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zot
April 6, 1999, 02:14 PM
has anyone ever made or seen such a rifle?
a light carbine 16" sport barreled .45 acp.
what kind of action could this be built on?
I've read of special OPs during world war 2
using a silenced 45 bolt gun, just curious

Daniel Watters
April 6, 1999, 03:47 PM
The most famous example is the De Lisle 'Silent Carbine', a heavily modified SMLE with an integral suppressor. It feed from a modified M1911 magazine. The De Lisle was used during World War II and in the Malayan 'Emergency'. Gunsmiths in South Africa and Great Britain are reportedly still producing unsuppressed versions. Some are even offering the use of alternative magazines.

Springfield Armory modified at least one Model 1903 Carbine to .45 ACP in 1921. The only picture can be seen in Hatcher's Notebook and LTC Wm. Brophy's The Springfield 1903 Rifles.

I vaguely remember seeing a photo of a Remington 700 modified to a suppressed .45 ACP carbine much along the lines of the De Lisle. I believe that the work had been done by suppressor-smith Phil Dater, but I can't be certain.

Any rifle with a bolt face that will accept .308 Win/.30-06 cases would be a candidate for a .45 ACP conversion. The problem would be converting the rifle's internal magazine, or adapting the rifle to accept a pistol type magazine. It certainly isn't a cost-effective procedure, unless the rifle action is of dubious strength for a rifle cartridge. For instance, the original De Lisles were reportedly built from condemned/rejected SMLE actions.

zot
April 6, 1999, 04:57 PM
Ishapore 2A would be a good rifle for this
conversion, sinces its chambered in .308,
cutting and welding I could figure out how to
have a 1911 mag well put in this rifle, but
any ideas where to get .45 barrel or would
this be a speciality item that would cost
a few hundred bucks?

James K
April 6, 1999, 06:03 PM
There aren't a lot of .45 rifle length barrels out there that would have proper steel and twist for .45 ACP. Shilen makes a 28" that should be OK, but the barrel alone, unthreaded and unchambered, runs around $200. Installation would be at least that again. Reboring and rerifling the original barrel is an option; most gunsmiths don't do it (too much investment in tooling for too few jobs) but some do. Maybe someone can come up with a name. In any case, I think you would be looking at big bucks just for a novelty.

P.S. Don't let a barrel less than 16" get on a rifle at any time - legal no-no.

fal308
April 7, 1999, 11:08 AM
Gun Parts sells 45 cal barrels. They have a kit to adapt a 1911 into a carbine with a 16-1/4" barrel and walnut board stock using a replacement main spring housing. They have several pages of barrels in their catalog.

I believe that the Spanish Destroyer also came in .45 ACP but not sure.

Actually you can make a rifle with a barrel less than 16" AFTER you get approval and a tax stamp from BATF for an SBR.

zot
April 7, 1999, 02:11 PM
okay heres a REAL cheap ass thought for a
carbine,I saw those 16 inch 1911 barrels,
and SOG sells old Enfield MK 3s for under $40.
if I where to grind off link lug on barrel
and headspace it with dummy round and weld barrel into receiver would that work? sort
of like De Lisles conversion, I'm not sure
what welding would do to barrel metal, the
whole thing would be pretty much low pressure
could reheat treat the whole mess after installing suppresor,,,?

James K
April 7, 1999, 07:16 PM
FAL308,
I confess I forgot about GPC for barrels. That .45 carbine thing is of questionable legality unless the owner has no other .45 pistol and no pistol barrel. Otherwise, he has the makings of a short barrel rifle.

AFIAK, the Destroyer was made only in 9mm BB.

Doesn't that manufacturer's tax stamp cost $1000?

Welding a .45 16" barrel somehow into an old No. 1 Mk III? Whew! I'm outta here.

Prichard
April 10, 1999, 11:19 AM
n

[This message has been edited by Prichard (edited February 07, 2000).]

zot
April 10, 1999, 09:11 PM
yeah I know its a wierd project, I had a .25
acp rifle made from a old Remington .22,
it cost $250, its a single shot and maybe
one of a kind, but I can reload for it and
it spits out 50 gr HPs very accurately, I
wonder why rifles aren't factory made in
calibers like this, Marlin makes .45 acp
camp carbine but if some company would make
a small 45 bolt action carbine I think it
would sell well, I know I saw a ww 2 carbine
bolt action with intergal suppressor, I think
that would be one fun gun for targets or
rabbits, YES laws would be followed, its not
like building a MAC-10 with suppresor, BATF
would have a cow if I applied for that.

Jim V
April 13, 1999, 02:18 PM
There is a company that is offering new De Lisle carbines, both suppressed and non-suppressed. Either are costly. I can not remember the company's name but they are a US firm.
There were several styles of De Lisle carbines, single shot and magazine fed. Some ejected the cases on the ground and some dropped them in the retained SMLE magazine (sans spring and follower.) The carbine was effective and the suppressor quiet. I would think that today's suppressors would be more effective than those used on the original.



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