PDA

View Full Version : Scary day at the range


Texas9000s
March 2, 2006, 11:43 PM
First trip to the range since picking up my pistol after having some warranty work done on it, and I wanted to check it out. I get to my "usual" range, pay, go out and get ready to start shooting. I look, through my safety glasses, to the left, man in his 40's hearing protection, no glasses, his kid maybe 17, no glasses, two other people with them in the next lane, no glasses. Look to my right, another 40 something with two 20 somethings, no glasses. Everybody is rapid firing. Three lanes further to the right are three more folks all in their 20's, no glasses, no hearing protection. A couple of them are going back and forth to the car (which you could hear, faintly, the rap music playing from). One of them comes back to the range with a 12 guage pistol grip short barrel shotgun and procceeds to destroy what's left of the chicken wire behind the targets. At this point I'm off the firing line, smoking a cigarette waiting for the range officer who never comes down. Most of the clowns take off at the cease fire, so I go back to the line and start shooting. After about 50 flawless rounds of junk ammo, another group of "yahoos" show up. Three more 20 somethings, in flip flops, and ball caps. One has a revolver and he proceeds to spin the clyinder, loads it and starts shooting, never bothering to put out his cigarette, much less put on any safety gear. I finish my magazine, and start packing up. About this time one of the 20 somethings finishes his six shots, holds the revolver up and blows into the barrel.:eek: His buddy racks the slide on his pistol, over his head, while walking DOWN the line to the next lane. I'm out of there, inside to tell the girl behind the counter that the range officer NEEDS to get out there. I go home and call the range, the officer procceds to tell me that they really don't enforce the glasses and hearing protection rules all that much, and that they were short handed tonight. I'm thinking that I'll be shooting elsewhere from now on.

DerDer
March 3, 2006, 12:08 AM
Metrosexuals are going to destroy America.

chris in va
March 3, 2006, 12:09 AM
Yikes. If that happened at the ranges I visit, there'd be a serious problem, maybe some arrests. Good thing you left.

Lutefisk
March 3, 2006, 12:15 AM
It seems you're in Texas, and I hope it's not the range I belong to (in Houston) In fact, I know it isn't because our range is as tight as a drum.
You got off lucky, and so did the management that nobody was shot.
Totally unacceptable, I'll repeat, never go back.

Texas9000s
March 3, 2006, 12:18 AM
When I got home, I called the range, and the assistant range manager told me that after I had called that behavior to their attention they "removed" those individuals. Kinda makes me feel better about using that range. I just felt that some of the people there tonight were not taking things as seriously as they should with a deadly weapon and live amunition. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but it's not like dropping a beer bottle and cutting your foot, an accident at a gun range could prove deadly.

mxwelch
March 3, 2006, 12:38 AM
That happens everywhere. I go to the range and shoot on a mat with a coat and glove and some people always show up with a Glock and a SKS. They then proceed to fire as fast as they can pull the trigger from the hip and can barely keep their rounds on the backstop. They then look at me like I'm some kind of freak for actually AIMING and hitting my target.:D They ones that make me nervous are the ones who always line up next to you and want to fire about 2 feet behind the line.

czc3513
March 3, 2006, 02:47 AM
Well....
Some people like to shoot fast and some people like to shoot slow.
Sometimes I shoot fast.
Sometimes people dont wear eye protection.
I never wear eye protection.
Sometimes people get hit with brass.
I have hit people and property (truck) with brass.
I have swept people and I have been swept by people.
My point is that I am not perfect, and that some people do not follow safety rules.
Some people like to get all their shots through one hole, while other people like to blow stuff up.

mxwelch
March 3, 2006, 03:52 AM
Well....
Some people like to shoot fast and some people like to shoot slow.
Sometimes I shoot fast.
Nothing wrong with rapid fire, but if you don't aim or hit anything what's the point?

Sometimes people dont wear eye protection.
I never wear eye protection.
One trip to the ER to get some crud dug out of your eye(s) will make you reconsider.

I have swept people and I have been swept by people.
:confused:

My point is that I am not perfect, and that some people do not follow safety rules.
Safety isn't about perfection, it's about common sense.

Some people like to get all their shots through one hole, while other people like to blow stuff up.
I shoot a 50 BMG at times so I know a little about "blowing" stuff up. If you don't hit what you're aiming at you don't "blow" anything up.:rolleyes:

threegun
March 3, 2006, 07:13 AM
I have swept people and I have been swept by people.


The one rule that cannot be broken is keeping the muzzel pointed down range. If it is broken, and someone gets "swept", the sweeper should be banned for life.....its that important. You want to lose an eye or your hearing and thats a personal decision/problem. Muzzel disciplin breakdowns might involve death or injury to others and that is not acceptable.

At an IPSC match I used to shoot if you sweep any part of your own body ie hand, arm, anything you are gone for the day. They ask you to leave immediatly.....presumably to think about it.

cscoios
March 3, 2006, 07:17 AM
Mxmelch - Well said.

I sometimes feel like a trip to the range could be my last. I've been hit by richocheets several times, twice knocked the breath out of me. I always wear eye and ear proctection, but something unnerving about picking chunks of metal out of your shirt. I have yet to get hit in the face thankfully, so I'm still good with the ladies.:)

wolfdog45
March 3, 2006, 09:49 AM
I'm sure glad I have my own shooting range so no idiots can show up and ruin my day.

rha600
March 3, 2006, 10:05 AM
Well....
Some people like to shoot fast and some people like to shoot slow.
Sometimes I shoot fast.
Sometimes people dont wear eye protection.
I never wear eye protection.
Sometimes people get hit with brass.
I have hit people and property (truck) with brass.
I have swept people and I have been swept by people.
My point is that I am not perfect, and that some people do not follow safety rules.
Some people like to get all their shots through one hole, while other people like to blow stuff up.

good thing you're like 3000 miles away from where I am.

Vic303
March 3, 2006, 10:16 AM
So tell us where this range is, so we can avoid it!

Big Calhoun
March 3, 2006, 10:26 AM
Even as a 'newbie' at the range I've been going to, safety is paramount! The range I use in Dallas seems to enforce the rules pretty well and there is a good mix of responsible people that come in. Granted, I've only been using it for about a month (about 2x a week), but I feel very comfortable there. One persons show-boating could be someone elses funeral...

TSII
March 3, 2006, 11:32 AM
Here is one for you:
Range Master a couple of weeks ago, @ the 7yr line in the middle of a 18 rd volley, female center lanes (12 shooters on line), draws on the whistle and fires two rds in 3 sec, during the second round the barrel of the S&W .357 separates from the frame (broke at the threads) and flies down range landing near the 2yr line barrel still facing the target. CAN YOU SAY CEASE FIRE!!!!!!
:eek:

threegun
March 3, 2006, 11:58 AM
Saw a guy blow the wood grip off his 1911. Blew the floorplate and live ammo out the bottom and destroyed both grips one completely off. Only a few splinters and a tired sphincter to show for it.......lucky man.

orangeTJ
March 3, 2006, 06:01 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why anybody would want to shoot at a range with no ear protection. How can that be fun???

I guess I'm fortunate that the range I shoot at is managed very seriously and they always have at least two range officers on hand. Frankly, given what you were describing, I would have gotten the heck out of there immediately. I've been there once when a shooter on the rifle side approached the bench during cease fire and she was promptly removed from the line. There is NO room for goofing off at a range.

orangeTJ
March 3, 2006, 06:03 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why anybody would want to shoot at a range with no ear protection. How can that be fun???

I guess I'm fortunate that the range I shoot at is managed very seriously and they always have at least two range officers on hand. Frankly, given what you were describing, I would have gotten the heck out of there immediately. I've been there once when a shooter on the rifle side approached the bench during cease fire and she was promptly removed from the line. There is NO room for goofing off at a range.

Mannlicher
March 3, 2006, 06:20 PM
I think you are putting way too much thought into other's behavior. The only person you can control is you. Just set a good example, and don't obsess about others.

Invicta
March 3, 2006, 06:26 PM
all you need to do is find the loudest possible gun you can, go back to the range and fire off a bunch of rounds when these non hearing protection idiots are around. maybe then they will be too preoccupied with their ringing ears that they won't come back to the range.

OuTcAsT
March 3, 2006, 06:39 PM
I do not blame you for leaving. Fortunatelly the range I use is run VERY professionally, there are a minimum of three RSO's on duty on each range, and the only "sweeping" that is allowed is for casings :D usually the officers will warn once and try to educate the shooters on proper technique, then, if you screw up again YOU ARE GONE !!!

And I DO observe other shooters because MY life is important to ME. It is called "situational awareness" and if you do not practice it, then I fear that you may become another statistic.:mad:

azredhawk44
March 3, 2006, 06:56 PM
Some people like to get all their shots through one hole, while other people like to blow stuff up.


I love blowing stuff up! My M14 makes rocks the size of heads explode out in the desert!! It's really cool! Hit a rock with a FMJ bullet moving at 2500+fps and it will shatter with parts flying every direction for 10-20 feet.

But I have to AIM to hit those rocks, especially when they are more than 75 yards away and I'm on iron sights with bad eyesight...

Blowing stuff up sometimes requires some decent marksmanship...

Personally, I'm awfully impressed by those guys who can give George Washington's face a shave on a quarter at 300 yards.

Phxdog
March 3, 2006, 10:12 PM
Quote: "I think you are putting way too much thought into other's behavior. The only person you can control is you. Just set a good example, and don't obsess about others."

You can't be serious! I depend on the Rangemaster to insure a safe shooting environment where perhaps dozens of people are discharging deadly weapons in my immediate vicinity. If the Rangemaster is not doing the job, you better believe that the behavior of others is paramount in my mind as I beat a hasty retreat.

To passively "set a good example" in a situation like that can get you or somebody else killed, though I suppose you would die very politely!

Walter
March 4, 2006, 12:03 AM
Mannlicher said,
I think you are putting way too much thought into other's behavior. The only person you can control is you. Just set a good example, and don't obsess about others.
I beg your pardon, but the reason I carry a concealed handgun is so
that when other peoples' behavior gets out of hand, and becomes a threat
to me, I CAN exercise some control over it. Turning the other cheek and just
walking away doesn't work every time. If it did, I wouldn't bother carrying a gun.

Walter

mxwelch
March 4, 2006, 05:56 AM
I think you are putting way too much thought into other's behavior. The only person you can control is you. Just set a good example, and don't obsess about others.
Their actions could very well kill me or someone else. When my health is concerned, I'm concerned. If they want to shoot themselves, fine by me, but people like this always end up shooting someone else.

Bad advice for range etiquette.

Texas9000s
March 4, 2006, 10:59 AM
I'm glad that this post has generated some discussion. Kinda why I started the thread, that and to vent. I felt like one, I should leave because I did not want something tragic to happen to me, and two that I should (and did) notify someone, because I would hate to have had something tragic happen, that I could have done something about and didn't. At the same time, you kind of feel like a kindergardener "tattling" on the others.

For the record, I've been going to this range for some time and before this, I've never witnessed this type of behavior. It is good to know that the range officer "said" he dismissed those individuals right after it was brought to his attention. I'll probably go back to test the waters. If I'm not comfortable, I'll just leave and find a different range to shoot on.

For those who don't wear eye and ear protection I think you are asking for trouble. I only have two eardrums, and two eyes. The eardrums will heal, but how much enjoyment do you really get with that ringing in your ears? The human eye is one of the few organs that CANNOT be transplanted, why risk it. I have to wear eye protection at work (automotive). I've heard stories, and seen pictures of what can happen at a shop without eye protection and could only imagine what a shell casing or other "gun hazard" could do to your eye. Plus I enjoy looking at my wife and kids, kind of hard to do if you are blind.

2400
March 5, 2006, 12:12 PM
I have swept people and I have been swept by people.

You say this like it's OK to do.:confused:

Springfield XD40 Man
March 5, 2006, 01:15 PM
Fortunately for me, I've got my own personal range...a neighbor's 90 acre ranch. Its just me, myself, and I.:D I've got no "idiots" or distractions to worry about.

Russ5924
March 5, 2006, 01:28 PM
Where I shoot there is no very fast rapid fire allowed.Three young guys were shooting about as fast as possible ,the range officer told them to stop it and slow down.As soon as he left they went right back to rapid fire again,and just couldn't understand why they got kicked out:eek: :mad:

357shooter
March 5, 2006, 01:43 PM
Luckily the range I go to is small and not very many people there at any given time.I would say that would make me pretty nervous to have that kind of behavior going on.The few people I have met there have been very safety minded.I always wear my ear protection and glasses especially after getting hit in the cheek with something just under my glasses,one more inch higher and I would have caught that right in the eye if I didn't have the glasses.

BerettaBuckeye
March 5, 2006, 02:30 PM
The very last time I visited a public outdoor range some moron stood behind the firing line twirling a 6" revolver on his index finger. That was about 3 years ago and I decided at that point I'm done risking my safety around unsupervised idiots. Honestly I'm surprised we don't hear about more "accidents" at public ranges

orionengnr
March 5, 2006, 06:23 PM
quote:
"For those who don't wear eye and ear protection I think you are asking for trouble. I only have two eardrums, and two eyes. The eardrums will heal, but how much enjoyment do you really get with that ringing in your ears? The human eye..."
end quote.

The eardrum is not at issue. Yes, an eardrum will heal if ruptured, but the parts in the middle ear that are damaged by exposure to loud noise do not heal. They are damaged, do not not heal, and the damage is cumulative. Do a search for OSHA, or hearing damage to get more details.

There are plenty of people my age with hearing damage. Many more will follow. Please do not join them.

czc3513
March 5, 2006, 08:59 PM
2400, I do not think that sweeping people is OK.
I have done it without intention but I am more carefull now.

GlocksRfun
March 5, 2006, 09:44 PM
All the ranges I've ever been to, indoor or out, all have enforced the rules of the range.

James K
March 5, 2006, 09:58 PM
"I think you are putting way too much thought into other's behavior. The only person you can control is you. Just set a good example, and don't obsess about others."

Well, if I am on a range and someone waving a gun around puts a bullet through ME, it becomes my business pretty quickly. To avoid that, I want ranger officers to control everyone's behavior where safety is concerned.

Even aside from personal danger, nothing gets a range shut down faster than a fatality, then everyone loses.

Jim

Mannlicher
March 6, 2006, 07:08 PM
Walter said:I beg your pardon, but the reason I carry a concealed handgun is so
that when other peoples' behavior gets out of hand, and becomes a threat
to me, I CAN exercise some control over it. Turning the other cheek and just
walking away doesn't work every time. If it did, I wouldn't bother carrying a gun.

I think you misunderstood walter. I was speaking of range etiquette. Geez. I hope I dont run into you with your concealed handgun when you are having a bad hair day. :)

fairview mick
March 6, 2006, 07:48 PM
CZC
If you did what you said in your post at he the range I use, you would be run out of there faster than you could talk about it. Flashing someone with your gun is pretty serious, and if you want to be stupid enough not to wear glasses or hearing protection, that's one thing, but one pass of your muzzle past me and I would have my hand on my CCW.
The range officer at our club would physically throw your silly butt out.

Bender711
March 6, 2006, 08:09 PM
I found one of the worst range reports ever.
http://www.soupsandwich.net/rangerdate2.html

I think that one takes the cake.

OSU_good_ol_boy_33
March 6, 2006, 11:16 PM
wow... it is not ok to sweep anyone inless you are intending to shoot at them... and you should never allow anyone to sweep you w/ the barrel of a gun...

czc3513
March 7, 2006, 03:34 AM
wow... it is not ok to sweep anyone inless you are intending to shoot at them... and you should never allow anyone to sweep you w/ the barrel of a gun...
:rolleyes:
I do not think that sweeping people is OK.
I have done it without intention but I am more carefull now.
I do not see how you can stop someone from sweeping you.
It probably happens more often than you think.
It happens all the time at the shop I go to.
It is usually fast, with an empty gun.
I do not think that I have ever swept anyone with a loaded gun.

That is a wild story Bender711.

Chris1911
March 7, 2006, 02:06 PM
+1 for Jim Keenan
Not only should you be watching out for your safety and the safety of others, but if people are horsing around at the range and there is an accident, its just giving ammo to the anit-gun liberals who will further their attacks on responsible gun owners.

SBrocker8
March 7, 2006, 02:40 PM
I'd never want to shoot at a range that only allows one shot a second. I'm a realist with my guns, not a friggin hobbyist who only punches holes in paper and can't understand why anyone would ever want to carry concealed or own an AK47. That's why I find friendly sandpits and do whatever kind of shooting I feel like there...

Walter
March 7, 2006, 11:35 PM
Mannlicher said,
Walter said:I beg your pardon, but the reason I carry a concealed handgun is so
that when other peoples' behavior gets out of hand, and becomes a threat
to me, I CAN exercise some control over it. Turning the other cheek and just
walking away doesn't work every time. If it did, I wouldn't bother carrying a gun.

I think you misunderstood walter. I was speaking of range etiquette. Geez. I hope I dont run into you with your concealed handgun when you are having a bad hair day.
__________________
M1911.Org

Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
Mannlicher is offline Report Bad Post

Mannlicher, I did not intend to come across as belligerent, and if I did,
I'm sorry. I only intended to convey the idea that I won't stand by
and tolerate dangerous behavior if I believe it might endanger my life.

I've been shooting for nearly 50 years. I did 2 tours in Viet Nam in the
Marines. As a grunt, not a REMF. I have had a CCL for 10 years. No
incidents. I believe I have a pretty good handle on when NOT to fire.

That said, I think I can recognize a life-threatening situation if I see it.
And I just don't have any qualms about using deadly force if I decide it
is the right thing to do.

So it's not about a "bad hair day", or my mood, or any of that. It is all
about the situation at hand. If I feel threatened, I may well respond
with force. Depending on the situation, it may be "deadly" force.

I'll make that call, and I'll deal with the aftermath.

Walter

Lonestar.45
March 8, 2006, 03:18 PM
I would not, under any circumstances, put up with that kind of behavior. My bags would be packed and I would be GONE. You did good by leaving. If the rangemaster would not put a stop to that behavior, I would not come back. Chances, are, if they let that kind of behavior go on, they won't be around very long anyway, once a good solid lawsuit bankrupts them.

Safety is not something to be relaxed about on the range, ever. I won't tolerate it and won't be around it. I went out and got my CHL so that it will improve my chances of coming home to my wife and kids at the end of the day, not so that I can be the victim of an AD from a moron at a public range while I'm practicing.

Model520Fan
March 8, 2006, 10:49 PM
I do not see how you can stop someone from sweeping you.
It probably happens more often than you think.
It happens all the time at the shop I go to.
It is usually fast, with an empty gun.
I do not think that I have ever swept anyone with a loaded gun.


I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're too ignorant to be allowed to have your hands on a gun, and if you're telling the truth, the shop you go to is run by an idiot.

You need to learn the four rules of gun safety and follow them. You also need to UNDERSTAND them before you pick up another gun. Barring that, I'm glad you don't live near me.

czc3513
March 8, 2006, 11:51 PM
lol
The shop keeps the handguns, in the glass display cabinet, pointed towards the front corner of the shop.
They are pointed at any customers in the front corner of the shop, and any customers in front of the far half of the glass display cabinet.
When a handgun is taken out, or put into the glass display cabinet, any customers in the front corner of the shop, and any customers in front of the far half of the glass display cabinet, might be swept.

meplat
March 11, 2006, 12:16 AM
I realize that with nineteen whole years of life behind you, and considerably less time than that shooting, you have a world to learn. It would be preferable if you either learned it before touching a firearm, or at least were under the direct supervision of someone not afflicted with recto-cranial inversion while touching any arm before you do learn.

I do not see how you can stop someone from sweeping you.

Can't. Can darn sure be sure they know just how badly they've screwed up. And have DONE so.

It probably happens more often than you think.

Since I'm pretty situationally aware, I doubt that.

It happens all the time at the shop I go to.

Dood, you need badly to find a new gunshop. The guys who are running yours don't know jack schitt about firearms.

It is usually fast, with an empty gun.

There is NO SUCH thing as an "empty gun". As to fast, how fast do you reckon a bullet travels?

I do not think that I have ever swept anyone with a loaded gun.

See above. And you "don't think"??? Sheesh...I knew better than that by the age of five...so I don't think 19 holds water as an excuse.

czc3513
March 11, 2006, 04:02 AM
There is NO SUCH thing as an "empty gun".
How do you clean a loaded gun? :rolleyes:
Just joking... ;)

OK, I might have been a little irresponsible....
But in my defense, I was not raised around guns.
My family has very little interest in guns.
I was "given" a handgun about a year ago and I am still learning about it and responsible gun ownership.
I expect to learn more and more about guns and responsible gun ownership for the rest of my life.
I am a lot more carefull now.

How many shops keep the handguns, in the glass display cabinet, pointed towards the front of the shop???
:confused:

JesterXD40
March 11, 2006, 09:40 AM
natural selection, hopefully they kill themselfs before they do anyone else.

meplat
March 11, 2006, 10:52 PM
How do you clean a loaded gun?
Just joking...

Really not a bad question for one asked in jest. As long as a firearm is in it's assembled state, it's NEVER "unloaded". Let me give you an example...I know an ol' Mississippi boy who found out the hard way at a gun show in Texas several years ago. His friend (both dealers working the same booth), took a brand new, still in the box, never opened .45 semi out of the packaging, pointed at his buddy in a joshing manner, pulled the trigger. The piece was still loaded with a proof load from the factory. Sure, the guy made a fortune from this incident, but I wouldn't sell one of MY testicles or a good portion of my upper thigh for what he got for his. Once disassembled and incapable of firing, it is no longer a firearm. Until that point, it should always be treated as "loaded". No way for anyone to get hurt in correct muzzle awareness is practiced at all times.

OK, I might have been a little irresponsible....

You could have possibly left yourself open to having to live with taking a life you never meant to take. Really bad karma, that.

But in my defense, I was not raised around guns.

Then please learn what you can, and THINK about everything else you do with a potentially deadly tool. You don't sound from this post as smug, and I think that with some time, you'll be an asset to the shooting community...IF you don't do something that turns out to be the most regrettable part of your life.

My family has very little interest in guns.

Sorry to hear that. My youth was spent at my Dad's heels learning about shooting, hunting, etc. Good times. My kids' days were similarly spent at my heels. Hopefully someday, you'll be able to do that for YOUR progeny. I'd really like to think that when that day comes, you'll do it safely and responsibly. You and yours will develop a deep link from sharing good fun that also teaches COMPLETE responsibility for all your actions.

I was "given" a handgun about a year ago and I am still learning about it and responsible gun ownership.

This is one good place. Some of us old farts may come off as highly unaccepting of unsafe behavior, and truth is, most are. Some of us (unfortunately) have seen first hand the results of bad habits. I have. Wish to God above I hadn't. There are several other great places. There should be a range SOMEWHERE near you that offers NRA firearms classes. I'd suggest hunting one of these down. Also, finding a mentor who really knows about safety and gun handling is a good idea. You'd be amazed at what you can learn from a grumpy old fart. I try to keep a few of them close by all the time, but alas, the older I get, the harder it gets to find anyone grumpier and older than me who is still alive and able to teach. Just make sure that when you choose your mentor, you choose carefully. A bad teacher is a terrible thing. A good one will give you advice and pointers that will stay with you well beyond your shooting years.

I expect to learn more and more about guns and responsible gun ownership for the rest of my life.
I am a lot more carefull now.

THAT is encouraging. :)

How many shops keep the handguns, in the glass display cabinet, pointed towards the front of the shop???

The thing is, guns in a cabinet don't fire themselves. It's when they come into contact with human hands that the potential for trouble rears it's ugly head. If you ask to see one of the weapons and the clerk "sweeps" you with it, kindly correct him. If he doesn't take kindly correction well, ask to have his manager kindly correct him. If his manager doesn't see the need for adhering to the the four rules, take your business elsewhere. If one blue pill got out of a factory, then however small the odds, another one might get through the loading dock doors one day. If that should happen, you do not want to be on the other end of that "unloaded" gun.

__________________
"Irrational behavior is part of human nature."

There is another apt quote I like much better than that one. Sure most in this forum are familiar with it. "Stupidity, if left alone, is self correcting." R.A. Heinlein

czc3513
March 12, 2006, 04:30 AM
There is another apt quote I like much better than that one.
My quote, is my own quote.
I have not heard the phrase before.
It was a response to a moderator who said that my behavior is irrational.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
:) :) :)