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View Full Version : I'm so ticked off right now! (Remington 700 Bolt Handle Broke!)


mathman
November 25, 2005, 04:52 PM
I don't know if I should be mad at my 700 or myself.

I was shooting my 700 ADL Synthetic (.308) using 7.62 Nato (The Santa Barbara stuff that I have heard nothing but good things about) and everything was going fine until I fired one round and could not eject the casing. No matter how hard I pulled, it just wasn't coming out. So, I got a piece of wood and gently tapped on it with a hammer and the bolt broke off...not at the brazing, but the actual bolt itself! It looks like it is just a cast metal...awfully cheap.

Am I an idiot for shooting Nato rounds through the gun? Everything that I have heard/read said that it is OK to do this......Or, should I be mad at Remington for not making a better product?

I am truly not trying to flame Remington (I have many Remingtons and like them all). I just want to know what you experience folks have to say.

Average Joe
November 25, 2005, 05:25 PM
I have the same rifle, and Nato surplus is all I shoot in it. Never had a problem, except for South African ammo, makes the bolt real tight to turn. Maybe you got a bad lot ? I just stay away from AS ammo.

Henry Baker
November 25, 2005, 05:43 PM
Some people say that shooting 308 from a 7.62 and vise versa is bad medacine. I never hesitate to do it, but mabe they got lucky this time.

Sorry I don't have anything constructive to say, but good luck.

TPAW
November 25, 2005, 05:51 PM
mathman

So, I got a piece of wood and gently tapped on it with a hammer and the bolt broke off...not at the brazing, but the actual bolt itself! It looks like it is just a cast metal...awfully cheap.


Gentle tapping should not have broken the bolt completely off. Also, what did the shell casing look like when you got it out? Tell tale signs could explain what happened.

bgoldhunter
November 25, 2005, 05:52 PM
It's been known to happen, although it is usually the brazing. Seems the ADL models are more prone, although Remington says it is the same action. I have not had it happen personally, but have seen it. Check the below link-it would be manditory if I were using a 700 for dangerous game, although I personally wouldn't.

http://www.hdrifle.com/Rem700BoltMod.html

Olaf
November 25, 2005, 05:55 PM
"The bolt broke off"..... what does this mean ? You said that the brazing didn't let go....so I assume that the bolt HANDLE is still attached. So, do you mean that the BOLT BODY fractured....or the BOLT SHROUD....or one or both of the LOCKING LUGS ? You also said that, no matter how hard you pulled, you could not "eject" the casing. Do you mean EXTRACT the casing, from the chamber ? Ejecting the casing, with the 700, is simply a matter of withdrawing the bolt, until the neck of the case clears the forward edge of the loading/ ejection port. If you could not extract the case from the chamber, no matter how hard you pulled...then the problem obviously began with the cartridge. I would suspect an overloaded round (double-charged, perhaps). This may have severely damaged the bolt, at the forward end, including deforming the locking lugs. As well, if this is the cause, then the inside of the receiver is likely severely damaged. It seems that it did not cause the receiver to burst. That is a lucky thing, for you. However, if the bolt could not be withdrawn (was jammed in place)...then it was obviously damaged by the cartridge firing. The bolt body didn't just break on it's own. "Lightly tapping" on the bolt handle, to free the bolt and get it to slide to the rear....could NOT have caused the bolt body to fracture....or the locking lugs to shear off. It would require quite a lot of force or impact to do - more so than "lightly tapping" could ever do.

So, in conclusion, it sounds to me as if you had a double-charged (and thus dangerous) round, which severely damaged the bolt and receiver - but did not blow up in your face. If so, you should THANK Remington. The other possibility that comes to mind is that you beat the cr#p out of the bolt, to extract a split case....and you are guilding the lilly when you say...."lightly tapped". No offense intended at all - I am just trying to understand what actually happened. The item which will settle the issue, is the cartridge case. If it is split or blasted apart - then the fault lies with the round (and you should be thankful that you didn't get a faceful of bolt...as well as shrapnel). If the case is in perfect condition, then it would seem likely that the bolt was defective, in some way.

By the way, the bolt handle is a cast part. the bolt body and locking lugs are forged, then machined. Also, the correct way to remove a case, stuck in the chamber, is ALWAYS to use a rod or wooden dowel....and tap it out from the muzzle end. NEVER, no matter what kind of rifle (even a Mauser 98) beat on the bolt handle (even lightly)....to free a stuck case.

Pointer
November 25, 2005, 06:26 PM
Ship it to Remington

Odds are good they will fixed it for nothing

Ask them about headspacing variations

Pointer
November 25, 2005, 06:28 PM
The server failed as I was posting

Sorry

They're still working on it

and the cheque is still in the mail

Garand Guy
November 25, 2005, 06:50 PM
Can't believe I'm the first person to tell you this, but 7.62 NATO is .308

Henry Baker
November 25, 2005, 07:04 PM
Garand Guy, I am fully aware that 308 and 7.62 are two different ways of saying the same thing. There are differences however. Most commercial 308 ammo uses a smaller head space and is made to different tollorences than most millitary 7.62 ammo. Some times they are the same some times they are different depending on the manufacturer.

Also, sorry about the tripple post, it kept giving me a message about the system being down or some thing like that.

TPAW
November 25, 2005, 08:13 PM
bgoldhunter says.....

It's been known to happen, although it is usually the brazing. Seems the ADL models are more prone, although Remington says it is the same action.

Thanks for the warning. Scratch Remington off my shopping list. What's next, the bolt shattering in your face?This is dangerous news guys, think about it! I'm too young for plastic surgery.....If! I survive!................Remington has some serious problems if this is what's happening!
Any of you guys who had this problem should notify Remington immediately! This could be deadly!!!!!!!!!

mathman
November 25, 2005, 08:43 PM
Well, I will send the gun in for repair and hopefully they will fix it for free...then I'm going to sell the damn thing. I don't think that I was ever in any kind of danger, but once the bolt handle broke off, I sure was done shooting that gun for the day...what if I was hunting? Anyway, safe to say that this has left a bad taste in my mouth and I will probably never buy a Remington 700 again. I'm not saying that they are POS and all of that, but I don't buy the same model of any gun that gives me problems.

I am wondering if this same shell was shot through a Winchester (or Savage) what the results might have been...would the Winchester (or Savage) have extracted the case? Please know that I am not trying to start a Win vs Rem vs Savage debate, just honest questions.

RugerNo3
November 25, 2005, 08:54 PM
In strict manufacturing specs, a 7.62 NATO is NOT a 308 Win. Primer and pressure specs are quite different. Many manufacturers caution not to use any MIL SPEC ammo in their sporting rifles. Cheap is as cheap does. This same applies to the 223 clones. I certainly wouldn't condemn Remington for your plight. Just chalk it up to experience and use the ammo your rifle is chambered for.-- 308 Winchester. It would not surprise me if the bolt lugs have been beating seats into the action over a steady diet of cheap milsurp.
A dismantling of the barrel from the action would verify this.;)

mathman
November 25, 2005, 09:28 PM
I appreciate the info...and I will definitely chalk this one up to experience. That said, I only fired about 10 rounds of mis surp ammo through the gun...ever...and all ten were fired today with the problem coming on the 10th round. As I said earlier, this was all Spanish Nato (Santa Barbara, 1988 production) which I have heard from several sources to be good, clean ammo. Anyway, I'm not going to bash Remington, but I won't buy another of their rifles. Now, as for the 870s, I've never had a problem with one and think that they are the finest pump shotguns in existence. ;)

mathman
November 25, 2005, 09:28 PM
Another triple post...server problems?

mathman
November 25, 2005, 09:29 PM
see above...

BusGunner007
November 26, 2005, 12:00 AM
A story about my Remington 700 POLICE in .308...
It was intended to be used with all kinds of ammo, never to be a 'safe queen' or 'sniper rifle' or 'showboat' or 'tackdriver'.
I wanted the gun for the classic 'SHTF' internet imaginary scenario, so I tried it with all kinds of ammo.

First, I cleaned the entire gun and shot Federal Gold Medal Match 168-gr. and it WAS a tackdriver!:D

Then I tried 'other' brands of Match ammo and it was still a tackdriver...

Then I started to feed it 'gun show' ammo, from various parts of the world, made who knows when...and it was still accurate enough, BUT ---
I had some ammo that kinda looked like crap, but I stuck with my plan.
It was a HOT day, and I think some of the ammo got a sunburn :rolleyes: .
Anyway, after a few rounds, one shot sounded 'different', and the bolt wouldn't open. I hit it with my hand a few times, and even considered pounding on the bolt-handle with various items on hand, but wisely decided to let the gun cool down.
A few minutes later, the bolt slid back nice and smooth. The case looked like all the others, so I think it was literally HOT ammunition ( see above ).
I shot some other 3rd World ammo and the gun just didn't like it. It looked dirty on the outside.
SO --- I cleaned the gun and started shooting GOOD ammunition in it.
I took the crappy looking stuff and tested it in my ArmaLite AR10 with the triple-hand-lapped, stainless steel, new profile Match Grade bbl. !!! :eek: :)

BusGunner007
November 26, 2005, 12:29 AM
I had to check the double/triple posting thing out before adding to my other post:

Don't give up on your Remington rifle. Get it fixed. Trust it. Make it submit.
It WILL work for you.

Just for fun, do check out that link:
http://www.hdrifle.com/Rem700BoltMod.html

I plan to eventually ( funds and timing permitting ) have that bolt modification done. It just looks like a cool thing to do, and it's one of those things that any particular design of firearm may 'need'.
Be it a 1911; Model 70 Winchester; Model 98 Mauser; or whatever.
The Remington 700 is a fine design, and some people have come up with 'hot-rodding' for it. Use the aftermarket for what it's worth and have the rifle you know made to your specs. It'll be worth it.
Good shooting!

mathman
November 26, 2005, 12:36 AM
When I got home, I gently tapped on the bolt and it opened...temperature was on my side this time.

kscoyotehunter
November 26, 2005, 12:57 AM
I just received a gun the other day from a individual who stated that the bolt handle had broken off his gun. After removing the trigger assembly and getting the casing unstuck out of his gun I relized what had happened. When I checked out the chamber it had a thin coat of rust on the inside casing the case to stick when fired. Now my question is can this handle be welded back on or does it need to go to factory to get fixed. I bought the gun from the kid for a 150.00 and that included a 150.00 Nikon scope with it. The kid need money so I offered him 150 not knowing it included a scope in the deal. So should I part out the gun or fix it. ADL wood stock gun like new.

MrGee
November 26, 2005, 01:03 AM
1st off the wrong ammo then you go bang'n it with a hammer no less.. if you got the bolt open it to the possion where the bot was to slide open...then at that point you should have slid a solid dwell into the case from the muzzel end an mashed it open that way.. i wouldn't be blaming Remingtons products in this case, fault may be wrong ammo related here .. wether you like Rem... or not .

BusGunner007
November 26, 2005, 01:14 AM
kscoyotehunter:

Send it to hdrifles and when you get it back --- shoot it!

Olaf
November 26, 2005, 01:59 AM
So the bolt HANDLE is the portion that has broken. That is NOT the way you put it in your first post. The bolt handle is a cast piece, but, if beating on it (I'm sorry..."tapping on it lightly") with a hammer....with or without a block of wood....the solder joint should have broken before the handle itself. It does sound to me as if you beat the cr*p out of it.

I'm still wondering as to the condition of the cartridge case, when extracted. As well, in what condition is the bolt itself (not the handle)....especially the locking lugs ? Was the cartridge case split or the head separated ? It is important to know what caused the bolt to become "stuck", in the first place. This did not just happen by itself - there very likely is a cartridge - related cause.

It now seems that what actually happened is that the rifle exhibited "sticky bolt" syndrome. That is, after firing, the bolt was VERY difficult to rotate to the unlocked position. If so, this is ALWAYS caused by the ammo. In fact, it is a clear indication of an over-pressure situation. Evidently, the cartridges, at least the last one of the 10 fired, were loaded too hot for the 700 action.

I see the bolt handle issue...and the stuck bolt issue as two different matters. I do NOT think that the bolt handle would have broken if you had extracted the stuck case from the rifle in the correct way....with a dowel, from the muzzle. IF the true problem was, in fact, that the bolt was very difficult to unlock....then breaking the bolt handle is YOUR fault. the hot-loaded cartridge is not your fault....but neither is it Remington's. But, it IS your responsibility. So, sorry, but I think that blaming Remington, when you very possibly abused the rifle, is dishonest at best. Is that what really happened ? Did you screw up and beat on the bolt out of frustration...until it broke....and now you are trying to blame Remington ???

Obviously, you do NOT owe anyone here any explanations...it's your rifle. But, you did ask for advice. Proper advice can't be given without accurate information.

DimitriS
November 26, 2005, 02:21 AM
This reminds me of this old thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186575 :p

Mathman remember what you told me it was a shooter! Sure it has failed you now but it can be fixed. So its all good atleast your not stuck waiting months to get Bretta/Sako/Tika to do something :)

Alot of guns have failed on people from what I see. I dont know a single person that owns a gun that hasnt complianed atleast once about how there gun failed them :). Guns fail people, the question is how many per 1,000 for example to be fair. After all if only 10 of one gun are made and the 9 failed it saying "9" doesnt seem as bad as "900" out of a million if you forget to mention the million ;)

Math if you get a picture I would love to see how it broke. :D

Dimitri

longtines
November 26, 2005, 03:33 AM
Well, I will send the gun in for repair and hopefully they will fix it for free...then I'm going to sell the damn thing. I don't think that I was ever in any kind of danger, but once the bolt handle broke off, I sure was done shooting that gun for the day...what if I was hunting? Anyway, safe to say that this has left a bad taste in my mouth and I will probably never buy a Remington 700 again. I'm not saying that they are POS and all of that, but I don't buy the same model of any gun that gives me problems.

I am wondering if this same shell was shot through a Winchester (or Savage) what the results might have been...would the Winchester (or Savage) have extracted the case? Please know that I am not trying to start a Win vs Rem vs Savage debate, just honest questions.


I don't understand. You are going to ditch a product that has been thoroughly tested and successfully used for decades because of a problem most likely caused by the ammo?

To me that is like getting a bad tank of gas in your Hummer and then refusing to buy another Hummer.

Picher
November 26, 2005, 06:26 AM
Sounds like your ammo got baked in the sun, creating abnormally high pressures and further thermally stretching the case. After the case and rifle cooled down, the bolt opened fairly easily.

Did you shoot your ten shots rapidly with the rifle in the sun? If so, the tight headspace of a fine rifle, combined with the vagaries of military ammo and heat probably caused the bolt to bind.

That's not to say that any investment cast parts can't be flawed, but if you couldn't open the bolt without rapping on it, there seems to be an ammo problem. I've never experienced that kind of problem in 50 years of shooting centerfires, mostly Remington and Savage. Of course, I stop shooting my rifles when it's uncomfortable to keep my hand on the rear of the barrel.

Picher

mathman
November 26, 2005, 07:01 AM
I assure you that I didn't beat on it...and the cartridge was fine (nothing out of the ordinary to me). I have slept now and have calmed down a bit...I stated earlier that I wasn't bashing Remington...but I am (was) upset. It was very cool yesterday morning in the high desert, so the ammo didn't bake in the sun...probably just an overcharged round.

Iowa Cornfed
November 26, 2005, 10:02 AM
If it was an "over charged round" then see Olaf's post #8 and THANK Remington!

Olaf
November 26, 2005, 10:53 AM
In any case, I am glad that you are OK, mathman. That is the matter of REAL importance here.

As you said, it probably was an overcharged round that caused the "sticky bolt". You say that you didn't "beat up" the bolt...to get it open - OK, I'll take your word for it. To be fair, it certainly IS possible that the bolt handle happened to be defective....because the solder joint should have let go, well before the handle simply broke. But, the handle (a cast part) may have had a hairline crack in ....commonly referred to as a casting occlusion. If the bolt functions fine....slides back and forth in the receiver, locks and unlocks without binding, etc.....then it APPEARS that there is no permanent damage to the receiver or locking lugs. I would examine the bolt body and the lugs VERY closely, though, to be sure. Perhaps Remington will repair the bolt handle (replace it, actually) on warranty. I hope that they do.

But, I wouldn't simply condemn the rifle. We milsurp Mauser people are very used to "sticky bolt". Fortunately, in the case of the Mausers, the bolt handle is welded on - as part of the bolt body - and very robust. That is a weakness in the Remington bolt design, to be sure. It is not necessarily true that milsurp (7.62 NATO) ammo should not be used in the 700. I've had two rifles, exactly like yours (700 ADL's -in .308)...and together, both have seen a couple of thousand rounds of milsurp ammo. I always used the Australian ADI ammo, or, failing that, the South African ammo. Never had one problem with either....or the rifles...and both were quite accurate in my rifles (with the Aussie having a slight edge). Probably, the majority of the Santa Barbara ammo is OK. The combination of case dimensions that are perhaps, at the maximum limit of the spec'd tolerances...and the over- hot load, are what directly caused this problem. I would also examine the cartridge case in question closely, because I believe that there must be some signs of over-pressure (if not incipient case failure...then a cratered primer, embossed bolt face (on the head of the case), etc.). As to what to do with the rest of the Santa Barbara ammo...I don't believe that I would shoot it, until you are sure that the remainder of rounds are safe (an obvious suggestion, which I know that you've already thought of). If you handload, or have a friend that does, you could pull some bullets, then weigh some of the charges. This will give a good idea of the variances, if enough charges are weighed. Reject the high and low extremes (especially the high)...and average the rest....then reload the cartridges. It might be wise to back down the charge weight by a grain or so. Then, you would have ammo that you could be pretty sure is safe to shoot in the rifle. Of course, if you are not a handloader, this suggestion is moot.

Another possibility, which is NOT scientific...and NOT entirely reliable... is to shake each cartridge, listening carefully for variantions in the sound and feel. This will ONLY work in a very quiet place....and IF you have a good ear and sensitive touch. It will NOT allow the charges to be matched - and certainly will NOT allow variations in charge weights of less than several grains to be detected, but it could aid in "spotting" any more over-loaded cartridges. The real danger is that, if the first few rounds you shake are over-loaded....then the standard for detecting overloaded ones will be off. Whatever you do, be VERY careful.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. Good luck with this....and be careful.

Olaf
November 26, 2005, 10:53 AM
What the bloody heck is wrong with the software (or hardware) on these forums ? Double posts...all over the place ! (??? !!!)

mathman
November 26, 2005, 12:32 PM
Thank you all for responding...I sure do like this forum. ;)

Chui
November 27, 2005, 12:55 PM
I've recently been sold on Winchester pre-'68 actions. They appear to be very robust and I like the controlled feed as well as the beefy extractor (which is part of the controlled feed, I know, I know). The more I look at Remington from an engineer's perspective, the more I'd change the action.

The bolt handle is probably a casting. If there were significant microvoids then it would be relatively easy to break as you describe, but I'm still surprised. Can you take photos of the two individual [broken, mating] surfaces?

mathman
November 27, 2005, 04:41 PM
OK, I don't know how to post a picture...help please.

mathman
November 27, 2005, 07:08 PM
Here is the picture...let me know what you think.

DimitriS
November 27, 2005, 07:18 PM
Mathman,

wow that was pretty badly broken :eek:

See if you know anyone that can weld it back ;) its in a non-critical area of the rifle so your not going to damage the heat treating I dont belive. :)

I think when you went to push it to get it to open you cracked the bolt on a fault or something. There is a good moral to this though. Had that be a M70 Winchester or the like that round that you shot might have over loaded and it might have been worse for you. The Push Feed design supports the round better giving you more safety. :)

If the bolt sezes up on a Push Feed on a Claw type bolt action the bolt will have probrobly gave up. Nevermind that the claw type handles the gas of a over charged case even worse :(

Godbless the Pushfeed system :D

Dimitri

mathman
November 27, 2005, 08:42 PM
I checked out a Savage today and I really liked it. I don't claim to know much about them, but it 'seemed' to be very well made and the extractor is beefier than the Remington's Extractor. I know some have said that they are ugly as sin, but frankly, the Remington ADL Synthetic that I own is no better looking.

I'll be looking at Savage, Winchester and Ruger for my next hunting rifle.

bgoldhunter
November 28, 2005, 12:23 AM
The picture didn't come up too clear for me, but looks like you can send it to hdrifles (link in my first post) and they can take care of it for you. I also agree that it was most likely caused by the ammo, a sticky bolt is a sure sign.

As far as a new rifle, well... I do prefer Winchesters myself. Don't get too hung up on the pre-64 stuff if you are just looking for a shooter, because it will cost you. The new rifles are either CRF or a CRPF hybrid, and I have had good luck with both.

The Savages I have been around have been great rifles, and my buddy's 12FVSS has me looking for one as well. The tupperware stock will need replacing IMO.

If you get a Ruger, set aside 70 bucks or so for a new trigger. The factory triggers are not adjustable and terrible. A Timney (and a B&C stock) has my MKII .270 driving tacks.

P-990
November 28, 2005, 03:20 AM
First off, good thing you are okay! That's what matters, broken gun or not.

Now, I will tell you that I have seen a Ruger 77 stick tight using mil-surp 7.62 ammo. Watched a guy come up to the line, take a coupe of shots, fiddle with the screws on the scope rings, then fire another shot, which did not seem unusual, and there was no lifting the bolt. Don't remember what kind of ammo he was shooting in it at the time, but it was definitely mil-surp 7.62, NOT commercial .308.

Me, personally, I'd refrain from using much 7.62 in a sporting .308, just as I don't use 5.56 in my .223 chambered AR. Well, I have, just enough to see that it was hot ammo, way hotter than my heavy match ammo which isn't putty-tat stuff either.

Good luck on your search for a different bolt action to replace your Remington. They should make your 700 good for you though.

AZ Jeff
November 28, 2005, 04:24 PM
Here is the picture...let me know what you think.
Here is my analysis of your photograph:

The M700 bolt body is a screw machined part from bar stock steel, to which is attached the separate piece that forms the bolt handle.

The bolt handle is an investment cast steel part, and is joined to the bolt body by furnace brazing or silver soldering (cannot tell by color alone here).

It it's obvious that the brazed joint has failed. What's also interesting is that the fractured portion of the bolt handle also has what appears to be two different grain structures. This implies that a crack existed in the bolt handle PRIOR to the final failure when you "tapped" on the bolt handle.

I think we have a case of a latent flaw in the bolt handle, coupled with a classic handle brazing failure.

Send it to Remington. They will fix it.

mathman
November 28, 2005, 04:28 PM
It's in the box ready to go...now I just have to find time to go to UPS. Thanks for all of the input.

Death from Afar
November 28, 2005, 06:56 PM
Can't believe I'm the first person to tell you this, but 7.62 NATO is .308

As noted they are not the same. They are the same CALIBER, but cases do differ between them. SAAMI issued a warning about this a few years ago. It would be interesting to see if the surplus ammo did cause the round to stsick in the chamber, as we do have to ask what caused it to stick in the first place. And that sounds definatly like an ammo fault.

I think there are four possibilities:

1/ More powder in the case, causing excess pressure and locking in the case:
2/ Less powder in the case. As the primer flame washed over the horizontal powder it all burnt at one causing a massive pressure spike. I have heard this is possible with a slow burning belted magnum, but never with a 7.62mm;
3/ The case was marginally overlong, "gripping" the projectile in the rifling and causing a pressure spike. Maybe possible?
4/ The rounds got too much heat. I would rule this out, unless they were sitting in the sun in a seriously hot day.

What happened when you pulled the trigger? louder bang and recoil?

You should thank Remington if any of these things happended....

mathman
November 28, 2005, 07:29 PM
Everything seemed normal when I pulled the trigger...go figure, I guess.

Olaf
November 29, 2005, 12:18 AM
After having a close look at the photo, I'm inclined to agree with AZJeff. I believe (also) that the bolt handle is/was defective. It should NOT have broken like this, IF you had hit it hard enough to break it. It seems likely that this was a bad casting....combined with the lower portion of the solder/ braze joint being bad. As long as the knob of the handle doesn't show hammer marks and (other) obvious signs of abuse, I think that Remington will take care of it, without any squabble.

DBR
November 29, 2005, 11:00 PM
Fix it. Sell it. Buy a Savage. You will be a happy man.

Picher
November 30, 2005, 06:33 AM
Yes, Remington will probably fix it, but will probably want the entire rifle to check before they do.

The brazing seems to have been pulled apart, instead of being detached from either part. Seems like a lot of force would be necessary to do that. Maybe a bit harder rap than you thought? Or, maybe the bolt got set back so hard from the bad round that the handle was weakened by being rapped by the rear of the bolt slot in the receiver when the rifle fired, maybe on several shots?

Incidentally, years ago, a friend had a 700 that wouldn't open with a live round in it. He brought it home and rapped it with a hammer to loosen it and rapped it and rapped it until the stock split. Then he noticed that the safety was on. That bolt held together well enough to have ruined the trigger/sear mechanism, and the rifle didn't go off!!!

Picher

Art Eatman
November 30, 2005, 09:39 AM
There's no way that using a piece of wood to get the bolt to open should have broken that bolt handle. Sure, maybe with a steel hammer, but that would have left deformation at the point of impact. To me, the fix is a freebie on Remington.

I'd contact Mr. Remington and see what his deal is, what the how-tos are.

Art

Handy
November 30, 2005, 02:20 PM
I'm very surprised at the responses on this thread.


The cartridge failure did not have anything to do with the bolt handle failing.

The PRIMARY reason for the adoption of bolt action rifles in the 19th and 20th centuries was its extraction strength in the case of bad ammo and dirty actions. Given the history of Rem 700 bolt handle failures, it is pretty clear that this former advantage is largely gone in this rifle - the bolt handle being an ornament that might as well be plastic. There are many situations that might cause hard extraction, this is just one. The only thing that should have been damaged was the casing - but a thin piece of brass overcame a steel bolt handle in this case.



As for .308 vs. 7.62 - I would suggest some of you should actually make some measurements for yourselves. The extremes 7.62 which might have been seen 40 years ago have nothing to do with modern 7.62, which is well within the variations seen in commercial and handloaded .308.

If anything, the slightly higher pressures in .308 present more of a danger to 7.62 military rifles. Yet companies adept at building military rifles, like HK, mark their products with either stamp - as if they were interchangeable. Guess why.

Death from Afar
November 30, 2005, 02:30 PM
YOu are quite right Handy, but the cartridge failure lead directly to the bolt handle breaking- it was the cause sine quo non to put it in latin. But for the bad ammo, the bolt handle would still be intact.

I would be highly concerned about any thing that lead to this situation occurring. If it happens once, it could happen again, so there must be a way of preventing it.

Handy
November 30, 2005, 02:48 PM
Death,

"Bad ammo" it was, but it did nothing to damage the rifle. The rifle damaged the rifle when someone used the leverage of the bolt handle as DESIGNED.


Shoot enough rounds and you will someday have one that jams up the rifle. Could be missized, overpressure, squib, crushed feeding or whatever. What is critically important is what happens AFTER you get that eventual failure. A good rifle extracts and fires the very next round. This rifle was not capable of such proper function. Tamara has related being able to kick open a jammed AR action despite an aluminum charging handle and an internal cam. This rifle's performance in light of that is simply embarrasing.

mathman
November 30, 2005, 03:09 PM
This is precisely the reason that I will not buy another Remington. I'm not going to bash Remington, but I certainly will not give them any more of my money. I mailed the gun today...hopefully they will fix it for free and then I will get rid of it.

This is also precisely the reason that I am now looking for a more durable rifle. It seems that Winchester makes a more durable rifle...and I don't really care much about accuracy...as long as it will kill something from 100-250 yards, that is good enough for me. I'll probably buy a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in either 308 or 30-06 very soon. I've also been considering a Savage, but I think that Winchesters are more robust...which is what I am looking for.

As a sidenote, accuracy doesn't mean $hit if it doesn't work.

Chui
November 30, 2005, 03:31 PM
Looks like a fatigue fracture [pre-existing crack which propagated from firing over time] of a poorly cast component. As someone AZ Jeff stated it looks like the bolt is brazed and that portion failed as well.

Buy Winchester Pre-'64. Hell, buy a Fabrique Nationale Special Purpose Rifle and be done with it.

mathman
December 22, 2005, 10:00 PM
I just received my rifle back from Remington today...and like many of you said, they fixed it for free...it looks like (although I am not sure) that they replaced the bolt with a new one. Just wanted to let you folks know.

I am still considering buying a Savage 10 FP in .308 instead of the LTR that Remington offers...Hmmmmm...decisions, decisions....

BusGunner007
December 23, 2005, 12:50 AM
Just get a club...it worked for the cavemen...:D

Seriously, go ahead and get rid of your Remington. You'll feel better for it --- for a while.
You'll always have the nagging doubt in your head, though, that MAYBE it wasn't such a bad firearm, and MAYBE that LTR would've been a good choice...

That is, after you buy another product from another mfg. and start to buy parts to make it 'right', or experience a failure of some kind with THAT particular brand of gun --- man, you'll turn into a gardner or something! Careful!;)
After that, you'll start to compare TROWELS, when the handle breaks off one of them!
Next thing you know, you'll be hugging TREES! OH, WOW, MAN! This could get SERIOUS!:eek:

WHOA! Or, you could be glad you got your rifle fixed and shoot the crap out of it, and get the LTR...:)

mathman
December 23, 2005, 09:54 AM
I'm gonna keep my Remington...I'm just looking for a 20" Bull Barrel .308 for shooting on the bench. I'm still considering the LTR, but for the money, the Savage is pretty hard to beat.

Fremmer
December 23, 2005, 10:09 AM
Glad to hear that Remington fixed it.

I would like to know what it was like dealing w/Remmie's customer service: were they polite, did you have to pay for shipping, etc? And, if I'm reading this correctly, it seems as though they also replaced the bolt itself. Did you observe a defect in the bolt and alert Remington about it? Also, it seems that it took Remington about 30 days to return the rifle to you -- correct?

Thanks for the info!

mathman
December 23, 2005, 10:45 AM
Actually, from the time that I sent the rifle in until the time I received it back was more like 24 days. I just put a note in with the rifle and they fixed it...no hassels...and yes, it does appear that the bolt was replaced, but I am not sure since the paper included with the gun when it returned did not detail exactly what was done.

raktrak
December 23, 2005, 11:01 AM
TPAW if you scratch REMINGTON from your list because it didn't hold up to a beating from somone that should have taken it to a gun smith or sent it to the factory, you are not being objective. I own quite a number of rifles and Remington's are some of the best. I will say if you beat somthing expect it to break. At what point in the design process do we allow for a hammer and 2x4?:confused: :confused: :confused:

mathman
December 23, 2005, 11:28 AM
Edited to say the following:

It appears that Remington put a new handle on the old bolt...it does not appear to be a new bolt after further inspection.

Joedady
December 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
Well here it is folks. Around twenty days latter after purchasing my remington model700 7mm mag and two scopes and eighty bucks in ammo I relived I bought 400 dollars worth of a boat anchor. The first two rounds I first shot jammed and the gun was oiled but I oildd it a lot more so it didnt jam as bad after every shot. So with that problem somewhat managed I began to sight in,my scope and in doing so the gun was shooting to the left or right and up and down at 100 yards. So what do I do I dump 250 on a nikon scope thinking that maybe its the scopd. No its the scrap metal of a gun I bought. I just sent it back to remington to be fixed and will get it back,just in time to miss hunting my 400 dollar gun this deer season. So if anyone wants my opion it is buy a savage or a winchester I hunt with those two for 6 years with no problem. After I compared them to my remington, the remington seemed to be manufactured a lot cheaper than winchester and savage. My 1915 british infeild is almost 100 years old and still hits 300 yard shots like a true worrior.

shurshot
December 28, 2011, 07:57 PM
Chevy, Ford, Lockheed Martin, Colt, Winchester, S&W, BMW, Toyota, and yes, even REMINGTON, all have the occassional defective products. It happens. If the ammo was over loaded with powder, as some previously pointed out, thank Remington that the 700's famous 3 rings of steel stopped any potential injury. I have no reservations about buying a new Remington 700. I'm looking at getting a new .270, and a "Made in the USA" Remington is at the top of my list. If you consider the sheer volume of model 700's that have been produced since 1962, over 5 MILLION (:eek:) and the number of previous models (721's and 722's), I'm guessing that Remington still has a better reliability / customer satisfaction than most other gun makers out there combined. My Grandfather's 1949 model 721 .270, after thousands of rounds and some pretty rough treatment along the way, is still going strong and taking deer with deadly accuracy... 62 years after it was bought. So yes, a newer version of Mr. Walker's rifle is in my future, with no reservations or 2nd thoughts... ;)

Joe Chicago
December 28, 2011, 08:57 PM
I bought a Remington Model Seven this Summer and it had head space issues which required that it go back to the factory. It sounds like your rifle, however, was cycling well with good quality factory ammo so you did not have a similar problem. The bolt handle should not have broken off though.

I ended up trading my Rem M7 toward a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2. It will be a while before I purchase another Remington product.

PawPaw
December 28, 2011, 09:07 PM
Necro Thread. Started in 2005.

trg42wraglefragle
December 28, 2011, 09:40 PM
Well everyone says to use the search don't they

Gunplummer
December 29, 2011, 12:58 AM
Desperate times call for desperate measures. I recall an m-14 jamming on me and I slammed the cocking handle against the side of a tree to eject a shell. I think you should be able to rough up a rifle if conditions call for it.

shurshot
December 29, 2011, 09:15 PM
I didn't notice this tread was that old...LOL! But it's a good one, nice to see everyone elses opinions and experiences. So I'm glad it was raised from the dead.

CTS
December 29, 2011, 09:59 PM
I recall an m-14 jamming on me and I slammed the cocking handle against the side of a tree to eject a shell. I think you should be able to rough up a rifle if conditions call for it.
Big difference, the M14 was designed as a battle rifle, expected to take abuse. M700 is a hunting rifle and in no way designed to withstand a 2x4 and a hammer to the bolt handle.

Gunplummer
December 29, 2011, 10:12 PM
That is why all my hunting bolt actions are former military guns.

Joe Chicago
December 29, 2011, 10:52 PM
Slappy, while it was originally designed as a hunting rifle, the Remington 700 has been a battle rifle for 40 odd years (USA M24 and USMC M40).

44 AMP
December 29, 2011, 11:09 PM
So if anyone wants my opion it is buy a savage or a winchester I hunt with those two for 6 years with no problem.

And I've got over 40 years on a Remington with no problems that were not my fault. SO?

Had a Savage that broke its extractor on the second box of ammo.
again, SO?

Everyone who makes mechanical things has defective parts got out the door from time to time. IT happens, get over it. Yes, its frustrating, but saying "I'll never get one of their products again" seems to me to be a childish over reaction.

If you got a bellyache from a bad burger, do you swear off beef? Or just burgers? OR just that resturant? Ok, its not the same thing...or is it?

Tim R
December 30, 2011, 06:30 AM
I'm gonna keep my Remington...I'm just looking for a 20" Bull Barrel .308 for shooting on the bench. I'm still considering the LTR, but for the money, the Savage is pretty hard to beat.

After you get some rounds down range, you won't believe just how good the LTR shoots. Don't cheap out on mounts or glass. You will be glad you did. The LTR I have any one can shoot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at a 100. With the Fed Gold Match if I do my part I can get it down to 1/4 MOA using a bi pod.

CTS
December 30, 2011, 08:54 AM
Slappy, while it was originally designed as a hunting rifle, the Remington 700 has been a battle rifle for 40 odd years (USA M24 and USMC M40).
Not exactly. It was used as a sniper rifle. Not quite the same thing. A battle rifle is something that can be used with a bayonet attached or can be used to beat your enemy to death if necessary. The M24 was never intended for this type use and it misses the point anyway. The OP took a peice of wood and a hammer and tried to beat the action open by beating on the cast iron bolt handle. It doesn't take a genius to figure out it was not designed to withstand that sort of abuse.

Art Eatman
December 30, 2011, 12:28 PM
Enough with the necrothreadia a'ready! :)