View Full Version : cyrogenic treatment
September 22, 2000, 12:45 PM
has anyone tried this deep freezing process to reduce barrel stress. If it works Im thinking about sending my wife in for the treatment (just kidding).
My .220 swift shoots very good groups. .25 - .375 with the exception of (almost alway the third round) which jumps out about .75 to 1" from the rest regardless of sample size. I weigh and sort all bullets, trickle all powder, size and trim to .001" but every group I shoot has one flier untill the barrel is warmed up. over the chrono my fps is usuall no greater than 5 fps and s.d. 1.8 - 2.0 except the flier which jumps out about 50 - 60 fps and the s.d. gets up to 20 -22. This makes me think it the loads not the barrel stressing. Any ideas. I use generally a 55gr moly by Seirra semi-spitzer. I dont think the flier is me, honestly. Im using a No 1 ruger and have been shooting it this way for about 25 yrs plus.and I always get the one flier will anyone who has tried the deep freezing process comment.
September 22, 2000, 07:16 PM
Sounds like you have an accurate gun there. It's more of a fouling and heating problem than anything else. Cryo treatment doesn't necessarily make the barrel more accurate, but it does change the nature of how it shoots and will most likely change your groups for the better or worse. It's worth a try, but I'd consider fire lapping, recrowning, or installing a harmonic stabilizer before going for the Cryo if all you are looking for is a more consistant shot-to-shot accuracy. It's interesting to note you stated your barrel shoots better when it gets warmed up. Perhaps you should work up another load or two and see if they are just as finicky.
I'd compare it to doing a transmission overhaul on a car before you try changing the fluid and replacing the filter.
Other things to consider are: How thick is your barrel? Have the locking lugs been lapped, is there any barrel to stock contact? How long are you waiting between shots? (the bore will heat up faster than the rest of the barrel. A little longer pause between shots gives the barrel a chance to absorb bore heat)
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September 23, 2000, 01:54 PM
TGS. I don't know if a cryo job will do you much good or not. That is excellent accuracy for a Ruger #1. As you already know, they can be tempermental. I have one in 30-06 that hits at point A with the first shot, and point B with all the rest (6 inches below point A) with all the shots afterward. I haven't figured out how to fix that one yet. Probably will have to send it back to Ruger one of these days.
September 23, 2000, 04:55 PM
TGS- Paul B. I read an artical once, don`t remember where maybe, American Rifleman.
If you clean your rifle barrel after shooting, the first shot the next time will "not" be the same as the last shots you shot before cleaning, because it is a clean barrel.
So, if I remember right the artical said not to clean your bore after sighting in your rifle.
But if you went trough several rounds, 50 or so clean it then shout it again to clean out the oil etc.
And again i`m not sure where I read this.
And yet...it moves
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September 23, 2000, 10:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B9mmHP:
So, if I remember right the artical said not to clean your bore after sighting in your rifle.[/quote]
I do believe it is good practice to 'foul' your bore before you sight it in. You need to fire about two to five rounds to properly foul the bore so that the next few hundred will be more consistant. I always clean my barrels after each session or every 200 rounds, whichever comes first. But for a target or varmint rifle, you might clean it more often. Just remember to shoot three rounds to foul and warm up your barrel before going for groups.
September 24, 2000, 12:47 PM
Its obvious.A barrel thats warmed up would get beter results. Im getting some loads worked up today and I run (3) thru and then start the groups. I'll run groups of ten then run a brush thru and shoot the next ten. I'll brush the barrel and then shoot another 20 without brushing. That should tell us something.
Ive never bedded the fore-end but have been knocking the idea around. Ive also thought about shooting some groups with the fore-end off, just out of curiousity.
6" difference after the first round is really curious. Ive only had to deal with 3/4 to an inch. 6" might be worth giving Ruger a call at least. That makes me thinks there is some substancial movement taking place somewhere. I cant imagine that the barrel to reciever isnt fitted up tight, could it possibly be? Being that close to the chamber after the first round is fired any slack might be taken up. If the threads are at minimum on the barrel and maximum at the receiver, possibly...both still being in spec. You would only be looking at .0015 or so clearance but that might be enough. Im even curious enough to call them myself and ask them what they think.
September 24, 2000, 05:03 PM
Knowing the Ruger is wood stocked, it might be that the wood is shifting, but I'm more apt to think it's a bore problem if it subsides after the barrel is warm and fouled. Bedding the forend might help at any rate regardless of whether or not this is a bedding problem.
September 24, 2000, 10:01 PM
I had a 25-06 once that did the same thing. After I floated the barrel in the stock it stopped doing that.
September 25, 2000, 12:28 PM
IIRC, Rifle magazine (or Handloader??) had an article maybe 6- 10 years ago about getting rid of those flyers in the Ruger #1. Had something to do with re-engineering the forend hanger.
It may be profitable for you to bark up that tree. Your accuracy level is pretty good for that rifle, so it's a keeper even with the 1 MOA flyers. To get rid of them will only make it sweeter!
September 27, 2000, 11:18 PM
My understanding of the cyrogenic treatment is that it lets the atoms of the metal realign themselves into a more natural alignment and makes the metal much stronger. Some women use the treatmen on new pantyhose to make them last longer.
September 28, 2000, 12:11 PM
Naaaaaaaaaaaa, Really! Bull
September 28, 2000, 11:37 PM
Can we treat the women too so they last longer?
September 30, 2000, 11:04 AM
boy some of you guys dont know anything. When you want to try and make a woman last longer you send her to the taxidermist.
September 30, 2000, 02:26 PM
OK guys. I guess I should have been more detailed in describing what my #1 does. The first shot out of a cold barrel, clean or fouled, is 6 inches higher than the group. If I shoot it for a while, then play with other rifles at the range, and go back to the Ruger, then with the cold barrel, the first shot is out of the group by 6 inches.
If the fellow who wants to try shooting with the foreend off, place only yje tip of the hanger on the sandbag. Otherwise the weight of the rifle, resting on the hanger will affect the spring, slowing down the hammer.
The article about "re-engineering" the foreend hanger was in RIFLE Magazine. I have it, but will have to hunt it up. You can also find it in the book, MR. SINGLE SHOT'S GUNSMITHING IDEA BOOK by the late Frank de Haas. It is a paperback put out bt TAB BOOKS Inc. Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17214.
Copyright date was 1983, so I have no idea if it is still in print. If not, you can probably find a copy at either Amazon or Barnes and Noble.
You don't really re-engineer the forearm hanger, but drill and tap it for a machine screw that pushes up on the barrel. One of this years copies of Rifle Magazine also has an article about doing this, but I'd have to look for that one as well.
Now does this idea work? I have a #1B in .300 Win. Mag. that did 3 inch groups. After having the screw put in, the rifle will now do 3/8 inch groups with ammo it likes, and usually one inch with everything else. It worked for me. Now I'm wondering if it will help that 06?
October 3, 2000, 12:29 AM
RE the frozen panty hose. Straight from the horses mouth. There is a local guy that does cyrogenic treatment on various items. He was on tv and told about freezing panty hose for women to make them last longer.
TGS try this remove the action and barrel from the stock. Wrap onion skin paper around it. Reassemble carefully. Dissassemble carefully and check the paper. I bet you have at least one crushed spot in the paper that should not be there. That is where the stock is pressing harder that the rest of the fitted area. You should be able to spot it easily as you can look at it and be able to say that that spot should not be there.
August 17, 2002, 02:23 PM
who makes them as an add on ,thanks,keith
August 17, 2002, 11:23 PM
If your first shot out of a cold barrel is different than a warm barrel you may have a stock problem. A spot on the stock is pushing harder when the barrel is warm than when it is cold. After the barrel warms the stock problem is consistent. Lay the rifle in the hot sun for about a half hour and then shoot it. If the problem is not there you probably have a bedding problem of some type. I had two different rifles with this problem, floating the barrel cured both of them.
Just my 2 cent worth.
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