a few days ago. I naturally put my support hand on the trigger guard, but I shoot better if the gun has a rounded trigger guard (revolvers, 1911, Ruger Mark III) as opposed to a tactical trigger guard (most auto loaders). I was thinking about this while shooting my .40 cal Baby Eagle. It's one of my most accurate guns but I can't shoot it worth crap because I always have to think about where to stick my hand on the squared off tactical trigger guard. If I were a master metal fabricator I would cut that damned thing off and put a rounded guard on.

Boondoggie
June 28, 2006, 11:23 AM
Interesting thread, I have just completed a class where the instructed suggested NOT to put your finger on the front of the trigger guard for two reasons.

1. As stated by 4V50 Gary.
2. That you don't want to make this a habit with ANY revolver, as the cylinder gap thens to 'spit' debris out and can potentially cause an injury. Seems to make sense, unless someone can explain otherwise.

hksigwalther
June 28, 2006, 12:28 PM
It was significantly easier contolling recoil(Glock 23) I am thinking of switching over to this.

I had found this to be true for me early on and had stuck with it.


2. That you don't want to make this a habit with ANY revolver, as the cylinder gap thens to 'spit' debris out and can potentially cause an injury. Seems to make sense, unless someone can explain otherwise.

I had thought about this also and make it a point not to hold the trigger guard of my revolvers but will continue to do so with my pistols.

vinconco
July 20, 2006, 10:06 PM
You will never see top competitors in IPSC or any other speed/accuracy sport with their finger in front of the trigger guard because it compromises both speed and accuracy when they are put together. You can plink or shoot with your buddies and think that finger out front is helping but take that s*** to a tournament and see what happens. I certainly found out the hard way and wasted over a year practicing a flawed technique.

TexasSIGMan
July 23, 2006, 11:42 AM
I've been doing it wrong?

I've used my index finger on the front of the trigger guard for over thirty years, as I recall.


Well if it works for you then it's not "wrong". It was called the "European grip" for a long time, and some gun makers even called the serrated front of the trigger guard by the same name.

It was commonly taught 30 years ago, so it's no surprise you'd have learned it then.

Not taught any longer, so new shooters should certainly not fool with it, but as long as it's been around you will see many VERY good shooters using it, but that's because of years of practice, not any benefit of the grip.

still 2 many choices
July 23, 2006, 02:28 PM
I do the same grip(left index on trigger guard), and shoot the same gun(Glock 23), and find it intuitive for me to grab the weapon this way. Did it the first time I handled the 23, will continue to do so until I find I am more accurate handling the weapon another way. Cheers to the ,"European Grip"...:D !

Still 2 Many Choices!?

hksigwalther
July 23, 2006, 05:16 PM
Uh, let's call it, "Freedom Grip".

BerettaBuckeye
July 23, 2006, 08:21 PM
You will never see top competitors in IPSC or any other speed/accuracy sport with their finger in front of the trigger guard because it compromises both speed and accuracy when they are put together. You can plink or shoot with your buddies and think that finger out front is helping but take that s*** to a tournament and see what happens. I certainly found out the hard way and wasted over a year practicing a flawed technique


Apparently Jerry Barnharttook that s**t to at least a few tournaments...anyone know what happened?

Lurper
July 23, 2006, 11:03 PM
Better take a better look at your picture. Burner's finger is not wrapped around the trigger guard. Very few top competitors shoot that way for a reason. Some succeed in spite of their efforts, not because of them. By wrapping your finger around the front of the trigger guard, you introduce inconsistant pressure and tension to your grip. Wrapping your finger around the trigger guard was popular in the 80's and with people who learned to shoot weaver. It has the same drawbacks as many of those similar techniques.

kentak
July 27, 2006, 10:00 PM
I say anyone who says there is only one way for everyone to hold a gun is all wet. People are different, guns are different. Find what works for you with a particular gun and practice it.

I had a tendency to pull left when shooting my Glocks. A weak-side finger laid on the side of the front of the trigger guard helps stabilize my grip and re-centered my shots.

K

FirstFreedom
August 17, 2006, 05:59 PM
Yes, definitely - that's what that serrated boxy part is there for. I keep the left index finger on the trigger guard's front and pull back in - it reduces muzzle flip significantly and helps me stay on target. MOST serious gunners do NOT do this, however. I dunno why, because it sure seems to help me.

Better take a better look at your picture. Burner's finger is not wrapped around the trigger guard.

His name is Barnhart and he most certainly does appear to have his finger wrapped around the trigger guard.

Edit: I see that it's been explained why most serious gunners don't to this. I dunno; works for me, but I'm not a serious handgunner either, just a hobbyist 3-gunner, so I'm sure I'd change it up if I got serious into IPSC, for the reasons mentioned.

Lurper
August 24, 2006, 09:00 AM
His name is Barnhart and he most certainly does appear to have his finger wrapped around the trigger guard.
If you know him, his nickname is "Burner" and his finger is not wrapped around the trigger guard. Having had the pleasure of shooting with him and most of the legendary names in our sport I have first hand observation of his technique and have never seen him wrap his finger around the trigger guard. Some of the European shooters do with success, but that success is in spite of their efforts, not because of them. You control the gun better by having a neutral, relaxed grip. Not by trying to squeeze the gun tightly. While it's true that there is more than one way to do things, it is also true that there is usually a best way. If you don't think so, take a look at all of the dominant shooters and see what they do. There is a reason that they dominate.

FirstFreedom
September 1, 2006, 07:36 PM
Ok, I'll buy that...

Makarov The Lucky
November 28, 2006, 04:11 AM
The problem is that you could accidently put your finger inside the trigger guard in a tense situation and pull the trigger. Although this works I wouldnt recommend it. For the simple fact that I was trained not to do so.
But before that, before I had learned how to shoot regularly. I did use this technique.