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View Full Version : Model 70 Classic, Super Grade III in .338 WM


dbalton
February 15, 2006, 08:15 PM
I am considering the below Winchester Model for elk, black bear and deer. How is it for 300 yards and closer? Is it overkill for white-tails? I know it's a little pricy, but was hoping it would be worth the buck.:cool:

Feedback appreciated.
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Model 70 Classic, Super Grade III
Item Number 535024236
Caliber / Gauge 338 Win. Mag.
Action Type Long Action
Magazine Capacity 3
Barrel Length 26"
Nominal Overall Length 46 3/4"
Nominal Length of Pull 13 3/4"
Nominal Drop at Comb 1/2"
Nominal Drop at Heel 1/2"
Nominal Weight 8 lbs. 4 oz.
Rate of Twist 1 turn in 10"
Metal Finish Blued
U.S. Suggested Retail $1,067

TPAW
February 15, 2006, 08:25 PM
elk, black bear and deer

I think the 338 Win Mag is overkill for all four. A nice 30.06 will do the job very well. The .06 has over the counter bullet grains from 110 grains to 220 grains. Enough to varmint hunt up to larger game. Also, ammo can be found just about anywhere. Remington also puts out a 75 grain accelerator round.
The .06 will kill anything that walks in North America. JMO

joshua
February 16, 2006, 10:35 AM
Well it may just be right for the big elk. If you see a royal bull and a nice size one you will be glad you had a 338 WM with you. Black bear and deer it may just be an overkill. A good .270 or .280 will do the job, heck a 308 will suffice and maybe even a better choice for black bear and deer. A 30-06 will also be fine but a little bit on the light side for 400 yard elk shots. that's if you can shoot at 400 yards that is. josh

bgoldhunter
February 16, 2006, 11:10 AM
Lots of guys shoot 338 for elk and bear, so I wouldn't worry about it. It is a beautiful, reliable gun to boot. I passed up a Supergrade in 338 a few months ago, and have been kicking myself ever since. Don't let this happen to you!

dbalton
February 16, 2006, 06:27 PM
I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'll talk to a few friends in the Lancaster, PA are before I make my final decision. If I make the purchase of the .338 WM, I would probably do bow hunting for white tail or borrow something a little lighter from my brother in law (.243, .270, etc.).

In regards to hitting at 300 yards and out, I did it on a regular basis during my three years on the firing ranges at Ft. Riley, Kansas and Ft. Leonardwood, MO without a scope on my M-16.

I think that I'd rather have the capacity to take an elk down at 400 yards than going home without bagging one.

JMO, I'm sure your right about the .30-06 being able to take down anything that walks in NA. I read articles on it not having the tight shot groups as the .338 WM over 300 yards though. Does going with the 220 grain or the 75 grain accelerator resolve that issue? The magazine capacity accommodates two more rounds with the .30-06 also. Thanks.

TPAW
February 17, 2006, 01:04 AM
I'm sure your right about the .30-06 being able to take down anything that walks in NA. I read articles on it not having the tight shot groups as the .338 WM over 300 yards though. Does going with the 220 grain or the 75 grain accelerator resolve that issue? The magazine capacity accommodates two more rounds with the .30-06 also. Thanks

To be honest, I really can't say. Maybe one of the other guys can chime in and shed some light on the subject regarding accuracy. I never shoot beyond 300 yards anyway. It's too easy not to place the shot for a clean kill. The animal will run off and possibly die a slow death or be ravaged by wild dogs.
That's just me..;)

joshua
February 17, 2006, 04:33 AM
If you haven't shot a 338WM and you are use to shooting your M16 and hitting at 300 yards then you are in for a treat with the 338.

A 30-06 is no more or less accurate than a 338. It all depends a lot on who is behind the rifle and the quality of the rifle to produce top notch match/bench rest grade accuracy. A premium/custom 30-06 rifle firing a 175 grain hollow point boat tail match bullet can reach out to 1000 yards and eat up the X ring, that's if a guy like D Tubbs is behind the rifle.

Let's go back to the 338 WM. The first time I fired a 338 WM with 200 grain spitzers and I thought my shoulder was going to fall off after about 6 rounds firing from the bench. The rifle was about the same weight as my 270Win, but it sure dished out pain unlike my 270. It made my 270 feel like a 223 after I was done with the 338. I fired my 270 more accurately than the 338, but it doesn't prove that my 270 is more accurate. josh

youp
February 17, 2006, 03:44 PM
The 338 Win Mag is alot of gun. It is designed for larger animals than a whitetail. If you use it on deer make sure you have a bullet designed for thin skinned animals. Perhaps a ballistic tip. Premium bullets designed for the elk and great bears may not expand adequately for a humane kill when used for whitetals.

You will need to decide your maximum range with this gun. Some people find a heavy recoiling rifle causes accuracy to suffer. It is not the gun, but the gunner.

45/70 GOVT.
February 17, 2006, 09:16 PM
I used to have a Ruger m77 in 338. Shot it at 300 yard all the time. Bought it for Bear and Elk but all I ever killed with it was a whitetail buck. I used Hornady 225 gr Spire point at about 2800 fps. The first shot was about 80 to 100 yds down hill in about a 20 to 30 mph wind on a running target, hit it in the neck it went down. When I got within 30 ft it got up and ran on it's hind legs. Shot #2 went through both shoulders. Needless to say that meat was history. The bullet through the neck did very little damage to the meat.

If you hunt deer with it stick to a lung shot where the bones are small if your 'er shooting under 100 yds. If you reload you can tailor your loads for the size of the game. The load I was using was the load I used for elk and bear.

Barnes makes a 160 gr bullet that can be 30-06 velocities. If you don't reload look for 200 gr ammo with velocity around 2800fps for deer and try to avoid heavy bones.

If you like the rifle buy it and don't worry about what other people think.

I hunt deer with a 45/70

dbalton
February 23, 2006, 09:40 AM
Barnes makes a 160 gr bullet that can be 30-06 velocities. If you don't reload look for 200 gr ammo with velocity around 2800fps for deer and try to avoid heavy bones.

If you like the rifle buy it and don't worry about what other people think.


I'll check out the Barnes 160 gr for white-tail.

You're right about not worrying about what others think, I like the rifle and it's just my preference. I'll pick it up after I get through the NJ paperwork for purchase from an authorized dealer.

I'll have to pick up some spitzers to appreciate what Josh wrote about feeling the power it dishes out for heavier game.:D

I'll have to look at some decent scopes:
Zeiss Conquest Rifle Scope 3-9X50, Matte, (Mil Dot Reticle)
Zeiss Conquest Rifle Scope 3-9X40, Matte (Mil Dot Reticle)


Any recommendations other than that listed above?

45/70 GOVT.
February 25, 2006, 04:46 PM
An American Made Rifle deserves an American Made Scope.

dbalton
February 25, 2006, 10:29 PM
Any suggestions for American made? My last job was outsourced to Thailand and I am with you on that topic. I wasn't aware that Zeiss wasn't American. Is Leupold American made? They are another brand that is known for their optic quality in my area.

BTW, I'm still going back and forth between the .338 WM and the .30-06. The .30-06 is probably more logical in application and can be used for elk up to 400 yards with a heavier grain; somewhere between 165 - 180 gr.

surfer1
November 7, 2011, 05:19 PM
when considering Elk, Deer rifle(caliber) take a look at ballistics od 280 Rem Ackley Imp. Nosler Reloading Data indicate that it'l do everything a 7 Rem Mag will do in 1 40 gr. and 16o gr. Ror example max 160gr will do about 3000fps. That outa take care of any non-danderous game9American) out there. heck out osler reloading on internet, it's revealing.

Surfer1

P/S 'Course not many rifles chambered for that round and literally loads it except Nosler. Custom loaders do however.

jmr40
November 7, 2011, 05:27 PM
Considering he asked the question 6 years ago I assume he has made up his mind by now.

upstate81
November 7, 2011, 06:54 PM
3006 owners are like led zeppelin fans....its a cult lol and I'm a proud member of both. :D

warbirdlover
November 7, 2011, 07:16 PM
Go to a .300 Win Mag. Less recoil then the .338, and I've used one almost 20 years for whitetail. (BIG Wisconsin whitetail). No meat damage ever if you put it where it's supposed to go (boiler). Makes gutting a little challenging sometimes is all. And it's perfect for elk and most bear.