View Full Version : can a vortec be permanently attached to p/b ar?
June 13, 1999, 08:10 PM
Im under the impression that if a post ban rifle dosent have a flash hider on it, then it can not be attached......a friend who is a gunsmith has told me that as long as the vortec is permanently attached(silver solder, or pinned), then it can be......do you know were i can find the laws reguarding this....tks fubsy.
June 13, 1999, 09:50 PM
fubsy, the only advice I can give you is to talk to an inspector from your local BATF office. I wouldn't ask to speak to an agent because sometimes they are as confused about the laws as we are. Ask for an inspector. These are the men and women who go out daily to ensure that dealers and smiths are doing it right. Anytime I have a question that I cannot find a understandable answer for in the guidelines they give us thats who I call. George
June 13, 1999, 11:12 PM
I was hoping not to have to do that, but your right, its to much at stake not too.....I read on the ar15 board that it was not allowed as the ban covers reduction of flash signature and well as threading the barrel........I gonna call and check..tks..fubsy.
June 14, 1999, 12:52 AM
fubsy, I know that "Barrel Compensators" for un-threaded barrels are available for post-ban AR 15"s. They attach with four Allen head setscrews. I don't think the Vortex is available in this un-threaded configuration. (If you can find one, find two and I'll take one.) http://22.214.171.124/NonCGI/smile.gif
I don't believe that the BATF will approve the addition of the Vortex, in the threaded configuration, even if it is permanently attached to the firearm. I believe your local BATF Inspector, as George suggested, will be your best bet for the final word.
Please let us know how this shakes out for you. I'm sure I'm not the only person curious about this.
June 14, 1999, 09:16 AM
as you migt imagine this gets a fair amount of disscussion at ar15.com
here are some threads
http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000084.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000220.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000271.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000266.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000212.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000424.html http://www.ar15.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000323.html
June 22, 1999, 03:35 AM
fubsy - I just got the straight dope from Bushmaster. The BATF rules DO NOT allow a flash suppressor (i.e. Vortex, Phantom, et al) to be installed on a post-ban weapon. :(
May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.
[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited June 23, 1999).]
July 2, 1999, 04:39 PM
If you install a metal bar from the shoulder stock to the bottom of the pistol grip, thereby turning it into a thumbhole stock, you can then add a flash hider without violating the law (but consult an attorney first, as I'm no expert).
In any event, if the attachment you install does not ACTUALLY HIDE FLASH, then it is not a "flash hider" as defined by the statute/BATF. So a muzzle brake only (which typically exacerbate flash) is OK to install. Again the caveat is check with a lawyer to be sure.
July 2, 1999, 07:59 PM
The ATF does NOT buy into the notion of exchanging one EVIL feature for another!in regards of the AR and its design...
The addition of a thumbhole stock to a Post Ban rifle will not allow you to "exchange"
one feature for another, you cannot legaly add a "flash hider"to a post ban only ATF approved muzzle brakes. if you had a pre ban barrel assembly with [bayo lug,threads]you would have to remove the lug and then you could attach a threaded muzzle brake by "blind pinning and silver solder" which is drilling a hole through the brake and partway in the barrel then installing a roll pin followed by silver solder[WHEW!!]
Also for future reference, A "so called" Pre Ban lower/receiver" cannot be configured into a pre ban featured rifle! only post ban.
The Receiver must have been assembled into a rifle prior to Sept 94 by the manufacturer to legally qualify as a Pre Ban..
And yes I am a refugee from AR15.com
July 3, 1999, 12:51 AM
Yep gotta agree with you, no swapping of parts and no allowing a post ban to be configured like a preban, and no flash hiding devices.......what a crock......so now im looking for low flash signature powder and trying to figure out what amount i can use in a 16", 20" etc barrel and not have a huge fireball.....I dont know if its possible anyadvice....besides paying $1600 for a questionable preban at a gun show......tks fubsy.
July 3, 1999, 01:20 PM
I know it can be difficult to check serial numbers at a show, but I would not risk the penalties for getting a raw deal on one that was not assembled at the factory without documentation.
It is an easy task for the feds to check as it is for you! Case in point, I recently came across a "STEAL OF A DEAL" at a local pawn shop($700.00)!!!!! For a Pre ban Eagle M4c.
I THREW!! my money down as fast as i could get it out of my pocket and preceeded to email Eagle to check if it had left the factory as a rifle or receiver?" You know I was crossing my fingers!!" sure nuff! It was go!! If it had'nt I dont think I would of picked it up.
Sorry bout the off topic ;) but im still jazzed and had to tell ya all :)
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