View Full Version : Ever observe other shooters at the range?
March 19, 2006, 12:47 AM
I was teaching my girlfriend to shoot today. There was alot of downtime for her to rest her arms and also because she takes a long time to make her shots and I started looking around. I like the shooters you dont notice, I always notice the idiots.
Lots of idiots around me today, rapid firing and not hitting crap. I think alot of us probably look at peoples targets if they are close enough to us and rapid firing.
Two middle aged guys shot next to me today sharing a stainless* .357 revolver, I tried to read the name on the side but that part of the brl as well as almost the entire wheel was covered in black soot. At first I thought maybe the finish had been burned and changed the coloring but the more I looked the more it looked like actual soot/grime on the wheel and the brl right by the wheel. They diddnt bother to put up new targets and just used the ones from the people before them. The people before them hadnt been very good shots and neither were they. Bullets all around with no grouping to speak of, unless you could all your bullets on the same paper as a "two foot group". To give them credit, they did strike a nice pose as they shot one handed as fast as they could pull the trigger, very tough looking. They only shot 1 box each, so they were gone pretty quickly, they even nodded to each other and grinned and generally seemed very satisifed when they left.
Alot of other rapid fire shooters today, none had any kind of group as far as I could see either and Ive never even seen a revolver in that poor condition berfore, worst shooting Ive ever seen.
March 19, 2006, 01:21 AM
At what distance was the shooting? I'll watch the targets of other people. I don't really watch how they shoot, what style they are shooting.
March 19, 2006, 07:51 AM
I always keep an eye on other people's targets so I can compare them to mine. I also try to see what they're firing.
Most of the time here's what I see (at an indoor range). 80% of the people tend to set their targets up at around 7 to 8 yards. Of that 80%, I NEVER see any type of consistency in terms of groupings...they're pretty much all over the target. Those that rapid fire tend to be all over the paper, not just in the bullseye. Of the 80% that keep their tarets within 7 to 8 yards, 90% of them use silhouettes rather than COM or bullseye's. I go every week, sometimes twice a week, and I NEVER see any of these same people at the range.
What do I derive from this? Either the vast majority of the folks that have guns are not terribly serious about learning how to get good with them, or I am extraordinarily anal about refining my shooting skills. Personally, I believe the former is the case.
March 19, 2006, 08:29 AM
ready for this, ok here it goes.....15 feet. The range I go to starts off really close on one side and moves further and further down on the other. I think the furthest is 25 yards. Almost all of the shooters want to shoot at the closest targets, the 25 and 15 yard post are always empty.
March 19, 2006, 08:40 AM
I have seen a lot of terrible shooting. Probably everytime I go to the range.
Usually, the best shots are the old-timers that have 1911s. They usually are shooting bullseye style though, but I have seen them in other stances.
The crowd I see that shoots like crap the most are: younger guys, guys training their girlfriends, and people with tactical plastic.
Most people with Glocks, Sigs, HKs, and even XDs aren't very good usually. I am talking @ 7 yeards missing the target or they have foot wide groups if you could call it that.
I don't think they go to work on their skills. They go to have an adrenaline rush by shooting, look cool with their lady, or just try to be "badass" with their tacti-cool pieces. It's very sad and I would not want any of them with a firearm on the street or protecting me.
Also, most of them choose calibers which they cannot control and would be better off with a lighter caliber.
And finally, last time I was there, there was a LEO teaching his girlfriend to shoot a "12 gauge" and trying to show his skills. At 7 yards he missed the entire silhouette target with 5 shots. He hit the corners of the paper and the arm of the target. It was the saddest thing I have ever seen while shooting at the range. And he thought he was good, and was just having an "off" day. I know I have off days, as everyone does...but man, missing with a long arm at that distance, that many times....was just not right.
March 19, 2006, 08:42 AM
every time I go to the range I see people shooting with no eye protection on :o
March 19, 2006, 08:48 AM
I never really thought about people looking at my targets when I'm done. I get lazy and cheap and don't feel like walking downrange to change my targets. When the bullseye gets full of holes I just pick out an empty spot on the target, put a hole in it and try to hit the same hole. Sometimes I try to hit the corners of the paper.
People probably see this and think, man, that guy can't hit the broad side of a barn.
March 19, 2006, 09:03 AM
Every time I go to the range I make a point to walk up and down the lanes at least once or twice while I'm there. I do it on the off chance that I'll see that one person who is trying to learn to shoot but is all by themselves. I'm not intrusive about it or anything but if I notice someone obviously trying to shoot well but "teaching themselves" so to speak, allot of times I'll say hello and offer up a quick pointer or two. Usually after the quick pointer helps, they're interested in having more help.
Now, I'm not a certified instructor and I don't charge anyone for my advice/tips/pointers/whatever. I just do it because I love the sport of shooting and I want people to learn how to shoot properly. I can think of more than a few occasions where I helped out a fellow shooter and it's always well received. It's a good feeling to know you're helping people learn good shooting habits.
As for those morons who want to shoot as fast as they possibly can and hit everything BUT the target, well, they're just good for comic relief.
March 19, 2006, 09:28 AM
One of the great enduring myths; every American a shooter.
Accurate shooting takes a certain amount of natural ability. It also requires practice, practice and practice to get even better.
Ever go to a basketball game and watch some players shoot fouls. Sometimes they are college scholarship athletes and sometimes NBA pros. Some still have trouble hitting the "broad side of a barn" it seems.
Decades ago I had an acquaintance who taught police marksmanship training. Some of his stories were scary about the inaccuracy.
March 19, 2006, 09:31 AM
I check out the other shooters. Primarily, I want to make sure I'm not standing next to some goofball. If the guy is really nutty, I tell the RO.
I remember one guy who brought his girlfriend there. From what I gather, she was interested in him and in some other guy they both knew but wasn't there. So the guy who was there starts telling her how to shoot, and she says, "So-and-so said I was supposed to do it this other way." The guy says, "Don't listen to him. He doesn't know sh*t." The guy then loads the gun and proceeds to fire off a full mag (15 rounds of 9mm) and completely misses the target. About then, the RO steps over says, "Sir, you're shooting up my support pilings. From now on, you need to aim at the target. If you hit my pilings again, you'll have to leave the range."
I think the girlfriend's giggle was probably more embarrassing to the guy than getting a warning from the RO.
Secondarily, I like to see what other people bring to the range. Sometimes you'll find a serious shooter there with a nice rig, and you can get into a pretty interesting conversation. Sometimes, they'll even let you shoot a mag or two.
March 19, 2006, 09:55 AM
They go to have an adrenaline rush by shooting,
Another possible reason.......
I was shooting at the base range on an AFB when a young Airman showed up, broke out about 5-6 boxes of 9mm, a half dozen hicap mags and his pistol.
He hung some paper, loaded the mags and proceed to burn ammo. He went through all of his ammo in short order. When he saw me watching he just grinned and said "Therapy". (I think he was seeing something/someone other than the target downrange.:D :D )
March 19, 2006, 10:21 AM
Well maybe not exactly. Although I have burned 1200 rounds in the last two days practicing double-taps at 3-4 yards, but I'll get to that in a minute. I've only been shooting for about three months now, and average 400 rounds a week at the range. I can easily put all my shots within a 5" group out to 20 yards or so. I know thats nothing to bragg about, but it does fall into the "kill" ring on a silhouette target. I've taken a class to get my CHL (texas) and have on on the way and spent my range time practicing what I considered to be good defensive shooting (WTH did I know?) . When I took my CHL class, I outshot all the other people taking the class and the ones recertifying. Again thats not bragging, because I'm really not all that good, thats only telling you how bad the other peeps shooting was. One person was even shooting their gun for the very first time!! All this under my belt I was pretty comfortable with my shooting skills. Then last week I went to my first IDPA match. Keep in mind, I can easily put all my shots in that -0 ring COM. Anyone who has shot a match knows what coming next. All my practicing and I cant even remember shooting the first stage of the match. .Shots were placed wildly with some completely missing the target altogether. Second stage went a little better, but man, if I had gotten my CHL and carried without ever having that match experience, I would definately be unprepared for an actual confrontation. It looks like there is alot more match shooting in my future to try and best prepare for shooting under stress.. I know for myself the defensive shooting classes are for the most part to expensive for me. I try to do my best picking up tips from other shooters and the web. So if you see me at the range shooting rapidly at a target 3 yards away, give me tips on controlling recoil and proper stance, not judgement. ;) -zeke
March 19, 2006, 03:29 PM
Every range session. Mostly see what other people are shooting, several
times other shooters I have seen let me try their handguns, and I have let people try
mine. I see a lot of lousy (IMHO) shooting, but if people are there to have
fun, "it's not for me to say" (to quote a Johnny Mathis song). Eye and ear
protection are mandatory at the ranges I go to. I note those stalwarts who
wear only ear plugs. I wear plugs and muffs, though I have been blessed with
fairly acute hearing.
March 19, 2006, 03:43 PM
Not to worry;) Its good for the industry:D
March 19, 2006, 07:38 PM
I always observe the people next to me on each side. I just want to be sure I'm not being swept by the muzzle.
It seems like 85% of those ar lousy shots. Lots of fresh out of puberty SWAT wannabes with the thigh rig holster.
Worst of all are the couples on a date. Nobody seems interested in teaching their partnet to shoot, they just hand them the gun and let them empty it in the general direction of the backstop.
A couple of months ago, I see some guy "teaching" his girlfriend to shoot. He hands her this giant (44 or 454) revolver, with no instruction. She fires one shot, and the gun flips up and smashes her right on the forehead. Lots of blood, but no serious injury.
I guess he wasn't getting any that night:p
March 19, 2006, 07:41 PM
I just like to take a look around every once and a while to make sure no one is accidently pointing a gun at me. Get a feel for who are nuts and who aren't. Watch the nuts like a squirrel!
And unaimed bullet hurts just has much as a dead on bullet.
March 19, 2006, 07:47 PM
I tend to avoid the shooters who are teaching their girlfriends how to shoot.:D
March 19, 2006, 08:30 PM
Once while shooting next to Mr. watch how fast I can shoot I did this.. Put the prettiest little group dead center in the bulls eye for him (without his knowing hehehe!) Boy was he proud! Sorry but I just HAD to do it.;)
March 19, 2006, 09:39 PM
Perhaps it's not about being "a serious shooter".
Maybe for these people, it's about being able to hit
a man sized target at acceptable self-defense ranges.
Not everyone is an IDPA geek, or a hard-core reloader
or a bullseye expert. Maybe they just go to the range
ocassionally to make sure thier peice still works, and
that they can still "hit the broad side of a barn".
Not everyone is a gun nut, after all. :)
March 19, 2006, 09:58 PM
Last month I had the priveledge being next to a goober who was trying to teach his girlfriend to shoot. He brought 2 guns, a Glock .45 and a S&W .460magnum.:eek: It didn't go over very well.
March 19, 2006, 10:13 PM
Generally, I just make sure people around me are safe. Other than that, I don't really care what their targets look like. I try to be in and out of my usual indoor range within 15 min. shooting usually 72 - 80 rnds.
Frankly, I feel there's a lot of making-fun-of-the-person/people-who-shoot-worse-than-you attitude from reading the responses of this thread. We all have to start from not knowing how to shoot, so the next time you have the extra time at the range to notice how poorly somebody shoots, perhaps you can go over to him/her and provide some free pointers.
I've started actively shooting since last August, and when I frist started shooting 8 months ago, I probably look like the fellow who's not hitting paper and rapid firing. I say this because I actually when thru that, after firing a mag w/o getting a nice group, I get frustrated and rapid firing ensues. :) So, the next time you see someone doing the above, he/she may just be a new frustrated shooter.
Anyway, after 8 months, I find myself usually having the best looking target in terms of grouping and distance. Usually, if anybody beats me is the 1911 guys, but I know how easy it is to shoot that pistol :) Give them my HK P2000v3, and they miss on the DA then complains about the high bore axis :rolleyes:
March 19, 2006, 10:49 PM
have you all not taught your wives/girlfriends how to shoot, or is it that you prefer the single life?:rolleyes:
March 19, 2006, 11:15 PM
Im not making fun of anyone, Im not the best shooter ever but I think there is a difference between attempting to shoot well and wasting your ammo as fast as your gun will shuck it out.
As for people teaching their girlfriends, we take it pretty seriously. No goofing and she is coming along pretty well. She cant shoot a whole lot because her arm gets tired so I may be in the marked for a nice light .22lr for her.
March 19, 2006, 11:29 PM
I had to give my P22 to my wife. Thankfully she let me keep the can;)
March 19, 2006, 11:30 PM
hey man i wear a thigh rig! and i draw from it at the range am i no wanna be swat
March 20, 2006, 01:22 AM
I'm getting pretty close to Master Class in IDPA, but on occasion I really like to take the AR to the rang and bump fire a few hundred.......
Life's too short not to smile. Besides, not everyone buys a gun as a defensive tool.
March 20, 2006, 09:24 AM
I just watch for safety, normally. One time some guys were firing a Hi-Point carbine with a ridiculous stance that had the muzzle at about the same point horizontally as everyone else's bodies! I just pointed out the yellow line and they understood. Then the one not firing asked me if my 2" J-frame .38 is "better than a Glock." :confused: I just answered "it depends."
I was amused yesterday at the stance of a girl at the range. She was firing a Walther .22. She would stand up straight, grip the pistol in an isoceles, then lean back into what appeared to be an uncomfortable position. I think she was doing it to get her sight picture.
March 20, 2006, 10:05 AM
"She would stand up straight, grip the pistol in an isoceles, then lean back into what appeared to be an uncomfortable position. I think she was doing it to get her sight picture."
That sounds like my wife. The first time we went to the range I let her shoot a few clips however she wanted (and she was leaning way back to get a sight picture), then started gently straitening her back out before she started shooting the next few. A word of advice to anyone taking a wife/girlfriend to the range for the firt time: #1 for her first shot, load one round only. Let her get a feel for a shot before giving her the opportunity to jerk off a few shots out of surprise from the first one. #2 make sure she doesn't wear heels. #3 If you ever want her to go again, don't hand her anything over a 9mm. A .22 would be ideal. Let her get a feel for it and work her way up. #4 Success is the best way to get her interested in coming back. I bought lasergrips for my 229 before her first trip, sighted them in, and after shooting 4 clips or so without any great groupings (she did hit the target though, surprised me), I turned on the laser for her. She did pretty darn good with that. Got a big smile out of her. She now has her own gun, a sig 239-smaller grip than mine, with laser sights. She shoots with me about wice a month and works on getting better with iron sights, but when she gets frustrated, she justturns on that laser and gets a feel-good target grouping. I'm sure that if I had handed her my 45 the first time out, she wouldn't have been back.
Anyhoo thats my $.02
March 20, 2006, 09:49 PM
I put a red dot on the .22 for my girl and she diddnt like it much, took it off and we went back to using the sights. Ive always maintained that she was a keeper:D
March 21, 2006, 08:36 AM
Watching other shooters is entertaining.
First off I really believe it is a mistake to teach a sig. other the basics of shooting. Just like teaching a son or a daughter to drive! Bad Ju Ju!
Next off the guys that blow through ammo, I wonder about? I have watched 1K of Rem UMC bulk packs blown down range as fast as possible!
Next off it is very true some people have too much pride, well it is a man thing to not ask directions or for help!
I only offer help when asked. If someone is a danger to others on the range, I retreat and let the range officer deal with it! That is their job!
I shoot at ranges on the off hrs so I avoid a lot of dangerous actions.
I have been caught in the airlock between the range and the range desk. I mean this one guy wreaked of alcohol! How the range officer did not smell it was beyond me?
It is easy to be critical of people, but we need all the shooters. We can not snub certain populations so to speak!
Like to see a DU/PF/REMF sticker on a SUV and at the same time a repeal concealed carry sticker on the same SUV!
We are in this together!
March 21, 2006, 08:53 AM
It's mostly all good for me. Last time I was at the range, a fella was trying to teach his wife and teenage daughter on a short barreled Glock 40 cal, and they were all having quite the time-even him, trying to keep it on the paper at 15 yards.
I didn't want to make the guy look bad in front of them, but during one of the breaks, I asked him if he would like to have them try out my Gold Cup and both of them, after a few shots were putting out some pretty decent groups. The wife turned to him and said, "I wanna trade this thing off for what he has!" Daughter is nodding her head in agreement like a bobble doll in the rear window.
Confirmed what I already thought. Try not to put a lightweight, short barreled pistol in the hands of a first time shooter-it really frustrates them and don't be surprised if they start flinching or anticipating recoil long before the shot.
March 21, 2006, 12:02 PM
David you are spot on in your post about starting out. I always start folks out on .22LR and let them learn the basics. It is also a lot cheaper to learn with a .22.
As for observing other people, well........, lets just say at times I have to do so. I am an NRA RSO and the club has me do range duty as people are coming out to sight their firearms in. I get frightened quite a bit by peoples behavior. I am quite surprised by the amount of ignorance concerning safety on the range. Range Duty is not my favorite activity needless to say.
March 21, 2006, 12:37 PM
As for observing other people, well........, lets just say at times I have to do so. I am an NRA RSO and the club has me do range duty as people are coming out to sight their firearms in. I get frightened quite a bit by peoples behavior. I am quite surprised by the amount of ignorance concerning safety on the range. Range Duty is not my favorite activity needless to say.
I am not adverse to a gun range requiring shooters to attend a basic gun safety course prior to using the range. I realize it would impose certain costs, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen RSOs have to tell people not to hold a semiautomatic pistol with their thumb sticking up right behind the slide. Thankfully, I've never seen anyone actually injured at a range, other than the occasional "hammer bite," but I imagine that some guy making a trip to the hospital for an injured thumb would probably make for worse news than spending 10 bucks or so on a safety course that addresses range rules and common errors seen at the range.
March 21, 2006, 01:54 PM
I guess because I'm new to the area, I try to not to be overly observant. I don't want to be percieved as being intrusive or anything.
When walking to my lane, I will try to take a sneak peek at what others are shooting, just out of curiousity. I can't always judge how people are so I don't get into conversations over their hardware.
When in my lane, I do tend to look at other peoples target, just to see how good they are. Always feel better when others are as bad as me. :D When I see someone punching out the bullseye, I will kind of nonchanlantly walk over and observe thier style...I'm one of those currently teaching myself to be a better shooter. So I try to pick up hints on posture, grip, etc.
Haven't run into too many yahoos...none really. The range I go to is pretty laid back and they seem to have a respectful clientele. The one time I observed someone teaching his girlfriend/wife/S.O, he was a damn good shot!! She had quite a few bullseyes so I would load my mags slower to hear his advice since it was obviously working.
But I also would welcome any pointers from experienced shooters at the range. If you're in the dallas area, just look for the raggedy U of Ala. hat...that's me! :D
March 21, 2006, 02:06 PM
As long as they follow the four rules, I care not at all if other people at the range are only interested in turning lots of money into noise very quickly. None of my business.
March 21, 2006, 03:38 PM
I will practice 2+1 sequences at the range for 25-50 rounds on a COM target at 25 feet or less.
I will practice even, paced, 1-shot-per-second on a COM target at 25 feet or less.
I will practice slow fire drills at 25 YARDS for a mag or two on a Bullseye.
And I will rapid-fire empty a mag into a 15 foot target COM.
For 2+1, my goal is everything in COM and head. Same for the 1shot/sec drill. Slow fire is an attempt to make one ragged hole at 25 yards, and rapid fire is just to unwind after trying to shoot so precisely.
Each has its place, but if someone breaks into my bedroom and is 10 feet away when I get my gun, that 2+1 or rapid-fire to slide lock technique may pay off.
March 21, 2006, 04:23 PM
I check out what people are firing and how. I observe the skills of the shooter first and then if I think the guy or gal knows what he's doing, I may ask about his firearm. Learned a lot about guns I've ben interested in by watching them in action and discussing them with their owner. I'm lucky in that I have access to a few different types of ranges. There is an old sand pit range near me that everyone goes to get out some stress. Guys put up jugs of water, bowling pins, all kinds of stuff on a birm 100 yards away. Gotta say its kind of fun to go there every once in awhile. Then there's my indoor range, whcih is a graet facility to seriously train with your pistol. I never see people behaving poorly or dangerously there. I'm a pretty good pistol shot (Dad taught me well--his department sent him to the FBI marskmanship school back in the 60's, and he's still a one hole shooter) but I see some truly great pistol shooting there. Then there's another range I use when I'm serious about rifle shooting. It has a no rapid fire, 5 rounds per mag policy. Its where you go to see the benchrest guys and competition guys doing their thing.
March 21, 2006, 05:10 PM
At my range, the majority of shooters are "walk-ins". They walk in off the street and figure they'll give shooting a go. They quickly learn that it's not as easy as they make it out to be on television and the movies. I often hear them comment about how it's hard to do.
Then there are the "serious" shooters which makes up a small percentage and they bang away at 25 yards in their perfect target shooting stances and group their shots respectably. No rush, no sense of urgency. And that's ok because they're target shooting.
Then there's the even smaller percentage of shooters that show up with their stock pistols and set their targets at contact distance, shoot from retention, practice malfunction drills and return their pistols to concealment holsters. And that's cool too.
The more people that can appreciate shooting and the shooting sports the better for all of us because these are the people that take the time to educate themselves unlike the ignorant that go on to recommend laws that are just plain 'wack".
Personally, I don't care how others shoot because if they're happy with their poor shooting skills, that means that's one less threat to me.;)
March 21, 2006, 08:49 PM
I think the other shooters are watching me, LOL!
My indoor range does not go out to 25 yards. The farthest you can push the targets is 50 feet (a little less than 17 yards). This talk of shooting handguns at 25 yards has me confused :confused: . I can't imagine even seeing the target at 25 yards, much less being able to hit it with a bullet. Isn't that what rifles are for?
Almost everyone at my range puts their target at 21 feet (7 yards), and yes, as far as I can tell, most of them can't hit squat at that distance. They're all over the place. I am a serious shooter (even though I am not good at it) in the sense that I practice regularly, mostly with .22, want to hit what I'm aiming at, and become disgusted when I can't.
However, I am interested only in the self-defense use of the handgun. I have never hunted and don't see the point in trying to hit a bullseye at a long distance with a handgun (not that I wouldn't be elated if I could). Most of my practice happens at that very embarrasing distance of 21 feet, just like everyone else at my range, and I work on hitting the target with single shots, double-taps, triple-taps, and quick reloads. I've gotten to the point where I can actually shoot "groups" at this distance, with the right gun. Whooo hoooo!
March 21, 2006, 08:59 PM
I regularly see shooters with rifles set up their targets at 15 feet, and then blast all over the place. Some of them can put all of their bullets almost in the same big hole (between the eyes of the Bin Laden target) at that range, but some of them are all over the place.
One time, I was set up next to a 19-ish year-old guy with his dad and an AK-47. They had their target set up at 15 feet, if that, and couldn't hit squat, if you can believe that. After this kid shot and broke the cable holding up the target :eek: , they moved these guys to a new lane on the other side of me, where they lost the magazine on the range, and the officer had to call for a cease fire :p .
I suck at shooting, no doubt, but I'm way better than most of the people I see there. People at my range, on the whole, don't really shoot, they just send bullets downrange. That's why the "groups" at 25 yards don't seem real to me.
March 24, 2006, 10:08 PM
If your groups are small, you could be shooting faster.;) Unless you are a bullseye shooter or something. That said, if someone can't stay on paper, they should slow down.
Honestly, if the guy next to me is being safe, I could care less how what or why they are shooting. It's really none of my business. If they are a safety hazzard, then it becomes my concern, but otherwise why would anyone feel the need to intrude on another person that is paying good money on a gun, ammo and range time? Also, why would I want to waste my valuable(expensive) range time staring at some other goobers silly stance? If they ask me a question I'll answer, if not and everyone is being safe I like to concentrate on my shooting.
March 25, 2006, 02:13 AM
I dont think anyone goes to the range to stare at other shooters, I just observe people around me naturally. Certain people just draw attention to themselves, if I ever go to the range and the guy shooting 14 rounds in 6 seconds has a 2 inch group Ill still pay attention to him but for a different reason. Maybe I can learn from him.
March 28, 2006, 09:26 PM
I'm fairly new to handguns, i grew up on rifles and shotguns, but handguns and the range are something I picked up just after i turned 21 last year. I was in the Army for awhile and grew up around LEOs and ex-military so gun safety and respect was something i was taught very young. My range experiences so far have been pretty good, but I do notice that alot of other folks either don't seem to know all of what they are doing or just don't care. If you wanna blow through 100 rounds of ammo as soon as you can load and fire it that's your perrogative, not my business. I do however get nervous around the guys who seem to act like it's just a cool thing to do and do dumb stuff like load the gun then walk out of the booth holding it with their finger on the trigger. (I got someone kicked out for that a few weeks ago actually) That always kinda makes me watch them before i fire to see what their intentions are stupidity or animosity. I have one handgun a Taurus .38 and I try to shoot for accuracy more than anything else because i wanna be confident to know that if i can hit the bullseye 9 out of 10 shots on a range i can hit a BG as many out of 5 as possible if i ever need to.
March 28, 2006, 10:08 PM
I first started owning and shooting my guns at my nextdoor indoor range a year ago.
My dad owned guns for years, but I never knew about it until my brother found his .357 and 9mm one day...but needless to say, he only took me to the range once before I started owning.
I usually go during off hours so that I have the place to myself because this range will get jammed packed around 4pm and weekends. I do this so that I do not make a fool of myself and to avoid idiots.
I take my time with my revolver and my aim to be as accurate as possible, not to see how many rounds I can burn through in 15 mins. I like to mark my groupings and test out different ammos.
I did have a strange experience last year when I went with my friend who was range testing some different loads for his deer rifle. We spent hours there testing up to 100 yards.
Halfway through the testing, some dumbass comes to the stall next to us and just starts to burn through his ammo like no tomorrow. He really thought he was something special (even though his target did not show it) and he seemed very reckless.
After a while, my friend brought in the target from about 30 yards and started to mark the groupings...he stopped and motioned me to check it out. There were 8 holes on the target when my friend had only shot 5 rounds. He waited for the guy to reload, then confronted him about the issue...the guy just laughed and said he was curious if he could hit a target at that range...my friend just snapped at him saying that he was testing loads and his sights and that if that idiot wanted to test out his accuracy at 30 yards, then he should move his own target back that far.
Of course, it did not end there. After I shot a few rounds and was bringing in the target, the idiot unloads about half his clip into the target, knocking it to the ground from the holding clips. He was "trying to hit a moving target".
I did my best to keep my cool because it is not wise to get into a fight at the damn gun range and luckily, the RO came in and asked the idiot to leave because he had seen the whole thing. The RO even made it up to us by not charging us for the time that day (would have been $24 per person.)
March 28, 2006, 10:18 PM
The only shooters I worry about about are the unsafe, irresponsible ones. The rest can be taught or learn. Sometimes shooting is all about the fun of the noise and the smell of burn't powder. We don't all shoot for groups all the time.
March 28, 2006, 10:50 PM
I just watch to make sure I'm not getting yet another firearm pointed at me by some random stranger. That irks me a little, but I try to remain calm most of the time. Otherwise, I don't worry about other shooters. Usually they are paying attention to me for pointers! ;)
One of my favorites was the day I was at the range with my Glock and a bunch of local LEOs were training. An older gentleman with a Glock 22 or 23 on his hip made a comment about 9mm being a good lady's gun. I emptied a mag into the head of a silhouette at about 7-8 yards, as fast as they were shooting COM at that range. The comments from the "all-knowing" police officers stopped! :cool:
And then there was the time my friends didn't think anybody could ring the 100-yard gong with a pistol. Same Glock 17, and I put 8 out of 10 on it offhand on my first string. Just shrugged it off and said "Practice. Always about practice."
But yeah, mostly I make sure the shooters around me aren't pointing firearms where they should not be pointed, or are not presenting an immediate danger of tossing a round out of the range. (It's been done a few times by those who love to bump-fire and those who don't watch their muzzle.) I've offered to help people, but most males will not accept advice from a little "kid" and most females are too intimidated by the time their friends are done with them.
April 1, 2006, 05:03 PM
I'm fairly new to shooting and am far from good. I'm definitely not the worst person there, but have a lot of work to do to be good. I place my target no further than 7 yards and shoot very slow. I try to take my name and work on trigger pull, grip, not flinching, etc. If I put 50% or more of my shots in the center ring, I feel pretty good. I don't exactly have a tight grouping, but am pretty conistent with shooting a bit to left (except for the few bullets that really get away from me when i flinch or anticipate the shot).
I never rapid fire, but I have started working on double taps. My first shot is usually pretty decent, but my second shot is usually pretty far off and is not reallly consistent with where it goes, left, right, up down. If anyone has any tips on how to work on double tops I would love to here them. I usually only work on my double taps on my last couple of clips and just focus trying to hit the center ring. I always shoot at silhouettes, is there a better type of target I should use?
On the topic of observing others. I'm always looking at others targets and how they are shooting. The worst i've ever seen were a couple of guys that came in and starting shooting there 9mm and holding it "gangster" (sideways style) and shooting at the head of a target that was like 5 feet away and half the shots not even hitting the paper.
April 10, 2006, 04:22 PM
I always check others folks out at the range, I do a quick sweep to see if there are any hot, giggling blonde women in really tiny bikinis firing automatic weapons and throwing their hair all about...like in the video I got a few years ago!! Actually, I do observe others. I like to see what kind of gun they are shooting, often times they will let me fire off a few rounds from a gun that I have never shot before...last time at the range, there was some LEO with an AR-15 with a really cool scope, he let me fire a full magazine. I also got to shoot a BIGASSMUTHA .500 revolver...only took one shot outta that boy to convince me that I don't like em!!!
April 10, 2006, 04:51 PM
Unless someone is being unsafe (which I WILL not tolerate),
WHO CARES whether they are shooting what we think is the "appropriate" way or not????
Just because I'm not anal retentive about my grouping, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed on the range.
The problem at ranges is the same problem that exists in chat groups...the people that think because they are the "expert's or because they have ten thousand posts, they can tell everyone else what to do.
Shooting is supposed to be fun and a fundamental right. The biggest danger to encouraging more Americans to do more shooting is quickly becoming the range and board nannies...
If I'm not doing anything illegal or dangerous then please...bugger off!!!
April 10, 2006, 07:33 PM
Hell...I just make sure they're not doing anything unsafe and leave it at that. I don't really think it's for me to judge their abilities.
April 10, 2006, 07:34 PM
Uhh...I mean "what News said" :D
April 10, 2006, 08:01 PM
yep, i watch as many shooters as possible. on the rifle range theres almost always one guy with a semi-auto that can lay down an impressive field of fire all across the berm, without ever hitting his target. so one time i thought "i'll try firing as fast as possible, and see what i can do". hard as i try, with my rifle shouldered, i just cannot get out of a 12 inch circle at 100 yards. maybe someday i'll be more talented.
on the handgun range, it gets downright scary. i feel like i'm the only one who hits the target. unless i'm shooting next to Wildalaska. then i KNOW i'm the only one hitting my target. :D
April 16, 2006, 08:57 AM
well guys i tell ya what. i have all styles of guns. i enjoy each one's shooting style. each gun has a served purpose. so when i go to the range, i feel its like taking the kids to the park:D it never ceases to amaze me how many idiots have been allowed to purchase a gun. maybe we should have an IQ test or at least a common sense test before purchase is allowed:) .but where i really get my kicks is when i take my wife (we are in our 20's and 30's both ex-military) she doesn't much care for pistol shooting. sees it as a last resort so does it ,but would rather get busy w/ a rifle. so after all these " self-appointed " cock strong ,bad-ass, show off ,can't hit the target marksmen get done. she mosies up to the deck, takes the prone position(at the range mind you) and will proceed to drive tacks at any range w/ any caliber. ( she at 150-200 yds can keep an sks at 1-2 group.w/ 2-3 round bursts(ind pulls)) then when she is done gets up gets in the truck and sits there ever so smuggly as we watch the afore-mentioned bad asses pick up there jaws put there gear away and tuck tail. probably having to explain to there girlfriend or buddies what is/was wrong w/ there guns/themselves , or how they were just off today. or how my wife was just lucky.......we always get a little kick out of doing this. especially when old timers are around. just so we can give them some hope that the future is not lost on the youth,. we are out there so keep on shootin strait and for those of you who can't or won't stay home!
April 16, 2006, 12:07 PM
From my point of view it is all about the context of the training. Some people get all wrap around the axel about their group. To me a group means that you are either just into target practice (bullseyes) or you are just going to slow. These people are obviously not interested in real world self defense training or have no idea what it is.
My context is self defense. I work on the balance of speed and accuracy. I look to draw and fire as fast as I can go, as long as I keep it within a 9" Thoracic Cavity hit. I also use a lot of threat focused skills (sans sights) including shooting fromt the compressed ready, 1/2 hip, 3/4 hip, zippering. For those that watch my "group" I am sure that they wonder why I suck so bad. I would be more than happy to go FOF with them to find out who's practice is more efficient, effective, and real world.
For those that feel the need to judge others to make themselves feel superior, they need to understand the context of the training. If you do not understand real world self defense skills then you are judging from a position of "you do not know what you do not know."
Which would be a major character flaw.
If someone has a 18" group, while zippering , at three yards, with the first shot breaking at .75, with the remaining shots four shots with a .18 split, while vertically stringing upwards. Would that person suck in your eyes?
Context man, context! You need to understand it to be able to judge it.
April 16, 2006, 04:53 PM
Why be so critical about how other people burn there money? They are still shooting right. That means they support the second Amendment Rights. They support the firearms industry and shooting sports in general. Now if they are unsafe that is another story. I will always say something if I see unsafe acts. The people who are being unsafe are just new or nervous for the most part and will accept some advice on safety when done in a friendly way.
I have to confess that I sometimes load a Magazine and blast away as fast as I can at 15yds. I hit the target but it is not that 1/2 inch group.
April 17, 2006, 01:35 PM
Okay, I didn't observe this first hand, but my friend just went to the range this weekend and he brought one of his buddies. His buddy had no experience shooting and my friend had very little. I told him if they wanted they could swing by and I could give them a couple of pointers before they showed up at the range and did something stupid. Well they never swung by, but did go to the range.
After inquiring how it went, he tells me his buddy loaded the bullets in mag. backwards. Uhh, what? How does that happen? :confused: Wouldn't common sense tell you when your putting the magazine into the gun, the bullets should be facing forward and not backwards. Well needless to say, he didn't realize it and attempted to shoot it and welp, nothing happend. So he brought the gun to the range officer who quickly told him the bullets were in backwards. Wow, I bet he felt silly.
My friend also managed to put one of his bullets in the magazine backwards. While he was off figuring out why the one gun didn't fire, he let his friend shoot the mag he just loaded in the other gun they had. His friend started shooting and around the 4th round it didn't fire.
I can safely so that, so far, I have not put a bullet in the mag. backwards. I hope I can continue to say that for a very long time.
April 17, 2006, 01:45 PM
I agree with news and epr105 and others. As long as you are keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction I couldn't care less what your target looks like or if you stand on your head while you are shooting.
April 17, 2006, 07:39 PM
Hey, that isn't really fair. I take offense to the people on the first page of this thread who lump everyone teaching their girlfriend how to shoot as bad shots.
I drill the center out of the target all day with my 586, and I take my girlfriend to the range sometimes. She's good, but I find it helps to move the target up pretty close. My thinking? Everyone can be a good shot at their own range. I don't expect her to grab my 357 magnum and be able to drill the center all day at 25 yards. I'm slowly introducing her to the sport. She had never shot outside of her Guard training, I'd grown up with a rifle in my hand.
Out to about 4-5 yards, she can manage a two inch group with the Bersa Thunder she likes so well. I feel pretty good about that. Quick learner. Most of all, it keeps it fun when you see that you're hitting the target.
Just remember not every guy with a girl on the range is there show boating or trying to flex their proverbial muscle. We're there because 1. I'd like her to share my appreciation of the sport (She already does, having bought me a gun for the last two birthdays!) and 2. Because being a good shot, even if just in common self defense ranges, is a skill that could very well save her life. It is a good time together AND MONEY BETTER SPENT THEN AT A MOVIE!
April 17, 2006, 07:41 PM
Oh, and she never blows through a mag! Not even in the Beretta. We DO, however, practice double taps. :rolleyes:
April 17, 2006, 10:04 PM
I think it is wonderful that people that are so different and from so many walks of life can enjoy the shooting sports. As long as they are safe I applaud them for learning what guns are really about. The Rambo wannabes that just blast ammo with no accuracy involved learn very quickly that they are wasting money and quit shooting.
A buddy of mine watches a lot of movies and used to listen to some rap. He would always recite lyrics talking about using a "9" and shooting gangster sideways. I took him out shooting and explained about the intricacies of the 9mm semi-automatic pistol (we are both engineering students) and showed him what real accuracy was about; not turning the gun sideways, taking your time, and aiming. I am not an Elmer Keith, Jerry Miculek, or Skeeter Skelton by any means but I am a moderately good pistol shot. I explained the instictive and speed shooting comes with experience and no Hollywood gangster will ever take the time to practice and train enough to be terribly effective.
I have taken my fiance (another engineering student notice a theme?)shooting a few different times with various .22s and she has been very receptive so far. She understands and supports my decision to have a hobby and is willing to learn a little bit about it because I like it. While there I do not allow it to be a "date" especially on the firing line; it remains strictly professional and serious. She is becoming a fairly good shot now and knows the fundamental terminology of the various weapons we use.
April 23, 2006, 09:59 PM
The only bad shooting I truly worry about is mine. My range is on my property, so I'm lucky enough to get in 300 - 800 rounds a week. It doesn't seem that long ago that I can remember shooting like a true laugher. Occasional range visits are not generally conducive to quality shooting. There isn't always time to work on the skills and mind set drills one needs to work on to gain a comfort level and proficiency. I enjoy having shooters out to help each other with skills and accuracy. As with most things that are woth doing well it's practice practice practice. I don't have the luxury of being that good as to criticize.
April 23, 2006, 10:59 PM
I know there is a lot of show offs at the range that cant shoot for ----. I go shooting almost every sunday, and from what i see not to brag but i almost always out shot people there.I have spent over twenty yrs shooting for marksmanship.a young guy today asked what i was shooting when he seen my grouping which was my glock g19 9mm, He then replied that my glock was very accurate.He then stated his 45 was shooting low and left so we swaped guns i let him shoot mine and i shot his 45 taurus. The outcome his 45 taurus did shot low but once i adjusted i still was able to group ok. Then i looked at his target even though he did shot my glock better He still was all over the place on the paper.The guy then say thats it i am going to trade in my taurus for a glock then i replied no offense ,but train more before trading the gun in unless he rather train on a nine rather then a 45. He said you think.I felt like saying Da look at your target but i was nice and said practice makes better shooters.
April 23, 2006, 11:36 PM
I dont think anyone on this thread was critizing anyone for being a bad shot. The only thing I felt anyone looked down upon was lack of effort. .
There is a big difference between someone who is an average shot, or doing practical speed drills and someone who leans back, holds their gun as far away from their body as possible, looks AWAY from the target and shoots off an entire magizine as fast as possible, over and over and over again. I notice these people and I notice the guy who shoots 15 bullets in 10 seconds and puts everyone of them in one ragged little hole.
If you have ever played a game of billiards with someone who wasnt even trying to sink shots, just randomly hitting the cue as hard as possible then you might know better how I feel about those who shoot without the effort to shoot well.
April 24, 2006, 09:15 AM
I'm around people I don't know who have guns I'm not sure they know how to handle.
Yeah, I sort of think i'm paying attention to them.
And yes, I have left the range on occasion.
April 24, 2006, 10:07 AM
Who cares as long as their being safe? Sometimes its win win. My first time out with my Bushy at the 50 yrd line I wasn't doing so good and in between I'd watch the guys next to me and they had a 50DE and weren't hitting squat and were jammomatic'ing it by limp wristing. The obvious owner of it saw me watching them so I offered the advice that they were limp wristing it, which he denied so I offered to show him. I ran 2 mags through it without it jamming once and a respectable grouping. He thanked me and offered to show me how to shoot my AR. I was sure my ammo was my culprit and he proceeded to just drill the center out of the target with it. (Young guy just out of Basic). He had an unfamilier gun, I had an unfamilier gun...win win.
The ones that make me nervous is the crowd of gangbanger types who show up with a plethora of guns and show no semblence of doing anything right, and are there (showing off) teaching their GF's how to shoot.
April 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
have you all not taught your wives/girlfriends how to shoot, or is it that you prefer the single life?
My wife was winning shooting competitions when I was still a tiny little baby, so never had to worry about that.
April 24, 2006, 06:30 PM
My wife hated guns passionately when we first met. Now she accompanies me to the range fairly often and she is a decent shooter. Good QT for us. I was just saying, don't judge just because a guy is teaching his GF how to shoot. If he is showboating and knowitalling (?) that is a different story.
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