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atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 05:16 PM
Wonder if this joker had a permit for that weopon. I've heard it's REAL hard in CA. Family out there went through many hoops to get it. If they had more permit holders then maybe someone could have stopped it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060315/us_nm/crime_shooting_dc

Any comments on how to handle a situation like this one? Doug I know you've got one!

Jericho9mm
March 15, 2006, 05:29 PM
http://www.imagebucket.net/images/Jericho9mm/denneysshootout.jpg

it looks like they might have a handle on the situation

Doug.38PR
March 15, 2006, 05:42 PM
Any comments on how to handle a situation like this one? Doug I know you've got one!

LOL!!! :p I was going to say upon reading the first bit of your message, for those of you who say my "senarios" are all ridiculous, wild and far fetched, they maybe that, but they are not impossible.
Regardless they do make interesting discussion.

Unfortunately, it becomes far less humorous when it is discussing an actual shooting in which people have died instead of a Doug.38PR senario.:(

More guns, less crime is the most I can say at this point.

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 05:56 PM
It is tragic that this has happend and of course I'm sure everyone here feels for the families and friends affected. Maybe it will make for good discussion when more facts and details are released. Much can be learned from discussing things that actually happend as opposed to what might or could. I do like your senarios Doug. I've read tons of your posts. You should collect them all and publish a book on surving the urban jungle of gas stations grocery stores and fast food.

mete
March 15, 2006, 06:35 PM
While we take hours and even days to think about "scenarios" the real ones happen extremely fast . The only thing that will save you is to get very good training and always be aware, alert, ready to act !!

threegun
March 15, 2006, 08:45 PM
My wife was joking with a friend about my insistense on sitting in a seat facing the front door, preferably with the exit near by. It seems the friends husband is a hillsborough county sheriffs deputy and does the same thing. They laughed at us, called us paranoid, and other names. Once again I will remind her why I want to keep a visual on the entrance at all times. This tragety will keep her quiet until she forgets again. I am just disgusted right now that such vermon walk the earth.

gdeal
March 15, 2006, 08:49 PM
I am glad that someone else started this thread. I heard this earlier today. I didn't know what to post but I was thinking along the lines that if I was eating there and I was carrying, perhaps I would have been able to stop the perp. Who knows. Yeah, CA is a tough state to get a CCW permit. When will people learn.

Abndoc
March 15, 2006, 09:26 PM
California. Unarmed and undefended.

riverrat66
March 15, 2006, 09:41 PM
My wife was joking with a friend about my insistence on sitting in a seat facing the front door, preferably with the exit near by.
My wife thinks I'm nuts because I always insist on sitting with my back to the wall where I can see all the doors and always with an escape route!
California. Unarmed and undefended.
As is England. Even the police don't carry a firearm and it's open season on them!

It may not have made any difference if someone in the restaurant had a firearm, this whole thing may have lasted only seconds and to be able to stop the shooter before he shot the two victims might have been impossible but then again he may have been in there for five minutes.

DAVID NANCARROW
March 15, 2006, 09:41 PM
When will people learn.

It took a horrible incident at Luby's in Killen, Texas to really get people riled up enough to push for a CC law here. That was back when GW was gov and seemed to be a bit more gun friendly. It also helped to push Ann Richards out of the gov seat here. I recall a news clip just before the election showing her out dove hunting-surrounded by body guards, telling the camera that "we don't need a CC law". Well, duh! If I was escorted by Texas Rangers everywhere I went, I'd consider myself rather safe too! (ya moron:mad: )

I won't hold my breath for the great state of California. Too many people in charge there will be trying to blame the gunman's parents or to feel their pain.

Sulaco2
March 15, 2006, 09:48 PM
No Kalifornia will use this to tighten gun laws not allow more carry and if this scum bought it legally watch out. The whole state may have to be written off as un saveable for humanity.

kirkcdl
March 15, 2006, 10:57 PM
I left Cal many years ago,and I know it sounds somewhat cold,but for all the bitching and whining people in California do regarding the laws in their state,they keep voting the morons back into office,so I have a real problem finding my sympathy button...

riverrat66
March 15, 2006, 11:19 PM
kirkcdl +1
Problem is just like New York State there are more "soccer moms" voting then gun owners and I believe Kalifornia has a couple anti-gun senators just like NY's Clinton and Schumer.

Abndoc
March 15, 2006, 11:27 PM
Kirkcdl-- There are over 36,000,000 people in the PRK. I have one vote for myself and any that I can influence to vote my way. Not a big number, all told. While it is true that you get the government you deserve, not all of us are getting the government we desire. Save just a small amount of sympathy for those of us who think right and deserve better. We are friends of the 2nd amendment and the RTKBA.

azurefly
March 16, 2006, 04:26 AM
Norton said the shooter's fatal wound appeared to be self-inflicted.


No joke. Really? :rolleyes:

Who else could have shot the attacker, in Kalifornia?! :barf:


Really, why is it that anti-gun "Just-call-911ers" don't read of this kind of thing and think, "Hey, waitaminute, this proves that cops don't swoop in like Superman and prevent all harm to all people, and maybe -- just maybe -- we're actually all on our own for the most part!"


-azurefly

azurefly
March 16, 2006, 04:32 AM
threegun:

I do the same thing when possible, and I don't even mention to my girlfriend that I'm doing it.

She is of the "head-up-her-@%%-about-security" type, and is PETRIFIED of holding and firing a handgun (we've gone to the range to the tune of $120+ unsuccessfully trying to teach her). It has been all I can do to train her to lock her friggin' doors in her car when driving (her friend/coworker was nearly carjacked recently when he was surrounded by 8 or so "youths" who pounded on his car); to train her to lock the car when parked (she seems to think that thieves care that there may not actually be anything valuable in that knapsack she leaves on her front seat); to train her to not leave her pocketbook on the child seat of the cart at the supermarket...

I clipped a newspaper article this very night that said there were four victims of wallet/purse thefts the other day in our area -- people who had done exactly that. I actually approach women at the supermarket now and then (I've done it a half dozen or so times) and gently remind them that there are professional thieves out there who use teamwork to distract women who are shopping and lift their purses. Now I have an actual article to show my girlfriend. She learns this stuff slowly -- having been a blissninny liberal for a good number of years... [:(] But she's making some progress, thanks to me and the fact that I live in the real world...

-azurefly

threegun
March 16, 2006, 06:32 AM
Azure, I feel you pain. My wife however has evolved from the stinky head syndrome to a mean little thing. Still her level of preparation ends at locking the doors and scanning for wierdo's. She can shoot very well however, so I am lucky there.

HangFire83
March 16, 2006, 07:39 AM
We were talking about this shooting here at work and one of my buddies said "something like that will never happen around here", I told him "that's exactly what those people that got killed probably thought."

Some people just don't get it. Or maybe ignorance is bliss. I choose to be prepared. How about you?

Rob P.
March 16, 2006, 03:17 PM
The saddest part is that some jerkwater representative of "the people" will use this to try to ban all guns everywhere.

The problem with that mindset is that there are some who will continue to possess weapons even if they are banned totally. And eventually, SOMEONE who has no conscience will get their hands on one of those weapons and will kill a lot of people with it in a massacre.

And in this instance, would the outcome have been any different had the BG used a steel pipe? Or a baseball bat?

We don't need a gun ban. What we need in California is the Right and the ABILITY to defend ourselves from wacko's. Wacko's with guns, or pipes, or bats, or even chainsaws.

Vote this time. Vote against ANYONE in office who is against our Rights and for someone else. We might not get better representation, but at least we'll get rid of those who only prey upon us for their own ends.

superdude
March 16, 2006, 04:03 PM
I have been telling my family that I am getting my ccw, and everyone of them say why you dont need one around here. I live in a small Orem Utah, but I have noticed that lately there have been a lot of shooting and high speed chases that end up with some one dead. Now I dont have my ccw yet or even a gun but my class is going to be next tuesday and gun to follow sortly. I have been reading tons of the threads here to better prepare myself. I can find myself scaneing for everthing that might be out of place. I dont want anything bad to happen to me or anyone i know, but if and when it does I will make sure I will do the best I can to help me and my loved ones.:)

jcoiii
March 16, 2006, 04:20 PM
Super,

Congrats on the class and for being willing to stand up for your own.

atlctyslkr
March 17, 2006, 12:18 PM
I'm not going to Denny's

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/restaurant_shooting

EVER!

I wouldn't go to any place at 2:45 a.m. without carrying! I generally avoid being out on the street at that time if I can help it.

We don't have too many Denny's here but we've got a Waffle House at every corner. They don't even have locks on the doors in some of them!

threegun
March 17, 2006, 12:26 PM
It can happen anywhere at anytime unfortunately.

azurefly
March 17, 2006, 03:32 PM
True, threegun.

Sometimes you hear people say, after a vicious crime has happened somewhere, "This used to be such a safe place!

:rolleyes:

Um, NO, it DIDN'T.

Usually they're talking about a place that has zero anything as far as security to keep it a "safe place" -- it's just that they observe that crime didn't used to happen there. That is not nearly the same as a place being "safe." It just means lightning hadn't struck it.

My Publix supermarket down the street is a "safe place," right? I mean, I have never heard of a violent crime happening in it. Does that really make it "safe"? No. No more so than driving a car with bald tires is safe just because you haven't driven over any wet patches of pavement...yet.

Every single place is a place where a criminal could choose to commit a crime. The fact that they don't usually choose certain locations for their crimes does not make those places somehow insulated from crime -- "safe". That's what people seem to mistakenly believe: that a history of being crime-free means a continuation (with some sort of "guarantee") of being crime-free. Anyone who is not hopelessly, blindly optomistic and disingenuous with themselves would recognize that.


-azurefly

atlctyslkr
March 17, 2006, 03:50 PM
I used to thing it was safe where I lived, not anymore, I go to this place to get subs and azurefly; Publix is the anchor store in this shopping center! This used to be a nice part of town when I moved here almost a decade ago.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=74922


Anyone else got any stories about places you frequent where crimes have happend?

tshadow6
March 17, 2006, 05:27 PM
I've actually insisted that my wife "get out of my seat" the few times she sat down facing the door. She likes to see who comes in, but I'm the one ready to do something about it. I never sit with my back to the door. You would think Arnold would have done something by now,

threegun
March 17, 2006, 06:00 PM
I don't care if is disney land, it can happen. Might not be a gun either. Billy Ferry entered a publix (I think) and splashed a pale of gas on a checkout line of customers and lit them on fire. Killed 5 innocent people. My gun might not have helped here but my awareness since I began carrying might have. If I can't carry, I ain't going....simple as that. To many sicko's out there.

riverrat66
March 17, 2006, 06:30 PM
Billy Ferry entered a publix (I think) and splashed a pale of gas on a checkout line of customers and lit them on fire.
That's the trouble with the world today. It's had to believe that no one saw this guy enter the supermarket carrying a "pail" full of gasoline and no one said anything to him or tried to stop him. What were they thinking? Wouldn't you be suspicious of someone like that?

threegun,
Yes your gun definately would have helped because you could have killed that son-of-a-bitch right there on the spot and been done with it. But instead I'll bet he's in some prison or mental hospital while those 5 innocent people are crispy critters.

What a sick world we live in and now another shooting at yet another Denny's in Kalifornia.

adephue
March 17, 2006, 08:51 PM
Everyone likes to rip on Cali (myself included)... but we should also turn some attention to Denny's. I have never been to a Denny's restaruant where I didn't sense the presence of an unstable subculture. I have been to multiple Denny's in IN, NY, NJ, IN, PA, OH, VA, GA, and FL... all have that uneasy aura about them. The food is good and cheap, but the environment leaves a bit to be desired.

An interesting stat would be how many police responses go to each chain of restaraunt annualy for some type of public disturbance. Waffle House can't be far behind.

threegun
March 18, 2006, 08:10 AM
Depends on the location. I visit a couple of Denny's in my area, one is great the other is located closer to a low income area and can be worrisome at times. I avoid that one whenever possible. You can't blame Denny's it the scumbags eating there not the company.

Inverness11
March 18, 2006, 08:58 AM
good heavens (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/18/national/18dennys.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
I've never been a big fan of denny's, but some people obviously dislike it a lot. These things keep happening but still no changes. What would be so hard about total reciprocity? ::sigh:: I'll stick with waffle&steak.

riverrat66
March 18, 2006, 10:28 AM
It's not just Denny's, it could be any restaurant. Denny's just happens to be where these punks are hanging out. I'll bet the guns these jerks are using are all illegal ones at that! So much for gun laws. :mad:

junglebob
March 18, 2006, 11:03 AM
I wish Mr. Harold Hatley, who was killed by the gunman, while intervening had been armed and killed the perp. It was heroic for him to lunge at the killer, unfortunately it cost him his life.

I go to a local Denny's, seems as safe as most restraunts. I do go as armed as I can in Illinois, "fanny pack transport", worse than California in respect to CCW.

threegun
March 18, 2006, 03:57 PM
Mr. Hatley did what many would not be able to do......die fighting. I hope that if faced with the same scenario, I have the intestinal fortitude to do the same. Of course I would be armed and have much better odds but the point is that he acted while others froze like a deer in the headlights.