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View Full Version : Anyone worry about what cops might think....


Doug.38PR
February 22, 2006, 08:15 PM
Does anyone worry about what cops might think of those who have more than one gun on or about their person?

I frequently travel in my car with a mid sized revolver on my person, a 6 inch N-frame .357 in between my seat (a horsepistol of a sort ;) ) and a little snub nose in my glove compartment for backup. All of them are loaded and I would be required to tell a policeman about them. What would he think about a guy with more than one gun on him?

garand_shooter
February 22, 2006, 08:24 PM
No, I don't worry about it, but in PA automatic disclosure is not required.

As long as you are legal, what he thinks is irrelevant. The only problem I see is that a matter that may be resolved in minutes, may take quite a bit longer once he finds out about your multiple weapons. Other than the inconvenience, if you're legal, you're legal.

Blackwater OPS
February 22, 2006, 08:44 PM
I don't think most cops would see a bug as anything other than good planning. I would'nt.

KC135
February 22, 2006, 09:04 PM
Nope do not worry--carry three.

I also go to great lengths to avoid giving reason to be stopped.

#18indycolts
February 23, 2006, 02:59 AM
don't worry, don't care...it's MY right as an AMERICAN!

Ghost Rider
February 23, 2006, 07:47 AM
People carry car insurance, you carry defence insurance. That is what having multiple handguns on your person or within reach is.... I would think.

Dwight55
February 23, 2006, 07:16 PM
For now, . . . the Ohio CHL specifically uses the term "a concealed handgun" both on the front and the back. In proper English, . . . that means only one handgun.

Until that fight is fought in the courts by someone else besides myself, . . . I will carry one handgun, . . . small knife, . . . maybe a flashlight.

May God bless,
Dwight

Glockamolie
February 23, 2006, 08:54 PM
I have 3 guns in my car most of the time. My .32 Kel-Tec is hidden in the car, which I just slip into my pocket if I go into a store, or otherwise am not packing my bigger pistol. I have a full-size pistol handy, which is usually a Glock 19. I always have my Maverick 18" 12 gauge in the trunk loaded with 00 Buck. These all serve the purpose, but I wouldn't die of a heart attack if my car was stolen, and all of 'em went with it.

NarcSgt
February 24, 2006, 12:07 AM
I always have my Maverick 18" 12 gauge in the trunk loaded with 00 Buck.

Is your Maverick at least 26 inches overall length?

Doug as long as you are following the law in your state and the states you travel in you should not have a problem. Make sure that if your state requires you to disclose the fact you are armed that you do so. Honesty goes a long way with patrol officers.

LICCW
February 26, 2006, 09:56 PM
My permit does not limit the number of firearms I may own or carry, so an LEO would not be bothered by it if I had 12 pistols on me. If the same rules apply to your permit, then you have no problem and the officer who pulls you over won't have one either.

Mannlicher
February 27, 2006, 03:26 PM
why should anyone care what cops think about this or any other matter?

Edward429451
February 27, 2006, 04:09 PM
Ultimately, they shouldn't. But what a cop thinks can make the difference in whether or not they retain their liberty that day. A little forthought never hurts.

SrtDog
February 28, 2006, 02:21 PM
Mannlicher, you dont honestly think that, do you?

Remeber this: 9 times out of 10, the people who cops meet who have weapons on their person have either just committed a crime, or are about to commit a crime. So cops will always treat someone who is carrying concealed a little differently. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

Will your freedom to move freely be interrupeted mometarily? Yes, without question.

Would you like cops to patrol your neighborhood who didnt act in such a manner?

Mannlicher
February 28, 2006, 07:26 PM
I expect cops to act like cops. That they will be suspicious and mindful of their safety is to be expected. No one said anything about antagonizing them. I just dont care much what they think though, its not important.
Further more, your opinion about what I feel means even less.

yorec
February 28, 2006, 09:40 PM
I don't worry about it - disclosure no required here either...

And speaking of which - 9 times out of 10, the people who cops meet who have weapons on their person have either just committed a crime, or are about to commit a crime. Where do you get such statistics? Around here I suspect it to be far from accuaret - simply because so many people carry. Maybe in the inner city somewhere that CCW is illegal, but that's the nature of such places. Out here in the "real world" normalcy is a lot less worrisome.

RsqVet
March 1, 2006, 06:29 AM
Seriously folks while legal is legal and will win out in the end(hopefully) , some of the things I see discussed here among the many threads could result in the field interview vershion of a colonoscopy and frankly with good reason.

Now I am not talking about Doug with his 3 revolvers, No, definatly not, It would be my guess that that is the outer limit of resonable for most officers in CCW states, something that might raise an eyebrow but if all else is in order life would move on a a rapid pace.

Now for folks who are carrying more than 3 guns on their person as has been discussed here from time to time, or carrying a shoulder slung AR 15 pistol as I saw mentioned once, hell yes I would expect that to cause some suspition of the part of a law officer and while it may be your right, and you may not have done anything wrong I also would expect a closer look from an officer, I'd frankly be disapointed in anyone who did not give such an individal a closer look, It's outside the norm of CCW, pushing the limits of what is reasonable and prudent and thus it's not unreasonable to have an expectation of a closer look --- yeah and this migth inadertantly take a 1/2 hour out of your day while they double check things --- this is there job.

As an alternative imagine this --- In most places it's legal for me to buy 100 boxes of Sudafed (a major ingrediant for one method of making crystal meth) if I want, say I'm taking it on a trip to the 3rd world to do some medical relief work, and it's legal to drive around with it in plain view on back seat. However if I'm stoped is it reasonable for me to have an expectation for this to NOT be looked into or to get an attitude about it when it is? No it's not a reasonable expectation, my actions are considerably out of the norm and somewhat compatable with criminal activity, whild I'd expect an explantion and looking into my backround, and the orginization I work with would put this to rest in short order the arousing of suspicion is understandable and is what an Officer shold be expected to do.

#18indycolts
March 1, 2006, 08:24 AM
Indiana law states that I DO NOT have to inform a cop if I'm carrying, I just have to give him my CCL on demand. Sounds good, I just don't understand it. I'll carry 10 if I have to, I'd be more worried what my mom thinks than what a cop thinks.:D

Rightwinger
March 1, 2006, 08:43 AM
I've had to hand out the card ONCE... (Failed to signal a turn, it was late, he probably was just checking to see if I was drunk, and WA is a MUST notify state.)

He asked where it was, I told him what and where (SA Loaded 1911 on my right hip sir...), and he proceeded to chat with me about his own SA 1911. Got a warning about the signal, and I'm more carefull now.

Mikeyboy
March 1, 2006, 02:20 PM
Doug do you really need 3 guns??? Again if everything is legal that is fine but the cop may get annoyed by the fact that your leaving two loaded handguns in your vehicle when your not in it. Somebody breaking into your car will find those guns.

Again I just want to remind people that stolen guns are used in crimes. Your gun can be used to rob, rape, and kill if someone steals it. Leaving a gun in your home unlocked or in your car makes it more likely to get stolen if a thief breaks in. Doug I don't care how many guns you need, just keep them on your person when you exit the car. Your guns, your responsibility.

gdeal
March 1, 2006, 02:50 PM
Cops don't think too much of that. I rode with a cop once. They look at how well the exterior of the car is maintained. Is it smashed up? Dented? Dirty? If so, the person might have an expired license or registration. Then is there more than one person in the car? Inside - is the car filthy? Cigarette butts on the floor? Empty beer cans. Next what does the driver look like? Anti-Establishment type? Like it or not, people judge you on your appearance. I don't always agree with this either But that is just they way it is. Clean cut multiple guns all the proper paper work - No problem. Going back to square one, why were U pulled over in the first place? Speeding, u might get off. Driving like a jerk - U R getting a ticket.

FLA2760
March 1, 2006, 03:09 PM
Hi
As long as you are legal don't sweat it. Just tell the cop that Mr. Murphy tends to show up in your life at the darndest times! Most LEOs especially those with any military backround will know EXACTLY what you mean! :D

Optical Serenity
March 1, 2006, 03:16 PM
I don't know any cops who care about something so trivial. As has been said before, most of us are very pro-2nd amendment, and we'll chat about our guns.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 1, 2006, 03:48 PM
I know that of an informal study done by a well known tactical trainer dealing with police stops.

Basically, an officer stops a car, in the car they find a shotgun or an AR stored in a manner which is a minor violation of the law. Dealing with it is discretionary. About 4 % arrested the guy with the shotgun while 75% chose to arrest the guy with the AR.

These were gun knowledgeable officers and basically gun friendly, according the training officer who did the study.

So in an ambiguous situation, looking a little extreme may not serve you well.

Gunfighter45cal
March 1, 2006, 04:02 PM
Since I routinely carried at least three guns on on patrol, I wouldn't have thought it too odd. Also, I never arrested a person who was carrying a weapon(on their person or in the vehicle) that wasn't either a convicted felon or committing another crime. My career spanned from '84-'03.

threegun
March 1, 2006, 04:07 PM
looking a little extreme may not serve you well.

A+ Glenn

Ben Swenson
March 1, 2006, 04:17 PM
I've been pulled over while carrying two guns.

The officers in question were more upset about the hammer being back on my 1911 than the fact that I had a Kel-tec too.

riverrat66
March 2, 2006, 12:04 AM
In New York "concealed carry" means just that, concealed on your person not in your glove compartment or between your seats. If you have a "possession only" permit the handgun must be locked in a box or container separate from the ammo while traveling to and from the range.

It is illegal to carry a loaded shotgun in your trunk for any reason.

Automatic disclosure is not required in New York. I've been pulled over for speeding while carrying two firearms and the officer never knew I was carrying.

TexiCali Slim
March 2, 2006, 12:16 AM
Im sure if you disclosed the information to the cop he wouldn't mind, it's been my experince that as long as you don't try to "pull one over on cops" about anything they're usually pretty cool from then on. Plus if your gonna tell him you have 3 guns in the car why would he suspect you weren't going to tell him about any others. Ya know?;)
-Thanx

newerguy
March 3, 2006, 10:05 AM
I'm not a cop, nor a lawyer. But I'm currious why you think you need so many guns on you. Honestly, I support people's right to carry a gun, and if I was on a jury, and a guy claiming self-defense was carrying three guns, I'd expect to hear why he had so many. If there wasn't a good reason, I'd have to wonder whether he was reacting reasonably to threats in general, and then I give a second thought to whether his reaction to shoot a specific threat was reasonable.

Three guns (civilian with three hand guns, not hunter with a .22 plinking pistol, bigger hunting revolver and rifle; and not cop with his sidearm, backup and long gun) makes me wonder whether you are 1) itching for a fight, or 2) overreacting to precieved threats.

Therefore, considering I'd expect cops to be more suspicious than me, I would worry about them giving you a second look. It's just too different from what everyone else does.

From a tactical standpoint, if you are in a situation where you need three revolvers and more than 12 shots, you not going to shoot your way out of it. Think about focus on getting better at talking your way out of trouble or driving/running your way out of trouble.

Edward429451
March 3, 2006, 11:34 AM
Once I was dropping a couple buddies off on the way back from the range and went in to show him (his wife) a little .25 that I had that he thought she might like (to buy). Well the first thing she did with it was to point it at my buddy who immediately (verbally) jumped down her throat for doing so. and the (shouting match) battle was on. The neighbors called the Law and they showed up. Eventually they got around to asking if anyone had weapons on them. I stood up and said yeah, I'm wearing 2 45's under my vest and a 25 in my back pocket. (I took the 25 back as soon as the shouting started). He unholstered my full size GVMT mdl and PO hi cap conversion and just clacks them together in one of his hands as he starts walking towards the door...I reactivly yelled at the cop and said "HEY!" and he turned to look at me and I said "Take it easy on those, I've got quite a bit of money tied up in them" He rolled his eyes and transferred one to each hand. After he ran the numbers he came back in and said so why do you have so many guns on you? Eh, just coming home from the range...
Luckily I was on private property and not standing out on the sidewalk.:eek:

Weird situation. I would've yelled at her too and would've also yelled at him (if it were my wife). Nobody yells at my wife, that my job, and while I generally don't worry about minor scratches on my guns I still don't let people abuse them. Even cops.

(Keep a box or two of ammo in the vehicle...I'm on my way to/from the range, I forgot to take my ammo out of the car from the trip to the range, etc.. That's believable to any cop I think.)

rwking
March 3, 2006, 05:21 PM
if the cops dont like it tough, their opinion doesnt matter to me, its the written law that matters to me. i have a right to carry however many the law allows.

riverrat66
March 4, 2006, 10:10 PM
From a tactical standpoint, Think about focus on getting better at talking your way out of trouble or driving/running your way out of trouble.
Not to get off topic but are you joking? I suggested that on another thread and was almost "mugged", if you will and was told "I don't run from anybody" and that I must be a real "chickensh*t! I wonder how many guns he carried? :eek:

erh
March 5, 2006, 10:46 AM
I got "Really" lucky in Reno, NV. once back in 1989..! Litterally had just arrived in town after having driven cross country from N.E. Tenn. w/ 21 assorted firearms (A few Long - AR 15, AR 180, M1A, & a Riot Gun, but mostly handguns - my collection @ the time..) all this simply covered with lots of personal belongings and sort of scattered throughout the car; most were in cases, & non were able to be seen w/ out shifting other stuff around! (Yes, I know what you're thinking... I broke the law in a State or 2 along the way just by driving through.. Sometimes you just gotta do what'cha gotta do & all that..!)
Non were loaded & I was carrying NO ammo for any - Except for 1, always loaded Colt Commander that was set in condition 1. All this stuff was packed into my '79 Celica Liftback...

Anyway, just as the sun was setting, I stopped and grabbed a Soda at a local corner store. When I departed the store, an actually quite similar to mine, (beat up, rusty, etc..) late '70's Toyota pulled in "Very" close behind me (it had in it what looked like 2 teenage occupants..). Shortly after pulling in behind me, they each folded down a sun-visor & to my intense instant Pucker & Chagrin, the "Red & Blues" started flashing.
I was pulled over because "I didn't immediately turn on my headlights despite the fact it was nearly dark, & they thought perhaps I had been drinking". (I say it was actually because I had Tenn. Tags... whatever..)
I was asked to step out of the vehicle by 2 absurdly young "grungie" looking (quite a cover I assure you..), pistol & badge carrying plain clothes cops. After I passed a basic sobriety test, attention turned to my car...! They looked through the windows and could see nothing except an absolutely "Jam-packed" bunch of stuff. I think just the amount of stuff in there alone, made them really not want to start digging through there..
Finally, the moment arrived that they asked if there where any "Drugs or firearms" in the vehicle...
I responded to the question in a manner something like - Well, No Drugs Ever, & 21 non Fully Automatic weapons; it's just what popped out of my mouth because I didn't know how else to respond to them without them completely Freaking out and didn't want to get caught in a lie just in case..!! They apparently just really got a kick out of my answer, and said something like - Well Sir (While Chuckling..), we do happen to specialize in Drug Busts & are glad you don't have any or approve of Drugs, and as long as there's no Machine Guns or Bazooka's in there to just "Have a nice night and welcome to Reno, Nevada! Then they just hopped in their Lil' Toyota & drove away...
I waited a few minutes to get my heart back where it belonged (and probably should have checked my drawers too..!) Once I had re-gathered my wits, I drove the last couple of miles to my final destination & immediately unpacked the car..!

Anyway, via this extra long answer to the initial question; sometimes LEO's just plain don't think too much; most times thats bad, but this particular time it was great.. "Thank goodness for me on that day..!"

(erh)

2400
March 5, 2006, 12:04 PM
Anyone worry about what cops might think....

No.

SrtDog
March 5, 2006, 08:13 PM
Re: Page 1.

Mannlicker, I dont care if my opinion matters to you. I've read some of your posts, and it dosent seem like anyones opinion but your own matters. :barf:

On another note.
Its probably not a smart idea to not care whats in the mind of someone who has the authority to detain you. :rolleyes:

Capt Charlie
March 5, 2006, 10:15 PM
I foresee yet another thread gone up in flames due to a lack of civility. Let's try to keep that from happening, OK folks?

shooter429
March 5, 2006, 11:34 PM
First and foremost, if you are a good guy, don't sweat it. Be calm, collected and honest, but don't start boot-licking. In this state, the loaded handgun should be concealed on the person who holds the permit (the driver). If you have long guns, for goodness sake, keep them in an opaque container in the trunk or behind the seat and actions open, with NO mags/ammo inserted!! This is very important! I suggest you keep your DL, INS, Reg. and permit in one pocket in a visor above and in front of you so that the officer sees your hands as he approaches the vehicle at all times and knows what you are reaching for. Avoid furtive movements that might make the officer suspicous-like reaching under the seat or grabbing for the glove-box etc. For God's sake, do not pull the gun out and set it on the seat to show the officer while saying, "I gotta permit for this." Unless there is a reason to remove the gun from it's hiding spot, IMHO, it is better not to break it out or tell him about it. If you are a good guy with propper paper, I would not care.

Now, if you need to get out of the car (as requested by the LEO) for example, to look at your plate and have your gun on a hip holster, present both licences to the officer and keep your hands on the wheel until you are told to do otherwise. The keys to dealing with cops or john q citizen for that matter, in my experience, are stay calm, be courteous, listen, and do what you are asked to do/not do.

Just my 02

If you are a bad guy, take a long time to stop and then leave the car running while pretending not to hear the LEO and ignore anything the cop says, and immediatly start reaching under you seat and squirming around to hide the pipe then reach for the glove box, whip the gun out, and lay it on the seat next to you. Then when the cops buddies have arrived to back em up, you wave the gun aimlessly in the air and yell "this will go through your Second Chance like a hot knife through butter! It is usually good if you have some tools like screwdrivers and duct tape on the dash and a broken window always helps the situation. Oh and a few more little nuggets, Cops never got suspicious of anyone using profanity, refusing to respond to verbal commands etc.

I hope this helps

Shooter429

Flavio
March 5, 2006, 11:53 PM
When I go to the range I have my rifle unloaded in its case in the trunk. To their dislike, unfortunately we have the right to have them. :D

Glenn E. Meyer
March 6, 2006, 12:10 PM
There is an interesting trend is such debates.

There is the theoretical or absolutist view vs. the pragmatic.

The former is usually wrapped in some layperson's view of a Constitutional principle or view of a state law. If their reading is such that the behavior is permittable under those, then they will engage in that behavior. The principle is inviolate and some seem to relish the chance to challenge an officer. Perhaps they see themselves as the Rosa Parks of the gun rights world or at least claim to be such on the Internet. It might be fun to carry guns (or claim to carry guns) in a way that might spark a confrontation. It adds a frisson of excitement to carry - maybe the cop will think you are tough and you can put him or her down with your well planned RKBA speech.

Another view is pragmatic. There may well be such principles, but police and courts are made of people, and they don't always act in absolute principles in the way you think they should.

The officer may perceive you as extreme and that can color his or her use of discretion in the manner at hand. You might get the ticket, you might have avoided. You might get put on the concrete in cuffs. You might get a gun in your ear. If you decide to keep arguing as a matter of principle, you may be seen as resisting and no logical chatter will mean crap - you could get shot.

I know from the literature and talking to officers that while some folks may not take extreme firearms carry as anything but a 2nd Amendment celebration, other might not.

Thus, I care not to present myself as extreme. My firearms choices are clearly pragmatic. A main gun and a bug are fine. A polite attitude and informing the officer of the guns (as TX requires) is fine and dandy. While I might carry my shotgun and AR in the car for terrorists and zombies, I usually don't. If I do, they are safely stowed.

I've been stopped in cars with the full range ninja gear. Since I am so respectful looking I gave the officer my CHL. He said - going to the range? Yep!

If I started pulling guns out the seats of the car, that's getting a touch freaky. Why carry in such a manner?

DBOUNCE1
March 6, 2006, 03:20 PM
as long as it's legit who cares

Glenn E. Meyer
March 6, 2006, 03:22 PM
Because there is something to impression management. That's the point, folks don't get. Life and decision making is complex.

It's legit to walk down a TX street with an AR-15 slung, dressed like a mall ninja. Start doing that in front of the Federal building and/or courthouse.

threegun
March 6, 2006, 04:30 PM
Glenn sad to say is right here. I just helped a customer this morning. He was pawning his bond arms 45lc/.410 derringer. As we talked I noticed other large buldges on his person (don't get funny on me guys). Turns out that he was carrying 2 astra terminators (44mag snubbys) and an AMT backup 45 acp LOL. That makes 4 guns and get this on a bicycle. As we talked he told a story of nearly getting arrested. One officer was convinced that he was a trouble maker simply because of the multiple guns. After a supervisor was called and witnesses talked to he was found to have done nothing wrong. I also found myself judging this man based on his weapon choices and quantity. After talking to him for close to thirty minutes he turned out to be a super nice guy just a bit misguided on his gun choices.

Doug.38PR
March 6, 2006, 06:54 PM
For whatever it's worth, in Arkansas (I think) 3 guns are the limit you can have. Of course in Texas you are legally allowed to have 20 or 30 guns on you as long as they are concealed, but still perhaps 3 guns isn't that many.

I typically don't carry more than one on my person going around. In the car around town I carry two (one on me one on the glove compartment) when I am traveling I load up the Highway Patrolman for more punch on the highway and wilderness (making 3 guns). I don't like having guns around me loaded unless they have a specific purpose behind it. Since I just got an AR 15 at the gunshow this past Saturday :) I might replace the Highway Patrolman with an AR 15 under the back seat.

I seem to remember a TFLner Private Messaging me once saying that he had a primary, a backup and a shotgun in the car, told a cop who pulled him over and the cop didn't even blink. They just concluded their discussion and went on about each other's business.

But no matter how many guns on you, no matter what the policeman may or may not think (I agree with those of you who said "it's none of their business") the fact is that they can't arrest you without cause.

But conducting yourself as a gentleman would likely defuse suspicions he may have about you.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 7, 2006, 11:38 AM
But no matter how many guns on you, no matter what the policeman may or may not think (I agree with those of you who said "it's none of their business") the fact is that they can't arrest you without cause.


Quite naive. If any officer wants to bring you in for some reason, there will be a reason. You can claim later in your defense that you were not in violation.

If one really studies police behavior, you know that it is complex and not just based on this legalistic, absolutist view of the 2nd Amend and what YOU think is the law.

Evidence abounds - look at troubles folks having traveling across places like NY even with guns clearly in carry mode by Federal statute. They get busted at airports or driving. HR 218 hasn't always been seen as protecting folks covered by it when they move through such states.

Also, I've gone to the American Society for Criminology meetings a few times and listened to presentations on police behavior by police officers. While most officers clearly are good guys, they report on departments who consistently and deliberately engage in tactics that are suspect to make arrests or clear cases. This small group doesn't care what you say is legal. If they decide to arrest you, you take the ride.

If you futz around with your guns, you make the dread furtive movement and you are toast - may be arrested or shot.

Impression management is important when you get to the ambiguous stop or officer that isn't Officer 2ndA.

So stop being so damn naive. If you drive around looking like a ninja - it may not be to your benefit with some. When you protest loudly about the Constitution - you may look nuts.

Model520Fan
March 7, 2006, 12:53 PM
newerguy,

I was carrying three guns the day before yesterday. Why do you think it was too many? Do you have any idea why I was carrying three? Why are you badmouthing me when you don't know what you are talking about?

I suggest that you learn a little more about carrying, or just carry for a while and think while you're doing it. Then you may come up with the answers by yourself. Unfortunately, I do not have the time right now to explain to you and defend my explanation, nor am I inclined to do so for someone who starts off by calling me names.

520

Doug.38PR
March 7, 2006, 02:16 PM
Quite naive. If any officer wants to bring you in for some reason, there will be a reason. You can claim later in your defense that you were not in violation.

If one really studies police behavior, you know that it is complex and not just based on this legalistic, absolutist view of the 2nd Amend and what YOU think is the law.

Evidence abounds - look at troubles folks having traveling across places like NY even with guns clearly in carry mode by Federal statute. They get busted at airports or driving. HR 218 hasn't always been seen as protecting folks covered by it when they move through such states.

Also, I've gone to the American Society for Criminology meetings a few times and listened to presentations on police behavior by police officers. While most officers clearly are good guys, they report on departments who consistently and deliberately engage in tactics that are suspect to make arrests or clear cases. This small group doesn't care what you say is legal. If they decide to arrest you, you take the ride.

If you futz around with your guns, you make the dread furtive movement and you are toast - may be arrested or shot.

Impression management is important when you get to the ambiguous stop or officer that isn't Officer 2ndA.

So stop being so damn naive. If you drive around looking like a ninja - it may not be to your benefit with some. When you protest loudly about the Constitution - you may look nuts.


I am not advocating "driving around looking like a ninja." You apparently have the wrong image of me. I opened this post saying simply that I carry a maximum of 3 loaded guns in the car on or about my person. I didn't say I dress in a ninja outfit or camoflauge pants and shirt or any other meaningless G.I. Joe macho image that you see in gun shops and gun ranges from time to time. I don't dress or go around that way. I don't shout at people (cops or otherwise) about the Constitution like some wild eyed paranoid nut either.
I am not naive either.
Yes there are jerk cops out there that will hassel you but that is all they can legally do is give you a hard time during the stop maybe even seize your arms (temporarily) even if it is just to give you trouble. If they make an arrest and I have broken no law, then they have crossed the line from legal to illegal.
If they arrest you without cause then I WILL SUE THEM FOR FALSE ARREST. I will do everything in my power to bring his supervisor, the court and even the media if need be down on him. You are not helpless in the longrun. Yes it may cost you to take him to court but it is worth it for you and for everyone else in the community.
Nobody can be searched or siezed (arrested) without cause or a warrant. Any cop who isn't taught that at the police acadamy (to say nothing of third grade history) should be doing something else for a living apart from LAW Enforcement.

As far as them hasseling you though, that goes back to the original post. Do you worry about whether cops will hassel you because you carry more than one gun on or about your person? Most other people in here seem to believe (some of them even LEOs I think) that it shouldn't be a problem as long as you are within the law.
Even your latest post indicates that it is a minority of police that are likely to give you trouble.

newerguy
March 7, 2006, 03:44 PM
520,

I'm not calling you names. I didn't mean to address any comments to you. If I did, I'm sorry, it was unintentional. I'll rephrase what I said. If I'm on the jury in a case where a civilian with three guns shot somebody, that factor alone is enough that I'm going to give him a second look and wonder whether I believed he could have considered every option other than lethal force. If he's got three guns on him because he's moving, coming back from the range, hunting (like I said, with a .22 plinker, a revolver and a hunting rifle), or he's got another explanation, than it explains all the weaponry, and all's well in my mind. If he's a cop or private security with a sidearm, backup and long gun (or spare pistol in his coat pocket, etc) then, again, it's a different story in my mind.

That said, you tell me you had no choice but to shoot someone, and you were carrying three handguns, yeah, I'm going to wonder if you really had no choice. It doesn't mean that's my final thought, it doesn't mean you can't 100% justify it, but it's a red flag.

Since I think cops are more suspicious than me, I expect multiple guns to be a flag to cops as well. Therefore, I'd worry about what cops might think, and I'd worry about whether having more than one gun will tip the scales against me when a cop is debating arresting me, ticketing me, or otherwise ruining my day.

This doesn't mean you don't have the right to carry three guns, and it certainly doesn't mean that there is no good reason for having more than three guns in your possession at once. To the range, hunting trip, moving, camping, buying and selling, work related, etc. If you just want three at once, then if it's legal, fine. I see it as being a red flag that could get you a second look. It doesn't make it wrong, it just invites a second look.

Doug,

If someone's out to get you, then a long gun and two handguns might make sense. If your not in witness protection, carrying diamonds, a secret agent, a cop whose worried about people he's locked up, or in the business of being sent into harms way (military, cop, some types of security), then why do you think you need two revolvers and an AR15 at all times, and what makes you think you'd survive a situation where you needed that much firepower?

Glenn E. Meyer
March 7, 2006, 03:53 PM
Doug - good luck in the lawsuits. Who's paying the lawyers by the way? Have any experience with this?

You ask questions which usually are focused on a touch of exaggerated gun behavior and then you get incensed when folks suggest caution.

Does anyone worry about what cops might think of those who have more than one gun on or about their person?

I frequently travel in my car with a mid sized revolver on my person, a 6 inch N-frame .357 in between my seat (a horsepistol of a sort ) and a little snub nose in my glove compartment for backup. All of them are loaded and I would be required to tell a policeman about them. What would he think about a guy with more than one gun on him?

So the answer is that there is a risk from some. Some might think you are a touch off. Many might not. That might lead to some more likelihood of arrest. I already told you that a study found that if you had an assault rifle in your car as compared to a shotgun, the officer might treat you more harshly in a minor matter.

That answers your question as a possible risk. Your response is to say what you are doing is legal and you will sue. Fine.

Don't like the answer - don't ask the question. You probably wanted to hear that it was fine and the officer would probably congratulate on being an upstanding defender of law and order. A champion of the 2nd amendment.

threegun
March 7, 2006, 05:23 PM
A+ again.

Doug.38PR
March 7, 2006, 05:50 PM
Doug,

If someone's out to get you, then a long gun and two handguns might make sense. If your not in witness protection, carrying diamonds, a secret agent, a cop whose worried about people he's locked up, or in the business of being sent into harms way (military, cop, some types of security), then why do you think you need two revolvers and an AR15 at all times, and what makes you think you'd survive a situation where you needed that much firepower?

newerguy,

I haven't even started carrying an AR15 yet, and probably won't do it very often. A lot of people carry rifles and shotguns in their cars.

As far as the other two guns go, many people in here and several gun writers would agree that carrying a backup (the glove comp gun) is a healthy thing. The .357 Highway Patrolman in between the seat is only carried when I am on the highway or in the country as it is a more powerful round that can 1) intimidate just by the site of it (end a gunfight before it starts), 2) penetrates auto bodies better and 3) can handle vicious animals (should I ever happen to encounter one....or if I should hit a deer and have to put him out of his misery :D ). So anyway, each gun has a purpose for being there.
I know I won't need all these guns at all times....in fact when you consider it furthur I won't need ANY gun and any time in all likelyhood, none of us will. Even the average policeman doesn't have to pull his gun except at the range. But they are there in case the "what if" ever happens. Well prepared.



Glenn Meyer,

Sounds like you are the one who is incensed.

threegun
March 7, 2006, 06:24 PM
Carry whatever makes you feel comfortable. Be extra nice to LE if you are pulled over and you will be fine. Trade in those tired wheel guns for a reliable 20th century fightin gun like the Glock. You won't need to carry two guns anymore.

Model520Fan
March 7, 2006, 07:00 PM
newerguy,

Sorry if I misread your intention. So far, it appears that I do not fit your definition of having a reason. However, your concern that I might appear in front of a jury without being able to articulate a reason for three guns is, in my opinion, intelligent forethought. My reason, even though all of the guns I carry are more reliable than Glocks under the anticipated conditions, is access to a gun under the anticipated conditions. I consider it prudent to have at least one gun available to the right hand and at least one gun available to the left hand, and there should be a gun available whether I am seated or standing. There are a number of ways of achieving this, depending on choice of clothing, physical condition and other factors. An upside-down shoulder holster would probably do it with one gun, as would some cross-draw holsters. Neither of these fit my normal mode of dress. Without dragging this out further, the desired availability usually requires two or three guns.

How do YOU access your gun quickly when you are belted into your car?

How do YOU access your gun when you are carrying something else, or when someone grabs your right wrist firmly?

jarhed
March 7, 2006, 10:06 PM
About two weeks ago I was involved in a civil legal action where I KNEW the PD would be involved. I was assisting in the removal of property from a business (partners splitting up) where the other partner had called 911 on several other occasions. The lawyers were involved and sure enough the 911 call said it was a robbery with "8 guys w/guns & masks". I ALWAYS carry but this time I left my artillery locked in my vehicle. When the cops showed it was just like "COPS" (as I expected). They did a tactical approach-and-apprehend with show your hands-walk towards me-drop to your knees-cuff and search. When they had us secure they checked my wallet and found my CCW and drivers license. "Where is your gun"!!! When I explained that I expected the 911 call and didn't want them "nervous" their attitude got MUCH better. I'm 52 and short haired w/ a neat beard and a white guy. If I had raised my shirt (as instructed) and they saw my 1911 (carried for years) or my FiveseveN (current carry) the tension level would have gone to warp factor 9. One cop said later (about the 911 caller) "What the hell is wrong with them-someone could end up shot over a BS call." They were especially worried about the FN. "What do you need that for,we don't like those pistols." Was I legal ? YES. Could I carry? YES. Was it smart not to? You decide. When they asked why I carry I gave my usual reply-Because I can & I'll never be an easy victim. That was something they understood.

newerguy
March 7, 2006, 10:59 PM
520,

You've got a point. I must say that, while your reason for carrying multiple guns still makes your practice different that what most people do, it's one I can understand. I agree that with most modes of carry, other than a sholder holster, you can't easily draw a gun while wearing a seat belt. Come to think of it, my father used to always stick his between the seat and the seat back. He was a cop, and it didn't matter, technically, if it was visible (in NYS, cops don't need to keep their guns concealed, obviously, and if he got stopped, he woundn't be in any trouble). If I was carrying, I wouldn't be able to keep hold of something in my right hand and draw a gun. I'm not saying that I share your concern, but I can understand it. My bother's a New York City cop, and he doesn't carry a backup gun, but said some guys do, and one reason they carry in an ankle holster is so they can get to it if they are on the ground fighting someone.

Doug,

Not many people carry loaded rifles or shotguns in thier cars in my neck of the woods (technically, that's an Enviornmental Conservation Law violation in New York). I can't speak for other parts of the country. I I've said my bit, I think Glenn's given this more thought than I have, and has problably put his thoughts togeather better than me. Do what you want. I think you're risking the bad kind of attention. Both threegun and jarhead make some other valid points.

Jarhead, sounds like you kept yourself out of trouble by thinking before getting into something. They teach you that at TBS, or did you learn the hardway? (Neither for me, I had more excuses than guts, but I know some real proud Marines.)

meplat
March 8, 2006, 12:29 AM
Again I just want to remind people that stolen guns are used in crimes. Your gun can be used to rob, rape, and kill if someone steals it.

I'm really not sure I get the logic behind this line of thought. Scotland is now in the process of knife "buy-backs" because of escalating knife inflicted injuries.

Would you hold yourself liable if someone broke into your home, stole a nice long butcher knife from your knife block, and then used it to rob, force a woman to submit to rape, or kill someone?

Philadelphia was a hub of baseball bat related deaths a few years back. Quiet, no waiting periods, and even if someone survived such an assault, they (even if willing) might just well be too vegetive to testify at trial.

Should someone burglarize you and steal a baseball bat, would you hold yourself responsible for any mayhem that followed?

Do you have a super secure knive safe? A secreted paneled baseball bat hidey hole? No? Hmmm...me neither.

I think I'd blame the scumbag(s) who stole my knives, baseball bats, tire irons, axes or kaiser blades from my woodshed, limbs off of one of my trees, or even rocks from my driveway and used them to commit a crime. If you think differently about any of the above, you are being inconsistant.

Why do you draw the line at holding firearms owners responsible for thuggery usage of something stolen from them???

Daid is daid. Raped is raped. Robbed is robbed.

Model520Fan
March 8, 2006, 05:54 AM
I must say that, while your reason for carrying multiple guns still makes your practice different that what most people do, it's one I can understand.

You don't know what most people do (nor do I).

Hunter Rose
March 11, 2006, 12:46 AM
I seem to be posting in a plethora of these threads tonight... :rolleyes:

When we finally get CCW here in WI, I'll be carrying three (usually): .45 1991 Compact IWB @3:30, Taurus 850 IWB @ 10 (available to either hand), and a Smith 19 .357 in my vest (my "colors"). Should an officer stop me, and I have to disclose, I'll be more than happy to let him know where each is, and allow him to disarm me (if he feels it is necessary). My biggest fear isn't being seens as "extreme", it's unning into an officer who feels the ned to disarm me, but is unfamiliar with the MOA of the weapons in question...

TheGunShack
March 11, 2006, 02:01 PM
I just wanted to say that here in TN we have "Handgun Carry Permits" that cover loaded long guns as well. We're not required to conceal our handgun(s), tho most do. Most everyone I know carries two, one being a NAA .22, sorta like a group thing. It may do the job. At least there is hope. The other in most cases is a Glock, tho I usally carry the S&W 696. Single action is my first pick, but mine are too big to carry around, & my tied down holster wouldn't look to good in the mall:rolleyes: