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CobrayCommando
February 6, 2006, 01:36 AM
And use a .45 to hunt hogs and post pictures and an after hunt report?! :D

I'm too lazy to hunt, what with all the sitting and such, and remembering the results of the last hog hunt with a 9mm, I'm itching to see if a .45 does any better.

For those of you who didn't catch it, the hunter made a good shot but the 9mm deflected off of the tanklike shoulder bone. I didn't expect that, I don't think anyone did LOL

Dirty_Harry
February 7, 2006, 02:25 PM
Well if I lived somewhere where I could hunt hogs regularly I would try it, but for now I am still waiting for that one chance to get one with my .450.....that counts as a .45 doesn't it :D ?

zeisloft
February 7, 2006, 03:05 PM
230 gn lead TC bullets moving around 950fps and 1/4ing away on hog of about 175 or less has worked well for me. That and right behind the ear have put about 2 dozen or so down for me. This is not a recomendation for the average pistol shooter to rely on a .45 as a primary weapon, but you asked. The 1/4ing away will not lay them down where they stand, but a low shot will knock out the pump, and they lay inside 35-40yds.
~z

whiskey
February 7, 2006, 10:19 PM
I am going this weekend. I will have my .45 and I will try to take a pig with it.

I am not going to shoot it in the body. I will shoot it in the ear and will take pictures if I get one. I am not worried about shooting a pig in the body, I just don't like to track them and a head shot cures me having to crawl through the pig runs and swim the swamp to get a wounded pig.

I am probably going to take a 100 pound or less pig, cause I need a smaller pig for an upcoming pig picking party.

Rich Lucibella
February 7, 2006, 11:29 PM
Sigh-
Here we go again.

Guys-
If you're hunting over feeders with hogs familiar to Man; do what you will. But I defy anyone here to put one "right behind the ear" in any Real hog hunt. I've already made that challenge and it's already been answered; the results were quite negatory.

Someone wanna step up and take the TFL Hog Challenge, Part Deux? It's gonna require a $$$ bet. Our bet: We'll get you on hogs; Your bet: you'll kill one with a .45. No feeders; no posing; just a real hunt.
Step up or stifle yourselves. People are watching!
Rich

Ledbetter
February 8, 2006, 01:50 PM
It got so quiet.:confused: :rolleyes:

12-34hom
February 8, 2006, 03:33 PM
Rich, instead of a 45 would a 10mm suffice. if so i'd be game.

12-34hom.

whiskey
February 8, 2006, 04:05 PM
Rich, we live close enough. I would like to hunt somewhere else.

Yes, I was planning on hunting a feeder, but I was unaware of the other requirements/posts/challenges.

I would love to hunt non-feeder hogs and be able to get within 25 yards. I know that some herds of hogs are too weary to get within 25 yards except with the most perfect conditions/set-up. However, I have hunted hogs on management land that were not feeder hogs and have gotten much closer than 25 yards. I think that any handgun hunter worth his salt should be able to kill a hog with a head shot at less than 25 yards with a .45 auto.

I have not done it with a .45 but it should not be any more difficult to hit a pig with a .45 than with any other handgun. If this is true, then the only question is will the .45auto kill the pig, right? I have no doubt that the .45 auto loaded correctly will kill any pig with a head shot. It will kill most with a body shot.

I think the challenge is in getting close enough to use an open sighted pistol on a pig, not that a .45 will do the job. Do you agree?

I will try to stalk a pig this weekend. I will try to get close enough to use my 45auto and I will let everyone know how it went. I enjoy hunting. I enjoy challenges. I will enjoy trying to complete this. However, I don't think being able to do this will prove anything to me. I don't think it means that I am a better hunter than anyone else. I am just not clear what the hard part is here.

edited to add:

I do not claim to be able to get within handgun range everytime I hunt pigs, but I have done it enough to make it my perfered method of hunting. Yes I hunt over feeders sometimes, but I stalk too. I use the same gun.

Capt Charlie
February 8, 2006, 04:21 PM
Here's the prior thread that was mentioned. Lots of good info, and lots o' laughs.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185104&page=4

20cows
February 8, 2006, 05:00 PM
I don't know about a .45 acp on a feral hog, but the javalina I shot with mine (230 gr Golden Sabre) had time to run off before he died. It was a behind the shoulder lung shot at 20 yards. There was no exit wound and no blood trail. He was found a couple of weeks later by the smell.:(

Needless to say, it was kinda' dissappointing. (The .38-55 did a much better job.)

H&H,hunter
February 8, 2006, 07:43 PM
Reality check!

Of the hundreds and hundreds of hogs we've killed over the years I can only think of one or two intentional head shots.

Ashley hunts them with a pistol and kills them all the time. .44Mag .500Linebaugh, .475 Linebaugh ETC.

A head shot with a rifle is an extremely low percentage shot on real life wild hog. If you've ever seen a hog skull you'd know why. It is darn near impossible with a pistol under real life wild hunting conditions.

Here's the other little dark secret, shoot one with a proper handgun load say a 330 gr Garret .44 Mag and even with a nearly prefect body hit in the lungs you will more often than not have a blood tracking job ahead of you.

Arguing the merits of a .45ACP over a 9MM on wild hogs is like having a heated argument over which was the better drag car, the Pinto or the Gremlin.
:D ;)

Rich Lucibella
February 8, 2006, 08:43 PM
Arguing the merits of a .45 AP over a 9MM on wild hogs is like having a heated argument over which was the better drag car, the Pinto or the Gremlin.ROTFLMAO!

Guys-
Just for background, H&H is one of my Texas hunting pards. He knows from whence he speaks and has hunted hogs longer and far more often than I.

12-34hom-
For my money, you are on the right track, Charlie. I think that a hot loaded 10mm (Buffalo Bore, for instance) is probably the minimum handgun caliber for the job. Best bet would be a broadside lung shot, behind the shoulder. I have real doubts about getting to the heart on a shoulder shot. In any case, a hog is not a "dead" hog unless the kill is confirmed....agreed?

Well, absent a real good tracking dog, I'll give you about a 30% chance of finding that 10mm lung shot hog.

Whiskey-
Chances are, we'll get you to within 25 yards. But let me understand something here: are you claiming ability to hit a 3 inch target with a handgun at 25 yards? Offhand? Under field conditions? Consistently?

If so, not only are your skills world class, but you stand to make a LOT of money. I'll give you 3:1 odds. I'll pick up all travel and camp expenses; fly you out personally; and if we don't get you to within 25 yards, lasered, the bet is off.

Once you pull the trigger, you can shoot as many times as you wish. A dead hog is defined as one we get pictures of with you sitting behind it with your .45. No do-overs; no "let's look for another one".

How fair is that? Let's start talking dates and the wager. Go.
Rich

H&H,hunter
February 8, 2006, 09:06 PM
Rich,

Blood tracking dog is in progress. "Good" blood tracking dog is going to take some time.;)

However, the way I've been shooting lately the dog is going to get some serious practice here in the next couple of months.

So if our hunter miffs the shot inside of 25 yards does he get to pay all of your travel expenses?

Now that puts some pressure on!:D :eek:

whiskey
February 8, 2006, 09:07 PM
I shoot hogs in the head, I guess I am being liberal by saying the head, because I also include the "neck" behind the ear. Usually it is really the head and the brains are removed in the process. Usually it is with a .44mag with a 300gr XTP out of a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

I guess where we hunt ain't the real world and the pigs we are shooting aren't really "real world" wild hogs.

I have seen pigs run off from a 12ga slug to the vitals and I have seen them fall over dead from a .357mag to the heart. I have seen them go feet up from an arrow to the vitals. I have seen them run off without bleeding enough to trail from all sorts of firearms. I have never seen one run off from a head shot.

This is just the way I do it. It may not be right or best, but it works well for me.

Rich, No I am not saying I can hit the first hog I see within 25 yards. I wouldn't, just as I am sure you wouldn't, take a bad shot just to prove something. If the conditions were right, if the shot was good and I had a clean shot under 25 yards, then yes I would shoot.

I don't want you to pay for a hunt or bet money. You are welcome to come hunt with me for free. No cost to you but the gas from your house. We will walk around in the woods and if we see a pig on the trail within distance, I will shoot it with a .45 or you can shoot it with whatever you like.

I enjoy hunting and I like to do it ethically. I don't think a .45 to the head is unethical if the shot is good. I don't "hunt" with a .45, but I do know it will kill a hog.

H&H,hunter
February 8, 2006, 09:18 PM
Whiskey,

"Real world" in my book is no feeders no baits no spot lights.

These hogs are purely wild never been fenced and hunted hard. I find them to be about as weary as your average mountain grizzly.

And much like a bear they can be approached to close range while feeding or sleeping but also like a bear that requires them to be spotted first. Not an easy trick in the terrain which encompases this ranch.

So a lot of the shots we get tend to be jump shots as they break cover at close range.

This tends to be quite a bit more challenging than hunted from a stand over a bait.

whiskey
February 8, 2006, 09:19 PM
http://www.texasboars.com/hunting/photos/kz.jpg

According to the guys over at texasboars.com, this is the best kill zone on a hog.

whiskey
February 8, 2006, 09:25 PM
I have stalked pigs in Florida swamps and palmetto flats that are free range and never been to a feeder. Usually they are management area pigs and are hunted hard. I know what you mean about hard to get an easy shot. However, I didn't claim to be good enough to hit a running pig with any handgun, although I may be? I don't usually shot at running game. I would rather wait and get a better shot. I have killed pigs from the ground, away from feeders with a handgun. I am not saying it is a piece of cake, just that doing it with a .45 is no harder than doing it with any other handgun.

H&H,hunter
February 8, 2006, 09:36 PM
Whiskey,

Sounds like you're our man.

The offer is on the table. Your move.:cool:

whiskey
February 8, 2006, 09:46 PM
OK after reading the previous post I better understand why Rich is in a tizzy about this talk of shooting pigs with a 9mm or 45 auto. I don't think I would like to hunt pigs in the style that Rich and gang hunted in Texas with a pistol at all. I have hunted "swamp buggy" style down around Okeechobee. We used shotguns, camp rule, with buck shot. It worked ok, but we had to use dogs to track usually and often had to use catch dogs to hold the wounded pig for the knife guy (not me).

I don't want anyone to think that I am claiming to be able to hit any running animal with a .45 or that I think the .45 is the best choice. I hunt differently. I walk quietly in known hog havens and get lucky enough to have them cross trails close enough for a shot.

Anyone who has been in the woods with hogs know that they do not sneak through the palmettos. You can hear them feeding and moving. It is not impossible to get ahead of the pigs and set up for a good close shot when they hit a clearing. This is the way I do it.

I will take a pig with a .45 and report the results. I just want to see the hole it makes in the pig.

FirstFreedom
February 8, 2006, 10:33 PM
C'mon whiskey - do it like Harley Quinn did! A free hunt is a free hunt! Fun for all involved even if not successful. Plus you'll eat like a king with Chef Rich (maybe he'll sing a song for you like Chef on Southpark). And, you can cheat with a .45 super - I'll loan you my Springfield longslide 6" in Super if you like. It's a ".45". Can't wait to read another thread on a pistol hog hunt - what a hoot. Too bad pigs don't stop when you grunt or whistle like deer.... I'm starting to think I was crazy for even asking this question:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196591

And here's the *original* thread that got the whole great hog hunt 4 page thread started:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184571

Art Eatman
February 8, 2006, 11:37 PM
I've never hunted with a pistol, but I've often gotten close enough to deer and hogs that I'd feel confident in taking a shot at that five or ten yards. :) Even so, I'd prefer a .44 Mag or .45 Colt over the ACP.

Ruark said, "Use enough gun." Well, yeah, but a little bit more than just enough ain't a bad thing...

:), Art

CobrayCommando
February 9, 2006, 12:31 AM
Well I think I might have cost Rich alot of money here! :o

Sorry man!

impact
February 9, 2006, 12:31 AM
Yah I'm thinking the same thing as Art. I've shot many .......... Piglets with a 45.........Colt!:D

I love my mini 30 for close range. The last two hogs I shot I could have shot with a 45 acp. But drop them dead in there tracks? I don't know? One was a feeder hog and the other I chased through the woods.

impact
February 9, 2006, 12:35 AM
Well I think I might have cost Rich alot of money here!

Sorry man!

I think we should all get together and hunt hogs and see what we can do. Lets go have fun!

Rich Lucibella
February 9, 2006, 03:26 AM
Whiskey-
First off, I'm honestly not calling you out. In a tizzie about people hunting hog with .45? Perhaps. Same with .22 LR Coyote Assassins. I consider it inefficient, non-productive and, yes (despite your claims to the contrary), unethical.

I've hunted FL hogs as I live here too. Now don't get me wrong. Florida has hogs every bit as feral as Texas. However, as you know, our most concentrated hunting here are areas where humans are hardly an "event" for them.

Yes, I, too, believe that, under the right conditions, I could take a feral hog with a .45. Hell, under the "right" conditions, I could take one with a pen knife. But hunting, true hunting, never allows us to pick the conditions. That's why we call it "hunting", no?

So, if I'm challenging you, it's for one claim only. The claim that you can ace a hog (I couldn't care if it's feet were buried in cement) with a brain shot from a .45 at 25 yards. Once again, that is a 3 inch target....one and one half inches square....take a skull and measure it. I don't care how many you've hit with a .44 Mag where "the brains are removed in the process". We are talking a 3" hit on a truly feral hog, at 25 yards...with a 45 ACP...from offhand...under field conditions...on demand...consistently. No matter how you spin it, that is World Class Shooting.

Know what really gets me "tizzied" about it? It tells those just starting out that this is acceptable, if you know you're a "good" shot. The result? Lots of wounded hogs; lots of stories about how "I just know he ran off and died"; lots of jaw breaks....every thing's fun and games until someone "puts an eye out". :D

So, I'll give you the next shot at The Challenge. You tell us what rules are acceptable and we'll see if we can't accommodate to allow you to prove to everyone else here that the 45 ACP is an appropriate, chosen weapon for killing feral hogs.
Rich

CelticMP
February 9, 2006, 06:36 AM
I hunt hogs with a bow. and i carry a .40 cal on my hip for a BUG;) . but i am in a tree stand. :D there is not a big enough $$$ purse in the world to get me on the ground with one of those beasts. they are mean and down right evil creatures. i cannot believe you guys are actually considering hunting feral hogs like that. i guess i just lack the testicular fortitude or my logic out weighs my sense of adventure. either way good luck and be careful.

youp
February 9, 2006, 08:56 AM
I don't know about pistols or the like. I kind of enjoyed my hunts up on the Big Swamp Club. I never did see any of the hog hunters I was with carrying any firearm at all. They just caught them and cut them and docked the tail. It was a hoot for sure. They are all pretty good tree climbers.

whiskey
February 9, 2006, 09:53 AM
Rich, I read the first post and it said “All right who is going to man up and shoot a hog with a .45 ACP?” I offered to give it a go this weekend. I wasn’t aware of the previous outing. Then you offered to take someone “on a real hunt with a .45, no feeders.” I thought you wanted to go “stalk” some pigs one weekend. I don’t know the difference between Texas pigs and Florida pigs. I have shot pigs in Georgia and Florida. I guess they are more closely related because they act about the same.

to allow you to prove to everyone else here that the 45 ACP is an appropriate, chosen weapon for killing feral hogs.

I never claimed that the .45 ACP is the right gun for hunting pigs, but it is better than a .22 if you ask me and I have seen more people hunting hogs with .22 rifles than .45 autos.
I don’t think you will find any experienced hog hunter claim the .45 is the best for hogs, but you will be able to find plenty that could kill a hog with one and that was the challenge as I read it in the first post.

I've hunted FL hogs as I live here too. Now don't get me wrong. Florida has hogs every bit as feral as Texas. However, as you know, our most concentrated hunting here are areas where humans are hardly an "event" for them.

Of the hogs I have hunted, the ones that see humans the most are the hardest to hunt. The last piece of “untouched” land I hunted here, had not been hunted in decades and the hogs had not seen humans to speak of in years. We had hogs come into camp and lick the bacon grease from breakfast off the ground 20 yards from where we were sitting. We had hogs walk past us at 10 yards on the road and do little more than snort at us as we talked amongst ourselves. :shrug:

Know what really gets me "tizzied" about it? It tells those just starting out that this is acceptable, if you know you're a "good" shot. The result? Lots of wounded hogs; lots of stories about how "I just know he ran off and died"; lots of jaw breaks....every thing's fun and games until someone "puts an eye out".

Maybe you’re right. Maybe this is worse. I forget that people are crazy enough to believe everything they read on sites like this.

What can be done and what should be done are two different things. I don’t recommend people hunting hogs with a .45, I just offered to kill one for this feller that started this post and take a few pics. I guess I missed the history lesson that preceded this post.

H&H,hunter
February 9, 2006, 09:53 AM
I never did see any of the hog hunters I was with carrying any firearm at all. They just caught them and cut them and docked the tail. It was a hoot for sure. They are all pretty good tree climbers.

Youp,

I've killed a couple of hogs with 3" Wegner folder. Wild hogs that my DOG caught. I just stabed them in the right place while the dog did all the dangerous work.

Are you trying to tell me that you were catching wild hogs by hand? Or did you ommit the part about the catch dogs?

As far as hogs being wild hell beasts, that is a wide exageration. Hogs make some wicked noises, grunts, screams, growls and barks which is why I think that people are scared of them.

Hogs are only dangerous when cornered or wounded and even then they are 90% bluff. I've had them come screaming and growling straight at me on many occasions when I've been between them and where they want to go. And if there is any possiblity they will dodge around you at the last second or retreat once they see you are going to hold your ground.

On one occasion I did have a real life porky charge. Here is the common factor I've noticed in a really aggresive hog. When they see or smell you they'll throw their tail in the air the hair on their back goes up and they'll start spining and screaming right before they come at you. That is in my limited experience the one you need to watch out for. Especially the one who do it in the wide open. That's how a really ****** porky displays.

Rich Lucibella
February 9, 2006, 09:31 PM
Whiskey-
Based on your last post, we're on the same page.
Thanks-
Rich

formerflyer
February 10, 2006, 05:21 AM
H&H:

You’ve been charged by Porky’s TWICE, if I recall correctly. I distinctly remember hastily climbing up a granite boulder to get away from a pack of ****** off javelina with someone that looked just like you, only skinny. :rolleyes:
I believe the occasion was that we’d gone hiking and both of us forgot to bring a gun. I think even your dog was disgusted with us that day. :o

youp
February 10, 2006, 08:39 AM
Of course there was a catch dog on an ear, two on the big boars. The men I was with had no desire to kill one of the hogs. They actually were interested in having more hogs on the lease. That is why they cut (castrate) and docked the tail on the young boars. The lease is very big and many types of people hunt there. Deer hunters, both still and dog, bear, and hog. The barrows were all marked with the docked tail. Any member wanting a meat hog could take one and not affect the breeding stock.

Art Eatman
February 10, 2006, 11:42 AM
"I saw one of your killer pigs."
"Javelina?"
"No thanks. Already did that."

stickslinger
February 10, 2006, 01:19 PM
Well, I'm headed to TX in a couple of weeks to go hog hunting....no feeders.

I'll be bringing my .45 because I can legally carry in TX, BUT...


I'll be hunting with a 57# longbow and some homemade wooden arrows with a hand sharpened broadhead. Nothing to it! Stick em in the lungs and they don't go far and sometimes the rest of the sounder will wander back while you're sitting there waiting for your arrow to work! Good fun!

Now, I did shoot a big TX boar right behind the ear with a 30-06 once at about 80yds. I was shooting handloads with 180gr Nosler BT and the bullet did not exit. Incidentally, he wasn't at a feeder or following any thrown out corn, just wandering around.

Hey Rich, is it the dense cover and stalking in FL that makes the head shot so illusive? Can you bait hogs in FL?

H&H,hunter
February 10, 2006, 01:51 PM
Formerflyer,

Hogs are one thing them Peckered Collaries is a hole nuther story.:D

I distinctly remember that the dog actually started the whole thing cornering a sounder of javalina then when they realized they were cornered they decided to give "Sunny" a little bit of the ole javalina hiyacka.

Of course I also remember that rotten little beast beat us to the top of the rocks in a steady, rapid, retreating manuver.:D

That darn dog was a skunk, javalina & porcupine catching little SOB. And he never once won a single fight with those critters. He's the reason I'm married to veterinarian today. I knew I'd never be able to afford the vet bills with my hobbies!

youp
February 10, 2006, 06:34 PM
Hate them Porkies.:(

Rich Lucibella
February 10, 2006, 06:41 PM
Hey Rich, is it the dense cover and stalking in FL that makes the head shot so illusive?
Nope. They're as easy to head shoot as deer.
All you have to do is be very quiet and capable of hitting a 3" target with a handgun, from offhand, under field conditions consistently.

Can you bait hogs in FL?Yup....and that's about your only hope of killing one with a .45.
Rich

FirstFreedom
February 10, 2006, 11:43 PM
I distinctly remember hastily climbing up a granite boulder to get away from a pack of ****** off javelina with someone that looked just like you, only skinny

HA! I think formerflyer's gonna tell some stories on H&H! :)

formerflyer
February 11, 2006, 04:04 AM
Come to think of it, I believe it was Sunny that started that fracas. He sure hated Javelina. His hatred probably had something to do with the Javelina that took care of his neutering, in a very informal and un-sterile fashion.

That dog had the worst personality, the least training, the most aggression and the fewest redeeming social characteristics of any dog I ever met. Kind of like us at the time, now that you think about it. :D

Oh, and to put this (ever so slightly) back on topic: The .45 works just fine. On Javelina. Up close. So does a .40 S&W. 9MM was much less impressive. It sounded like a running gun battle before everything finally got settled. As for pistols on feral hogs, I'll keep carrying one for backup, but wouldn't want to hunt with a pistol as the primary weapon with anything less than a heavy-bullet .357. That shooting into a moving teacup at 25 yards stuff sounds a little bit above my ability, so I'll stick with something that will work with a shoulder shot.

Desertfox
February 11, 2006, 07:32 AM
I think I speak for more than one or two of the rest of us when I say;
It would be a blast to go with you two sometime.
Thanks for the stories and such.
That part about most agression and fewest redeeming social characteristics sounds like my ex-wife and I believe she socially neutered me in a very informal and un-sterile fashon. Another story.
Those little javelina are a little more pack agressive when your dogs get em cornered than hogs. Ever have the rest of the pack come to the rescue of one?
Does the hair on the back of your neck stand up when they do that moan and gnashing of teeth thing?
Just fishing for a story. Thanks

youp
February 11, 2006, 08:16 AM
I really would like to know Sunny's breed.

loggerhead
February 11, 2006, 08:46 AM
Hunting hogs under a feeder? All you need is a 22LR between the eyes, hog will drop in his tracks and the bullet will wind up in his neck.

If you really want an exciting hunt do it with dogs. My crowd uses dogs to find and bay the hog. Up until recently a couple of the hunters would take the hog down, rest of the group would catch and hold dogs while the two catchers tie the hog up and load him on a four wheeler. The hog is then disposed of by either, butchering him, relocate him or selling him. More recently the conservation department has innitiated restrictive regulations on trasporting them, they have to be dead. Since this time we usually do him in with a knife, for a really big one, say over 200 # we will shoot him assuming that we can do it with out hitting one of the dogs. We use what ever gun someone happens to have at the moment as most of us do not carry on the hunt. We never use an arrow as the braod head might pennetrate the hog and cut up the dogs as the hog continues to fight.
A lot of hogs are taken during deer season from shooting houses and climbers by deer hunters. Any weapon capable of killing a deer will also kill a hog.

Art Eatman
February 11, 2006, 06:06 PM
Aw, javelulus are fun. Ease up and grab a baby piggie and they all run off except Mama. She pops her jaws and gets all upset. Piggie squeals and wiggles. Set him down, and away they go.

I took Long Path down into Long Draw one evening, trying to catch him a Bambi. Just before dark, I heard noises from behind me, upwind. About 20 pigelinas. They came feeding by, and a momma and baby came around until she caught my scent. She walked up to within six or eight feet, going through the dangdest nose-wrinkling gyrations and breathing as deeply as she could, trying to figure out what was this strange new thing. She left, and another came and went through the same deal. It was all I could do not to move and hee-haw with a bunch of raucous laughter.

Stuff like that is what makes outdoor doings so much fun.

:), Art

H&H,hunter
February 12, 2006, 10:55 PM
I really would like to know Sunny's breed.

Sunny was an Australian red heeler cross. I know that the bitch was pure bred heeler.

I suspect the sire was either a spotted hyena or a badger.:D

Sunny met an untimely demise after I got married. He killed three of the brides cats.

Can't really see the problem in that, can you?:confused:

He broke out of his yard one day and made a bee-line into the neighbors yard, a deputy sheriff, in fact the K-9 unit for the county. Sunny made short work of the highly trained police dog. That cost me big time. The older Sunny got the more aggressive he became. I was the only person whom he respected or could control him. I had a strict rule that he wasn’t allowed in the house but he was smart and sneaky as a cat.

The final straw came when I walked into the bedroom and found him staring intently into the crib where my newborn daughter was peacefully sleeping , talk about getting a case of the chills.

It would have been very similar to having found Charles Manson staring into your bedroom window! And I handled it accordingly.

I, or I should say, my sweet young bride killed him.

Desert Fox,

I can tell you this for certain. I will not run dogs on javalina purposely. Those little suckers are way more dangerous to a dog than any feral hog I've ever witnessed.

I compare the two like this. A big feral hog is fighter but there isn't much he can't back down with bad language and a sour expression. kind of like a big ole tatted up biker dude. He is used to getting his way through intimidation and will only really fight when pressed.

A javalina is small in stature and lives amongst some of the keenest predators in the Americas, Lions, Bobcats and such and is small enough to be considered easy prey. A javalina is the real deal and they know how to fight. Kind of like that quiet 140Lb guy sitting at the back of the bar with the wall to his back and that "1000 yard" stare. Small, fast and quick to cut you if you get in his face.

If you know what I mean.;)

whiskey
February 13, 2006, 04:00 PM
Hunting hogs under a feeder? All you need is a 22LR between the eyes, hog will drop in his tracks and the bullet will wind up in his neck.


I do not recommend shooting any hog between the eyes (the forehead). I know of this failing on two seperate occasions. Once was a .22LR and an inexperianced hunter. The pig shook his head and trotted off. No blood, no dead pig. Pig was spotted later doing fine.

On another occasion, a large boar was caught with dogs and tied. The hog was rather ****** and it was decided that it would be better to shoot him now instead of later at camp. The hog was shot in the forehead with a .38 special. The hog appeared dead. Once at camp the hog ties were removed and the hog was dropped from the swamp buggy to the ground. Upon hitting the ground, the hog jumped up and ran off, never to be seen again.

H&H,hunter
February 13, 2006, 08:50 PM
A hog's brain lays behind the eyes. Also a hogs skull is flat. So if he is facing you and you shoot him in "lump" above his eyes that is nothing more than muscle and fat it will often knock out a pig for a while.

To make a head on, no down angle brain shot on a hog you have to shoot him in nose right square between the nostrils.

From the side you need to aim just behind and level with the eye.

Boddington wrote about having a .38 special fail to penetrate on a hog's skull as well. I would suspect that it's less of a penetration problem and more of a glancing problem after looking at a hog skull.

CobrayCommando
February 14, 2006, 01:08 AM
Is a hogs heart located several inches above and slightly behind the front leg? Is it protected by a sheath of shoulder bone?

I've seen "autopsy" photos but its hard to discern whats what from them due to the blood and whatnot.

H&H,hunter
February 14, 2006, 11:59 AM
A hogs heart is further forward than a deer, as are it's lungs.

The heart lays between the shoulders. On a perfect broadside hog if you line up with the front leg on the horizontal plain and keep your bullet in the lower third of the body in the vertical plain you should hit pay dirt.

If you shoot right behind the shoulder you get the back of lungs. I've also noticed that this can vary a bit from hog to hog depending on it's genetic background. But you can't go wrong aiming for the "basketball' between the shoulder from any angle on any hog.


On a large boar they can have as much as three inches of hardened cartilage plate over the entire thoracic region. This plate is so thick and hard on SOME hogs that I've seen them totally expand the best premium bullets from heavy caliber rifle before the bullet even gets through the "shield".

While I've never had a large caliber bullet stopped in the on side shield I've seen them stop bullet on the off side many times. I've seen them stop .375H&H's shooting Nosler 300gr PT's,Barnes X, and Swift A-frames. I've seen them stop various 250gr .338's and more often than not they'll stop a .30cal bullets of any dimension.

NOTE,

This is on a LARGE boar hog 300+ Lbs. Smaller, or younger hogs generally will not stop these high testosterone rounds.

I've never seen a hog stop any .416 or larger round with the exception of the .45-70 they will more often than not stop a .45-70 shooting Remington 405gr soft points and especially if they are cooked up to over 1800fps. That velocity is just to much for that bullet design to hold together.

loggerhead
February 14, 2006, 03:21 PM
by H&HHunter: A hog's brain lays behind the eyes. Also a hogs skull is flat. So if he is facing you and you shoot him in "lump" above his eyes that is nothing more than muscle and fat it will often knock out a pig for a while.

Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting but here is a couple pictures of the skull of a 360# boar. Note that the brain cavity is above and behind the eye sockets. Also, there is nothing covering the bone in this area except the skin and hair. A shot between the nostrils would probaly travel through his mouth and hit the spinal cord having the same affect as a brain shot.

I have seen many large hogs killed with a single shot from a .22, even with shorts. Admittedly the .22 is not the desired weapon for serios hog hunting. A good 30 caliber is what you need.

loggerhead
February 14, 2006, 03:26 PM
Sorry about that. Don;t know what happened to the pic, the attachment window said that it was attaching the pic. I will try again laterl.

CobrayCommando
February 15, 2006, 12:44 AM
On a large boar they can have as much as three inches of hardened cartilage plate over the entire thoracic region. This plate is so thick and hard on SOME hogs that I've seen them totally expand the best premium bullets from heavy caliber rifle before the bullet even gets through the "shield".

While I've never had a large caliber bullet stopped in the on side shield I've seen them stop bullet on the off side many times. I've seen them stop .375H&H's shooting Nosler 300gr PT's,Barnes X, and Swift A-frames. I've seen them stop various 250gr .338's and more often than not they'll stop a .30cal bullets of any dimension.


Fascinating, thanks for the reply. So in fact if one were to go hunting in areas where encountering one of these beasts was possible it would be wise to load a few solids in the rifle, and if you happen to not see one and shoot a smaller animal just load a softy on top of those to shoot it? I wouldn't want to stumble on one of these things at 5 yards only to find out I had a hot loaded softpoint in my gun that would blow itself apart in a few inches of cartilage.

loggerhead
February 15, 2006, 09:15 AM
FROM PREVIOUS POST Quote:
by H&HHunter: A hog's brain lays behind the eyes. Also a hogs skull is flat. So if he is facing you and you shoot him in "lump" above his eyes that is nothing more than muscle and fat it will often knock out a pig for a while

.

Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting but here is a couple pictures of the skull of a 360# boar. Note that the brain cavity is above and behind the eye sockets. Also, there is nothing covering the bone in this area except the skin and hair. A shot between the nostrils would probaly travel through his mouth and hit the spinal cord having the same affect as a brain shot.

I have seen many large hogs killed with a single shot from a .22, even with shorts. Admittedly the .22 is not the desired weapon for serios hog hunting. A good 30 caliber is what you need.


WILL TRY THE PICS AGAIN

Art Eatman
February 15, 2006, 09:57 AM
Sheesh! Look, guys, there just ain't no "one size fits all" in hunting anything! Believe me!

Sure, if you have the time to get the proper angle for a shot on a hog that's just standing around, you can kill him with a pipsquesk cartridge. That doesn't prove anything.

Out in the field, you don't know if you'll see a quiescent hog at some distance, and you can plan your shot, taking your time. Or, you might come around a bush and at some five yards find 300 pounds of Irate Bacon. No way to know ahead of time.

What I think H&H is trying to say is that you gotta figure on being able to deal with worst-case conditions. So, penetration of heavy bone and gristle is a major factor. A broken-down animal is less of a threat to your own precious body.

Then again, like a buddy of mine did, you shoot the silly hog with a .357 and have an impressive set of three-inch tusks in the head on your office wall.

Art

Smoke Screen
February 15, 2006, 12:49 PM
I'm from a different region. (Kalifornistan) How big to Javelina get? Are they found only in Tex, or are they in AZ and NM too? I would like to hunt em, are they different from pigs in HW? I have hunted pigs in Hawaii and boy, do those Hawaiians know how to cook pig! :)

H&H,hunter
February 15, 2006, 02:37 PM
Loggerhead,

Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting


Answer,

Wild boars with a LOT of euro genetics.

That skull in your picture looks like it came from a very recently domestic hog. In fact it looks a lot like a Duroc skull which is characterized by a short tall skull.

Some characteristics which define a wild boar are. Short round ears never floppy like on a farm pig. A longer head. A tall narrow chest with thin relatively light hindquarters.

Coloration is black to golden brown with a distinctive "Razor" along the top of the back from the neck to the mid body.

We do get a lot of hogs who have tons of wild boar genes that do not make the color. We have quite a few white spotted hogs which have all the other wild characteristics.

Every once in a while we'll shoot a nearly pure feral Duroc or Hampshire but it's pretty rare on our place. We even once shot a huge Pot belly/wild boar cross. Talk about a weird looking pig.:eek:

So I guess what Art said is even more salient. It is not possible to make a definitive statement when it comes to animals and huinting in general.

Here are some pics of an almost pure wild boar skull. He was about 200lbs.

Here is an example of what I was refering to on brain placement. Behind and slightly below the top of the eye.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Hogskullsideview.jpg

Here is an example of my statement that wild hogs have a flat skull which can deflect bullets.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Hogskullthreequarterview.jpg

Here is a view of how a hog would hold his head in a natural position. I think it is clear how one could imagine a possibility of a deflection from this angle. Also notice the "point" at the back and top of the skull. That is the Ocipital point and is nothing more than solid bone the brain lies in the bulge right behind the eyes. The pointy tip of the skull is often what is hit which merely knocks a hog out. Which is exactly what can happen if you shoot a facing boar above the eyes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Hogskullnaturalview.jpg

I think this also can explain how difficult it can be to make a succesfull head shot on a hog under field conditions with a pistol.

Greg

H&H,hunter
February 15, 2006, 03:01 PM
Cobray.
Fascinating, thanks for the reply. So in fact if one were to go hunting in areas where encountering one of these beasts was possible it would be wise to load a few solids in the rifle, and if you happen to not see one and shoot a smaller animal just load a softy on top of those to shoot it?

In fact I can't tell you how many times I've found a healed over bullet wounds in a big hogs shield. Most of the time when you find an old scared up bullet divit It'll have green coroded jacket material splatered around in it. The suspect bullets usually look like the remiains of a high velocity .22 or a 6mm or some such light weight high velocity varmint round.

So to answer your question I don't know that a solid is neccesary but a good well built bullet such as a Barnes or a Nosler would be prudent if you are shooting a hotrod light bullet.

Now I don't want any misunderstanding about this The bullets I mentioned were expanded when they got through the shield but they weren't expended. they still got into the goods and did their stuff.

CobrayCommando
February 15, 2006, 03:33 PM
Ok that cleared up my confusion, so basically as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine.

Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!

loggerhead
February 15, 2006, 04:48 PM
H&H, the skull I showed is that of a European Boar, about as pure bred as one can find in this area. Most of the "wild" hogs in this part of the country are either European or Feral and mostly Feral. The russians seem to disappear. I also have the skull of a russian that has the same configuration of the fore head. I have observed that when a hog walks or ambels along he does it with his nose down at about a 45 degree angle to his body but when he runs he runs with the nose up, and almost on a level with his body.

Nice skull you got there, looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little.

Rich Lucibella
February 15, 2006, 05:07 PM
as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fineYup....so long as you're referring to a medium bore rifle cartridge. :D

looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little Actually, those teeth look just about right for that head. Nice skull Greg.
Rich

H&H,hunter
February 15, 2006, 06:16 PM
Cobray,

Ok that cleared up my confusion, so basically as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine.

Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!

Yep that's it in a nut shell.

And

You are welcome I do hope that my posts are informative rather than incendiary.:)


Loggerhead,

I think you may be right on the tooth thing. I probably pulled that bottom one out at one time to show somebody and once you do that they'll never go all the way back in without cracking something. I have shot some euro crosses with muchmore bone sticking out than that though. I've posted this before but here is one of my better ones as far as teeth go he's got nearly 4 inches of tusk on each side out the bottom his tops were both worn off which explains his long bottoms.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Nicehog1.jpg

H&H,hunter
February 15, 2006, 06:34 PM
Smoke,

I'm from a different region. (Kalifornistan) How big to Javelina get? Are they found only in Tex, or are they in AZ and NM too? I would like to hunt em, are they different from pigs in HW? I have hunted pigs in Hawaii and boy, do those Hawaiians know how to cook pig!
__________________

Javalinas get to be 50Lbs or so 65Lbs is a giant.

They are found in Az, NM, Tx, Mexico Central and South America. Am I missing anywhere?

I agree Hawaiians are some of the best hog cookers on the planet. I was in Heialea, Maui a couple of years ago and had some Kahalua pork. WOW awesome stuff!!

CobrayCommando
February 15, 2006, 07:56 PM
Yup....so long as you're referring to a medium bore rifle cartridge.

WHAT! You mean I shouldn't hunt 350 pound boar with my 7.65mm Parabellum? :mad:


:p

loggerhead
February 15, 2006, 09:41 PM
Hunter, that is one big assed hog. I would like to have caught that sucker and tied him up-brought his ass out alive--what an adrenaline rush that would have been.

I will post a couple of pic of some pretty biguns tied up tomorrow.

Rich Lucibella
February 15, 2006, 10:03 PM
This one's starting to go WAY off topic.

Logger-
Make certain the trophies you come back with were taken by you.....and, perhaps a handgun in cal .45 Auto or less.

Trophies of hogs taken by three or a dozen dogs would not, I think, be comparable. :)
Rich

loggerhead
February 16, 2006, 08:17 AM
Rich, are you implying that it might be more "sporting" to shoot a hog with a high powered weapon at long range than it would be to have a pack of dogs bay the hog and then go in and take him down with the bare hands, and tie him up? If so then it becomes obvious you have never done it.

You are right, however, about the direction of the thread so-since I am of the "catching" group I am out of here.

Art Eatman
February 16, 2006, 10:37 AM
If somebody has unanswered question, how about start a new thread, okay? This one has more than run its course...

Art