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shield20
February 26, 2006, 01:26 PM
Just saw on FOX about a man in Detroit who opened fire with a rifle or shotgun in a church. Supposedly he shot 3 people. He was still at large.

As this "carrying in church" question comes up from time to time - is there anyone that really thinks church is safe(r) & so carrying there doesn't matter, or is sacreligous or whatever?

Pointer
February 26, 2006, 01:42 PM
If you kill a man UNECESSARILY... It doesn't matter what edifice you kill him in... :rolleyes:

If you kill a man out of NECESSITY... It doesn't matter what edifice you kill him in... :cool:

If you decide that it is sinful, in the eyes of your God, to kill out of the NECESSITY to defend innocent human life... you're either a fanatic, or you worship the the wrong God... :eek:

IMNSHO... :p

mete
February 26, 2006, 02:48 PM
Yes the sheeple think church is a sacred place therefore is safe and you don't need a gun there...And it doesn't matter how many examples to the contrary you show them ,they are still sheeple !!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OneInTheChamber
February 26, 2006, 04:47 PM
I remember a verse that stated if you didn't have a sword to sell your cloak and buy one.

Especially with religiously driven terrorism, if I could carry in church, I would.

Rimrock
February 26, 2006, 05:52 PM
Especially with religiously driven terrorism, if I could carry in church, I would.
Maybe more accurately, ESPECIALLY IN CHURCH!
We only need to read a paper or briefly look at history to know that religious zealots know no country, race or brand of belief system. They're everywhere to ensure we live their way or ultimately cease to live at all.
Mix these sick zealots with a little church and state issues right here in "River City" and you have instant ignition!
God must be so proud of the work they do in his name!:eek: :eek: :eek: :mad:

Rimrock

Pointer
February 26, 2006, 06:19 PM
Please close this thread...

For obvious reasons...

tegemu
February 26, 2006, 06:55 PM
Why close it? It's a valid situation and since it does not point any fingers at the Spiritual side of the churches but rather addresses a very real threat, it is something worthy of reasoned discussion.

BamaXD
February 26, 2006, 07:52 PM
I believe it was said best in the movie End of Days by Arnold Schwarzenegger : "Between your faith and my Glock nine millimeter, I'll take the Glock." Basically saying that while god does watch over us, bullets are more persuading to a gunman than the bible.

mete
February 26, 2006, 08:53 PM
The alleged shooter apparently later committed suicide. After he left the church members hugged and prayed !!

stevelyn
February 27, 2006, 07:31 AM
Another church shooting.

No divine intervention.

No legions of angels preventing same.

In Glock We Trust.

HangFire83
February 27, 2006, 08:17 AM
Another church shooting.

No divine intervention.

No legions of angels preventing same.

In Glock We Trust.

Amen Reverend.

MicroBalrog
February 27, 2006, 09:31 AM
remember a verse that stated if you didn't have a sword to sell your cloak and buy one.

Especially with religiously driven terrorism, if I could carry in church, I would.

Rabbis here have issued rulings that call upon the faithful to carry in the synagogues.

Mannlicher
February 27, 2006, 03:24 PM
Pointer requests: Please close this thread...

For obvious reasons...
__________________

Note, that his request comes after he has had the opportunity to make his reply.

I still don't see the obvious reason though........

isa268
February 27, 2006, 04:09 PM
why close this thread how is talking about carrying in Church any different then talking about carrying in the Mall? history shows us bad things can happen at either place.

jcoiii
February 27, 2006, 04:39 PM
Given the locations in any number of news reports posted here where people are shot, I carry anywhere and everywhere I can.

Pointer
February 27, 2006, 08:14 PM
Note, that his (Pointer's) request comes after he has had the opportunity to make his reply.
:p :p

why close this thread
Thank you for keeping it respectable...

I wanted it closed because it was beginning to look like it was deteriorating into a "let's rail on God believers and infidel haters..."

I support carrying whenever and wherever the need might arise... :cool:

Example
Yes the sheeple think church is a sacred place

Perhaps I was too hasty... :o

mete
February 27, 2006, 09:49 PM
Pointer , there was, on this or another forum, recently a list of attacks in churches .While I do not attend church my comment was not anti religion.The point was that there are those who can not and will not face reality. It is perhaps more so for church goers since the church has always been seen as a sanctuary. I'm sure that the list of church attacks would not open the eyes of the "faithful" sheeple, or any other sheeple. You should study the church pedophile history to see how much evil can be in church !!

Pointer
February 28, 2006, 02:22 AM
Derision is derision...

I could say everything that has been said quite effectively...

without derision. :cool:

J.D.B.
February 28, 2006, 07:32 PM
According to the paper today, the shooting had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with(as usual it seems) a girl. The moron came into the church with a sawed-off 12 gauge to find out where his ex-girlfriend(whom he had assaulted a month before) was located. When her mother wouldn't tell him, he shot and killed her, and also took a couple fingers off the hand of a young girl seated next to her. Then this piece 'o work shoots a man who he was trying to pull a carjack on. That man died today. The 22 year-old shooter killed himself later on Sunday. Apparently the girl he sought had asked to press assault charges the month before, but no warrant was issued, no arrest made, and now it doesn't matter. This kind of crap has become regular news around here. All disputes are settled with shots fired no matter the pettiness or legality. Every day, no exaggeration on my part. Just about ALL shots come from illegally held guns. Stay away from Detoilet, it's not a nice place to live.
Josh

FLA2760
March 1, 2006, 03:23 PM
Hi
I carry everywhere I can legally. I was quite active several years ago in a big church. I was acting as an usher that month and their had been a rash of car break inns. I was ushering with an off duty deputy sherrif also a church member who had his Glock in an ankle rig. He is very pro gun. I told him I had my Glock in an ankle rig too and he said "great brother if it goes down I have backup". The scum that were hitting the chuch members cars were caught that same week hitting cars in a mall parking lot. :cool:

smince
March 2, 2006, 05:54 PM
I made a thread here a few weeks ago (Church Security). Even before the rash of church arsons in Alabama, the State Board of Missions has been teaching seminars on the topic of church security. There must be a need if there is a course about it. I attended one conference and found a book on Amazon entitled "Crime Prevention in Houses of Worship". You would be surprised (or maybe not) what crimes go on in churches, synagogues, etc. They are difficult to find because FBI lists church crime under "business" instead of separately.

I have been preaching security at my church for 11 years, but it took 9 cars being broken into a few weeks before CHRISTmas to open the eyes of the rest of the leadership. As a result, we have patrols during services, and we are adding CCTV to our facility as soon as we get our newest building completed. Our church didn't even have a plan for evacuation in event of fire or severe weather, never mind bomb threats, or a plan for missing children, armed intruder, suspicious packages, medical emergencies, etc. I'm currently writing a safety manual for the congregation. We are fairly large for the area, but are rural and fire/sheriff/ambulance response is not quick most times. There is a monitored alarm for times when we are absent, but I am working on response during services.

Good stewardship means protecting all God's resources.

Texas Gun Runner
March 6, 2006, 11:44 AM
I am a regular church attender with a CCW, and while I trust God with my protection, I also know that I live in a dangerous world where irrational people do crazy and dangerous things anywhere and everywhere. Everywhere would include in a church, school, mall, or any other public place. I'm smart enough to know that I'm not truly "safe" anywhere, and I even carry on my person in my own home. I feel that it is my responsibility to myself, my family, and those I love to remain vigilant, prepared, and aware at all times. I don't worry about what may happen, but I am prepared in the event that something does happen. I have decided(like many, many others on this forum) to take personal responsibility for my own safety, and I don't delegate that responsibility to anyone else. Besides, who else would I trust my life to? Besides my wife, of course, who also carries everywhere it is legal to do so, including church. Just my thoughts. You can agree or disagree, but you won't convince me to change my mind.

xrageofangelsx
March 6, 2006, 11:54 AM
Anyone who does a study of the major world religions can tell you that the building has little to do with being seen as a sacred place. Whether Islamic, Christian, or Jewish, the building does not protect anyone from anything. It is the assembly of like-minded people that make the location special (to the person), but not holy. Those of you who are comparing the lack of protection from a Divine Force as equating preference of a firearm are missing the entire point.

Rather than ridicule, why don't you at least think a few positive thoughts about the situation, maybe even pray for those people who experienced such a tragedy, and like my ole’ momma used to say… if you can’t say anything nice then shut your damn month.

Trust me, quoting a terrible movie like End Of Days is neither clever nor appropriate in a situation where people were shot in a church.

I miss the days of Classical Education being taught in Public Schools. All insults can be taken to me privately, if you feel the need.

threegun
March 6, 2006, 01:57 PM
Mete, I had a coworker who saw my beretta 92 on my hip and said to me "son, you don't need that gun, I have dispatched gods angels to protect this printing shop". I said thanks and went back to work. I didn't get sarcartic or anything. She was definitely blinded like you say. She was a terribly nice woman and a fine believer. I go by the paper and nightly news which shows that God has his hands full and expects us to take care of ourselves.

LoadIt
March 6, 2006, 02:20 PM
Here in Kansas our legislature is attempting to pass a concealed carry law (SB 418) again. We had one passed two years ago but it was vetod by our democrat governor. It looks like there may be enough votes to override any veto attempt this time.

Anyway, there was a proposed amendment that would have made it illegal to carry in church. That amendment was rejected. I guess the legislature knows that even if God is with you wherever you go, criminals can follow you there.

DBOUNCE1
March 6, 2006, 03:18 PM
It's pretty sick when people have to take lives inside gods house

smince
March 6, 2006, 06:35 PM
A good friend in LE told me DHS taught a course he attended entitled "Soft Targets: Malls, Schools, and Houses of Worship".

With Homeland Security and my own state Board of Missions having seminars/conferences on the subject, I'd say we definitely have a reason for concern.

Sure, God can (and does) protect us. But read Job. He took the hedge away from him and allowed Satan to attack him. And not because Job had sinned, either(well, no more than the rest of us, anyway). Why does God allow these things? I don't know, but he gets the Glory in the end. As bad as the world is today, if He completely stayed his hand, it would be infinitely worse.