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View Full Version : Problems with dogs....advice sought


sje2081
February 22, 2006, 12:26 AM
My poor dog has been attacked for the second time in the past two years. She is a 60lb greyhound, and both times she was attacked completely unprovoked. This last time a few days ago, we were walking on a sidewalk across the street from a 150lb st. bernard sitting in its front yard. This dog (unleashed), bolted across the street and attacked my dog with no warning. Before the owner and I could separate, pretty significant damage was done. She will be ok, but it took a $500 trip to the vet to fix her up (which I will recoup by any means necessary).

Anyway, since this seems to keep happening, and too few seem to understand the concept of leash laws...I want to take steps to prevent this from happening again.

I live in a suburb of Houston, TX.

1) If I have a CHL (which I currently don't, but will look into one), could I use deadly force on a dog to protect my dog? Would I have to wait for an attack to begin (contact and biting), or can I take down a dog charging at us on public property (unleashed, which is illegal here).

2) Replace "dog" with say a child or myself being the one in danger. Would it be legal to draw and fire in this scenario?

3) Would I be better off equipping myself with pepper or bear spray? Are there any legal issues I would need to worry about in using this to protect my dog? I was looking at getting a can of alaskan bear spray, as it seems to be wicked powerful and have a strong stream. Any problems using something like this vs. something weaker like standard pepper spray?


Thanks for any insight!

chrisandclauida2
February 22, 2006, 12:40 AM
no you cant protect your dog with a weapon. it isn't like a kid no matter how much some animalnatzi's want it to be.

this said you can protect your self. any big dog charging me gets drawn on.

obviously you cant say the neighbors lasa poo charging you made you in fear of your life . you also cant go around pepper spraying every dog that rushes and barks in their yard.

i have sprayed many dogs and all of them ran away once they got a snout full. it is very hard to hit a dog with either a handgun or pepper spray.

i need to emphasize this. it is very difficult to hit a dog with a hand gun or pepper spray while it is moving. this only gets worse when your other hand is holding onto your dog.

so i would carry both. if the dog is charging you can reasonably say this big dog was charging me and i feared for my life but once a dog fight ensues you loose part of the truth to that statement. during a fight is a good time to deploy pepper spray.

finally ,you are responsible for every round so if you hit the road and ricochet into a person you are responsible.

IndianaDean
February 22, 2006, 01:12 AM
That's b.s. I know it won't be changed, but you should be able to protect your own dog or cat or any other animal from another's dog with deadly force.

People are going way over the deep end with this 'animal rights' garbage.
Animals if owned are property. We may love them, but they are property. You should have the right to protect your property.

I read a man put his own dog to sleep by shooting it. He was arrested and charged with cruelty to animals. Complete b.s.

Eghad
February 22, 2006, 01:41 AM
See what kind of leash laws the city has. In most cities animals can not run around loose and must have a liscense and shots. If the animals owners are violating the laws by letting thier animals run around free report them. You might also check the laws as they pertain to walking sticks...Cold Steel has some that might be useful.

springmom
February 22, 2006, 01:46 AM
Are you in Harris County or in the city? How far away are nearby houses? IF you are going to shoot, you might want to have shotshells in your gun. Unlikely to kill the dog but it will certainly discourage him.

However, if you discharge a weapon within a certain number of feet you may have problems with the sheriff.

More useful is to have animal control come and take the other dog away. If it is often out unleashed, you just have to call and they will come and get it. They're pretty responsive.

Springmom

Sir William
February 22, 2006, 02:07 AM
You want to be legal. The first thing is to buy training and obtain your CHL. Your instructor will advise you of SHOOT/DON'T SHOOT. I suggest a heavy walking stick. An Irish Blackthorn with a copper end ferrule is my choice. A good water pistol works well too. Fill it with vinegar and add some Thai or Habenero pepper sauce, aim for the eyes. If everything goes downhill, there are unarmed defenses still availible if you are aggressive. One thing to do is to grab the dags lower jaw and dislocate it. Hit the nose as hard as you can with your closed fist. Grab the ears and twist as hard as possible. Choke the dog. Kick it in the ribs as hard as you can. Gouge the eyes out with a improvised weapon. Carry a pocket knife.multi-tool? Punch some holes in the dog. I have been there and done that more than once. I have the vet bills to prove it and my ER bills too. I suggest researching the local vicious animal ordinances and copying them. Call 911 and report any vicious animal. A barking dog is not worth 911. A maw full of fangs 3 feet away is worth a bullet. Call 911 and a friend to take your dog. You also need EMS for you. Some idiots do not comprehend that if you die, their pet just bought them a murder charge.

RsqVet
February 22, 2006, 08:35 AM
Sir William ---

Some of your advise is seriously bad and risks parts of your anatomy that are hard to replace --- and thinking that you are going to get a firm enough hold on an atacking dog's lower jaw to dislocate it is folly --- you will get bit, on the hand and it's dam hard to repair some hand injuries, same for punching them on the nose ---

As somone who has been hands on breaking up and handeling many an aggressive dog I can not advocate anyone untrained ( or trained folks as a first line of defense for that matter) get a hand or wrist anywhere near the muzzle of an aggressive dog if you can avoid it, kicking and striking weapons are a much better idea.

In addition as a general word of caution your own dog may well bite you as well --- they are under attack, have a huge adrenaline dump and are going to be mroe or less firing at will --- just a warining as I meet people everyday who state that their dow would never bite them or anyone, obviously for good, well trained dogs this is the case, however even these dogs under the right stress will resort to defending themselves.

Now to address the posters questions of what to do:

1. Pre-attack / you know it is comming --- first off don't lose situational awareness and don't use flexi-leads unless you are in a very safe area as these put your dog way out beyond your control and observation, plus when the chips are down they will break, and are hard to hold onto, so in other words don't use flexi leads. If threatened, I would reccomend putting your dog up out of the fight zone if possibe -- carrying is an option for some --- parked cars are another -- this will keep an attacker from getting close --- I would rather pay to repaint the hood or roof of a car than to sew up my dog, The second thing I chose to do is put myself between the threat and my dog -- in this way if it's a problem them I AM threatened as well deadly force is indicated if need be. Backing out of the situation and leaving his "turf" is probibly the best first option, however if you are dealin with an extreamly aggressive dog you may well not have this option as it may happen quickly or he may pursue you. Like I said if he is coming at you and between you are between him and your dog then you are threatened, use of a bite sticck as described below, or pepper spary may be the next step to prevent attack, after that neutralization if need be with your weapon may be an option you chose to utalize because you have run out of others --- obviously like all things it's situation dependant and presuming that you are carrying a good weapon, with good carry ammo and feel the shot is safe (i.e. you are not shooting wildly at a moving dog 100 yards off in a crowded park) then you would have a very defensable shot in most jurisdictions as YOU were also threatened and had exahusted other options of deterrance / defense.

Though I do not have the referances, there have been several instances of situations like this I have read about and they typically workout ok for the person who makes the shot, as the circumstances typically speak for themself, again like and self defens shooting if you come off as a yahoo who likes your bang stick more than common sense you are going to have a problem however in most reasonable situations --- even ones where a neighbor reterived a weapon from home to stop an attack things were fine from a legal perspective, though there are no guarantees.


2. The attack is on --- first don't panic and evaluate the situation, stupid as this may sound in some dog fights at the shelter I have stood by for a a few minuetes while we got people and equiptment becuse little harm was being done --- a very common thing for an aggressor to do is come up and growl, grab some flank or neck skin and hold on --- the attaceked dog may submit and try and roll or may hold their grond and stand still and growl, however this is a relative stand off between the two dogs --- there is little harm being done as there is little chance of vital anatomy being damaged -- the WRONG thing to do in this circumstance and I see it all the time is for one person to grab, usually the attacked dog and try and pull / wrench it away --- the attacker takes this as the fight being on and will offten escalate things and roll or take a full neck hold so in this situation, if possible get two people and a pry stick to break things up as you wrenching your dog away without a method to contain or controll the attacker is just going to stimulate his aggression and once his bite hold is broken he is going to want to take another so you must either be able to controll him or occupy that bite with something other than your or your dog's anatomy.

Obviously getting a second person is not always possible and some attacks are savage so then you have to do it yourself, the best single thing is a stout stick --- Animal Controll Officers carry ASP batons for this and they work great if permited in your area --- what works best is prying the attackers jaw off with the bite stick and then "working" him away by letting him bite the stick and hopefully back away from you as you threaten him with this, though you are at risk here and your dog will be darting in and out between you or trying to protect you so you can imagine how hard this is going to be by yourself, most maladjusted pet dogs can probibly be eventually driven off however the serious problem dog, the fighting dog or the mis-trained protection dog is most likely going to stay at it untill some other person is able to physically contain them or they are made physically incapable of attack --- yes there are instances where a dog has to be physically neutralized beause of it's agression --- if you have to, you have to, make shure you shot is safe, esp. if you are at short dastances relative to the attacker, you and your dog. .

BTW for the poster who mentioned prosecution for shooting a dog to put it down, if it was done an an apropriate manner he will liekly beat that wrap unless they want to nail him for discharging a firearm in a city limit or something as gunshot dispatch though unapealling is listed as conditionally acceptable method to euthanize an animal, i.e. The American Veternary Medical Association recognizes it as acceptable if other alternatives are not available, depending again on the circumstances this should be enough to get him in the clear unless circumstances make it appear to have been an act of cruelty and not euthanasia.

GHT
February 22, 2006, 08:41 AM
As well as all the above advice..

Sue the owner of the St B. for the vet bills. You will get them.

Call animal control on anyone who allows their dog to run free.

G

cscoios
February 22, 2006, 08:50 AM
My kids, dog, and I ususally go for an evening walk around our neighborhood several times a week. We live out in the country and some dogs aren't restrained properly and get loose. Everytime we go out I have my Sig P220, spare mag, surefire, and an ASP. Most likely the ASP will be used if needed on an aggressive dog.

Trip20
February 22, 2006, 09:16 AM
Isn't it legal to use deadly force to protect your property in Texas? If so, does it extend to both theft and vandalism/destruction of property?

If the greyhound is your property... protect it.

stephen426
February 22, 2006, 09:53 AM
I think the best thing to do is get a strong defense spray such as pepper spray or mace. The bear spray thing should work too. I would go with a spray that sends out a mist rather than a stream. While the stream has more range, the fog covers much more area. Dogs, with their sensitive noses, will most likely turn tail and run.

I am a dog lover and I really would not want to shoot anyone's beloved pet when a non-lethal option is available. I'm sure you will probably get a lawsuit from the dog owner as well and he will spin his side of the story. As it was mentioned, a moving dog is a very hard target to hit. Think of how many people you could be endangering in the neighborhood with stray shots. If you can carry a gun, you can also carry a personal defense spray. While it is not as macho, it will deter most dogs. Go ask your postman what his experience is. I'll bet they don't carry guns to shoot agressive dogs.

If a dog is not deterred by the defense spray and it is causing serious injury to my dog, I would shoot it at point blank or contact range to avoid any chances of missing. This would obviously be the very last option. If the dog was attacking a person, I would still consider using the defense spray first since there would be a risk of shooting the bite victim. They would recover a lot faster from a dose of pepper spray than a bullet wound!

High Planes Drifter
February 22, 2006, 10:36 AM
sje- The EXACT thing happened to me a few years ago. My wife and I were walking our JRT in my neighborhood, when out of nowhere a chow mix came running from a backyard and attacks our dog. I kicked it till it let go, then it just stood there growling and barking at us. The owner was outside and I started yelling at him, he yelled back and had it not been for our wives, the situation would have come to blows. I called the police, they told me to call animal control. Animal control said they would walk the neighborhood and see if the dog came out; it didnt. I started carrying a gun, and did wind up having to pull it on the dog in front of the owner when it came after my dog again. I didnt know if it was legal or not, I really didnt care at that point to be honest. The man hauled *ss off his porch and grabbed the dog pleading with me not to shoot it. We had a talk after the situation decompressed and he agreed not to let his dog run loose.
My recomendation is to protect yourself. Maybe borrow a friends dog that can hold its own in a match. I hate to sound cruel, I certainly dont condone dog fighting; but you would be in your rights if you were walking a Pit, or an American Bulldog, on leash of course, and it happened to "tie up" with your problem dog and taught it a lesson. Then you wouldnt have to worry about gun laws, and whether or not you can legally shoot.

sje2081
February 22, 2006, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the responses all.

I am in both Houston and Harris County (outer parts on the west side). Basic suburbia neigborhood, houses everywhere. The dog was unleashed and just sitting on its property (owner was outside doing yardwork). We even walked by once without incident, second time it came charging from about 25yds away. I was slow to respond (wasn't sure if was just coming to say hello, it didn't bark or growl on the way in). Once the attack began, I was pretty helpless...a 150lb dog like that isn't something a normal human can subdue. Luckily, the owner had some control of his dog and was able to get him to back off verbally after a few seconds.

The owner is supposed to pay me today. Once the check is cashed, I plan to contact animal control and my HOA.

Anyway, the gun idea is probably a bad one. I will be looking into some sprays though. Any recommendations on brands I could buy online?

Thanks for the responses. Just getting ****** looking at my drugged out dog right now. Looks like franken-dog with all the stitches and shaved patches on her body. Poor thing is too nice to even defend herself...last time it was a small pack of pit bulls, this time it was a dog three times her size.

prime8
February 22, 2006, 11:59 AM
Buy some pepper spray, but STAND DOWNWIND!!! I would also like to know why every dog in the hood is pickin on your dog? Do you dress it up in sweaters & boots or something?? Bye the way if there should be leash laws for dogs, then there should be one for kids too!!!

Trip20
February 22, 2006, 12:54 PM
Is this a pepper spray board?

Yes, carry the non-lethal options - and even employ them first - but saying the gun is a bad idea is absurd. The gun should be on you as well.

Arm yourself with all tools that will aid you in your defense. I could be a ****** off dog chewing your pooch for lunch, or a human attacker bent on God knows what. But having more than one option available is not a bad idea in the least. Especially of the alternate options step up in effectiveness should the prior option fail.

Learn to use the weapons you've chosen, and carry them as often as possible.

Know your target and beyond. But by no means is concern for stray/ricochet bullets reason not to carry a firearm or even employ one if necessary. Learning the four rules is part of learning how to use your new weapon. If one is unable to adhere to the rules - then yes, stick to the pizza seasonings only.

If you’re serious about protecting yourself; if you’re serious about protecting your pooch or anyone else you love, get a pistol and learn to use it. Carry it with you as often as you can. One day, you may be glad you did.

ClarkEMyers
February 22, 2006, 12:57 PM
Consider a video camera in the neighborhood - also a Have-a-Heart(? spelling) live trap on your own property - if a neighbor's dog shows up in the trap call animal control to remove it.

Finally consider also a large enough fenced yard area that there is no need to annoy the neighbors by walking the dog around the neighborhood to do his business - depending on climate, stools in your own yard can be doggy dooleyed or washed down to fertilizer.

Capt Charlie
February 22, 2006, 01:45 PM
The laws on defending your dog are going to vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but here's something to consider if you need to shoot an aggressive dog: The ricochet.

You'll most likely have to shoot down at a dog, and in urban areas, the ground is most likely paved.

I say this because of an incident that occurred here a few years ago. We approached a house occupied by a wanted felon. The man opened the door and turned his pit bull loose on us while his girlfriend was standing on the porch. The dog was moving very fast and my lead officer fired on the dog and missed, hitting the concrete sidewalk. The round, a 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+ HP, ricocheted and struck the girlfriend in the jaw with sufficient force to penetrate and chip bone.

Just some food for thought, should you find yourself in a similar situation.

gunslinger1911ACP
February 22, 2006, 02:20 PM
I wouldn't use a gun to defend your dog. I would use a baseball bat though to defend my dog. I agree with GHT's comments as well as the pepper spray advice.

I might even approach the owner and rip him a new a-hole.

spacemanspiff
February 22, 2006, 02:39 PM
dont expect bear or pepper spray to stop a dog 100% of the time. heck, it doesnt even deter bears 100% of the time.

use the spray to give yourself and your dog time to get away. also consider delivering a good square kick to the attacking dog while its distracted.

a knife is a good option as well if you have to grab the attacking dog and pull it off yours. a 4" blade would do well to slice into the attacking dogs body.


today i seem to not feel much sympathy. if you dont have your dog on a leash, and its aggressive or attacks anyone, in my humble opinion, it doesnt deserve to live. and its not the dogs fault, the dog is just being a dog, its the owners fault for not keeping it secure, where it can be a dog on its owners property.

prime8
February 22, 2006, 02:56 PM
I completely agree with slinger!!! A dog is its owners responsibuility. Just like owning a firearm. I think all new dog owners should have to take a course in dog behaviors. You train the owners, not the dogs. Dogs are dogs. They will do as much as thier owner lets them get away with. Alot like a child!!!

Donovan655
February 22, 2006, 03:09 PM
seems to me just firing the gun would scare off the dog and let the owner of the dog know that you mean business.

you never know when you could be mobbed by a pack of dogs.

RsqVet
February 22, 2006, 05:42 PM
Spiff ---

A+ and amen, aggressive dogs that get put down either in the street or in the pound have 98% of the time been failed / messed up by their owner, then if they are running in the street their owner has failed them a second time --- in keeping them under controll.

Sad but true.

No one I think is advocating a shoot first aproach but for some rare cases it may come to this.

WhyteP38
February 22, 2006, 06:35 PM
I would use a gun to defend myself from a dog attack, if I felt the dog could do some damage to me (that is, something bigger than a dachshund). Dog bites can be really nasty, cutting tendons and ripping muscles and other unpleasant things. I read that the woman who had the "face transplant" needed that new face after being mauled by a labrador retriever, which is normally considered one of the more passive breeds. And then there's that woman who was mauled to death in San Francisco not too long ago.

Dogs are predators and have the appropriate equipment. They also have an instinct to chase down prey, so running can be a very bad idea unless you have some place to escape into before the dog catches you.

I wouldn't use a gun to defend my dog because the chances are too high of screwing up and hitting my dog, or some person, or something else.

Pepper spray is a good choice, if you can deploy it so it doesn't hurt you or your dog in the process. Who knows, the owner may be such a jerk that he tries something against you while you're coughing and sputtering. For that reason, the spray wouldn't be my first choice, though for dog-on-dog I like it better than the gun.

A stout walking stick seems like the best idea to me. You get more reach than trying to break up the fight with your own hands (a really bad idea, since you'll need to bend down, and thus put your face in danger). Also, you have more control over a stick than you do a gun or a spray, and you may be able to use the stick to keep the dog away from you long enough for it to give up or the owner to retrieve it. A sharp downward strike on the aggressor's back should get the dog's attention or even break the spine. A whack at his legs might break one or two. Be careful about a diagonal strike, as you might hit your own dog. Sticks are also useful against two-legged foes.

I love dogs and have always had them, but if it looks like my dog or I will suffer serious injury from an attacking dog, I will do my best to avoid those injuries in any way necessary.

Trip20
February 22, 2006, 07:18 PM
If you wouldn't normally allow yourself with in arms reach of a badguy to use a stick (most of you are armed with a pistol all the time to avoid this very thing), do not be so willing to employ inferior weapons against an animal built to do more damage than a human.

A ****** off 75lb dog - not a massive dog by any means - is not an animal you want to irritate with a poor swing from a "walking stick." If your ___ caliber handgun isn't a "one shot man stopper," I doubt your best Babe Ruth swing isn't a "one smack dog dropper."

petemo
February 22, 2006, 07:28 PM
It's one thing to wip out a gun and start shooting out in the woods in a dog confrontation situation. It's another to start shooting in a neighborhood where children may be out playing or someone else may be walking. A handgun permit may be easy to get where you are but the implications and responsibility of using deadly force cannot be taken lightly. I live in a county in rural Georgia that is quickley becoming populated with subdivisions and explosive growth because of proxmity to major interstates. Guess what???
NO animal laws at all. They run loose at will. If you shoot and get caught guess again?? It's Jail time for cruelty.
I was driving to work the other day and saw a three legged dog eating a dead buzzard beside the road.
I ride a bike so I have started taking a Marksman air pistol. It shoots a bb just hard enough to run most dogs off. Never used pepper spray can't help you there.
Other than that I guess a stick is the only option. Not right when a stray dog has more rights than you. He can poop in your neighbors step and nothing happens. You try it!!!
Petemo:) :)

kymasabe
February 22, 2006, 08:04 PM
Carry a nice heavy golf club and cave it's skull in next time it attacks your dog. My Spaniel has been attacked a couple of times by my neighbors Shepherd and I told the neighbor in no uncertain terms, if it happens again, I'll kill his dog on the spot and toss it's dead body thru his front window.:mad:

#18indycolts
February 23, 2006, 03:07 AM
It's not the ANIMAL, IT'S THE OWNER!!!! All owner's for vicious animals should be RESPONSIBLE for anything!!!! That said, my babies are 2 pitbulls....any problems? NEVER! Every person needs to be accountable for what they own. I'm very responsible and I've taken ALL measures to be safe...what ever happens, the OWNER should be punished!

WhyteP38
February 23, 2006, 10:38 AM
If you wouldn't normally allow yourself with in arms reach of a badguy to use a stick (most of you are armed with a pistol all the time to avoid this very thing), do not be so willing to employ inferior weapons against an animal built to do more damage than a human.

A ****** off 75lb dog - not a massive dog by any means - is not an animal you want to irritate with a poor swing from a "walking stick." If your ___ caliber handgun isn't a "one shot man stopper," I doubt your best Babe Ruth swing isn't a "one smack dog dropper."
I agree with you 100% ... when it's a dog-versus-human encounter. However, the original poster's situation is a dog-versus-dog encounter, and that makes a critical difference.

Here in North Carolina, YOU or ANOTHER PERSON must be in danger of sexual assault, serious bodily injury, or death before you can use deadly force. Danger to your dog doesn't count. Plus, it's too easy to shoot your own dog. THAT is where the stick is handy.

Dogs don't multi-task very well, if at all. If the aggressor dog is attacking your dog, you have an excellent chance of using a stick effectively against the aggressor dog because it's not going to be watching your movements. BUT ... if that same aggressor dog then fixates on you, you must put up a serious offense--not defense--so your first efforts must be 100% focused on doing as much damage, even fatal damage, to the aggressor dog so as to minimize the potential threat to yourself. Dogs don't give up easily, so don't expect that.

I have been attacked, and have seen others attacked, by dogs. I found the experience to be much scarier than being attacked by humans because dogs don't hold back. A human might knock you down, figure the fight is over, and leave. A dog has no such social conscience. It will likely keep tearing at you until something scares it off.

A "****** off 75lb dog" is indeed terrifying. In fact, from my own experience, I'd say a ****** off 40lb dog can cause death or permanent injuries to an adult male human if the human panics. You do not want to be the target of an Australian cattle dog (or the equivalent Queensland Heeler), which typically weighs 40-45 pounds.

It's not the ANIMAL, IT'S THE OWNER!!!! All owner's for vicious animals should be RESPONSIBLE for anything!!!! True. But if my dog or I or both are being attacked by someone's dog, the immediate threat is the dog. Since attacking dogs are unpredictable, my goal will be to neutralize the dog. And since I don't want an attacking dog to turn its aggressions from my dog and onto me, my neutralizing efforts will be to kill the attacking dog, if possible. After that, I'll sue the dog's owner.

By the way, if you've ever studied escrima, you know that you can readily use a stick to kill a person. You can use those same skills against an attacking dog. The primary advantage you gain from a gun is that of distance. Either way, you can't just grab a stick or a walking cane and expect to employ it properly unless you put in some practice first. You can learn escrima skills in a relatively short time, much shorter than martial arts hand-to-hand skills. Unfortunately, escrima sticks in many places are illegal to carry. However, the advantages of a walking stick are that they are legal to carry openly and many escrima skills are directly applicable to walking sticks.

High Planes Drifter
February 23, 2006, 01:17 PM
Here in North Carolina, YOU or ANOTHER PERSON must be in danger of sexual assault, serious bodily injury, or death before you can use deadly force.
---------------------------------------------------
Whyte, I would think the law was refering to the use of deadly force against a human in that regard. I am sure you have the right to shoot a wild animal in North Carolina if it is atacking your livestock.? I would see no difference when it comes to a pet. Its property, and if it is being attacked and is in immediate danger of being killed I am sure you would have the right to protect that property with the use of deadly force against another animal; wether it be domestic or wild.

Trip20
February 23, 2006, 01:32 PM
I agree with you 100% ... when it's a dog-versus-human encounter. However, the original poster's situation is a dog-versus-dog encounter, and that makes a critical difference.

Here in North Carolina, YOU or ANOTHER PERSON must be in danger of sexual assault, serious bodily injury, or death before you can use deadly force.

I understand what you're saying. I suppose I can only respond by saying an angry animal with knashing teeth can easily put me in fear of "serious bodily injury." That qualifies me to shoot if I feel it necessary. I will not wait for the actual bite - ever.

To rely on spray or a stick to stop the situation is, IMO, naive. I've seen many an angry dog, and I've also wrestled enough with my own dog to know I could be easily over powered (I'm 6" tall and a little over 200lbs). He only lets me win because he thinks I'm the alpha male.

Remember that you're walking your dog in the original scenario. I'm assuming we would all try to separate the dogs... therefore, in the process, it's entirely plausible that one could fear serious bodily injury... and even death depending on the dog and the situation.

I've got one of those "evil" dogs; a Rott. If he attacked someone or their dog, I would understand if he was shot. It's my own damn fault.

gary c coffey
February 23, 2006, 01:53 PM
Great ideas and good advise. As a meter reader for a southern power company I come in contact daily with all kinds of dogs on their own turf . I am not permitted to carry a firearm while working so I have to depend on pepper spray. Totally useless when cold, If it blows back the dog is not effected and you are. Often have to look to see which way the nozzle is pointing. I have learned to handle myself pretty well in these situations ( 26 years and never bitten ) However, when I get home it's another story. When walking my dogs I carry a NAA mini derringer. two 22 cal. Speer shotshells ready to roll up followed by 3 stingers if necessary to end the fight. In my area, It may be more than one dog!

WhyteP38
February 23, 2006, 01:58 PM
Whyte, I would think the law was refering to the use of deadly force against a human in that regard. I am sure you have the right to shoot a wild animal in North Carolina if it is atacking your livestock.? I would see no difference when it comes to a pet. Its property, and if it is being attacked and is in immediate danger of being killed I am sure you would have the right to protect that property with the use of deadly force against another animal; wether it be domestic or wild.
You may be right. However, none of the materials I got from my CCW class covers attacks by animals, so I can't give you a legally valid answer. Quite bluntly, I haven't considered the question before this thread because my dog is a 90-pound German Shepherd that gets 30 minutes of hard exercise three days per week and is now solid muscle. I call her a cement duffel bag with legs. Very few dogs are willing to let her approach them; fewer approach her, so I've had no problems yet.
I suppose I can only respond by saying an angry animal with knashing teeth can easily put me in fear of "serious bodily injury." That qualifies me to shoot if I feel it necessary. I will not wait for the actual bite - ever.

To rely on spray or a stick to stop the situation is, IMO, naive.
I can't fault your reasoning, and if I ever pulled a gun on an aggressive dog, I would clearly state that I (not my dog) felt threatened by it. If I felt I could get off a good shot without undue risk to others or to my dog, I'd do it. I might have to wait until an opportunity presented itself, meaning my dog would suffer some damage, but at least that damage would not come from me, nor would I accidentally damage any innocent people.

Actually, in my situation, that would be my only option, as my dog is sufficiently large enough that I don't bring a walking stick along. But the question was related to the poster's situation, not mine. When I had a smaller dog--a dachshund--and felt my environment warranted it, I brought along the walking stick. I spent about 18 months studying escrima and bo staff, so I'm adequately skilled with sticks.

It's all about compromises and which compromises you're willing to make. If I could, I'd rather carry a carbine rifle. That option doesn't exist, so I carry a pistol. Sometimes, it's a .45 Commander; othertimes, it's a Bersa T380. It all depends on the situation and what compromises I feel I need to make to best fit the situation.

NOTE ADDED: I'd be reluctant to shoot a dog that is bigger than mine and dominating over it for fear that the bullet would pass through the aggressor and into my dog. I'd also be more reluctant to use a stick on a rottweiler than on a doberman. From my limited experience with rotties and dobies, I believe that snapping the spine of a rottie would be significantly more difficult than that of a dobie. I could be wrong in that, but the more heavily built rotties seem less vulnerable to that kind of strike. With a rottie, you may not have much choice other than a gun. So I'd have to say the kind of attacking dog is another factor, which means there may not be any single best answer to the scenario.

sparkysteve
February 23, 2006, 06:01 PM
I had a similar situation with a neighbor's dog. I was washing my pickup in my driveway and had my Labrador Retriver on his leash in the front yard. The neighbors Golden Retriever, which wanders the neighborhood daily, came over to my dog. I watched closley as they began sniffing the others backsides and getting aquainted. Then for no apparent reason the neighbors dog bit my dog in the back of the neck and began growling. I then ran over and gave him a size 12 work boot in the ribs. He ran off as my neighbor began yelling at me from her house. She threatend to sue ME! I told her "good luck". Her dog attacked MY dog, which was tied up, on MY property. My dog had a few scratches, nothing too serious.

I'm sure the distiction between protecting people or dogs is a pretty grey area as far as written law is concerned. But your dog is also considered your property. It's a tough call. I would seek non-lethal options first.

Dwight55
February 23, 2006, 06:17 PM
A friend of mine used to professionally show Norwegian Elkhounds, . . . and her dogs were worth some bucks.

She was virtually never without her bottle of ammonia, . . . any dog that took it upon him/herself to attack her dog got a shot of ammonia sprayed on them post haste. END OF FIGHT, . . . PERIOD!

If she had time, . . . she would quick pour it onto a cloth and throw the cloth on whichever dog was closest, . . . and it would do the same thing, . . . and was actually less bothersome to that dog than getting sprayed.

I used a balloon with ammonia water on a bothersome mutt that chased me on my bicycle, . . . and he never chased me again.:D

Just another option, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

WhyteP38
February 23, 2006, 06:32 PM
She was virtually never without her bottle of ammonia, . . . any dog that took it upon him/herself to attack her dog got a shot of ammonia sprayed on them post haste. END OF FIGHT, . . . PERIOD!
Good point. Now that you mention it, I remember reading about the use of ammonia against aggressive dogs. A dog's sense of smell is supposed to be something like 40 times more sensitive than a person's. A blast of ammonia in the nose and eyes would make an impression.

I'd like to get the perspective of some animal control officers. I wonder if the ammonia trick would work against an aggressive, larger dog, or how much range you can get on a spray bottle and still have an effective blast.

Dwight55
February 23, 2006, 06:43 PM
Actually her ammonia was full strength, . . . and in a bottle kinda like a "Corn Huskers Lotion" bottle. The spray wasn't necessary for eyes / face / nose, but rather just anywhere she could hit the critter. She swore that it would break them up, . . . no matter what.

May God bless,
Dwight

Ares45
February 23, 2006, 08:44 PM
I am sure you have the right to shoot a wild animal in North Carolina if it is atacking your livestock.? I would see no difference when it comes to a pet.

Think again. A goat farmer was recently charged/arrested in Stokes Co, NC for shooting a misplaced rabbit dog not too long ago. Seems the goat guy had lost several goats recently and came out the back door blazing. The way I see it you have more leeway in protecting your livestock than your family pet. Obiously it doesn't alway work out that way.

parlorshark
February 23, 2006, 09:47 PM
As a rural carrier I can tell you pepper spray does work usually ,ammonia in a spray bottle always does . But a UPS lady told me about useing milk bone treats , carry a pocket full toss a few to the dog when you leave the truck , never a problem , he's your friend now . However when it comes to walking your dog the best answer is to walk them somewhere else . Its a big country and there are plenty of places to walk your dog , to continue to put your dog in a dangerious situation that you already know about is reckless . The one point those of you have missed is the other dogs owner . Think about this . I'm sitting at my desk reading TFL forms . I hear gunfire in front of my house . Its 15 feet to my front door , I'll be there armed with a shotgun in 5 seconds or less . The first thing I see is you with a handgun and a dead dog , mine . You have just proven means and intent , so I'm now fearfull . Its 30 feet to the road , I wont miss . Since the only story being told is mine I wont ever do a day in jail . My dogs are tied or inside always so this wont happen at my house but it is a very possable senario . Best to walk them elsewhere and avoid the hassle .

orionengnr
February 23, 2006, 09:59 PM
I think we did this a month or so ago...

the "You shoot my dog and I'll shoot you" thing....

:rolleyes:

riverrat66
February 23, 2006, 10:38 PM
However when it comes to walking your dog the best answer is to walk them somewhere else . Its a big country and there are plenty of places to walk your dog , to continue to put your dog in a dangerous situation that you already know about is reckless.
So I should have to walk my dog in a different neighborhood just because the jerk across the street won't leash his vicious dog? Yeah right!

His dog has chased the mailman, meter reader and just about everyone else who has walked down the street. This dog has even bit the owners wife and once knocked my buddy off his Harley as he pulled into my driveway! But in my neck of the woods it's illegal to shoot a dog for any reason. This dog takes a dump on my lawn and I throw it right in the middle of his owners driveway. I've told this guy time and time again to keep his dog away from my house and my dog but to no avail, so guess what happened? The dog died of mysterious circumstances. :confused: Too bad!

LICCW
February 23, 2006, 10:48 PM
So many irresponsible dog owners out there, I just fenced my yard and excercise my dog in the yard. I gave up dealing with unleashed menaces.

parlorshark
February 23, 2006, 10:55 PM
riverrat66 , In your situation the animal contol officer is the answer . And this is not a you shoot my dog I shoot you thing , I love my dogs but they ar'nt worth a human life . But when someone hears shots fired , see someone with a gun that has demonstrated they are going to use it , and is fearfull of thier life and is armed , then you have means, intent and fear . Someone is going to get shot , right or wrong , its going to happen.

Pointer
February 23, 2006, 11:18 PM
Put a spiked collar on your Greyhound...

Carry a pointy stick and use the stick to poke holes in the St Bernard...

If that doesn't do it shoot St Bernard with taser darts...

Maybe it will die as a result...

Then have CW for final backup... :D :rolleyes:

riverrat66
February 23, 2006, 11:49 PM
You say you love your dogs but they aren't worth a human life but then you say, "The first thing I see is you with a handgun and a dead dog , mine .You have just proven means and intent , so I'm now fearful . Its 30 feet to the road , I wont miss. Since the only story being told is mine I wont ever do a day in jail."

Fearful of what? You're IN the house so there's no threat of physical deadly harm to you! Just call the police and let them handle it. Sure you're ******, someone just shot your dog but by going outside you're placing YOURSELF in danger. Only your story? What about witness', like maybe the neighbors? Don't you think they're gonna hear the shot that killed your dog also?

Me? If I see someone OUTSIDE with a handgun, I sure as hell ain't going out there to confront them and put myself in danger. I'm not that anxious to get into a gunfight.

But when someone hears shots fired , see someone with a gun that has demonstrated they are going to use it , and is fearful of their life and is armed , then you have means, intent and fear . Someone is going to get shot , right or wrong , its going to happen.
Maybe you should be in law enforcement. Otherwise I hope you have a good lawyer and lots of money!

parlorshark
February 24, 2006, 12:04 AM
Jeez , its just a senairo no need to get all worked up over it . I used the point of view of the homeowner to show a point . That a bad situation can turn very bad in a hurry . Its better to avoid a situation like this 1 then to let pride lead you into it . Remember Pride is 1 of the 7 deadly sins .

riverrat66
February 24, 2006, 12:49 AM
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not at all worked up. I just wouldn't want anyone to do anything irrational and get into trouble and possibly go to jail when it could be avoided. Nowdays the younger generation seems to act before thinking about the consequences of their actions. That's why I always say as a CCW permit holder if you can avoid a confrontation with anyone I think it's your responsibility to do so and if you can avoid using your firearm you should do so unless you have absolutely no choice.

"Remember Pride is 1 of the 7 deadly sins" Yes but also "it takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight......"

We're cool.:cool:

stevelyn
February 24, 2006, 08:06 AM
I'm with spiff on this one.

Aggressive dog off leash=dead dog bleeding out where it drops.

WhyteP38
February 24, 2006, 09:21 AM
Seems to me a call to animal control is the best first response if you know there's a problem dog(owner) in your area.

Until the situation is resolved, and for unexpected situations that may come up, the ammonia bottle is worth a try next. Generally, dogs do what works and don't do what doesn't work. They excell at pattern recognition. If some dog comes after you, and you blast ammonia into his face, I'm guessing he probably won't do that anymore, or will do it once more at most. Now, no one is hurt and there's no risk of using your gun in a way that might get you into trouble.

No homeowner is going to say, "I saw you with an ammonia bottle and felt threatened, so I shot you in self-defense." Well, maybe there is a homeowner out there who will do that, but that person would be insane and would probably do something no matter what you did or didn't do. And that's a different topic entirely.

Oh, and as a general rule, I never make any threats to people with whom I have problems. Giving them my own words to use against me later is giving them an advantage I don't want them to have. I will PROMISE them that I'll call the authorities if their aberrant behavior continues, but I won't threaten to kill their dog and dump the body on their porch. They might, however, discover their dead pooch on their porch, and will then have to wonder what happened.

High Planes Drifter
February 24, 2006, 10:09 AM
You guys should read my post again. I called animal control when my dog was attacked. They checked it out, but scince the dog wasnt loose at the time they came (1 time) they let the case go. Alot of the time they will actually tell you " you need to catch the dog, we just pick up". Ive had that happen in another situation where a neighbors mutt was upsetting my trash.
I've never heard of the ammonia trick, sounds like a great idea. Or you can do like I said earlier; ask a friend who owns a bad-a** dog if you can borrow it. You'd be surprised how many people start minding thier dogs better when you start walking a pitt around the neighborhood a few times a week.

riverrat66
February 24, 2006, 10:15 AM
They might, however, discover their dead pooch on their porch, and will then have to wonder what happened.
Now you've got the idea.

Seems to me a call to animal control is the best first response if you know there's a problem dog(owner) in your area.
Around here that's a waste of time!

WhyteP38
February 24, 2006, 10:23 AM
High Planes Drifter, you're right (of course) about your original post and the call to animal control. So ...

8 ounces of radiator fluid: 12 cents
Plastic dog dish you will use only once: 99 cents
Never having to deal with the neighbor's aggressive dog again: Priceless

High Planes Drifter
February 24, 2006, 10:35 AM
Ah ... the ol' Prestone green steak eh'

Mikeyboy
February 24, 2006, 11:08 AM
I have a some OC (but I might try the ammonia trick) and I carry an old wooden broom handle cut in half (about 2ft worth) with a leather landyard (old leather shoelace, with a loop as big as my foot). A lot of the old timers I knew growing up did this for dogs and for two legged BG. There was a mean dog on my street that would terrorize all the kids. One day I watched this old guy in the neighborhood was walking his dog (a little white toy poddle) and he would always carry the stick in his armpit of his leash hand, with the laynard dangling in front. Every old guy in my neighborhood did this, and as a kid I never knew why. Well the mean dog attacked his dog an the guy grabbed the strap with his thumb and in a whipping motion the stick came out moving faster than Babe Ruth's bat. I can still hear the crack and the yelp from that dog. One whack and the dog took off limping. If a BG got whack on the side of the knee or head like that he would probably go down. You can also use it like a club or a pry bar to seperate frisky dogs with it. Sometime the old tricks works the best.

If my dog attacked another person's dog, I would offer to pay the vet bill. If this guy didn't offer...Sue in small claims court. You don't need a laywer to do it.

Bo Hunter
February 24, 2006, 11:18 AM
A few years ago this old timer (he had to be at least 80) was telling me about a dog that used to get into his trash. He took a 12 ga shotshell, pried it open, dumped out the pellets and replaced them with Rock Salt. He said he never had a problem with that dog in the garbage after that.....

Duxman
February 24, 2006, 12:42 PM
Being a responsible dog owner (both with the leash and Poop pick up), I will have to go with these options previously discussed:

1) Animal control (call everytime you see the dog unleashed....Escalate to a supervisor and threaten a lawsuit if they dont respond often and fast. You are after all paying their salary as a taxpayer.)

2) Lawsuit against irresponsible dog owner (Start with small claims court - you dont need a lawyer, bring your vet bills and documentation of the incident - witnesses if you have them, even after you cash his $500, hit him for psychological damages - $1000 more.) Then he will think twice about letting his dog loose.

3) Ammonia is a very cool solution as described by other posts, but I would go with a stun gun. 500,000 volts of pure energy will stop that dog cold. ASP(s) are illegal to CC here in VA.

kozak6
February 24, 2006, 08:56 PM
It's interesting that you mention the stungun.

The sound of it alone makes my little pugs literally turn tail and go hide under the table.

On another occasion, we were up at the cabin in Prescott, and a small pack of dogs came up the driveway, not looking too happy to see us. My father happened to have the stungun handy, sparked it, and the dogs turned right around and went away.

Of course, the problem with a stungun is that if the sound doesn't scare off the dog, it's useless beyond poking range.

Smoke Screen
February 25, 2006, 12:09 AM
Ok fellas. If you have a gun, carry it but not in +p. Use subsonics/hollowpoints. If you don't have a CCW, carry an asp. A steel telescopic baton swung with full force WILL break the jaw of any mutt. Maybe the spine, and for sure legs. If a dog was locked on to mine and I was carrying, I'd put that barrel right up to its neck and shoot straight down. If you DON"T have a CCW, bear spray maybe, but I trust my own strength with steel baton or nightstick more than some canister. Its windy where I live anyhow.

A dog once charged into my uncles yard and started attacking his dog. It took the both of us wrestling on the ground to pull them apart. And they were medium sized dogs. If I wasn't in my boxers and had my folder with me, I would have stuck that dog in the neck and pulled as hard as I could. A dog is property. And some dogs cost thousands of dollars. I'll be damned if I let some flea bitten, rotten, untrained mutt kill my dog or maim me. I killed a dog in the Dominican Republic for biting me. (I have 3 scars on my legs from dogs biting me there and in the US) I slammed it against a concrete wall. No laws there though!

dm1333
February 25, 2006, 12:35 AM
As a long time road and mountain biker I have had to draw a gun on a dog and I have pepper sprayed several dogs. I had a guy yell at me that he was calling the cops, after his dog chased me and I sprayed it. I happened to be next to a large hospital with a lot of witnesses so I stuck around instead of riding off. The cop took one look at the unleashed dog and all the witnesses and told the owner to leash the dog before he was cited. And the D@#$ dog never chased me again.

WhyteP38
February 25, 2006, 01:07 PM
Not everyone can legally own, much less carry, Asps or stunguns or handguns. While I was originally in favor of a walking stick, after reading all of the suggestions and consequences, I think the ammonia bottle is the way to go. Simple, cheap, effective, and legal. If I spray ammonia on some guy's dog and he wants to sue me, he's living in fantasy land.

Seven High
February 25, 2006, 01:26 PM
One thing that you should consider is contacting your local police department or animal control and tellling them of the incident. Get the persons name that you talked to. Write it down with the time and date that you called. Tell them that you want to file charges against the owner of the dog. If the owner can be determined, sign an affaidavit against them. You might have to go to court and testify against them. It will be worth it in the end as they will have to control their animal. Other persons will not then be put in danger. I personally carry a snubnose .38 with the first shot CCI birdshot. The next four are for real. I also carry Halt dog repellant. It works real well.

Ga Johnny
February 26, 2006, 05:27 AM
pack some hamburger meat with decon and toss it in the bad dogs yard. You've done the whole neighborhood a public service.

Capt Charlie
February 26, 2006, 01:18 PM
Some of you guys might want to re-think the antifreeze and Decon. Shooting a dog that's actively attacking you, or even your dog is one thing, and is justifiable in most states, but poisoning a domestic animal is illegal in most states and will land you in jail.

WhyteP38
February 26, 2006, 02:12 PM
Some of you guys might want to re-think the antifreeze and Decon. Shooting a dog that's actively attacking you, or even your dog is one thing, and is justifiable in most states, but poisoning a domestic animal is illegal in most states and will land you in jail.
I hope folks understand that my post about antifreeze was intended as a joke, thus the reference to the Visa card commercial.

Rock and Glock
February 26, 2006, 02:28 PM
Go with the strongest pepper spray legal in Texas, and carry a golf club as a "swagger stick" LOL A nice short wood should put bad doggy in cuckoo land, and keep you and yours safe.

SIGSHR
February 26, 2006, 04:15 PM
A water pistol filled with ammonia is an old standby. Years ago I lived in a
neighborhood with an obnoxious and belliggerent dog. Gave him a good blast,
made sure he got it on his snout. He never bothered me again.

Gazpacho
February 26, 2006, 11:53 PM
Taurus 45 Colt snubby loaded with 1 shot shell ready to go, followed by 4 Glazer Safety slugs.

A dog qualifies as a lethal weapon. It can out-run and out-fight most people.

"Officer, I was out walking my dog, minding my own business, when this crazy dog (while pointing to the carcass in the street) went nuts, barking and charging across the street, straight for me. What did my dog do? I don't really know. I was so scared by that viscious dog charging at me, the only thing on my mind was stopping it. Sir, it was coming to kill me. I just know it. I have a CCW permit, and I carry to protect myself against other people, not against mad dogs trying to chase me down and kill me. I mean, I LOVE dogs. I've always owned dogs, but I've never had one try to kill me."

Now, if you happened to be in the middle of a dog run, then I'd recommend jamming the revolver down the dogs throat first, so there would be no question as to the dog's intent.

Kas
February 28, 2006, 05:10 AM
Two or four legged attackers would seem best dealt with various levals of defense being available(on you).1st being pepper(or ammonia if you prefer)2nd a hickory/oak cane(asps or batons are illegal in lot of places like here in Oklahoma)3rd CCW with Glasers/Magsafes/RBCDs etc.Then you could try the spray,then the cane, and then that failing,Maybe Bang!"I was in fear of being maimed or killed officer!"(Really!)Measured deterence(incremental) is good IF possible as then if you do get in a legal situation you have tried to do all that's reasonably possible, before shooting.Best to avoid problems when you can,but equipped to deal with them if you can not.So when I leave my property,small pepper spray goes in my shirt pocket,.380 in my pants pocket(Kel Tec),folding serrated knife(seat belts or last resort),and would add a cane if going walking where a problem could arise.Before getting CCW(96)I had a number of instances (over several decades)just walking down the street/sidewalk, of aggressive dog/dogs coming at me in which case I pulled a folding knife and fortunately they decided not take it to the next level.Sabre makes good product(pepper/or pepper+cs gas)straight pepper is suppose to be best on 4 legged predators(bear spray etc.)while pepper+cs is supposed most effective on the 2 legged predators.Rather than mist type spray,the stream type spray would be less likely to blow back on you.Yes,I know this is not "the pepper spray forum",But having given this a lot of thought(dealing various type of predators)and talking with a friend who is an ethical/moral/ pro gun trial attorney,NRA member("yes Virgina they do exist!")I would strongly consider your options before you get in a situation.Oh,by the way he has not gotten in habit of carrying "pepper"on him(in the car/house),was taking a walk in his neighborhood(about dusk)was confronted by a menacing German shepard,and found his snubby .38 with Crimsom Trace laser grips very comforting,and was able to back away from threat with the dog breaking off.In his neighborhood,someone would have called the police,if he had been seen("sheep")Some pepper spray in this instance could have been very satisfying and good learning experience(for the dog)as well as alot more politically correct(less legal risk)As to protecting your property with deadly force,you would well advised to check your state/local laws.Here in OK. IF someone comes in your house uninvited and you feel you are being threatened with severe bodily harm/death you supposed to be immune from criminal/civil libelability,if you use deadly force.But if you hear someone commiting a property crime outside the house and "leave the safety of your house" and armed,confronted the poor misguided criminal,or say fired a warning shot into the ground you could be arrested for threatening/using deadly force which you can not do here(property crime):mad: I make no claim as being any thing like an "expert" or a "attorney",but as victim of some "minor" property crimes recently(stolen tires/puntured sidewalls),found out (was reminded?)that there was very substantial risk(criminal/civil)in confronting or trying to detain these individuals:barf: Just to suppose to call the Sheriff,and perhaps I should ask poor unenlightened individuals if ,they would like some tea and crumpets and would they please wait till the deputies can arrive.Yea that's it!:rolleyes: I will now get off my soapbox;) PS I have no desire to have any confrontation with any predator.But, If I am walking down a public street/sidewalk and your dog come out in a threatening manner,then I will whether alone/with dog/friend,etc., take the front position and defend against harm!That would be your Responsibity(fault) train your dogs and or contain them!I do not think anyone(here) really wants to be put in this position.But neither will we allow ourselves/women/children etc. to be victims of any predator, given other options, and NO "spraying and praying bullets" is never an option!We had to put up an electric fence to keep our escape artists contained:o











a:p

yomama
February 28, 2006, 09:35 AM
This is my first posting, had to write about how our dogs should be treated. WHile i agree that a dog is not a human child, I am saddened to see that there is not more appreciation for life in this post. A dog is a living, breathing animal, one that we as a society have chosen not to hunt or eat. We do not hurt these animals, as they are our best friends. I know that in reality you may get in a lot of trouble if you choose to shoot an attacking dog. The only thing i want to finish with is that if your best friend was in trouble, you would act first, and then suffer the consequences later.

Thank you all for your patience, and I hope my future posts are better put together.

SrtDog
February 28, 2006, 01:48 PM
Like Jimbo from Southpark, "ITS COMING RIGHT AT US." :D

Shoot the dog, use an asp on the owner.

springmom
February 28, 2006, 07:45 PM
High Planes Drifter, you're right (of course) about your original post and the call to animal control. So ...

8 ounces of radiator fluid: 12 cents
Plastic dog dish you will use only once: 99 cents
Never having to deal with the neighbor's aggressive dog again: Priceless

This is no joke. There is nothing remotely funny about poisoning a dog. If a dog is allowed to run loose repeatedly (as opposed to getting out one time, which happens to most dog owners at one time or another) then that is a matter to take up with the owner, through the courts if need be. But to suggest the long, agonizing death of antifreeze poisoning for an animal is hideous. Do you have ANY IDEA just how bad those last hours are for an animal that dies this way???? Do you even CARE?????

I am disgusted beyond words, and amazed that this thread is still open after this crap.

Springmom