Room clearing

[rapier144]

I saw the thread about room clearing and was wondering how many of you have actually cleared any house besides your own. In a real life situation.

[tanksoldier]

I've cleared rooms and buildings in Iraq. Even with a trained squad of MPs or infantry, and backup on heavy weapons outside, clearing a building is a dicey affair. (You don't want to know what it was like with half-trained tankers playing at being infantry...)

Doing it by yourself, half-awake in the dark? Not unless my wife's life depended on it.

[yorec]

Yep - most all of our LEO and former LEO members can answer thus...

[Blackwater OPS]

Have, its scary, worst part is doorways.

[H&K4Life]

Room clearing .... rgr that. It is an art form (as long as you are not #1 and around to talk about it). Soooo many techniques...so little time. However nobody does room clearing better than <....insert name/group/org here>. They are just that best at it!

[clt46910]

Yes, about once a month....when even I can't stand the mess....:D

[VirgilCaine]

I've participated in MOUT operations in Panama and during Desert Storm (bunkers near Khafji). No fun. It's an art, really...no, a science. It's something you drill and practice over and over and over. My memory of clearing buildings/rooms is a blur, but I do remember I didn't like it.

[ReconDoc242]

i've done it a lot, almost on a daily basis fir a few months both in Iraq and afghanistan. Cant say i've ever enjoyed it, specially being in the fatal funnel(doorways). Not fun.
-doc

[BlueTrain]

My son is a "half-trained tanker" (1st Armored Division) who will soon be on his way over there. They still do tank training but have been doing more just using Humvees, which he called scout training.

[Trapp]

Done it on a boat. Kinda hairy though, not much room......

[Bravo25]

I have to agree. It is a science, and it is not fun. You are at a disadvantage from the entry. The BG has a jump and already knows the building better than you do just because they have been in it longer. On the movies where they run around with constant on lights will get you killed, so you are mostly working in the dark. If you are lucking there is one set of switches that turn on every light in the building at once. If you are not lucking you are just hoping to not trip over something, or worse, get spotted first.

[Sarge]

Have done it a bunch, here in the US. Best approach I found was to become totally calm (conditions premitting) and then move through at a speed that didn't compromise attention to detail- but not too slow, either. You don't want the baddies to anticipate your arrival at their precise location. Always be looking for something to get behind if need be, use any available cover and lighting to your advantage.

Rookies occasionally did two things that drove me nuts. They would either have the gun up in front of their face where they couldn't see squat, or they would make so much noise that a deaf person could tell where they were, and which way they were moving.

There's a lot to be said for sending the dog in, first.

[fastbolt]

Yep, done my fair share of it for work ...

Depending on my activities at work, sometimes I can go days without doing it, and then sometimes I'll have to do it several times a day.

It's easier with a trained partner, and without the bad guy's pitbull yapping at your feet (or other appendages ;) ) ...

[smince]

Once. A long time ago.

Not in any hurry to do it again.

[Capt Charlie]

More times than I can remember. The worst ones are what we call "shotgun hallways", a long narrow hallway with no side doors and a closed door at the end. No cover and nowhere to go.

[noone]

the reason they call doors "vertical coffins" is anyone with a little bit of sense and a gun can smoke the first guy through.

[us.armysniper]

It dosen't even need to be a badguy on the other side of that door if they set it up right they can have the room vacant when, the team or whoever barges in, it hits the trip on the shotgun angled down at the entrance and them opening the door takes off their on head off. you can make all kinds of traps with expolsives but i am giving an example that a normal badguy could use, i haven't seen many situations where a guy barracaded in a room has c-4 and semtex at his disposal.

[stephen426]

I can clear a room easy. Give me a can of pork and beans and in less than five minutes... CLEAR!!! :eek: :D :p

Just kidding. I cleared the house the other day. The alarm panel had some weird error message so I did it just to be safe. It is different when it is a property you are familiar with. You know the full layout of the house including the furniture (either potential hiding places for the bad guy or cover for you). It was at night so I grabbed a 3-Cell Maglight and went room to room. It might even help if you use your blueprints to make a house clearing plan (just in case).

I stay further away from the doorway and sweep my light in an arc. Just remember that most interior walls don't offer squat when it comes to protection. If you hug the doorway, the bad guy can shoot your unexposed parts through the wall. Don't laugh but I kind of point the gun "gangster" style (up high pointing downwards) I feel there is less of a chance for a gun grab since you aren't sticking your arms out as far into the uncleared room. I also feel it is safer than keeping it close to my body in case the bad guy takes a shot at the gun.

One other thing to consider is letting your dog do the searching for you if you normally keep it outside. Their noses should be able to lead you right to a bad guy if he is hiding in your house. My dog would probably eat the bad guy and I wouldn't have to lift a finger. I love my dog but I'd rather she take a bullet and flush out the bad guy instead of me getting shot. If I'm out of commision, I can't protect anyone else in the house!

[Dwight55]

In my ignorance, and in my arrogance, as a much younger person with a firmer grip on total immortality,:D, I did such things.

(Ain't gonna happen no more!):p

May God bless,
Dwight

[Capt Charlie]

I love my dog but I'd rather she take a bullet and flush out the bad guy instead of me getting shot.
Not me; my dog's family! That's why the sticker on my back door reads "Forget the dog, beware of owner!" Anyone that shoots my dog is going to have a MUCH worse day than he would have otherwise.

[JohnKSa]

I've heard it said that clearing a house by yourself is called "looking for a bullet" by the experts and is not really feasible. i.e. will get you killed regardless of your skill level unless you get very, VERY lucky.

CaptCharlie,

Got no problem with that as long as you don't ever call the cops to clear your house. ;)

[Capt Charlie]

Got no problem with that as long as you don't ever call the cops to clear your house.
Hmm. I called me once for that, but could only get a busy signal and had to do it myself. ;) :D

[E-5 82nd AB]

Been there and done that {BTADT} it sucks but well worth it in the end when you have your team behind you depending on you and the guy that goes in with you. Shotguns are usually the rule here with a medium sized Buckshot load and a good .45 A.C.P. just in case too.

[Powderman]

I don't like doorways--but I like having to clear going UP stairs even less.

[rapier144]

been wondering when someone was going to mention stairways try going downstairs into a dark basement with open stairs that was fun

[Powderman]

been wondering when someone was going to mention stairways try going downstairs into a dark basement with open stairs that was fun

Dude, that is SO far past not fun.

That is major suckage.

The one time I had to do it, after hemming and hawing around it for a few seconds, I elected to take the first two stairs and jump the rest of the way. I figured that whoever was down there would not have a decent shot that way.

The person we were looking for was not down there, thank heavens. I keep wondering, in the back of my mind, what would have happened if he HAD been. :eek:

[greeneggsnham]

It absolutely sucks. However, we learned a tactic from the Mossad that allows you to look into a room without being seen. I'm sure many of you fellows know what I'm talking about. Many tactics. High low duck. Light rolls... dang, lost my light... hehe. Miss nothing, not even the bathroom cabinet. Found a feller under a kitchen sink once upon a time. Glad I got out of that bidness long ago. I'll leave it up to the brave and immortal. I came home one morning and my back door was open and the only thing I had was a damxxx pellet pistol. Don't ask, and I won't tell no lies. My next door neighbor was a local reserve officer and he covered me outside while I cleared the house with my Benjamin to the point that I could reach a hidden real fire belcher. All clear was never so sweet.

[Blackwater OPS]

Trick to avoiding the stairs is to start at the top. Just don't let go of the rope like I did once. Ouch.

[stephen426]

I'm sure it is different if you know there is someone holed up there for sure. If it was to serve a warrent and the person was considered armed and dangerous, different tactics would come into play. I think a flash bang/and or tear gas would get their attention. If you are clearing your own house, stairs are a real pain in the butt.

Going upstairs is a real biotch as well. Your head makes a great target for someone who is laying prone with good cover. I think it is like that scene in the movie The Rock where the seal team enters the shower room. The bad guys are shooting from a elevated position with cover with criss crossing fire.

Captain Charley,
Don't get me wrong. I love my dog as well. I love my wife more though. I don't think my dog could defend her as well as I could. Hell, they would probably get killed if I was taken out. Some people are so silly about their animals sometimes. My wife's aunt decided to ride out Hurricane Charley last year at their home in Bradenton. They had no shutters and it was catagory 4 storm. She said that she would rather die than to leave her cats. I say take the damn cats and go some place that allows them. Even if she couldn't take them, she was putting her sons' and her husband's lives in danger. If I were her husband, I would have shot the cats so she wouldn't have to worry about them. They are very fortunate the hurricane swung south. Like I said, I love my dog. I love my wife more and I plan to ba around a lot longer than my dog.

[Capt Charlie]

Stephen426
Understood, and a difficult choice no matter how you cut it. Let's just hope that it stays just theoretical for all of us.

Blackwater
Trick to avoiding the stairs is to start at the top. Just don't let go of the rope like I did once. Ouch.
It really gets hairy when you're jumaring up that length of Bluewater and aren't sure exactly what that rope's secured to at the top :eek: .

A tac team clearing a building is usually a piece of cake. Well trained, teamwork, good equipment, and it goes down very fast and very violent. When it's just you and a couple of patrol officers, things get dicey. I don't mind the ones where granny heard a bump in the night and you find the exterior of the home secure. The ones I hate are the "I came home & found my door kicked in", or worse yet, the "My ex broke in and he has a gun" scenario, and SRT isn't available. It's those that make me wish I was retired :( .

[BreacherUp!]

For LEOs, I would advise having an extendable pocket mirror that can be put on your duty belt, or within easy reach in your car. It is worth every cent when you have to stick your grape up into an attic, looking below stairs or even rooms. One thing to remember, if you're using a mirror, you need a cover man (b/c you're not in a good position to defend youself while you're manipulating the mirror). Also, once you "clear" that area with the mirror, you must keep looking at it until you partner visually checks it. Nothing like clearing an area with the mirror, pulling it back, and someone moving right into the area you just "cleared."
It was mentioned earlier that clearing a room by yourself is inviting a bullet. You are certainly at a disadvantage, a very dangerous one at that. But it can be done if you've done it quite a bit. Hoewever, the question that I think you need to ask yourself is, "What am I trying to accomplish and at what risk?" If you're investigating the noises coming from your living room, are the articles in that room worth losing your life over? If your children are in the next room, I think we all know what that answer will be, whether you're alone or not, you're going in. My .02

[Blackwater OPS]

It really gets hairy when you're jumaring up that length of Bluewater and aren't sure exactly what that rope's secured to at the top
Could not agree more, it gets even hairier(sp?) when some premature jacka$$ decides to toss a FB into a SMALL room with a window opening about a foot away from where you are climbing. Thank god this was during an exercise or I would have been KIA.

[hso]

Twice, once with a friend who insisted on going into his house without calling LE first. I'd had training for it, but he was so insistant that I couldn't let him go in by himself. Not something any reasonbly knowledgable person wants to do.