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Doug.38PR
February 27, 2006, 10:22 PM
Okay:
You are walking through the parking lot one night to your car. It's after the movie is over. How do you spot and confront trouble when it is looking for you?


I try to watch in between cars, I watch what is in the cars around me if I can, I try to watch for suspicious cars going through the parkinglot or down the street (driving real slow as though spying me).


But what if I did spot something suspicious? It's too easy to say "Just pull your gun." But at what point? What exactly are you looking for? A subtle approach? A quick strike? What in detail qualifies as suspicious?

#18indycolts
February 27, 2006, 10:51 PM
I hate to say it, but ya gotta wait and see what happens. If I feel threatened I put my hand on my piece. In order to draw it, I gotta see/hear/feel a danger.

Hardtarget
February 27, 2006, 11:57 PM
I think it comes down to "how do you feel between your nose and knees". I've never been in a attack/defense situation. Still...at the core...humans still have some kind of internal trigger...the gut feel that trouble is here. You may be seeing indicators, so pay close attention and look for those movements.

I watch hands. If hands go into a pocket...are they moving as to intersect with my line of travel?...if a group, have they seperated?..are they just waiting/watching from shadows?...are they whispering/talking quietly (planning)? Well, you see where this is going. Every encounter is different. Got to play it by ear. Like I've said...never been there. I'll probably get caught with my mind somewhere else...at the wrong time.
Mark.

Trip20
February 28, 2006, 01:43 AM
Question for Texans: Do your concealed carry classes teach you how to recognize shoot/don't shoot situations on any level?

stephen426
February 28, 2006, 04:53 AM
Most of the time, if you look them square in the eye, they will choose a less wary target. Just be sure to adjust your piece while you are doing so. Un fortunately, there is a fine line between brandishing and legitimate self defense. I believe that drawing a weapon is only acceptable when there is a credible threat, and that threat must be sufficient to cause death or grave bodily harm for you to escalate to lethal force. There is probably some grey area here but you have to use your judgement and common sense. If you hesitate too long, you may not get the chance to draw and you might even lose your weapon. I've heard that some people carry in their jacket pockets with their guns in their hands. If you really go to theaters that are that bad or feel that threatened, that ay be the way to go. Just be sure to stare down any potential attackers first and your chances of having to shoot someone will go waaaaaaaaaaaay down.

invention_45
February 28, 2006, 10:56 AM
The way the law reads in Florida, it looks to me like if you pull (i.e., show) your gun in an attempt to deter a crime in progress, you are not brandishing.

The problem is that it has to be a crime in progress. So when you pull the gun, you may stop the crime from progressing. If you do that before any evidence is created of the crime you stopped ever happening, then it's your word against the criminal's. And now he's seen your gun and can describe it.
So, if there's not already damage or some kind of evidence already, you can't get away with pulling your gun until you HAVE to shoot.

If you are about to walk into the parking lot and see something suspicious but not clearly criminal going on, you'd be a fool to pull your gun out. But there's nothing wrong with giving the grip a little tug to loosen it in your holster, or clicking the safety off, or whatever might make drawing faster for you. At the same time, this sends the message that there might be something right there for you to use against the bad guy, which he does not want, without enabling him to describe your gun.

If this were me, and I saw anything that was clearly not right or I just had a "bad feeling" (see below), my first act would NOT be to just get my gun ready and stomp out into the parking lot. I would probably wait until several other people were also moving into the lot and then go at the same time. I would do as described above, to hint to any miscreants that I am armed, so that if he's determined, he'll pick another of those other people as his target rather than me.

Now, if you are trying to say that there are signs that somebody in or near the parking lot is fixated on YOU as a target, well, that doesn't change the legalities of when you can defend yourself with deadly force. You are faced with knowingly stepping into a situation you strongly think is dangerous but has not yet turned threatening to life and limb.

The problem with that is the bad guy, in this case, is ready to go. You are not, and cannot act as quickly as he can. In this case, I would go back inside and see whether I could figure out a safe way to reach my car. Is there a security guard? Will the manager walk out with you? This might make you feel like a wus, but what do you like better, that or death/serious injury by a criminal because you put yourself where you couldn't react fast enough, or life in prison because you reacted too fast?

For methods of dealing with that "bad feeling", see The Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker.

Glenn E. Meyer
February 28, 2006, 11:25 AM
Doug - given all your scenarios and questions about when to pull your gun - I really think that if you are serious student of the art, you would greatly benefit from some of the fine tactical classes around the country that discuss such incidents and tactics.

OPS, Insights, LFI, Rangemaster, Moses, KRtraining, etc. all go through this kind of thing in great detail.

How about this - you see something suspicious - When do I pull my gun?

Instead, maybe you just turn around and go back the other way. Or do you want to pull your gun? I don't mean to be rude but you are constantly posting ways to pull your gun.

You pull your gun when you are in fear of grievous bodily harm. You need to build awareness and tactical evaluation skills. You need to read up or study up about awareness levels and how BGs approach and risky situations.

That will do you a world of good as compared to continuing scenarios that seem to want always to funnel to a gun usage.

Dwight55
February 28, 2006, 07:24 PM
Doug asked: "You are walking through the parking lot one night to your car. It's after the movie is over. How do you spot and confront trouble when it is looking for you?"

Personally, . . . I look for the trouble as hard, if not harder than it is looking for me, . . . and I look for ways out.

It starts with parking the vehicle where the location does not offer trouble.

It progresses to being observant, vigilant, watchful: pick the term.

Next is looking for alternatives, . . . 3 guys on the park bench 40 feet in front of me, . . . looking hard at me and my wife. I'll hang back and wait for another couple to catch up (if the movie just let out, . . . there are others) and then there will be 4 of us, . . . or maybe, . . . I'll just go across the street, . . . if they move across, . . . we're turning and going back to the theater.

Remember that the weapon is the last means.

May God bless,
Dwight

Sir William
March 2, 2006, 02:00 AM
www.netflix.com www.oldies.com Pay per view? I stopped going to the movies. Cheaper and no parking lot fender benders. OTT, awareness BEFOREHAND. A good stentorial, "Good evening!" causes most criminal activity to cease. Criminals hate being outed and recognized.

RsqVet
March 2, 2006, 09:15 AM
This is not a senario,

It's a general question best addressed by taking a serious class at any one of a number of places mentioned previously or many more not already covered.

A good but very distant second would be to read any number of books on the subject.

Any of these outlets will help you refine your skill in keeping your situational awarness at it's peak as well as addressing many other issues.

As to when you draw your weapon, the obvious anser in most all instances unless you want to look the fool is when you are threatened (not when you feel a little sphincter pucker, when there is a discernable threat to you) and you have reached the gun part of the force spectrum.

That's right there is a spectrum of things you can do in a situation and force that you can use, the use of your gun lies at the very end of that spectrum, not the begining, the fact that criminal and cival defense costs a bunch of money as well as the fact that every gun or knife fight has a winner and a loser, and no one is so good as to have their position win vs. lose a sure thing, ought to be enough to make you want to at liest try the things at the light side of the spectrum if at all possible.

Mikeyboy
March 2, 2006, 10:21 AM
I'll drop my .02 as a ex-city dweller. Muggers don't usually hide and just jump the first person that walks by (can't see if that gu. They basically hunting like a wild animal hunting a herd. They are looking around, looking at people, looking for an easy target. My theory is everyone has a purpose when they are out. They are moving to point A to point B or they are waiting around for some purpose (killing time waiting for a movie to start, or looking for and waiting for a friend, etc), it the ones that are just loitering, hanging around with no purpose. Sure teen boys can just hang around too, but they will be checking out girls, and laughing and talking among themselves. A lone mugger or gang of teens with possible intent on mugging will be checking out everyone (male and Female) that passes, sizing them up, and less likely to look like they are having "fun" and more looking like they want to fight. Look out for these so called hunters and avoid them. If they start moving in your direction avoid them and keep an eye on them, and be ready. They may run ahead and try to ambush you later. A mugging will go down one of three ways, an outright attack (hopefully you will see it coming), a weapons flash with a demand of money, or a probe and then either A or B. The probe is a mugger, or a group of mugger approaching you and asking something stupid (got a cigarette). If you get probed, get ready to draw (maybe palm your weapon but don't draw) look the guy straight in the eyes (it says I'm not afraid and I will make a good witness) and never let anyone get behind you. NEVER, Never offer change to anyone who ask. Just say I don't know and keep moving. If they try to stop you, something is up. A good thing that will throw them for a mental loop is to say "don't I know you from somewhere" or if your older "don't I know your mom?" It may cause them to back down if they believe your bluff. If anyone lays a hand on you...or threatens you...draw.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 10:32 AM
I would say that you should be a little less paranoid, are you the kind of person that people are after (if so and it is that big of a risk you should reconsider what you do for work or fun) It sounds like you are going to give your self a heartattack or an ulser and put yourself in the hospital. Looking inbetween cars in the parking lot of a movie theater is no way to live your life dude maybe move or something, try to enjoy life not by looking in every single shadow for a possible mugger.....just my opinion, dont mean to start fires.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 11:32 AM
Urbanassault, If you are going to carry, you had better look for danger in advance. That is not paranoia it is being prepared.

Doug, Just use your head. Scan for potential trouble and avoid it. Always keep space between you and anything suspicious. If a threat changes directions to intercept you turn around and go back, whatever. If you cannot retreat and you have made sure that the suspected badguy is intent on a confrontation, it is no longer brandishing a firearm. Several have said that trouble doesn't just jump out and that is correct. You can see it comming. Your job is to do whatever you can to avoid it, including retreat.

When to pull your gun? I pull my gun anytime my space is threatened by what I have determined is a potential threat. In 99.9 of these pulls the threat never sees my gun.

I often pondered the question "what do you do if someone suspicious walks up and asks for change or a stupid question"? The only answer (unless you are Ken Shamrock or Chuck Ladell) is to not allow your space to be breached. Use of evasive tactics or even a plain old get away from me or stop following me, whatever just keep them away. A friend of mine will tell you to stop. If you don't he will say very loud "stop don't rob me, I don't have any money". That has worked for him everytime. It also makes for very good witness interviews if you are forced to use your very last resort.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 11:41 AM
So I am the only one that thinks that this is a little overboard and not really a healthy way to go about your civilian life?

threegun
March 2, 2006, 12:14 PM
Urban, You might enjoy being competely helpless and at the mercy of another but most of us don't.

BTW How do you prevent the ruffian from preying on you?

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 12:19 PM
I would not consider myself completely helpless and at the mercy of others I also dont think ninja zombies are going to jump out from between cars at the movie theater. I also do not feel like pray, I however also do not carry, maybe you get the super hightened sence of paranoia with a permit to carry. At this point in my life I feel pretty safe in the position I am at, if everywhere you go you are LOOKING for somebody to shoot chances are you are going to find somebody to shoot, good luck in the hunt.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 12:36 PM
How do you prevent the ruffian from preying on you?
I would say them actually praying (or planning) on me is unavoidable, the weapon I use as a pre-emptive counterattack.....my brain. I do plan to carry, but where I am now I dont feel it necessary. The way it sounds you are more offensive than defensive.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 12:48 PM
posted by urbanassault I would not consider myself completely helpless and at the mercy of others I also dont think ninja zombies are going to jump out from between cars at the movie theater. I also do not feel like pray, I however also do not carry, maybe you get the super hightened sence of paranoia with a permit to carry. At this point in my life I feel pretty safe in the position I am at, if everywhere you go you are LOOKING for somebody to shoot chances are you are going to find somebody to shoot, good luck in the hunt.

So if you are not completely helpless and don't carry, then how do you prevent yourself and family from becomming prey. You avoided answering the question.

I don't look for somebody to shoot. I do look for potential threats to me and my family like a man should. In over 14 years of carrying I have not been forced to shoot anybody. The reason I look for potential threats is to avoid them as well as not be surprised by them. Perhaps your mindset is such that you see me being prepared to defend myself as looking to kill someone however mine isn't. Glenn Meyers has a thread on your kind and thankfully you have chosen not to carry.

invention_45
March 2, 2006, 12:50 PM
You're not paranoid if they're really out to get you.

And you can be sure they are. Anybody who says otherwise denies that muggers, robbers, rapists, stalkers, etc. exist.

Yes, running scenarios through your mind every time you see anyone on the street does seem paranoid. But if you live in a bad place or go to areas you don't know anything about, maybe it's better safe than sorry.

Your brain is set up to catch most dangerous situations automatically. You just get a bad feeling. If you aren't one to take, at all times, some of the overzealous precautions we see discussed here, you should do it when you get that feeling.

If you step out of the theater and face the dark parking lot and something is getting ready to go down, there will be signs. You might not be able to articulate them. But you will get an apprehensive feeling. That's the time to stop dead in your tracks and explicitly evaluate the situation.

You get this feeling because you in fact did see the signs. Something wasn't right. Somebody in the parking lot not doing a "going-to-or-from-the-movies" activity. A car with lights off not parked in a space. Somebody clearly pushing away from leaning against the wall and walking toward the same parking lot at the very moment you exit the theater.

I'm not saying stop and stand there every time you come out and go down a huge laundry list of things to look for, although the more things you get in the habit of looking for the safer you'll be. I'm just saying that when these things happen, there are signs and very often the victim knows it intuitively but ignores it, then walks into a trap.

Another good habit is to be alert whenever you change environments. I know it's hard to consciously walk around like that all the time. But when you leave a building, look around and don't look at the ground. If you ARE alert, you'll LOOK alert, and this is enough to make most would-be attackers wait for another victim.

Crossing the street is an example of this. Before you go from sidewalk to street, you check carefully (if you have any sense). Once the coast is clear, you cross. You don't have to be hyper-alert the whole time, but if you hear a strange sound, you don't want to ignore it. You stop and think. It could be a vehicle that came out of a parking lot, and you need to know it's there.

Get a copy of The Gift of Fear, by Gavin deBecker. It'll show you how to stay out of danger without driving yourself nuts over it.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 12:53 PM
Great answer your brain. I use mine FIRST as well. The difference is once you have been chosen as prey and your brain has come to the end of the list of possible remedies, you are helpless to stop an attack.

BTW How does your brain keep you safe?

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 12:57 PM
Glenn Meyers has a thread on your kind and thankfully you have chosen not to carry.
Please elaborate on this, Im not sure what "my kind" is. I would really like to hear how you view me and what kind of person you think I am, please enlighten me sir.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 12:58 PM
How does your brain keep you safe?
Search for "brain" and you might find a couple good posts. Or are you just trying to argue with me over everything? Your brain is your primary weapon a firearm is just a backup.

invention_45
March 2, 2006, 01:06 PM
urbanassault: "the kind of person people are after".

Hmm.

That almost sounds like an accusation.

What if you are an 80 year old grandma going to deposit a social security check? You're the kind person people are after.

What if you meet a friend at the corner bar and, in the process, happen to look at the wrong creep for a second too long? You're the kind of person people are after.

What if you are being stalked by a disgruntled and insane ex? You're the kind of person people are after.

What if you accidentally leave your wallet at a restaurant, somebody takes it, uses your identity, and you catch him and press charges? What if he's a career criminal and doesn't much like what you did? You're the kind of person people are after.

You don't have to live in the ghetto or deal with loan sharks or be a drug-using club-goer to be "the kind of person people are after".

You can sometimes acquire this distinction by just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sometimes, practicing being alert can ward off some of the more random of the would-be assailants. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to sniff around under all the cars before you go to a parking lot. But some people are more comfortable handling their personal security that way. I don't see them as looking for somebody to shoot. Other aspects of their personalities reflect that better. Sometimes they outright say it.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 01:08 PM
Well you see a person who is using his brain and looking for potential threats to avoid them and thus remain safe as
LOOKING for somebody to shoot or as potential quarrygood luck in the hunt

Glenn's post was about people who are looking for an excuse to shoot someone. Your train of thought seems to see someone being prepared the same as someone looking for a target. If my interpretation of your posts are as wrong as yours was of mine, I apologize. Again, despite what you seem to think, I have no desire to hurt anyone. My actions are all geared on preventing harm to myself and family, nothing more.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 01:13 PM
Search for "brain" and you might find a couple good posts. Or are you just trying to argue with me over everything? Your brain is your primary weapon a firearm is just a backup

We agree. My point is that when I use my brain to prevent an attack by looking for potential threats, you cry foul. Then you have the nerve to say that your sole method of self defense is your brain. Basically you use it to keep you away from danger........same thing you called me "paranoid" for doing. That is why I asked how your brain keeps you out of trouble. It is hypocritical to call someone paranoid while doing the same thing.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 01:16 PM
I do not mean to put you down for the way you go about personal protection it just seemed (to me) a little extreme. I am a 21 year old guy, I am 6'3" with a shaved head and 4guage earings and tattoos, I dont have any respect for people who look at me in a dark parking lot and think that I am going to hold them at knife point and kick their wife in the teath, so incorporating a firearm in that equation would make ME a target, for old fashioned, liberal, anti gunner's being targeted by society is a worse feeling than being targeted by a 17 year old kid with a knife who wants to get his arm broken.

invention_45
March 2, 2006, 01:40 PM
ROFLPIP !

I never thought I'd hear being liberal referred to as "old-fashioned" !

Um, urbanassault... First, it looks like 3guns is looking at you in the parking lot so he WONT go there and risk having to shoot you if he sees you and, from your appearance, concludes you are a threat. Not so that he WILL go there and shoot you. Sounds like a live/let live attitude to me.

But maybe 3guns doesn't look for appearance as you are assuming. Maybe he looks for behavior. Are you leaning against a car alone and not smoking or talking on a cell phone? That's what I'd look for, whether you are in a tux or naked.

Curious you should use the word "paranoia".

And thanks for the laugh.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 01:45 PM
Besides your looks (what many would consider strange) you would not draw anymore concern from me that any other strange (again not meant in a insulting manner) people out their. This country is loaded with different people. My job as a father and husband is to look for threats to my family. Not all criminals are tall,shaved head, pirates. The key here is suspicious activity not strange looking.

I asked you how your brain keeps you safe. I think I know your answer......avoiding trouble ect. What do you do when your brain detects trouble but avoiding it is not an option any longer? That is why I carry.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 02:01 PM
ROFLPIP=? never heard that. rolling on floor laughing pooped in pants?
....pirates. Im a pirate? Now im rolling on the floor pooping in my pants. I wish I was a pirate, have a cap and ball as my CCW! I think that you are wrong in ruling out looks as part of the suspicion, although you say it Im pretty sure its in the back of your head maybe subconcious. Your point has been made, I understand what you are getting at. I did not mean for the questions to be a direct threat. I can understand somebody who is standing in a dark parking lot by themselves as suspicious, but looking inbetween cars for something suspicious, is well suspicous. Also I do not think that I am strange looking but that is part of the "old fashioned" paranoid, generalizations I am talking about....
The key here is suspicious activity not strange looking.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 02:11 PM
I use an equal opportunity badguy radar. Black, white, weird, doesn't matter. Everybody gets radared.

By pirate I was refering to the earrings.

BTW, I am clean shaven myself. No tats or other body disfiguring thingamabobs though.

OK we are cool then. You understand that there is a difference between paranoia and prepared and I understand your not wanting to be judged or targeted by your "strange" looks lol.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 02:16 PM
I could see if I was sitting on your porch when you got home,
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17557&d=1139931684
then it would be okay to be allarmed, but it is unappreciated in public

invention_45
March 2, 2006, 02:17 PM
it's "rolling on floor, peeing in pants", but you were close.

I'm still curious to know what's old-fashioned about being liberal. I thought old-fashioned was being a virgin, or maybe wearing your hair in a bun, or building a TV set with tubes.

Far as your looks (as you describe them) I see waaay stranger than that every day.

Looks like we have 2 people here who both judge books by covers, and to the point that they let appearances scare them.

Both of you (3guns and urbanassault) would do well to take the advice described earlier (I forgot who). Take an advanced self defense course or two (they don't just teach how to hit a target) and if you can't afford it, read up on the matter.

Two texts I highly recommend:

www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

and

The Gift of Fear - Gavin deBecker (most likely available at Barnes & Noble).

Both are long reads. Neither is political. They're like textbooks. When you're done, you'll know what it's all about. Then, finally, take a long look at your state's statutes in two areas. Firearms/Weapons and Use of Force. In Florida they're different areas.

Put all that together, go to the range once in a while and you should be able to confidently protect yourself without being paranoid.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 03:30 PM
Looks like we have 2 people here who both judge books by covers, and to the point that they let appearances scare them.


Wow! I judge books by their covers? Really I don't. I assume all "books" are potential threats, even those which don't appear (looks) to be. My goal is to never be surprised. Like you said I45 your inner sense tells you when something isn't right. You said it in one word, behavior. If your behavior sets off warning bells in my head, I will avoid you at all costs. I don't judge books by their covers though. That innocent looking one might just get you.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 03:34 PM
yes that was not a very good assumption and you know what happens when you assume.....anyways, speaking of books, I like to shoot phone books, I tape two together and see how far my lead goes into them.....

threegun
March 2, 2006, 03:38 PM
Urban, Nice AR. Shooting off the back porch, must be nice.

then it would be okay to be alarmed, but it is unappreciated in public

How would you know I was armed ? How would you know that I offended you by thinking that you might be trouble? I don't wear a shirt saying I got a gun. Nobody would ever know.

urbanassault
March 2, 2006, 03:41 PM
Yeah shooting off the deck is pretty nice, the one thing that I enjoy about living at my parents again is being able to shoot whenever and right outside of our kitchen at that.
How would you know that I offended you by thinking that you might be trouble?I would know you offended me because you would be offending me, I would know you thought I was trouble by the look (yes there is a look)

rwking
March 2, 2006, 04:20 PM
this is something that cant be avoided, it can happen while backing out of your garage at home or in a well lit parking lot with lots of people around. what works for one incident will not work for another, the brain is the only smart weapon you have, the body will react to the brain.

threegun
March 3, 2006, 06:35 AM
Urban, If you don't want those types of looks then why do things to your body to draw attention to it? Some will look at it as cool and some will think weirdo. Me, I try to avoid giving anyone "that look" as it could lead to trouble. The easiest way to start a fight (at least back in the old days) was to give "that look" to someone you wanted trouble from.

In the real world you wouldn't even know I was carrying (as it should be) and you would never know that I even looked twice at you. In 14 years, I have never been caught staring or thinking bad thoughts.

How does that Olympic Arms shoot?

GUNSMOKE45441
March 3, 2006, 07:46 AM
Urban, I think your signature says all I need to know. We all were young and bulletproof once too.:rolleyes:
An old person is like a Slinky: Not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

urbanassault
March 3, 2006, 09:14 AM
gunsmoke::D (not bulletproof though:( )
3gun: I hear what you are saying, the people who give me the wierd looks are just old fashioned but.....the times are changing. The Oly shoots good, its an older one (has the stop sign thing on the lower) but it works good. I tore it down the other to find a piece of one of the gas rings missing:eek: so now I gotta fix that but otherwise it runs awesome, unless I run Wolf then it jams every 3 rounds.....just got a bayonet for it to and that really sets it off. Im trying to keep it original looking without all the doodads and gadgets, Ill build a carbine for that.

threegun
March 3, 2006, 11:25 AM
Gunsmoke, Are you saying that someday Urban will be fun to look at falling down the stairs LOL. At 6'3" he's gonna be really fun to watch.

urbanassault
March 3, 2006, 11:27 AM
'picturing an inked up old man laying at the bottom of the stares tangled up in a walker....'
that will be after my 30yr old wife pushes me, soon to find out I spent my millions on gold plated AK's and other miscelanious firearms....

threegun
March 3, 2006, 11:51 AM
Wasting money on gold plating an AK and you deserve to get pushed.

Big Calhoun
March 3, 2006, 12:04 PM
Generally I try to park in areas where there are less cars. It makes it easier to see around and under my vehicle. Never carry my keys in hand, I leave them in my pocket with the engine key just outside. If I feel I'm walking into a dangerous situation, I will have my hand ready to draw, but not directly on or near my firearm.

My biggest thing is look alert, not stupid. Muggers generally look for those not paying attention. The 'surprise' factor lends alot to a succesful robbery. The 'weak' looking aren't always targeted...you never know what's in that purse. Same logic applies to those that look 'strong'. In some instances, that can actually be an invitation to trouble as someone might feel they want to test you. Just best to look alert.

Hook686
March 3, 2006, 02:06 PM
02-27-2006, 10:22 PM #1
Doug.38PR
Senior Member


Okay:
You are walking through the parking lot one night to your car. It's after the movie is over. How do you spot and confront trouble when it is looking for you?


I try to watch in between cars, I watch what is in the cars around me if I can, I try to watch for suspicious cars going through the parkinglot or down the street (driving real slow as though spying me).


But what if I did spot something suspicious? It's too easy to say "Just pull your gun." But at what point? What exactly are you looking for? A subtle approach? A quick strike? What in detail qualifies as suspicious?


Doug.38PR


Doug the more I think about it, the more I think you just have to accept there will be times you are just going to have to accept you are going to be "Dead meat".

I drive slow through a parking lot ... looking for a closer parking spot, to avoid animals present ... a "Suspicious car" can be any other than belonging to someone I know ... anyone can appear to be "Spying you", especially another "You".

A well setup ambush will be successful every time ... you gonna have to relax and enjoy the movie I'm thinking. :rolleyes:

urbanassault
March 3, 2006, 02:09 PM
finally!!!!!!!!!

threegun
March 3, 2006, 02:56 PM
Hook, You are right. I just prefer to try to see the ambush before it is sprung and avoid it. Doug is asking for help that is very difficult to give, given the multitude of probabilities. Despite the difficulty, we should do our best to help, if we are able to.

Trip20
March 3, 2006, 03:10 PM
I don't feel it's advice that is difficult to give. I think common sense and a little situational awareness will handle 99% of the potential dangers.

Can't it be that simple?

I refuse to do barrel rolls on my way to the armor plated mini van after taking the kids to see a movie.

mete
March 3, 2006, 03:50 PM
Trip, yes it's simple - Alert, Aware, Avoid, takes care of most problems....... There is a violent murder in NY in the news . A college student . But in all the discussion I hear no comments about the fact that she was bar hopping . Out to the odd hours of the morning, mostly alone ,hardly the way to insure safety !!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

threegun
March 3, 2006, 03:59 PM
Trip, Some people get the impression that we live paranoid. I don't go crazy looking in "grassy knolls" ect. I do scan for danger as I walk to my vehicle. I sit facing the door in restaurants, preferrably close to an escape route (exit). It is not living worried just being careful.

I don't feel it's advice that is difficult to give. I think common sense and a little situational awareness will handle 99% of the potential dangers.

Can't it be that simple?


For me it is. For Doug it isn't. He seems unsure what to do and when to do it. We can say use common sense but I'm sure he already does. He claims to scan for danger but here

But what if I did spot something suspicious? It's too easy to say "Just pull your gun." But at what point? What exactly are you looking for?

He doesn't know what to do. He sound worried about doing the wrong thing. Different scenarios call for different resolutions. They say to never pull your gun unless you are going to use it yet many have pulled it to defuse a situation before it came to deadly force levels. What is correct? I think that is what he wants an answer to. The answer is, it cannot be answered. You have to make the call, live. This is probably why Doug makes all these scenario posts. I tell you that I enjoy hereing how others have handled situations.

rha600
March 3, 2006, 04:07 PM
you guys might want to think about some sort of self defense/martial arts class. obviously nothing will help you 100% but what if someone gets the drop on you and you can't pull your weapon? or you do pull it and it drops, gets knocked out of your hand... even if the guy had a knife, or if there were more then one.

threegun
March 3, 2006, 04:29 PM
I can box, wrestle, karate, ect. I can also use a knife, tonfa (pr24), bow, chucks, sia, ect. I have knockout power in both hands despite only being 5'8" and 185. The problem is, there is always someone better trained or more willing to use violence. Plus I don't want to touch another person much less fight with them. In an emergency I can and will get nasty with the best of um. I'm also getting older, my muscles don't last as long, my joints crack and pop when I lift my leg to tie my shoe much less throw a roundhouse or sidekick. BTW hitting the head with those kicks is now only possible if the guy is the size of tattoo from fantasy island.

My best bet is to spot and avoid trouble.

rha600
March 3, 2006, 05:35 PM
I agree 1000% with that last statment but there's always that one time and it just seems that a lot of people rely too much on whatever they are carrying.

GSD
March 3, 2006, 10:01 PM
It all comes down to looks and attitude.

If you look and act like a victim, you will be a victim.

If you have them thinking, they will leave you alone. Theres alot of fish in the sea, they don't need the hassles, just like you don't.

threegun
March 4, 2006, 03:09 AM
GSD, I believe you are correct. I have often wondered why the things that happen to friends and family never seem to happen to me. I mean I'm not complaining about the good fortune, its just that so many stories of how this guy tried this or did that, from good people who go to similar places that I go, had me thinking. Maybe I give off some vibes or something. I'm not a big guy so it can't be size intimidation. I think you are right. The badguy, like a dog, can sense my lack of fear or something. Anyway, thank goodness for that special sense as I don't need the tension.

GSD
March 4, 2006, 09:06 AM
threegun, I call that "the art of fighting without fighting" even the biggest guys won't mess with you if you get them to thinking or wondering.

I think alot of it is from how and where you were brought up. I think its an attitude that you learned to get you through some hard times. I needed the tough guy attitude from the time I was a little kid. We moved around from place to place as I was growing up. I needed to be the little tough guy, I was the new kid 6 times and ended up at an inner city dominantly black school. You needed to be a tough guy to make it out of there. Plus the fact that I was a little guy too, that made it that much harder. Well, I did it, I made it out OK and now I'm 5'10" 225lbs.......as of today:) I'm on a diet to get down to 210lbs. I started out at 245lbs Jan.1 2006.


"The art of fighting without fighting."