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View Full Version : I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK!


Glenn E. Meyer
February 9, 2006, 12:19 PM
Flame suit on!

It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation.

The drawing on a cop thread running has that flavor. I've seen it in others and in classes over the years.

It usually goes, what if some badguy stands up in the bank, the Burger Barn, holds my brother at gunpoint but says he is a cop, opens my front door, etc., etc.

There is a wave of reasonable responses that try to shoot only as a last resort but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree.

So there - flame me.

PS - in FOF - one of the risks is that it becomes a shootfest as it is fun for guys. I know an instructor who threw a guy out of class because he just shot all the times.

iuindy2l
February 9, 2006, 12:48 PM
You know, I have been reading a lot of posts lately, and had a very similiar thought. You're a brave man for coming out and saying it.

GlocksRfun
February 9, 2006, 12:59 PM
I agree, and when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

IZinterrogator
February 9, 2006, 01:10 PM
when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....I thought I was going to have to get out the dictionary and explain the difference between intent and reaction. ;)

Harley Quinn
February 9, 2006, 01:22 PM
Is a case where you really don't care if you do or if you don't. It should be as easy to shoot as not to, if the case warranted it.

The desire to shoot someone should only come at the moment it is necessary to, not before or after. If you have to think about it, you probably should not shoot.

It should be in your make up and you should be able to handle it, all the statements are ideal. But it is what you need to stay healthy, mentally and physcially.

Empathy is a state where you can be at in certain times, but to do the right thing is the big answer. If there is a doubt you should not.

It takes more training then, actual ability to shoot. The physcial side of it is easier than the mental side.

Goes to a warrior state of mind. As has been said by many persons, it is easy to train a Warrior, the ability is hard to take away. Kinda scary really. They get a purpose, and it is a very thin line between sane and insane. IMO

HQ

Weeg
February 9, 2006, 01:57 PM
It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation.

And here I thought I was only noticing that...And yes, it's pretty scary

but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree.

Yeah...

So there - flame me.

Not from me, I agree with you...Some folks just seem to be itching to drop the hammer on a "BG"

:rolleyes:

I agree, and when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

No kidding...

"What would you do?...A platoon of crack-smokin' dudes invades your house, and they are armed with baseball bats, flamethrowers, and home pregnancy tests..."


.

kingudaroad
February 9, 2006, 02:05 PM
I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK!

I like the way you baited these folks into opening this thread. I also have been flamed for telling someone that they were wrong to pre-meditate about the possibility of shooting someone and which caliber would be better for the dirty deed.

Certainly there are those within the gun community that live in this world of fantasy, and hopefully it just remains fantasy.

It does absolutly nothing to help the cause of law abiding citizens who only want the right to defend themselves. Very sad indeed.:(

Ledbetter
February 9, 2006, 02:20 PM
This is an excellent point and I'm glad someone brought it up.

Training should include when not to shoot or even draw and the making of these split second decisions requires just as much discipline and training as is required to shoot well, if not more.

Finally, shooting someone should be something you devoutly hope, wish and pray you never have to do, for a bunch of reasons, some of them moral, even though you carry every day.

Tdog201
February 9, 2006, 02:31 PM
You should come and stay with me. They have had several break in's in the area I live in. I carry a walther P99QA .40s&w and they will get it from me if I catch them. The police can't catch anyone in my town unless they fall over them.

Derius_T
February 9, 2006, 03:18 PM
The way I look at it is if anyone has a DESIRE to shoot someone, they have the wrong mindset to begin with and have no need for a firearm.....

I carry a weapon to defend myself as a last resort, if all other options have failed. I hope however long I carry this weapon that I NEVER actually HAVE to shoot anyone. But I also must be prepaired physically and mentally to do so if left with no other option.

If you REALLY, REALLY, are gung-ho to shoot something, go to the range....

svtruth
February 9, 2006, 03:26 PM
I agree with you. I do not have a CCW, nor do I have a ready HD weapon. But I know that if shoothing a threat, person, dog, wild beast that is endangering me or mine (people) is the only remaining option, Bang.
Related to this, what trianing do police get about deciding when to shoot? Certainly the recent death of officer Hernandez in NYC (and numerous other situations in which the shooting officer was not in danger) makes one think that it consists of shoot first, ask questions later.

dtarbox
February 9, 2006, 03:56 PM
Out in public I would only use deadly force as a last resort.
D

urbanassault
February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM
......yes it is okay.......

Harley Quinn
February 9, 2006, 04:10 PM
Are pure bluff. LOL
No matter how many time's you say it, does not make it the truth.:barf:

HQ

NBT
February 9, 2006, 04:22 PM
Yes totally with you.
It's a waste having all these guns and never ever getting to shoot 1 bad guy. We have to spend the rest of our life shooting paper targets and that gets very old very fast. :eek:

Guys wanna be heros and need a reason to.

To the BGs:
Break into my house at night with a machete when I have my loaded Sig. I won't regret what happens next. :p

kingudaroad
February 9, 2006, 04:56 PM
they will get it from me if I catch them

you are leaving in a body bag

. I won't regret what happens next.

I was waiting for some of these guys to show up.

urbanassault
February 9, 2006, 04:58 PM
Its the American way....

Weeg
February 9, 2006, 05:12 PM
Certainly there are those within the gun community that live in this world of fantasy, and hopefully it just remains fantasy.


Well said, and hit the (pardon the pun) "bullseye"


.

Eghad
February 9, 2006, 05:29 PM
I think shooting anybody should be the last resort. If you think about it having the means to take a life in that holster in your side is one heavy responsibility and should not be taken lightly.

stephen426
February 9, 2006, 05:48 PM
While I agree with Glenn's point, I think that a person's hesitance to take a life must be carefully balanced with the ability to make that life altering decision should the need arise. Failure to be in the proper mindset (I am going to protect myself and my family) leads to hesitation. Hesitation may allow the bad guy to grab the gun and use it against you (without any hesitation) or shoot you first. I'm sure many of you saw that video where the police officer kept warning the bad guy to put down the weapon and ended up dying because of his hesitation. I'm not advocating that we play Rambo where we shoot first and ask questions later. I just believe that you have to make up your mind that you will use deadly force when forced to before carrying a weapon.

Topthis
February 9, 2006, 05:58 PM
Funny, but I had replied to a "Scenario" post a while past regarding this same subject. My point was that I do not desire to shoot anybody and that most of the "Scenarios" seemed to be aimed at giving people only two choices...run or kill the BG, it really disturbed me! Then someone posted a response that pretty much said that I was crazy and that most people who own guns really and truley wish that they could shoot someone...CRAZY!!! After that, I took a long vacation from TFL.

Model520Fan
February 9, 2006, 06:04 PM
Thanks, Glenn.

springmom
February 9, 2006, 06:45 PM
I'll bring the aloe vera and ice if you get a flame, but you are absolutely correct. Some people are looking for an excuse to shoot a person, and that is scary.

Springmom

RJay
February 9, 2006, 07:08 PM
You are so very right, there are too many posters living in Never-Never Land. Most times I just laught and pass on.

American4guns
February 9, 2006, 07:10 PM
I dont want a reason to shoot someone,especially in my home,I have to clean up the friggen mess.I dont ask for advice on the best way to kill a bad guy.I think if you have to ask questions like that,you should'nt be carrying guns.I took training specifically for SD,i also have the mindset to shoot if i have to.I only hope that i never have to take another life.Good topic.Nice bait job too lol:D

garand_shooter
February 9, 2006, 07:17 PM
It's easy to play hero from your keyboard. Nobody knows how they will respond after having to take a life. There have been LEOs who have had to quit the force or take a desk job after a justified shooting, because they couldn't come to terms with it. And they have training and post situational support.

People who want to fantasize about being a hero, should do so on a XBox.

Thanks, Glenn for putting into a thread what a lot of us have felt. I usually don't get past the initial post in those type threads.

Hook686
February 9, 2006, 07:19 PM
Today, 11:19 AM #1
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member


Join Date: 11-17-2000
Posts: 2,117 I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flame suit on!

It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation.

The drawing on a cop thread running has that flavor. I've seen it in others and in classes over the years.

It usually goes, what if some badguy stands up in the bank, the Burger Barn, holds my brother at gunpoint but says he is a cop, opens my front door, etc., etc.

There is a wave of reasonable responses that try to shoot only as a last resort but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree.

So there - flame me.

PS - in FOF - one of the risks is that it becomes a shootfest as it is fun for guys. I know an instructor who threw a guy out of class because he just shot all the times


Did you even stop to wonder if maybe somebody now wants to shoot you for bringing your view up ? :eek:

Dwight55
February 9, 2006, 07:30 PM
This thread brings up the point that has been kicked around a bunch, . . . but never enough: training and practice can make the correct difference, . . . no training and no practice will in all likelyhood make the wrong difference.

I enjoy the different scenarios mainly because in the military, . . . I always enjoyed the war games, . . . realizing of course it was not serious, . . . but if it led to my doing it better later, . . . thus surviving, . . . it was good. These scenarios sometimes make one want to barf, . . . but others make one think.

My best tip I think I learned was probably a year ago or so, . . . someone mentioned that if you moved away from a bg's strong side, . . . in the direction of his strong side, . . . it made it more difficult for him to track you. I hope I never use that tidbit of info, . . . but I tried it, . . . and for me it is true. Before trying it, . . . I would probably have moved the other way (on a right handed person) because it allows me to keep a better sight picture. Now I have a slim, slim edge that I practice, . . . hopefully never needed.

May God bless,
Dwight

Recon7
February 9, 2006, 07:52 PM
Yeah, I feel like that sometimes. Then again sometimes when somebody says/does something stupid I wanna punch him in the face, that dosen't mean I will!

auburn4
February 9, 2006, 08:04 PM
Mr. Meyer What a way to word a post. Don't you know that the ANTI'S search these post like hawks. Give them some more ammo!!!!!!!! GEEEEEEE What you allege to is correct BUT,Let us not make headlines.:o

kesserman
February 9, 2006, 08:07 PM
Glenn,

Nicely said.

CraigJS
February 9, 2006, 08:56 PM
Auburn4,
Let them come in... let them come in and see that not ALL of use are wild eyed fanatics to be feared. But just possibly are normal people that would prefer to defend themselves if the need ever arises! Sometimes you need different bait to catch more fish...
Take care brother..

Dead-Nuts-Zero
February 9, 2006, 09:08 PM
Great Post....No Flaming from here.

I know some guys (personally) who walk 4" taller when they strap on their gun. And most of them grow a bigger mouth to go with it. My gun is bigger than your gun!!! I guess maybe we were all young and green at some point. I had my days when I first started working but after awhile, I think I forgot I was wearing a gun most of the time. I found I would rather tear someone’s eyes out that to draw on them. But yes there are times when that isn't sensible., but once you take that shot, you will pay for it one way or another for the rest of your life, even when you did the right thing they rape you in the courts. Now I am retired, and when I CCW, even my wife doesn’t know when I am packing. But I do love to read some of the shootem ups and I am sure I have put in my 2 cents more than a few times. Watching TV gets old after awhile so I stop in here for my daily education and entertainment. It reminds me of the conversations we often had after work, suckin a beer two with the boys.
Overall, I think we have a pretty damn good bunch hangin out in here. Talk is cheep so I usually don't take it too serious.

Thanks Glenn!

SrtDog
February 9, 2006, 09:36 PM
The shoot first, ask questions later people are the ones who give all those tree hugging, anti gun nut jobs all their ammunition for the more restrictive gun laws.

Keep on shootin first, askin questions later. Pave the way for no guns at all.

Hell, maybe we can have showdowns on the street like the old days.

oldguy52
February 9, 2006, 10:27 PM
Way to go Glenn! Good for you, a touch of reality is nice for a change! I hate to say it, but the mentality that is sometimes voiced here can be downright scary. It is not the way to influence lawmakers, or others to support or want to help change the CCW laws in their states.

bruchi
February 9, 2006, 11:38 PM
Yes there are many out there that fantasize about " what" they would do in a dangerous situarion, flinch or be the hero and to a point I guess this is normal, then you have the ones that actually want to get the opportunity to shoot someone.

I enjoy the scenarios because I have toyed and continue to do so with the idea of being a screenwriter and obviously I have a enhanced need for fantasy. I am aware of this and try to separate it from reality. Face it, I am a big teddy bear but then bears are deadly when cornered or hungry. (kidding ok!)

I worked at this store on a minimall where one of the guys, married to the owner's daughter carried a magnum 357, 24/7. This was a long time ago when owning a gun was very far from my plans. I come back from lunch one day, he is very depressed and I ask him what's up, he tells me that a few stores down a delivery guy was held up, he pulled his gun and killed the BG, he was almost crying because the opportunity to shoot a BG had been so close and he had missed it.

That is one guy I want to stay the hell away from. Yes there are out there.

Weeg
February 10, 2006, 06:37 AM
It's easy to play hero from your keyboard.

Yes, I've noticed that many do...

Is this guy a TFL poster?:D :D

http://www.thebluething.com/img/internet-soldier.jpg

Axel357
February 10, 2006, 07:51 AM
Hahahahaaa

Maybe it's because I've been up all night, but that picture made me laugh for a good two minutes solid....Good stuff. So true, too.

Weeg
February 10, 2006, 08:22 AM
Heh heh heh...


.

bazilla
February 10, 2006, 08:47 AM
...to all who have supported what Glenn posted. The last person to be carrying a weapon is someone who is perpetually angry, and just itching for a fight.

But they are surely in the minority of those who are concerned about personal defense and defense of loved ones. When I took a CCL class recently, everybody in it seemed like just "ordinary folks." Since I've started going to an indoor range, I'm always a bit surprised at the variety, and ordinariness, of the people I encounter there. Just ordinary folks, from all walks of life.

I wish there was some way to communicate to the anti-gun culture that most people who are interested in firearms for SD/HD are just ordinary folks, and not the Ramboized-Dirty Harry caricatures they often imagine.

Of course, the kind of postings Glenn is concerned about shows that there are probably a few Ramboized-Dirty Harry folks out there. I'm glad they don't seem to be much thought of here.

Leif
February 10, 2006, 08:48 AM
In Triumph the Comic Insult Dog voice ...

"And is this the button to call your mother to pick you up?"

That was really funny. :D

And yes, some people certainly seem to come across as being a little itchy for action. Good post.

Talon66
February 12, 2006, 08:34 PM
Good post. There was an article from Evan Marshall years ago about armed intervention. I wish I could find it and post it here. The desire to shoot someone is something that concerns me. Like Peter Parker said, "With power comes a great responsibility".

superfast61821
February 12, 2006, 08:52 PM
I have greatly enjoyed reading the responses of responsible firearm owners and CCW holders. I carry as a uniformed armed security officer and even though the chance of having to take a life or even just drop the hammer on somebody isn't something I anticipate or seek to create a reson that would justify such actions.
I read in someone's quote one time that....
"you can have an additude or a gun but you can't have both"
I totally agree with that.
That's all.

kiov
February 13, 2006, 05:10 PM
hi,
I carry when I travel on the highway, or when I'm going to be in the city at night.

I don't want to kill anything most days, not even bugs unless they're bitting me.

Some days I think about the terrible people in the world and wish I was on one of the Hunter/Killer police teams they set up here in Colorado after Columbine. You know, to actually do something tangible to clean up the world.

Instead I am a teacher at an inner city school, and have to console myself that I'm doing as much good as I can in an often sick society. Still, I can relate to people who want to take direct action to clean up the mess. That's real different from wanting to hurt someone for fun.

I think it was a letter in American Hangunner were a soldier mentioned that in the army there are about 1/4 of the people doing it for the country, about 1/4 to get away from whatever they had or didn't have at home, about 1/4 who take it as a job, and about 1/4 who want to kill, enjoy killing, and will do as much as possible.

I won't quibble with the numbers, but we have to accept that there are a certain number of folks in our society who are happy to be knee deep in blood. They will gravitate towards weapons and brute force occuptions or to violent crime. So, we get more than our share here, as do our friends in law and military circles, as do our fellow citizens in prison.

That doesn't change the fact that most of us are ordinary citizens who just like guns, want to defend our homes, and would never start trouble.

kiov

PythonGuy
February 13, 2006, 08:30 PM
Beautifully put, kiov.
Wish more felt that way, next thing you know they''l be hunting pre-teens!! Oh, but their bad kids.......,
Hmm, nevermind I think they do that already. Makes it hard to tell who is the sick society, huh?? :(

Scorch
February 13, 2006, 08:48 PM
Pythonman, you really know how to start one, don't you. For what it's worth, I'll join in and share my sometimes unpopular opinion.

Most of the people who run around acting like and saying they want to kill someone have no idea what they are saying. Believe me, put them in combat and a lot of those badasses just want to get home with no holes in them. It all sounds really macho when you say you want to kill someone, but in real life, you'll want to **** your pants or crawl home when you see a determined man on the other end of a gun who wants to stay alive just as bad as someone who may want to kill him. And believe me, he's usually just as scared as you are. You start to understand why the "right to carry" states saw such a dramatic reduction in violent crimes. Not that there aren't people who want to intimidate people into immobility then snuff them. It's just no fun when they shoot back.

Sailorcurt
February 14, 2006, 09:26 AM
Related to this, what trianing do police get about deciding when to shoot? Certainly the recent death of officer Hernandez in NYC (and numerous other situations in which the shooting officer was not in danger) makes one think that it consists of shoot first, ask questions later.

You'll note that most of these incidents occur in "big brother" states or cities that don't trust their subjects to provide for their own defense.

The cops in those areas, whether explicitly or implicitly, have been conditioned to believe that a civilian with a gun is automatically a bad guy.

Were I a cop in NY or Chicago or DC, I would think LONG AND HARD about pulling a firearm while off duty. That action can be hazardous to your health in totalitarian dictatorships.

Don P
February 18, 2006, 10:11 PM
Well put by most. They definately DO NOT NEED a ccwp. As I stated in other threads they can join the fighting forces of the U.S.A. and let them go to the middle east and shoot all they want. Get a life:rolleyes:

TBT
February 18, 2006, 10:53 PM
Is this thread downing just the silly scenarios or all scenarios? I like the scenarios and I think they are a great help. When you make the decision to carry it’s a huge decision. Talking about instances where you might be called upon to act IMHO is a great resource. Sharing ideas here could save a life someday.

cuate
February 18, 2006, 11:46 PM
Gone are the days when a person had to use deadly force and the Leos made the decision on the spot that no arrest was called for. Most places now you will be arrested, post bond, hire a lawyer and meet the Grand Jury in person. in many cases an overzealous prosecuter will go all out to get a conviction, another feather in his cap. If the shooting is out in public and the victim is of certain ethnic groups you will also likely be sued and he or his survivors will come up with scores of witnesses who will lie and say they saw the whole thing and that you are just a biased murderer.

With all that said, I had not rather be forced to kill another person, but I damn sure will if that is what it takes to perserve life, liberty, and property under certain conditions described in our statutes. I do pray that will never be necessary.

prime8
February 19, 2006, 06:16 AM
The problem is, most of the angry itchy types already have guns, cuz theyre bangers or already cops. very thin line between good and bad, just a matter of oppinion! Nice vader gettup.. Raider fan or just nutz??:D

PythonGuy
February 19, 2006, 10:37 AM
Raider fan or just nutz??
Is there a difference??

Jack O'Conner
February 19, 2006, 04:05 PM
Glenn:

When you kill a man you take away everything he has and everything he will ever have. Sure you actually want this scene to occur?

There are better ways to release aggression that seeking to shoot bad guys. I suggest an enthusiastic woman (over 18) !

Jack

joab
February 19, 2006, 04:37 PM
I have noticed these responses
I have always believed that these guys along with the ones that try to think up reasons to inform the boss or landlord that they own or carry are simply still impressed with themselves for having guns.
When they have actually been around guns long enough for them to become just tools they calm down.

But those guy's are effectively counter balanced by the ones that believe you need to be cut twice and shot once before you even begin to draw.

riverrat66
February 19, 2006, 05:17 PM
Raider fan or just nutz??
Maybe he's from Florida!:D
You know they do have that new "Shoot first, Ask questions later law" (I'm only kidding!)


It's a waste having all these guns and never ever getting to shoot 1 bad guy. We have to spend the rest of our life shooting paper targets and that gets very old very fast.
So why don't you grow some balls do exactly what 22-Mag sez:
join the fighting forces of the U.S.A. and go to the middle east and shoot all you want. Get a life.
And that I'm not kidding about!

This thread is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen posted on TFL.

Glenn E. Meyer
February 19, 2006, 06:06 PM
Just to remind folks, my post was to put a damper on scenarios that folks posted in which the main goal was to pose a situation where they would feel happy to righteously shoot someone.

Go back and read my original, my dear students of the art. :D

marano
February 21, 2006, 09:53 PM
shooting paper is much more preferable to people. I have carried two guns daily for the last fifteen years and have come quite,quite close to having to use one of them a couple of times at work. I have always been thankful that it did not come to that as I NEVER want to kill another human being. I made it threw 20 years of military service without having to participate in a war and I got out recently so that I would not have to unnecessarily. Killing is wrong, survival is not, but I don't think that will make you feel any better about it, unless your some kind of sociopath.

VUPDblue
February 21, 2006, 11:08 PM
All I can say is that if, and I do mean IF I am suddenly attacked by a battalion of B-27 silhouettes, then I will be prepared and willing to defend myself with the biggest, baddest weapon available (as long as they come within 21 feet).:D

Redworm
February 28, 2006, 12:04 PM
Just to remind folks, my post was to put a damper on scenarios that folks posted in which the main goal was to pose a situation where they would feel happy to righteously shoot someone.

Go back and read my original, my dear students of the art.

All these "hypothetical situation" threads that keep popping up seem a bit disturbing. It does seem like there are a few here who are looking for any excuse to pull out their noisemaker and act like Bruce Willis. Kinda takes away from the responsible mentality of using a gun as the last line of defense.

It worries me that so many people want to use their guns for their intended purpose.

invention_45
February 28, 2006, 01:22 PM
I haven't noticed anybody (that doesn't mean nobody else is doing it) other than Doug .38 starting this sort of thread.

I read his scenarios as meaning only what the words on the screen are. I don't try to interpret what he's thinking. I haven't yet gotten the impression that he's out to shoot somebody, so I post responses when I think I have something to say.

I do notice that some posts that RESPOND to him seem like they're coming from people looking for an excuse.

When I respond, I say what I think I'd do. Who knows what I would ACTUALLY do. There are too many variables to predict that.

Since responding to the scenarios makes me think about them, I think they're useful. I try to respond using what I know about how various things work. It's a good mental exercise that's better done now than during an incident. Best of all, since I don't want to appear to be an idiot, I will often check the applicable statutes or other basis for my responses before I respond and learn something new in the process.

I tend to give responses that give attention to the law's requirements. I also tend to point out that sometimes the gun isn't the best solution to the scenario, and I've seen others do the same. Maybe Doug and others posing these scenarios just need to see what the range of possible responses is to help them do the right thing. I got no problem with that. Maybe they just want the entertainment of seeing the responses that come back. I got no problem with that, either.

Since we're on the general subject, there's a really good website (IMHO) that anybody who's truly interested in self-defense should look at.

www.nononseseselfdefense.com

The owner of that site does not discuss firearms at all. He talks at length about the guy who's going to be on the other end of your gun the day you have to use it, and how that guy thinks. A theme that permeates his site is that training in the martial arts can get you in more trouble than they get you out of. I have no opinion on that, but if you can mentally filter that out the site has really good information, and lots of it.

Capt Charlie
February 28, 2006, 01:22 PM
All these "hypothetical situation" threads that keep popping up seem a bit disturbing. It does seem like there are a few here who are looking for any excuse to pull out their noisemaker and act like Bruce Willis. Kinda takes away from the responsible mentality of using a gun as the last line of defense.

It worries me that so many people want to use their guns for their intended purpose.
It worries me as well, Redworm. Folks, see my sig line ;) .

22-rimfire
March 1, 2006, 12:46 PM
The decision to use force is personal. You have to live with the consequences. I have no idea how I will react in a given situation until it happens. I sometimes think these scenario threads are folks that are itching for a reason to use force or they are trying to talk themselves into the possibility of using force. My first reaction is to get the h*ll out of Dodge and avoid a fight and I am not "into" thinking up scenarios where I would be protecting anyone other than myself or my family.

Redworm
March 2, 2006, 08:55 AM
The decision to use force is personal. You have to live with the consequences. I agree that it's a personal choice but it isn't a private choice. The decision to use force affects others far more than the shooter simply having to live with the consequences. The decision to use force can end the life of a guy having a heart attack trying to get help by stumbling toward the nearest person. The decision to use force can end the life of a lost foreigner who doesn't speak english and just wants to get back to his hotel. The decision to use force could end the life of a guy driving slowly through a parking lot simply because he's looking for the friend he was asked to pick up after the movie.

It's a personal choice but that choice can affect the lives of others far more than the shooter himself.

threegun
March 2, 2006, 12:09 PM
Invention45, I agree with you. Some people need help, ask for help, and we should give them help. Some do as Glenn suggests for sure but the ones who are asking for "what to do" in a spacific scenario, we should help if we can. The sickos shouldn't prevent us from giving advice to others. Just the same the grand fathers of gun knowledge (ie Glenn) should understand that at one time they had similar questions. Helping a fellow gun carrier could be self serving one day.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 3, 2006, 03:53 PM
That's why I give excellent advice to folks to get appropriate training in the use of lethal force and point out that ninja fantasy are quite transparent on forums like this.

threegun
March 3, 2006, 04:17 PM
Glenn, A+. In the case of Doug38 though he sounds like he is just unsure about how to handle a situation once he spots the danger. Those in between cases that happen....example A man is cutting across a parking lot on an intercept path with you. You change directions and so does he. You were the last to leave the building so retreat is not advantagous. What do you do? This guy has no visible weapon and has made no verbal threats. Pulling your weapon on a man who's only action was to walk towards you is illegal in most places not to mention the old gun school rule of not pulling your gun until you are justified in using it. This gray area is scary for some. Do you wait until the threat gets within striking distance?

I know what to do but some don't. I just hope you understand just how difficult this is for some. As for the normal I wanna be justified morons we agree totally. The law will get those guys.

posted by doug But what if I did spot something suspicious? It's too easy to say "Just pull your gun." But at what point? What exactly are you looking for?

Glenn E. Meyer
March 4, 2006, 12:40 PM
The classic responses:

1. Verbally challenge the person to stop approaching you. Techniques are taught as to appropriate verbiage that signals your awareness and gives off the view that you are not a victim.

2. Just run (if able).

3. Deploy a nonlethal in your hand like OC and be ready to use it - one might mention it. Quite a different threat than a gun. At the same time, verbalize your need for police. Or one might pull out the cell phone and announce that you are calling the police

4. Claim you are a zombie and will eat his brains

5. Pull out a mouse gun of known deterrent value and wave it wildy.

(Note - some of these choices are deliberately designed for arcane reasons - :D 0 The wise reader will know why.

Doug's original scenario was seeing something hinky when leaving the movie. I have a suggetion - you probably have a clear path to return to the theater. The staff is still there. That's a better idea than drawing a gun and continuing towards a threat.

Now isn't that easy.

threegun
March 5, 2006, 06:57 PM
Glenn, I must say you are much more civil here. Great answers 1-3.

Doug's original scenario was seeing something hinky when leaving the movie. I have a suggetion - you probably have a clear path to return to the theater. The staff is still there. That's a better idea than drawing a gun and continuing towards a threat.


Is it possible that we agree 100 percent? Anyway good to see your good side for a change.

Bigbadaboom
March 9, 2006, 10:06 AM
The desire to kill has a place on a battle field during war. It has no place while going about our daily, Civilian lives.

I hear the "I wish that S.O.B. would try car-jacking ME" or whatever other scenario is in the news at the time and I ask "You would really want to have someone attempt to commit a crime against you so you can show them how tough you are?" IMHO this puts these people right there with the scum doing the criminal acts.

Prepare for the worse and Pray for the best. Don't pray for the worse so you can prove something, because nobody really gives a crap how tough you are except "YOU".

I do say this; Be careful saving deadly force as a "last resort". If you use it as a last resort and the B.G. uses it as a first resort then you could end up in horizontal meditation on the subject.

Trip20
March 9, 2006, 11:05 AM
Glenn - for balance (and for a more *helpful read), you should start a thread with title and tone to match the philosophy:

"I don't want to shoot anyone!!! How to avoid deadly encounters."

Glenn E. Meyer
March 9, 2006, 03:21 PM
I prefer the dramatic. Also, that wasn't the thrust of my argument. It was about those who seem to want to shoot. It wasn't about the well known need to try to avoid shooting if possible.

But thanks for the critique. I suppose I won't post my:

I wanna shoot a zombie

thread

:D