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Trapp
January 8, 2006, 04:04 PM
Just came to thought. How accurate do you need for self defense? I have no issues with my accuacy and how it would affect my defense or defense of others. The question is for a newer shooter, how accurate do you need to be? How close does self defense shots happen? 5 yards? 10 yards? 50 yards? What would be a good standard?

My opinion would be a 10 yard consistant COM, with carry weapon, without "aim". More of a point and shoot consistant COM at 10 yards.

Input?

jrklaus
January 8, 2006, 04:11 PM
I heard Sanford Strong (retired detective from San Diego, CA, PD) say on a video that FBI statistics show that the average gunfight between LEOs and criminals takes place at a range of 3-9 feet. This video was made in the mid-nineties, so things may have changed, but I do suspect that figure was correct at the time. If indeed still correct, having acceptable accuracy at ten yards should be very sufficient.

What is acceptable accuracy? Inside 3-4", perhaps?

HGKosteck
January 8, 2006, 04:16 PM
What level of accuracy are you comfortable with trusting your life, or the lives of others to?

Not trying to bash you, just asking a question.

First, look at the scenerios you are likely to encounter.

Measure the maximum engagement ranges in your home.

You should be shooting very tight groups at that range, then, work up from there.

I do not trust my ability to hit a man size target reliably COM beyond 25 meters with my handgun under most non-permissive (square range) situations.

My Carbine extends this out to 300 meters, that's why I carry it in my trunk.

Remember that you are responsible for EVERY projectile launched from your weapon.

Tell your newer friend he needs to invest some money in a good training class from a reputable trainer.

Tactical Firearms Training Team/Tactical Response/Gabe Suarez...Those are just a few "road shows" that are availiable.

If you own a gun, it is your responsibility to yourself and, society to learn to use it properly.

If you can afford a gun, you can afford ammo and training.

Para Bellum
January 8, 2006, 04:35 PM
look at this thread and watch the video:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192679

you need to be very accurate (even with a .357 Mag) to stop a man.

USNavy_233
January 8, 2006, 04:41 PM
As a general rule if you can put your shots into a fist sized group, you're going to be just fine. What that boils down to is faster shots at closer ranges, slowly shots at farther ranges.

Trapp
January 8, 2006, 04:42 PM
Problem with that is it deals with law enforcement. I am talking your average Joe or Joann who would defend them selves in a parking lot, or their home....

boogeyman
January 8, 2006, 04:43 PM
I believe is well w/i 21 feet. Furthermore, I think the number of rounds fired (on average) is 3.

David Blinder
January 8, 2006, 05:17 PM
What's "good enough" and "fast enough"? You have the rest of your life to find out. In the meantime, two drills/tests/guidelines I think have merit are:
5/5/5/5 - 5 shots into 5" at 5 yards in 5 seconds from the holster concealed and
from the low ready, 3 shots to 2"X4" rectangle in 3 seconds at 5 yards.

If you can do both on demand, no warm up, you are are probably good to go on 99.9% of private citizen confrontations and the other .01%, you went from a bad day to an even worse one so regardless of how competent you are, nothing would have been good enough anyway.

OneInTheChamber
January 8, 2006, 06:29 PM
Its not just about being confident that of your 10 or so rounds that you could hit him; its that you won't miss him at all and strike an innocent person.

I like the 5/5/5/5 deal thing someone mentioned, I'm going to try that next weekend at the range.

Chase

Trapp
January 8, 2006, 06:41 PM
Its not just about being confident that of your 10 or so rounds that you could hit him; its that you won't miss him at all and strike an innocent person.


Honestly, If I am using deadly force, I don't think I will be the least bit concerned about innocent people gawking at my life being threatened.


I guess I might be taking this personal, I am confident in my abilities and could care less if anyone doubts me (at least thats what I keep telling myself!!). To expect Everyone to as good as your standards? Thats asking a bit much I think. Maybe I am wrong though. Can you honestly say that you could meet up to that standard. If that was a test for a CCW I think many people would fail miserably

pickpocket
January 8, 2006, 10:03 PM
Is there ever any excuse not to be as accurate, profficient, and responsible as you are able? Training, training, training.
Too many people accept minimum standards as 'good enough', expecting somehow that they will suddenly realize their gunfighter-like abilities and reflexes at the exact moment they need them.