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threefivesevenmag
February 7, 2006, 08:44 PM
We read a lot about what caliber is best, what gun platform, what trigger, study results of gunfights, how to care for guns, etc etc...

I have read similiar threads about the question I am going to ask, but it's always good to read new posts or new information.

How many of you have actually drawn your firearm in defense and not had to fire shots? What caused you to draw and what were the results? Any lessons learned?

Thanks in advance.

TexasSIGMan
February 7, 2006, 08:50 PM
Once. At a gas station at 2am on the way to Dallas from Austin.

I learned to fill up your car in the daylight......

A guy came from behind the building at a closed gas station with 24 hour pumps. I was the only person around, and he started right for me.

I told him to stop, he kept coming. I told him I had a gun, he kept coming.
I drew from my shoulder holster, he kept coming a step or 2 then stopped, looked at me for a long time, then turned around and walked away casually. I guess he was trying to decide if I would really shoot him or not.

I called the local PD but they weren't interested.

threefivesevenmag
February 7, 2006, 08:53 PM
TexasSIGman,

That must have been an intense situation.

How far away was he from you before he decided to stop and turn around?

mete
February 7, 2006, 09:46 PM
Get really good training so you learn the lessons before not after !!! The closest I ever came - I had my hand on the gun when a road rage idiot changed his mind .He didn't see the gun.

TexasSIGMan
February 7, 2006, 10:26 PM
How far away was he from you before he decided to stop and turn around?

The guy was a good distance away, 30 feet maybe more, but the layout of the place left no doubt that he was heading for me and only me. There was nothing else in my direction.

At that time I had not read of the Tueller Drill but it sort of made sense intuitively I guess that you don't want someone to get that close when there's no reason for it.

With no response, but knowing for sure that he heard me, I was very much on edge.

In Texas we have this nice one in the Penal Code....

For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or
serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension
that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.

So on it's own the production of a weapon is not deadly force, just force.
Technically I don't think I was justified in using force at all,
it's hard to say. The code for that is

a person is justified in using force against
another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is
immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful force.

My thinking was that I believed force was immediately necessary to protect myself
from the other's ATTEMPTED use of unlawful force. It's iffy, but given the situation
again I would react the same way. I did not raise the weapon, but I think he clearly
saw what I was doing. I knew I had reacted correctly when the guy didn't freak out.
He studied the situation for a moment trying to decide what to do. If it had been some
panhandler or hitchiker I'd have expected some kind of reaction. This guy just studied me
for a few seconds and decided to break it off. I was in the car as soon as he went around
the building and out of there.

As I said, the local cops were not even interested. The dispatcher asked if I was OK,
and that was it. She didn't even ask my name or phone number.

High Planes Drifter
February 8, 2006, 09:01 AM
Once without firing. The details leading up to this go back 2 years so I'll skip to what happened. I was in a heated arguement with this man; when he decided to pick up a pipe and then proceeded towards me. I pulled my gun (Sig220) and aimed it at him. I told him to stop or I would fire. He did. I backed inside my shop keeping the gun aimed at him, locked the door, and called the police. They came out, but he had hid the pipe by the time they arrived. He told the police that we were just arguing and I was the first/only one to pull a weapon. I told them my side also, so off to jail we both went. The whole situation is squashed now. The DA reviewed the history between myself and the other man and saw that the police had been called by me on him more than once in the past. No charges were accepted.

Its a tricky situation. You try to be a good person by not taking someones life, even when you have every right to legally. I know that if I didnt have my gun on me that afternoon I would be dead right now.

Capt Charlie
February 8, 2006, 01:57 PM
On duty, same as Erick.

Off duty? Not sure, but around 4 or 5 times over the last 24 yrs. The one that sticks in my mind was in the mid-80's. I got off work at midnight and took the dog for a walk.

We were walking by an elementary school when I heard screaming, and a 12 yr. old girl with torn clothes came running towards me from the school parking lot yelling "he tried to hurt (rape) me!" At the same time, a man in a vehicle came out from behind the school and tried to exit the parking lot. I pushed the girl behind me and ordered the guy out of the car and on the ground at gunpoint. Someone else apparently called 911, and my guys arrived on scene and took over from there.

The bad part? The guy was the girl's uncle, and this wasn't the first time :mad: . The family wouldn't cooperate and the prosecutor wouldn't take the case based only on a 12 yr. old's word. :mad: :mad:

bruchi
February 8, 2006, 02:04 PM
I looked on the FAQ and forum guides etc and cannot find how to start a topic much less how to use quotes, sory about asking here but can;t figure this stuff out orr where else to ask.

Jehzsa
February 8, 2006, 03:10 PM
Hello bruchi,
After you log in, look for the "new thread" icon and click on it. It's below the User CP link. Right by "FAQ".

To test how to do things, use the "Software Test Area".

Now back to the regularly scheduled posting.

DParker
February 21, 2006, 06:34 PM
First time poster here. Am getting my first CCW permit (I live in one of the few "easy" counties in CA) and have been lurking and learning a great deal. This thread reminds me of the only time I have ever needed to draw...and it certainly saved us from tragedy.

Was in the mid-eighties and my first wife and I had towed our sailboat down to Long Beach and were going to Catalina Island for a week. Had launched the boat and placed the truck/trailer in storage. Had a guest slip for the night at Long Beach municipal marina and were preparing for an early departure the next day.

We had noticed a Lucky Supermarket a couple of blocks from the marina and we walked over for some last minute groceries at about dusk. In retrospect, we were dressed as typical "boat types" and were clearly on vacation. We had been so focused on "boat stuff" that we had not really noticed how bad an area this was. I was carrying a little AMT .380 in my back waistband, as was my habit when traveling. It was covered by my windbreaker. I had no permit, but was young and cocky.

Came out of the market a bit after dark and started back to the boat. Quickly became aware of just how bad the area was. As we approached a bus stop just before a long dark bridge (going nowhere but to the marina) I noticed 5 young gang types lounging around watching us. When we were about 50 feet from them, two of the guys got up (without saying a word) and started over the bridge in front of us. We walked by the others and I just remembered trying not to make eye contact...I didn't want any trouble. We had only walked about 50 feet past them and the other 3 got up and started following us. My wife was jabbering on about something and seemed totally oblivious. Of course we were both carrying bags of groceries in both of our hands.

The bridge was deserted and mostly dark. I remember a street light at the top. The two guys ahead of us stopped and were leaning on the railing just on the downhill side. By this time I was really worried. I remember trying to remember how many rounds I had, but quickly realized a gunbattle would be a very poor option, and at the very least would ruin our long planned vacation.

I handed my wife the bags I was carrying and slowly drew the .380. I decided the best thing to do would be to discourage an attack by making sure they saw my gun. I held it up above my shoulder and slowly chambered a round. I made sure the bad guys could see what I was doing. I then placed the gun in my windbreaker pocket, pointed and ready to use.

The guys following us immediately spun on their heels and turned back and must have signaled the guys in front because they kept their hands and arms spread out on the railing and just eyeballed me as we walked by. I actually turned and walked backward as we passed them. They then headed back down the hill to join their buddies. We got back to the boat shaken and relieved...but very glad that I had that little AMT.

No doubt in my mind that we dodged a serious problem that night. I still have that little .380 and it will forever have a spot in my heart. I know that I have read of many problems with them, but mine feeds and fires flawlessly. However, my principal ccw is now a Kahr pm9.

Sorry for being so longwinded...but this thread really stirred up some memories.

Dan M.
February 21, 2006, 06:44 PM
Mr. Parker, I do a lot of fishing in the Long Beach area and I think I know exactly the bridge you are talking about. Your post is a good example of being tactically aware. Many of us in CA would advise against carrying without a CCW because of the strict laws here, but in your case it most likely prevented robbery at the very least. Congrats on getting a CA CCW. Do you mind of I ask what county?

DParker
February 21, 2006, 07:28 PM
Dan,

I live in Madera county...just north of Fresno.

Much easier here than in Fresno county. You in Orange County? I have read that it's easier there too.

Dan M.
February 21, 2006, 07:37 PM
Yup, I'm in Orange County. I am probably going to apply within the next month. Don't tell my wife.

BerettaCougar
February 21, 2006, 07:49 PM
My brother had to draw a few years back, before I had my ccw.

I was with him late night after fishing off a broken bridge in Tampa.
We pulled into a gas station, it was late, we were in the slums of Tampa, getting gas. Some wacked out shirtless hobo asked my brother for some money, my brother declined and the hobo kept asking and walking closer, my brother told him NO a few times, and to back off a little... the hobo must of been 5 feet away from him, and I was standing on the other side of the car.

Well the hobo started screaming out Fbombs and Sbombs, and when he raised his hands my brother drew on him and basically had the barrel a few inches away from the guys face, I remember ducking down behind the car, I seriously thought my brother was going to shoot him, but instead my brother kicked him and told him to get the F away, my brother finished filling up the tank and we drove off... we had to pull over a mile or two up the road, my brothers hands were shaking. and he was saying "i cant believe i just did that, i almost killed him" over and over...almost like a panic attack...good learning experience.

superman
February 21, 2006, 08:47 PM
This is a comment to Texas. If you lived where I do, you could have been arrested for pointing a firearm. Thats sad, but true. Technicaly you were never in danger, by standing your ground put you in danger. Dont ger me wrong I would have done the same thing and never thought twice about it. Its nice for you to live in a state that permits "stand your ground". Mine does not. What you should have done is get into your vehicle and lock the door and call911. HA HA that will get you killed in a second.

to the original post, check your local laws see if you have a stand your ground. If not a gun is the last resort. How sad this country is.

TexasSIGMan
February 21, 2006, 08:56 PM
What you should have done is get into your vehicle and lock the door and call911. HA HA that will get you killed in a second.


Well, I thought about it, but I was in a convertible with the top down :D

So, I decided to become a gun weilding maniac instead. Worked out.....

ShotGun_Newbie
February 26, 2006, 08:29 PM
Superman, where do you live? I wonder If my state has the same laws... cuz If someone effs with me I prolly won't hesitate to put a cap in their butt. lol

andyrnokc
February 26, 2006, 09:08 PM
I posted this on another thread but will put it here too. I have read what has happened to you guys and don't feel alone now. This incident was 5 years ago, it was before I had my CCW and was not very educated or anywhere near as situationally aware as I am now. Education and attention are invaluable.

A common thread I am reading here is we were in a situation we never should have allowed ourselves to be in because we know better; but did it anyway. At least we were prepared and can tell others about it and just how fast it can happen if you let your guard down.

I was traveling from OKC to CO and had to pee while driving through Wakeenie KS about 0200.I pulled into a rest stop, no cars at all on the highway, no cars at the stop, one big rig asleep and idling. I put my Ultra CDP in my IWB and ran <I really ran> to the can. When I came out there was a Bronco parked inches from my trucks door. Four guys were exiting the driver’s side of that Bronco. The 4 of them gathered in front of their truck, looked at me, and started walking towards me never taking their eyes off me. Now I’m no idiot… there was no way to get back to my driver’s door and 4 guys never pee together. Where did these guys come from? I had maybe 20 yards as they were walking towards me, slowly, not a word, eyes on me. I put my hand behind my back inside my coat. They stopped, looked at each other, then kept walking towards me together, eyes on me. You know how sometimes you can almost feel electricity in the air… those hairs stand up on your neck… I have that feeling, I get chills just writing this. I pulled out my shinny .45 and pointed it at the ground. 15 yards, no one is moving and no one has blinked. The first guy looks at his buddies then at me, takes a step towards me and I pointed it at his chest. Still no one blinks. They all back up together, not a word. They got in their little blue Bronco <hasty now> on the driver’s side, back up, and peel their tires out of the rest area. I holster my gun and walk shakily though triumphantly back to my truck.

Now, I know I broke some rules… You can’t carry concealed in KS and I don’t give a damn; I carried to the can anyway.
You should never pull your weapon unless you’re going to use it; I did it anyway because I felt threatened.
I refuse to be a statistic and I feel I came very close that night. I have learned never to pull all nighters going to see friends, I never use road side rest stops at night, and I always go to gas stations that are well lit with people around. I no longer like Wakeenie KS. 

Andy

Blackwater OPS
February 26, 2006, 09:14 PM
The bad part? The guy was the girl's uncle, and this wasn't the first time . The family wouldn't cooperate and the prosecutor wouldn't take the case based only on a 12 yr. old's word.
Case in point why I do not want to be a cop anymore.

Never had to draw off duty, I would not draw unless I had followed the force continuum so drawing on an unarmed BG would be a no no for me. I would feel differently if i did not have the training and size that I do. Not knocking other people choices though, better to be tried by 12.....

LICCW
February 26, 2006, 10:00 PM
I have carried mace for 12 years, a knife for 6, Surefire for 2, and pistol for 1. Never needed to use any for SD. Train like I will have to at any minute, have been in some scrapes along the way but worked them out without using any of the above. I really believe situational awareness has carried me through so far, and will continue to. I hope I never need to use any of it, but i will always have the options

chrisandclauida2
February 27, 2006, 01:05 AM
on duty several times. only twice did i have pressure on the trigger. i have shot many a person but with less lethal ammo. the first time was just as stressful as a real shooting i would guess, to me anyways. after that shooting less lethal wasn't as stressful. i will say it is just that less lethal. that means you can still kill someone with it if it is placed wrong not skipped etc.

i was on a work crew where one idiot tried to test my limits. he almost got dead by me and the rifle guy covering the whole crew. i had pressure on the trigger and so did the gunner covering all of us.

another time we had a drunk actually try to break into one of the units and as i caught up to him he started digging in a bag threatening me and damned near got dead. he pulled a bottle to drink it before he went to jail. that was the closest i ever was to actually pulling the trigger on a lethal round.

Chris1911
March 2, 2006, 03:33 PM
Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented every day in the US by citizens who brandish a handgun in self defense without even firing a shot! But then again, you should only draw your weapon if you have the utmost intention of using it.....

I think some criminals can just take a look at you and tell whether or NOT you will shoot him/her...And back off accordingly

Skyguy
March 3, 2006, 11:10 AM
You should never pull your weapon unless you’re going to use it; I did it anyway because I felt threatened.

Even though that tactic is taught by many self defense/shooting 'instructors', it is rubbish and it's taught only to cover their own asses.

It's amazing how self preservation begets common sense and puts that silly 'never-unless' notion to rest.
.

threegun
March 3, 2006, 03:44 PM
From the balcony of a bungalo my cousin held a pair of truck burgulars at shotgun point as his wife called police and then me. Living next door I threw on my shoulder holstered Glock 21 and ran in cutoff pajama shorts to the scene. My cousin had two badguys sitting on his tailgate crapping in their pants. He asked if I could check for his ruger that he had forgotten to bring in that evening. I made a giant loop to keep away from both the 2 badguys and the crazyman with a shotgun LOL. I find the gun (still in the truck) when I hear my cousin yell "sit your arse down". I immediatly looked up and saw one of the badguys stand and take a step towards me. I drew the 21 and said get back and they did Immediatly. Cops came and took the pair to jail and thanked both of us. They said nothing about the Glock or the shotgun just "thanks guys".

Another

This guy walks into the pawnshop that I worked at. The trench coat this unsavory looking character was wearing catches my attention. This guy heads across the room, straight to my partner, never looking at me. As he makes his way about half way through he lifts the left side of his coat open with his left hand and reaches under his arm as if to grab a holstered gun. I immediatly start to draw. As my pistol begins to clear leather, I see the back end and side of the gun this guy is pulling from under his arm as he himself begins to clear leather. My Glock 20 now climbing his leg and pressure is being applied to the trigger. Just then I realize that the pistol this guy is pulling is a bb gun. The kind they sell with a dart board. To make a long story short this idiot actually pulled and pointed this bb gun at my partner before asking for a loan on it. He told my partner he wanted to scare him. I came about a short hairs thickness from shooting at this guy. My partner froze after being caught off guard. We threw the guy out and called the police.