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SW_fan
March 15, 2006, 05:55 PM
If someone breaks and enters my home, can I shoot them without legal reprocussion? If so can they sue. If they die, can I be charged?

Just wondering, because a buddy of mine got sued by his burglar when he shot him in the back. I assumed it was because it was in the back. But what if you shoot them in CM but they dont die???? Am I financially liable?

rapier144
March 15, 2006, 06:20 PM
Anything is possible in the court system. You will most likely have the case go in front of a grand jury to let them decide.Can they sue yes if they're still alive.Will they get anywhere with it depends on where you live.If they die then their family will most likely sue. In tennessee here we have what is called the good samaritan law it's a big help here in regards to a lawful shooting. So the best way to win a court case is if there is only one story told.;)

Doug.38PR
March 15, 2006, 06:31 PM
It's my understanding that the justifiable use of deadly force in self defense does not protect you from civil suit. BUT don't quote me on that. I may have that a little wrong I don't have my DPS booklet in front of me that I got from my CHL course. (I live in Texas too)

Rob P.
March 15, 2006, 06:37 PM
You should read the laws of your state as regards to what and when it's legal to shoot someone. For the most part, one must be in immediate danger of death or severe bodily injury before one can shoot.

Being inside your home only means something as applied to a "castle" doctrine if your state has one. You also need to know if you have a duty to retreat before shooting.

If you are inside your home yet there is no reasonable danger, you're not free to shoot someone just because they broke in. If you must retreat before shooting then just shooting without retreating will get you in hot water. A "castle" doctrine law will help as will laws which declare those engaged in criminal activity unable to sue for damages that occur while they commit a crime.

However, you should read and be intimately familiar with ALL the laws of your locality (any local laws as well as State and Fed).

motorep
March 15, 2006, 06:53 PM
As stated, it depends on where you reside. Here in Colorado- if someone breaks in to my house when no one's home the only issue will be- are your dogs licenses current and have they had their shots? If it's when we're home, there is no issue.

kymasabe
March 15, 2006, 06:59 PM
Here in Florida we have the Castle Doctrine. If you're home and someone breaks in with what you believe to be the intention of harming or killing you....fire away! Bible saleman or psycho killer...either one will be looking down the barrel of my SIG and thinking "what was that flash, what was that noise, where did all those big holes in my chest come from?"

als54
March 15, 2006, 07:04 PM
Here in Florida we have the Castle Doctrine. If you're home and someone breaks in with what you believe to be the intention of harming or killing you....fire away! Bible saleman or psycho killer...either one will be looking down the barrel of my SIG and thinking "what was that flash, what was that noise, where did all those big holes in my chest come from?"
+++1

smiling cobra
March 15, 2006, 07:05 PM
yes kemasabe is correct....as a fla ccw permit holder I know the law also statesthat if the bg survives he cannot sue you in civil court...if he dies his survivors cannot civilly sue you...if it is a good shoot and in florida...if you fear for your life....respond accordingly

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 07:06 PM
People seem to have more problems with those burglars that live. Not that I'm out to kill anyone but why should someone who broke into MY HOUSE that I have had to do a lot of crappy jobs to PAY FOR who may want to RAPE and BEAT my wife or family and KILL us get to take me to court and SUE ME for the posessions and money they didn't get a chance to steal? It seems like the burglar gets more money if he takes a bullet and lives than he would have gotten had he stolen something. DEAD burglars don't have a side of the story to tell.

Shoot an intruder in the back? Flip them over and shoot them from the front or say that he was lunging toward your wife, kid, mom whatever and you felt you had to protect them.

Our state house has just passed one of those "Florida Laws" about shooting first and asking questions later.

Ga Johnny
March 15, 2006, 08:30 PM
"If you are inside your home yet there is no reasonable danger, you're not free to shoot someone just because they broke in."

The he!! you say, that's not the way it'll play out at my house. If they just broke into your house that in and of itself is "reasonable" danger, they've already commited one crime (B&E), I'm not gonna wait to see what else he has planned.

RsqVet
March 15, 2006, 08:37 PM
atlctyslkr ---

Seriously bad advise, with crime scene technology and seperate interragation of your family your alteration of the facts will likely be detected and then your credibility is ZERO for the whole thing and you will likely be on the criminal and civial hook, bottom line don't shoot a fleeing burgular or most any fleeing suspect, if you do tell the truth, most states on most days it will go better for you than an attempt to lie and cover up.

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 10:02 PM
Thanks for the back up GAJohnny. I'm not out to intentionally kill someone or on a path to revenge. Just want to live in peace and know that at least the deck isn't so stacked in favor of the criminals. Glad we're getting a Florida law. Basically it forces criminals to think harder. Puts more power in the hands of the law abiding citizens who are productive members of society. Do you really want to share your community with burglars, rapists, ect? Not me. Maybe some of these people will move to states where it's okay to violate people because they don't have the arms or are too worried about the legal ramifications to deal with it.

-I don't drive through your hood so stay out of mine!

Bullz'I
March 15, 2006, 10:17 PM
Does anyone know if New York has the "Castle Doctrine" also? I'm curious to know what the actual law states for breaking and entering, if I am in danger of my life.

SD_Chop
March 15, 2006, 10:21 PM
With all the rapes, murders, abductions, stabbing, shooting, whatever we unfortunatly face it todays world. If a man breaks in my house and my eyes meet his, he can cancel christmas cause church is over. Decent hard working citizens of society like most of us, fall victim to these socail paracytes enough. Its not enough what they do on the outside world? They have to breech my castle and enter my place of peace and family and feed off me here, i think not. Throw me in jail for as long as you want, if im alive and my family is alive its a chance i will take, im not gonna sit around and see what the other outcome might have been, my family is full of cops and put their life on the line everyday we will be damned if our lives are at risk in our dwellings.

Not sure about NY but i know Va gots it!!

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 10:24 PM
This may help http://www.packing.org/state/new_york/

(didn't mean to insult your intelligence if you knew of this site already)

Hardtarget
March 15, 2006, 10:39 PM
Tried by 12, or carried by 6. Make up your mind now...before the "moment".

I made my choice in 1972...the day I got married.
Mark.

Hayley
March 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
"Does anyone know if New York has the "Castle Doctrine". Bullz: I almost did a spit-take when I read this. Given NY's reputation, I couldn't imagine anything so reasonable as a Castle Doc. there. However, Bernard Getz had some legal right to self defence--even in NYC. Hopefully you do too!

kennybs plbg
March 16, 2006, 01:59 AM
NYS Penal Code http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm

Blast away and have fun. You'll be surprised at the rights you have in NY, much less restricted then most other states when it comes down to it.

kenny b

BillCA
March 16, 2006, 02:01 AM
The answer to questions like these can almost always be summed up in two words -- it depends.

It depends...
On where you live - different states have different laws. Know yours well.

On how the BG broke in - was it by stealth or kicking in the door? Did he smash a window or ease through it silently?

On where you are in the house - if the intruder is on a different floor or across a large open "great room" it may be difficult to show immediate threat.

On what you do - What action(s) you take will be scrutinized over and over..
* Did you put yourself between the BG and his only/best exit?
* Does it appear as if you fired from behind?
* Could you have safely retreated from danger (from where you fired)?

On the attitude of the local PD, Chief and Prosecutors toward lawful self defense with a firearm.

Remember that your intent is to stop the person who is threatening your safety. Your primary concern is the survival of yourself and family. Whether Mr. Intruder dies of gunshot wounds or not, is much further down the list of priorities.

DunedinDragon
March 16, 2006, 06:24 AM
cobra,
yes kemasabe is correct....as a fla ccw permit holder I know the law also statesthat if the bg survives he cannot sue you in civil court...if he dies his survivors cannot civilly sue you...if it is a good shoot and in florida...if you fear for your life....respond accordingly

Actually, it goes a bit further than that and even protects you against criminal prosecution as well. Without probable cause you can't even be detained much less arrested.

Just to clarify, Florida has ALWAYS had a Castle Doctrine as do most states. The changes in Florida law is really more a "no retreat" law as well as defining certain parameters under which self-defense will be assumed to be the case. As the law is stated:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Bottom line, if they break into your house, shoot 'em. Shoot 'em in the back if you want because it doesn't matter and has NO effect on you being charged or suffering a civil suit.

SemperKnight
March 16, 2006, 08:04 AM
Here in SC we have the castle law and it extends to out buildings as well. About a year ago a man here in my home town found some young men breaking into his storage building and confronted them with a shotgun. One died the other went to jail. Yes the man was charged but was found to have been within his rights per our state laws and was protected from civil suite by the boys family. SC says if someone/s break in your home they are fair game. In the back, in the side,or in the front doesn't matter. Our goverment and judiciary recognize the fact that a man (or woman) should have the right to defend what he has worked hard all his life to obtain. NC is different. In NC if a burgaler is found in your home you are obligated by law to give them a warning and a chance to escape. The victim has to be in danger of death or serious bodily injury before deadly force can be justifiable and the police will investigate to be sure that the victim had no choice. Also in NC the victim who shoots is not protected from civil actions from surviving perp or dead perps family. So it is best to know your states laws before you decide on your course of action.

erh
March 16, 2006, 08:37 AM
From someone who actually HAS had to resort to firing on an individual as a last resort; despite it being a legal shooting...

THERE WILL BE NO DETAILS; DON'T ASK..!

These things you need to ALWAYS consider:
a.) It will be awful.. Still being alive is likely the only good part of it.
b.) It makes one feel lousy DESPITE the circumstance... Probably forever as far as I can tell...
c.) It should absolutely be the last resort..
d.) If the intruder is already "making a hasty exit w/ "Stuff; it's ONLY stuff" - Let 'em go; learn & better secure your "Castle"! Only do it if there's no other choice..! i.e. - Real threat to yourself, family, etc...
e.) Don't have a gun(s) 'cause you WANT to shoot someone; have one so you can if it comes to that..! Trust anyone who's been their; Avoid it for the rest of your life if humanly possible! (COOL in the movies - SUCKS in real life!!)

(IMHO)

(erh)

SW_fan
March 16, 2006, 09:58 AM
Thanks for all the input. I will look into Texas law on home protection.

I didn't ask because I want to shoot someone. I just wanted to know how it all plays out after the fact, just in case it ever does come down to it.

Thanks to all who responded.

riverrat66
March 16, 2006, 10:01 AM
erh + 1

Been there, done that. Finally someone agrees with me. I've been telling people the same thing and have been called a chicken sh*t for doing so. They tell me "they don't run from no one" and I say if you can avoid a deadly confrontation by all means please do so because it could change your life forever.

Mannlicher
March 16, 2006, 10:30 AM
ask for advise online for health problems? Would you take advise from strangers on how to invest your money?
No? Then why ask legal questions here? If this is a burning issue with you, pay a few bucks, talk to a real lawyer.

Fremmer
March 16, 2006, 11:25 AM
Shoot 'em in the back if you want because it doesn't matter and has NO effect on you being charged or suffering a civil suit.

First, let me say that I don't approve of breaking into a house or any other criminal act. But...

If someone has broken into your house and has their back turned to you, you might consider something other than just shooting them in the back. You might actually consider allowing them to leave (if this is what they are doing), and calling the police. If they aren't in the process of leaving, you might consider telling them that you have a gun and that they had better lay down or they are going to get shot. And then cover them while you call the police.

This way, you won't have to clean up a lot of blood, call a lawyer, be handcuffed and/or interrogated by the police, worry about whether your rounds hit someone else's house/property, think about how you just killed someone, and all of the other nasty stuff associated with shooting someone.

Then again, if you allow that person to leave (or give them the change to surrender) instead of just shooting them in the back, you won't have the satisfaction of shooting someone and taking their life. :rolleyes:

LICCW
March 16, 2006, 12:14 PM
Unless you come looking for us in the bedroom, all you will find is the police oustide when you leave. You come in the bedroom and I'm not waiting to see what you have planned. I am not going to leave the bedroom, so there's no waoory about shooting a BG in the back. Let the police come and clear the rest of the house. as far as NY goes, defense of justification is met as soon as someone is inside your house with regards to reatreat. In the home you are not obligated to retreat. You still must be able to justify the shooting. If the guy was climbing back out your window, you can't pop him. If the crime scene investigation tyurns up that the BG was clearly exiting, you have a problem. If it shows him in your living room your OK. But it will depend on the individual situation and all the particulars therein.

NBT
March 16, 2006, 12:31 PM
If after you shoot the guy and see that he's unarmed, plant a knife in his hand....

Most DAs will let you slide, they have better things to do like going after the REAL bad guys

Derius_T
March 16, 2006, 12:35 PM
This "blast away and have fun", and "blast 'em full of holes", "put a knife in their hand" and such internet bravado is a bit hard to swallow today. :barf:

Do you WANT to take the life of some scumbag who DARED to enter your sacred domain and put his hands on your material posessions? If you have that attitude, you DESERVE to be sued. Perhaps jailed as well. A gung ho, gunslinger attitude and a firearm don't mix.

Now, OTOH, someone breaks into your home, tried to do ANYTHING to a family member, gets violent, ANYTHING that presents danger to you or your family, I would protect my home with any and everything at my disposal. As anyone should.

But carrying out your tv does not constitute a danger to you or your family...:rolleyes:

SW_fan
March 16, 2006, 12:41 PM
Believe me the last thing I want to do is kill a man.

I have heard the horror stories of the psychological trauma it can cause, even to those that are trained to kill.

But like you said if my wife or myself were in danger I would deffinately do what I had to to.

I guess what I was trying to get at is........

If force became nessicary, would it be better to kill or to injure?

riverrat66
March 16, 2006, 12:45 PM
LICCW,
You're right about NY. We used to joke about shooting an intruder. If he's standing in the door and you shoot him make sure he falls inside not outside, same goes for the window, make damn sure he falls inward not outward otherwise you're in big trouble. And naturally, dead men don't talk.

But think about it, it takes an amazing amount of discipline and self control to let someone rob your home while you hide somewhere in that house armed with a firearm. Most people cannot swallow their pride and allow their ego's to be humiliated without reacting especially when holding a firearm in their hands.

Material possessions are not worth taking anyone's life but it's very hard to control one's emotions and actions under those circumstances.

Capt Charlie
March 16, 2006, 01:28 PM
If after you shoot the guy and see that he's unarmed, plant a knife in his hand....
One of many :rolleyes: .

Shoot 'im outside & drag 'im inside. Shoot 'im again in the front after he's been shot in the back.

Can we say conspiracy and tampering with evidence here?

What you do in reality is up to you, and on your heads be it. But to post criminal intent on an Internet board? :rolleyes:

Leaving this thread open would in essence be condoning such actions, which we don't. We advocate responsible firearms ownership.

Closed.